Captain Europe
Member
It's nonsense, Xenoblade X was huge and it wasn't cell shaded or foggy, and yet people here claim they went with that because of hardware limitations.
They went with this art style because it looks frickin good.
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Anyone else dislikes Nintendo's current love for washed out color schemes?
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It's nonsense, Xenoblade X was huge and it wasn't cell shaded or foggy, and yet people here claim they went with that because of hardware limitations.
They went with this art style because it looks frickin good.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Agree with this. I'm not a fan of BOTW's art style (or most Nintendo games), but love them for the gameplay anyway. That said, I surprised how much better BOTW looks in motion than in screens and movies. A large part of it is just getting to more colorful areas that aren't just green fields, getting to cool places at non-hazy times of day etc. It does have some gorgeous views even for someone that dislikes cartoony artstyles. It's a game that's just hard to do justice in screens and online videos.
On the other hand, while it is mentioned often I feel it gets too much of a pass on framerate. Especially docked on Switch many places are awful, with lost woods/Korok woods being he worst offenders for me in my 60+ hours so far. I couldn't wait to get out of there as it was a slide show. Maybe I've just gotten to sensitive to frame rates after getting a gaming PC and playing so many games at 60fps I guess, but man that shit is awful at times. To be fair, not just a Nintendo issue--Mass Effect: Andromeda on PS4 pro has some terrible framerates in the prologue mission I played through last night. Wish I'd gone PC instead of PS4 to play the MP with a friend. Though I'm not sure how much better performance would be on my GTX970 since the benchmark I glanced at had it avareaging 45ish frames.
In any case, it's definitely not a "Nintendo problem." It's just the way BOTW looks, be it design descisions, helping with performance or some combination there of that we'll never fully know. The back and forth is pretty pointless as some people are just going to prefer it looking one way or the other, some people hate Nintendo and will bash them at every turn and some love them and defend them endlessly etc. Fruitless debate in any case.
J
Jpop
Unconfirmed Member
The OP has never played the game.
Breath of the Wild is washed out now? What a bizarre comment, I think the art style is fantastic. The very subtle world haze helps objects feel visually consistent. Everything blends together effortlessly, while also making points of interest and foreground objects stand out. It's very well done visual design, more in line with considering the whole view as opposed to one object within it.
I don't see a love for washed out colors. I see them trying to hit a visual target and succeeding. If you are sad there is not more color saturation in BotW, I'm sorry.
I don't see a love for washed out colors. I see them trying to hit a visual target and succeeding. If you are sad there is not more color saturation in BotW, I'm sorry.
Soul of the Beast
Member
If people are upset that there isn't more color saturation in BOTW they can simply set the RGB range to full and turn up the saturation on their TV. (setting RGB range to full also makes every game looks better, I did it on my Switch and on my PS3/PS4. Game changer for me.)
But that would be just too easy for them, why not go online and make a thread about it? Might as well add some pictures of how the game could've look like with slighty higher contrast and increased saturation, which they could've easily done themselves via console/TV settings.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even own Nintendo hardware honestly.
I have a few opinions on this.
Looking at screenshots in isolation is a bad idea. Just like real life, you're eyes adjust to the color/lighting that you're seeing. This is why cameras have whitebalance settings. If it's cloudy out there, our eyes adjust, but the actual light is quite blue. When I talk about isolation, I'm talking about seeing screenshots on your computer screen, say posted to GAF. Your eyes are adjusted to your own computer workspace, but also the color temperature of your monitor, and the color corrected website/images generally posted on your screen.
The second part is, while you're playing a game, say BotW, it's an experience, one that your eyes are adjusting to over time. Once your eyes adjust to the washed, off color look, the visual designers can now surprise you with changes to color and contrast, stirring up more of an emotional response. It all sounds lame I guess, but I learned in film school that it's an actual tactic used by cinematographers, by exposing the audience to a constant sound or visual queue, eventually our minds filter it out, but when the time is right, by silencing that sound, or removing the visual oddity, the impact of a specific scene is felt more impactfully.
Having said all that, I do find that the balance of lighting and contrast to be a bit on the aggressive side lol... I think the game looks great, and when something bright and vibrant is on screen, I notice it, that's for sure (I'm only playing handheld), but I think the atomospheric haze is too linear, and I wish it was more exponential into the distance. But indeed, it does make the world look far bigger than it actually is, travel takes not too long to get to that "distant" mountain. But close up things should have a stronger roll off.
Looking at screenshots in isolation is a bad idea. Just like real life, you're eyes adjust to the color/lighting that you're seeing. This is why cameras have whitebalance settings. If it's cloudy out there, our eyes adjust, but the actual light is quite blue. When I talk about isolation, I'm talking about seeing screenshots on your computer screen, say posted to GAF. Your eyes are adjusted to your own computer workspace, but also the color temperature of your monitor, and the color corrected website/images generally posted on your screen.
