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[Fantastical]

I think setting changes make a lot more of an impact than gameplay changes because it's much easier to look at a game and say "this is different". If this Zelda game played the same as Twilight Princess, but took place in space and featured a Link that looked slightly different, I think that a lot more people would be excited.

People that are saying this is just another rehash, or they are ready for something new are just ignorant of the game because from a glance it does look very similar. It's the things that you can't see immediately that will really make this game special.

 

[Dice]

Wait, so now 90s era comic-book art is dudebro?

Is there anything that was ever popular that DOESN'T count as 'dudebro?'

Dumbest phrase ever.

Did you miss the XTREME 90s COMICS thread?

The history of dudebro:

Original dudebro: 80s action movies
Second major form: 90s comics
Evolution: 2000-gen videogames (gets name "dudebro" from GAF)

The single existing branch-off use of the term: X-games and Jersey Shore "duuude, bro" type of personification, which sometimes get into videogames in an annoying way, like in DiRT 2. Instead of dudebro this can also be called douchebag.

 

[Spire]

I have zero interest in it. I forget it's even coming out until I see it in a thread title here on GAF.

 

[AceBandage]

Hard to build a boner when the game looks like a last gen game

...

This thread just keeps getting worse and worse.

First someone says that all third person games are the same genre, then someone says that you have to waggle your arm hundreds of times a minute, and now this.

 

[Trevelyon]

Nope, just can't bing myself to care, too much ridiculously good stuff this holiday and Twilight Princess left me very, very cold on Zelda.

My 12 year old self would probably spit in my eye for speaking such blamsephy, but I guess with a lot of Nintendo stuff these days it just doesn't hold that same 'must have more anything in this world' feel.

 

[Pachterballs]

...

This thread just keeps getting worse and worse.

First someone says that all third person games are the same genre, then someone says that you have to waggle your arm hundreds of times a minute, and now this.

well compared to what you get on pc/x360/ps3, I'd find his statement hard to disagree with.

The fact that Nintendo even showcased a wiiU (current gen styled) LOZ, makes his statement even more valid.

 

[WillyFive]

...

This thread just keeps getting worse and worse.

First someone says that all third person games are the same genre, then someone says that you have to waggle your arm hundreds of times a minute, and now this.

Calm down, Ace.

It is kinda unnerving reading this on NeoGAF of all places, but dumb misinformation spreads everywhere, especially if they are negative.

Besides, it's not like Nintendo is trying to prove them wrong. They're not.

 

[AceBandage]

well compared to what you get on pc/x360/ps3, I'd find his statement hard to disagree with.

The fact that Nintendo even showcased a wiiU (current gen styled) LOZ, makes his statement even more valid.

It may not be HD, but it's far from ugly so what does it matter?
I mean... seriously...

 

[qizah]

Hard to build a boner when the game looks like a last gen game

I'd much rather see an improvement in the design/structure of the series than a graphical upgrade. Granted, an HD Zelda game would look fantastic, but that's not to say that Skyward Sword doesn't look great visually. The impressionist inspired art style came together nicely and looks like an appropriate blend of Wind Waker and Twilight Princesses' art styles.

Skyward Sword seems to improve on a lot of things (at least, based on what we know). The combat, exploration, boring parts between dungeons, puzzles, etc all seem improved over the last games. They also got rid of small, annoying things like always finding rupee's in treasure chests and being like "oh man, more rupees?"

 

[Persona7]

It may not be HD, but it's far from ugly so what does it matter?
I mean... seriously...

Subjective thoughts. Some people prefer graphics over everything else.

I can see how someone would think that SS is ugly.


Look at how nintendo used CG to advertise OOT3D.

 

[Anth0ny]

It really sucks how overlooked/underrated Majora's Mask was.

After Ocarina of Time, I'm pretty sure no one was saying "I'm sick of the Zelda formula blahblahblah". Yet, Nintendo drops MM on us, probably the least traditional Zelda of all time. It is knocked for it's (brilliant) 3 day system.

Wind Waker and (especially) Twilight Princess are much more similar to Ocarina of Time. I feel like if they released OOT, then TP, then WW and then MM, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

I don't expect Skyward Sword to be as radically different from the traditional Zelda formula as Majora's Mask was, but as long as they aren't as conservative as Twilight Princess, I'm happy. From the looks of it, they won't be. And hence, this is my most hyped game of the year.

 

[RockmanWhore]

I'm not extremely hyped for the game itself, but I like motion controls when they're done right. I had a blast with games like Red Steel 2, Tumble, Metroid Prime 3, Killzone 3, etc... And the fact that the Wii U will have a more traditional controller, and that devs don't seem to bother developing Move games any more kinda depress me. I was pretty hyped for Sorcery last E3, but the game is nowhere to be seen, and I fear it's been or will be canceled, Twilight Princess seems like the last game that can turn the steam, if it's a huge critical and commercial success, maybe we'll see more motion controlled games that aren't shallow party games or fitness games in the future.

I hate how motion controls have become synonymous or casual shit these days, those device could bring a lot to traditional gaming, and let's be honest a few seconds, we've seen everything that traditional controllers can do, and it's getting old, I want some new stuff I remember when I was a kid in the 80's and 90's, every new gen there was a mind blowing new stuff on my controllers, that changed the way games where played, but they stopped almost stopped evolving with the OG Dual Shock. Even when you look at the Wii classic controller and the 360 controller, and how they evolved compared to their predecessor (GC and Xbox 1 controllers), they've just become closer to the Dual Shock. Nintendo really dropped the ball with the original Wiimote and its horrible motion detection, now everybody thinks that motion controls = unreliable waggle shit, but Move and the Wii Motion Plus are reliable, but there hasn't been a killer app yet, Skyward Sword has the potential to be that game.

 

[Dice]

Then what are the 2D Zelda games?

Ok, but by the description you posted it seems God of war and pokemon are similar and fit in the same genre while Super Metroid and Metroid Prime don't. Going by the definition that's exactly what's being described here.

They are called 2D action/adventure games. Is that so hard to figure out? You get upset at me sounding patronizing but you are the one who seems like it to me. It's like you are purposely trying to not see what I am talking about in terms of game mechanics. Orayn understood just fine, so why don't you?

Maybe it is because I play in the vast ocean of PC gaming, but to me genres are FIRST split by interaction mechanics and THEN by world design and activities performed. The former is the primary genre categorization and many design elements can be shared among them, the latter is subgenre where the particular defining elements are, which cannot be shared without shifting the intent of focus the game wants to have.

 

[MYE]

Like Nintendo you mean? They're pretty much doing a 180 with the WiiU right now.

Wii remotes are still a big part of the Wii U. So no.
They ARE doing a 180 on the way its being marketed though, which is having more of an impact than i thought it would with the so called "hardcore crowd". Marketing is indeed a powerfull tool, and many DO have to be told what they want to buy through it.

The only reason why the statement posted above pops up again and again is that it is and it will always be tiresome to point at your screen or waggle throughout a longer gaming session. Your arms get tired, you put away the controller just to rest - and that's not something that should be your goal as a designer.

The thing is that it doesnt get tiresome, you dont need to flail to have your movement detected and you dont stretch your arm out for hours. Thats the easiest way to spot someone who is not informed and experienced enough with Wii controls.

Hand wrist movement requires very little effort. You point at the screen with most of your arm resting in your leg or couch and the controller detects subtle directional swipes. There is no need to swing it around the room like a swordsman. This is basic Wii 101 stuff.

No More Heroes uses it. Madworld uses it. Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy games use it on every enemy, etc, etc...
Do you get tired playing these games?

I must be stronger than i thought, then.

But to use it on every single little mob in the game? No, I'd really hate that - and so do many, many other people here for a very good reason. It sucks.

What about the many, many others more that disagree?
You're talking about personal deslikes now. Not objective thoughts on supposedly "bad design".

 

[Pachterballs]

It may not be HD, but it's far from ugly so what does it matter?
I mean... seriously...

lovely salsa didn't use the word ugly

neither did I.

 

[Hazanko]

I wasn't going to buy it at first. I got sick of the Zelda franchise when I played Twilight Princess. I didn't find the game bad but I was just really bored with it. I think that game has put a few people off the franchise. It was only after looking at the new things Skyward Sword is doing that I got more interested in it again. I'm still on the fence with it but I think I'll probably buy it now.