The second part is, while you're playing a game, say BotW, it's an experience, one that your eyes are adjusting to over time. Once your eyes adjust to the washed, off color look, the visual designers can now surprise you with changes to color and contrast, stirring up more of an emotional response. It all sounds lame I guess, but I learned in film school that it's an actual tactic used by cinematographers, by exposing the audience to a constant sound or visual queue, eventually our minds filter it out, but when the time is right, by silencing that sound, or removing the visual oddity, the impact of a specific scene is felt more impactfully.
Having said all that, I do find that the balance of lighting and contrast to be a bit on the aggressive side lol... I think the game looks great, and when something bright and vibrant is on screen, I notice it, that's for sure (I'm only playing handheld), but I think the atomospheric haze is too linear, and I wish it was more exponential into the distance. But indeed, it does make the world look far bigger than it actually is, travel takes not too long to get to that "distant" mountain. But close up things should have a stronger roll off.
OP has said in other posts that he doesn't own a Wii U or Switch. Someone on the second or third page called him out on his negative Nintendo comments in other threads.
The game definitely has soft colors but that is the tone of the game. Personally I love it.
I theorize that those who don't like the "haze" are also not fans of the minimalistic music in the game. Just a thought.
Finally, the idea that this is constant throughout Nintendo games is one that I just don't see. Like at all.
I theorize that those who don't like the "haze" are also not fans of the minimalistic music in the game. Just a thought.
Finally, the idea that this is constant throughout Nintendo games is one that I just don't see. Like at all.
Taliban Stan
Member
I imagine Picasso painting and random dude walks by his window like, "Yo, I don't know if people been gassin you or what, but that looks fake as hell dude."
asker
Member
You're acting like it's only occasionally that the haze looks like this.
To get a general idea of how people are experiencing this game, I went into nine of the biggest Twitch streams and took a snapshot.
Can we at least stop pretending like the people who complain about the haze are nitpicky anti-Nintendo-bandwagon coachmen. It is clearly prevalent enough to be an issue if you don't like the look of it.
Edit: Spoilered the image just in case.
Idk. I can see it with BotW, even if I don't agree fully. Can't really see it with their titles in general, which is the claim in the OP.You're acting like it's only occasionally that the haze looks like this.
To get a general idea of how people are experiencing this game, I went into nine of the biggest Twitch streams and took a snapshot.
I'd say the haze is overbearing in at least half of these. Perhaps all these streamers just have faulty RGB settings? If it's that common then perhaps that should've been the benchmark?
Can we at least stop pretending like the people who complain about the haze are nitpicky anti-Nintendo-bandwagon coachmen. It is clearly prevalent enough to be an issue if you don't like the look of it.
Edit: Spoilered the image just in case.
Astral Dog
Member
No
asker
Member
Yes, the original claim is unfounded. I'm only talking about BotW, which by itself brought up a lot of contention in this thread.
This is how Zelda looks on my TV:
I love my Samsung.
dude, the game should not be looking like that at all :/
Fair enough if that's how you prefer it though.
CrazyHorse
Junior Member
No. The BotW is washed out.
The music itself isn't bad in the same way the haze gets in the way and drags down the overall experience for me, but if you ask me if I prefer stuff like Gerudo Valley; absolutely.
I also think that Super Mario 3D World, especially Captain Toad, has some kind of bloom effect or whatever that gives off a 'glowy' appearance. It ruins what would otherwise be a perfect visual style.
I wish the game looked like the image below all the time, i.e. with minimal glowy-ness. I know it looks plasticky and lifeless, but that's how I like it: clean and unfiltered. It's a shame.
whatever6352
Member
I do agree that BoTW looks hazy and washed out at times, but all the other Nintendo games look beautiful.
Good post, this part especially rings true when it comes to the experience of playing BotW, both in terms of visual design and the audio.
I would disagree, I don't think the haze is overbearing in most of those shots.
And for the record I absolutely think it's a valid opinion to think the game is a bit too washed out/hazy, nothing anti-nintendo about it (except perhaps the OP who thinks it's a widespread Nintendo thing). But the game clearly has many different environments and time-of-day along with weather patterns can drastically change the look of the game. I think it accomplishes it's look amazingly well and most of the screenshots really don't do justice to what the game looks like in motion. At worst, you may need to calibrate your TV a bit to manually increase the contrast/saturation if you really have a problem with the look.
Dat pop.This is how Zelda looks on my TV:
I love my Samsung.
aggienader
Member
Washed out? Lol OP.
Colors pop in bright sunny days. I love it this way, I'm a Sega colors lover, even in my Zelda.
All of Nintendo's games lately? Hell no, most of them are really colorful and put contrasting colors to good use (moreso than most other gamedevelopers). Splatoon, Mario 3D world, Color Splash (name says it), Mario Oddysee etc. all look vibrant.
Zelda however? A huge part of the screens and video's I have seen on gaf/yt do seem washed out and foggy. I love me some Ghibli and the likes and get what they were going for, but in my opinion on a technical level they did not pull it off graphically.
Zelda however? A huge part of the screens and video's I have seen on gaf/yt do seem washed out and foggy. I love me some Ghibli and the likes and get what they were going for, but in my opinion on a technical level they did not pull it off graphically.
ViolentP
Member
Weather has an effect yes, but it is not a big reason for the haziness of the palette. It's simply the direction Nintendo went with and it is pretty evident.