 

[Varna]

I'm looking forward to it but I do keep forgetting that this game exist.

I'm not one of those people who wants the gameplay to "evolve." OoT 3DS is still a fantastic game despite being over a decade old and I'm hooked all over again. All I really want is for them to make the combat more engaging and worthwhile. Seems like the new controls will make it more challenging (assuming there is a heavy emphasis on area damage) and the upgradable equipment will provide some incentive to fight over just running away (I ran for almost every single enemy in TP).

 

[StuBurns]

I'm surprised to see so many posts mention TP as something of a lowlight to them, I mentioned in a thread the other day that it was well liked and people said I was wrong. I've seemingly missed all the negativity, I thought everyone loved it.

 

[Acerac]

Wow, I had no idea that they were making such AWESOME changes! I wasn't even considering this game, but now I can't wait!

Nonlinearity! It finally returns!

 

[Brera]

Hard to build a boner when the game looks like a last gen game

I'll have to defend it here.

the graphics look pretty good! Love the cel shading.

 

[ASIS]

They are called 2D action/adventure games. Is that so hard to figure out? You get upset at me sounding patronizing but you are the one who seems like it to me. It's like you are purposely trying to not see what I am talking about in terms of game mechanics. Orayn understood just fine, so why don't you?

Maybe it is because I play in the vast ocean of PC gaming, but to me genres are FIRST split by interaction mechanics and THEN by world design and activities performed. The former is the primary genre categorization and many design elements can be shared among them, the latter is subgenre where the particular defining elements are, which cannot be shared without shifting the intent of focus the game wants to have.

If I sounded patronizing I deeply apologize as that was not my intention. If my responses seemed "smart ass" then trust me I just wanted to get my point across, nothing more.

Anyway I'm going to sleep now and I will reply to this tomorrow, I just wanted to get this out of the way first.

 

[Brera]

...

This thread just keeps getting worse and worse.

First someone says that all third person games are the same genre, then someone says that you have to waggle your arm hundreds of times a minute, and now this.

I don't recall saying a hundred times a minute but 10'000 times by the end of the game? I'll have arms like this by the end...

Motion Control (aka "waggle") has no place in epics.

 

[ASIS]

I'll have to defend it here.

the graphics look pretty good! Love the cel shading.

Are you for or against or just trolling? Seriously I lost track :/

 

[Boney]

I like Zelda. Especially 2d Zelda.

 

[MYE]

Are you for or against or just trolling? Seriously I lost track :/

You seriosuly need to ask. He's been clear enough.

 

[BY2K]

Are you for or against or just trolling? Seriously I lost track :/

He turned to "hyped" after a while.

 

[ASIS]

You seriosuly need to ask. He's been clear enough.

He was talking shit about this game, then he says he's going to buy it, and now he's actually defending it?

I honestly don't know the guy's stance anymore and I just want a clear answer that's all.

 

[StuBurns]

He was talking shit about this game, then he says he's going to buy it, and now he's actually defending it?

I honestly don't know the guy's stance anymore and I just want a clear answer that's all.

People aren't so black and white, you can like and dislike various aspects of a game, in fact, normal people do.

 

[thomasmahler]

The thing is that it doesnt get tiresome, you dont need to flail to have your movement detected and you dont stretch your arm out for hours. Thats the easiest way to spot someone who is not informed and experienced enough with Wii controls.

Poor assumptions, anyone?

I spent a ton of time with my Wii. But I'm still not comfortable with how Motion Controls are being implemented most of the time. A good example:

When I played Super Mario Bros Wii with my two brothers, everybody really disliked the whole shaking. Then I showed them what it looks like on Dolphin and what it feels like with an Xbox Controller where the shake is emulated through the press of a button - and we played through the entire game that way. Everyone preferred the direct control, there's absolutely nothing the player gains from being forced to shake his Wiimote around in this case. Just one example.

And my brothers aren't even hardcore gamers. They're just normal folks that like games and play them occasionally. Sometimes adding more things to something doesn't make it better, it just makes it more convoluted.

Hand wrist movement requires very little effort. You point at the screen with most of your arm resting in your leg or couch and the controller detects subtle directional swipes. There is no need to swing it around the room like a swordsman. This is basic Wii 101 stuff.

No More Heroes uses it. Madworld uses it. Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy games use it on every enemy, etc, etc...
Do you get tired playing these games?

Yes on every single game you mentioned. And in every game it felt like a really tacked-on thing. Collecting the little star bits by pointing at them is a completely ridiculous mechanic in Mario Galaxy, which is one of the games that's usually getting praise for the way it handles controls. Twilight Princess is out of question, I absolutely preferred playing the GameCube version, because, yeah, the Wiimote stuff was simply tacked on.

And don't get me wrong, I really like the Wiimote and the Nunchuck, I love that they broke up the controller and that you can have your hands rested without holding something right in your lap or in front of you - but this whole 'Shit guys, we need to figure out how we can implement the motion controls!' peer pressure is ridiculous.

It's also a matter of using motion controls in a unique way. Use it on a boss in a really smart, imaginative way and I'm more than fine with it. But use it for every single enemy in every single location and you can be sure I'll probably pass 1-2 hours in.

What about the many, many others more that disagree?
You're talking about personal deslikes now. Not objective thoughts on supposedly "bad design".

For me it's bad design when you encourage the player to put down the controller. Forcing the player to be inactive in an interactive medium is not the way to go. Making sure the player gets tired after an hour of playing your game will accomplish just that.

 

[Brera]

Are you for or against or just trolling? Seriously I lost track :/

I'm for the game as a whole but I'm not happy with the focus on motion controls. I bought the superior GC version of TP to avoid that shit. I'm just sad there is no option this time round.

 

[ASIS]

People aren't so black and white, you can like and dislike various aspect of a game, in fact, normal people do.

Actually you are correct...Yeah I really need some rest..

 

[Boney]

I fucking loved loved loved loved the shaking in NSMBWii. Felt just so good and natural that the habit stuck with me for older mario games.

 

[Brera]

I fucking loved loved loved loved the shaking in NSMBWii. Felt just so good and natural that the habit stuck with me for older mario games.

Now you must be trolling?

Don't get me started on NSWBWii.

I gave up on it cos of Waggle.

 

[Duke Togo]

Tough to get hyped over raw garbage. Of course, this is just my opinion based on what i've seen so far.

 

[Jokeropia]

^
Sounds like you have pretty shit taste.

For me it's bad design when you encourage the player to put down the controller. Forcing the player to be inactive in an interactive medium is not the way to go.

Motion control does not force the player to be inactive. I can play all the games you've mentioned for hours at end without having problems.

 

[AceBandage]

Tough to get hyped over raw garbage. Of course, this is just my opinion based on what i've seen so far.

How is it raw garbage, exactly?

 

[thomasmahler]

I fucking loved loved loved loved the shaking in NSMBWii. Felt just so good and natural that the habit stuck with me for older mario games.

Honest to god, you're the first person I've ever heard saying that. To me, NSMBWii and DKCR are great examples of how you just tack on shaking where shaking isn't needed.

It just needs to work for the context, like:

If in a game an enemy has me in his clutches and I have to free myself, shaking off the enemy through shaking the controller makes sense and can feel better than just button-mashing one of the face buttons.

But using it for something like jumping or rolling? Hells no.

 

[Thoraxes]

Tough to get hyped over raw garbage. Of course, this is just my opinion based on what i've seen so far.

Do you even like video games? Or rather, can you elaborate more on what makes it raw garbage?

 

[BurntPork]

I don't recall saying a hundred times a minute but 10'000 times by the end of the game? I'll have arms like this by the end...

Motion Control (aka "waggle") has no place in epics.

The shark just jumped the thread(/Fonz).

 

[Persona7]

How is it raw garbage, exactly?

How do you know it isn't raw garbage if you have not played it?

 

[Alrus]

Honest to god, you're the first person I've ever heard saying that. To me, NSMBWii and DKCR are great examples of how you just tack on shaking where shaking isn't needed.