I think botw looks great, the hazyness depends on the weather and sunlight
I mean, I totally get why people dig the graphics/style of this game, but everything in the distance from Link does look hazy in all those screens to me. I get why the effect is there, but I don't really like it and think it is overdone if it is not tied to a specific wheather condition.
pinkurocket
Member
I have a love for pastels and I enjoy the colors that the game can show at times. Though they can be bright as well, the often muted/soft palette also speaks to me.
Prince of Space
Banned
Please stop making Zelda look so ugly, guys. You're only proving Nintendo's design decisions right.
BigEmil
Junior Member
Great postThe game seems to have an intentionally flat, washed-out look a lot of the time, as it changes so much with time of day and weather.
I agree that they probably went too far with it, as my first impression of the game had me wondering if I had the video levels set incorrectly since it had been so long since I turned on my Wii U. (they were not)
It's more of a contrast issue than a color issue though, and I think that the look can be improved without having to completely crank up the saturation or make the image really dark.
Using an example image from earlier in this topic:
Original:
Subtle adjustment:
Less-subtle. (probably went too far with it - I only spent a few seconds on these examples):
Those still convey the same "look" to me, without feeling washed-out.
Zelda is the first game I've had to play with some of my TV's enhancements switched on.
The framerate is so bad that I need to have the motion smoothing options turned on, and the TV's "black corrector" to prevent things from looking completely washed out. (without completely sacrificing the intended look)
Well he sounds very pleased with himself for someone that appears to have things set incorrectly, as his examples of the "correct" levels appear to be clipping.
Just look at this comparison shot:
The highlights are clipped, causing the grass to turn into a solid mass of neon green.
Limited output + Limited capture should look virtually identical to Full output + Full capture, which is clearly not the case in his video.
The only difference between the two is that you have the potential for smoother gradation with a full range output. (256 levels vs 220 levels)
Image brightness/contrast should not be changing. If it is, you have something wrong in your setup.
To me, it looks like he's mixed up the labels on his images. The pair in the middle are most likely the correct captures where the levels match.
That one on the right looks like Full range output + Limited range capture.
The image linked from the Square-Enix site is encoded in CMYK.
If your browser doesn't do proper color management, color will look ridiculous.
Here's the image as it looks in Chrome:
And here it is with a proper sRGB conversion - as it should appear in a properly color managed browser:
I'm guessing they were using Chrome when they posted that image.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
I don't think that Zelda is a good predictor of how the rest of Nintendo games will look. No other Nintendo game looks like Wind Waker, nor any other Nintendo game has the Twilight Princess bloom and palette.
Adam_Vania
Banned
this thread is extra hilarious cos the first thing i noticed when playing BOTW was they really cranked the green saturation on the grass!
Chezzymann
Member
Zelda looks different depending on weather and time of day. It has super vibrant colors sometimes.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
In case you missed it:
-OP doesn't like Nintendo
-OP hasn't even played the game
-OP has a god awful aesthetic sensibility where he thinks increasing contrast and crushing blacks is good idea.
-OP makes thread where he posts cherry picked screenshots from Google search one of which is a screencap from a Youtube video.
-OP gets super defensive when called out on any of this saying "he knows the game"
-Somehow the thread is still up despite the OP spreading misinformation and becoming more Nintendo bashing troll bait.
-OP doesn't like Nintendo
-OP hasn't even played the game
-OP has a god awful aesthetic sensibility where he thinks increasing contrast and crushing blacks is good idea.
-OP makes thread where he posts cherry picked screenshots from Google search one of which is a screencap from a Youtube video.
-OP gets super defensive when called out on any of this saying "he knows the game"
-Somehow the thread is still up despite the OP spreading misinformation and becoming more Nintendo bashing troll bait.
And chromatic abbreviation
I thought the expression "make the colors pop" was a running joke with HD media enthusiasts? Doesn't it signify that the person who said it is someone who probably sets their display to the Super Ultra Vivid setting and thinks it looks awesome? The OP uses that expression, which immediately made me think this was a troll effort. I've never heard someone who is passionate about color display ever use that expression seriously, and not as a joke.
Jaded Alyx
Member
He said, based on images posted here, that it looks 'okay', while Arms "needs work". Odyssey is "washed out".
But "all 1st party Nintendo output" though..
The thing with this game is no matter what screens are not gonna do it justice. Just cause nothing is static. There's alot of things moving and changing dynamically that are hard for pics to convey.for example there are moments when in snowy areas where visibility is zero then the sun finally comes out at you can see for miles. Sometimes you can see a shrine of to the distance other times that same shrine won't be visible. In motion it looks fantastic.
This is how Zelda looks on my TV:
I love my Samsung.
Not to endorse this image but I think it makes a clear poin that any minor adjustments done to screenshots can be done through TV menus to a much greater extent.
From the screenshot thread:
Also: I would never have thought, that NINTENDO out of all developers would be accused of not using enough colors in their games, just lol.
portable mode switch
Also: I would never have thought, that NINTENDO out of all developers would be accused of not using enough colors in their games, just lol.