It just needs to work for the context, like:

If in a game an enemy has me in his clutches and I have to free myself, shaking off the enemy through shaking the controller makes sense and can feel better than just button-mashing one of the face buttons.

But using it for something like jumping or rolling? Hells no.

I had zero problem with the shaking in NSMBWii, it felt quite natural and all the people I've played with never expressed any discomfort with it. DKCR could have done away with the shake to roll mechanic indeed. (Shake to pound would have been fine).

Your complain about pointing to get starbits is weird too, it doesn't hinder the gameplay at all and it's not even annoying.

 

[Orayn]

Do you even like video games? Or rather, can you elaborate more on what makes it raw garbage?

Using this image for the second time this thread.

 

[Thoraxes]

How do you know it isn't raw garbage if you have not played it?

The same can be said for it not being raw garbage too. This is all just Schrodinger's Cat-like speculation.

 

[Boney]

Honest to god, you're the first person I've ever heard saying that. To me, NSMBWii and DKCR are great examples of how you just tack on shaking where shaking isn't needed.

It just needs to work for the context, like:

If in a game an enemy has me in his clutches and I have to free myself, shaking off the enemy through shaking the controller makes sense and can feel better than just button-mashing one of the face buttons.

But using it for something like jumping or rolling? Hells no.

DK was tacked on from the little I played.

But mario worked great for me, had incredible precision. But it's hard to pinpoint an objective ground when it comes to motion controls, but for me, in that game they were great.

 

[MYE]

Poor assumptions, anyone?

I spent a ton of time with my Wii. But I'm still not comfortable with how Motion Controls are being implemented most of the time. A good example:

When I played Super Mario Bros Wii with my two brothers, everybody really disliked the whole shaking. Then I showed them what it looks like on Dolphin and what it feels like with an Xbox Controller where the shake is emulated through the press of a button - and we played through the entire game that way. Everyone preferred the direct control, there's absolutely nothing the player gains from being forced to shake his Wiimote around in this case. Just one example.

And my brothers aren't even hardcore gamers. They're just normal folks that like games and play them occasionally. Sometimes adding more things to something doesn't make it better, it just makes it more convoluted.

Anecdotal evidence to validate personal views can work both ways. I'm not even going there.

Yes on every single game you mentioned. And in every game it felt like a really tacked-on thing. Collecting the little star bits by pointing at them is a completely ridiculous mechanic in Mario Galaxy, which is one of the games that's usually getting praise for the way it handles controls.

We just completely disagree then. There is no way around it.

And the star bits is a terrible example. Star bit collecting only makes sense with a pointing interface that allows for fast and precise movement. Assigning it to a second analog would be fucking terrible.

For me it's bad design when you encourage the player to put down the controller. Forcing the player to be inactive in an interactive medium is not the way to go.

I... wat?
Isnt the Wii the opposite of inactive?

 

[Caelus]

There's no shaking in this game, it's light directional swings. I've played motion plus games before lying down and I'm a fatass. There's no waggle present.

 

[MYE]

What? lol

I loved the motion controls in NSMBW. LOVED IT
The tilting of platforms with the remot, the shaking to spin Marios chopper hat. All of it.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

I plan on buying the nintendo wii for this.

 

[Valnen]

Haven't really been stoked for Zelda ever since I heard people complain about how easy Twilight Princess is.

 

[thomasmahler]

Star bit collecting only makes sense with a pointing interface that allows for fast and precise movement. Assigning it to a second analog would be fucking terrible.

My point being that star bits shouldn't have been in the game in the first place and the entire mechanic was probably just introduced because halfway through production Nintendo themselves still didn't know how to use the Wiimote properly for their main franchise.

Nintendo did great on the Wii with motion controls and probably hoped there would be way more input and way more exciting stuff happening through third parties. But no one really yet figured out amazing ways of how to make motion control _really_ work in a way that changes gameplay and I'm pretty happy with Nintendo not introducing yet another motion control device for the WiiU.

Anyway, back on topic: I really hope that Skyward Sword has more than a handful of cute ideas on how to use WiiMotion+, but there's literally nothing I've seen in the trailers yet that makes me believe that. What I simply hope is that they polished and streamlined the Zelda formula again, then I'll be more than glad to buy it.