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[apana]

For the people who dont like motion controls, have you have played Wii Sports Resort?

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

It could be that flailing around is fun in Skyward Sword. Could be that it sucks. Without actually playing it, all we can work off of is what we see. This thread is asking if anyone else is not really stoked about SS, so I'm giving my reasons why I'm tentative. I don't enjoy motion controls, and I gave Twilight Princess the benefit of the doubt and it ended up disappointing me. Skyward Sword looks to do more of the same.

yep, Nintendo is notoriously known for ruining their main franchises with abhorrent control systems
now, if you don't like motion controls as a whole, I can understand that. But then again, why buying a wii?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Again, you're not supposed to flail.

Nah you're supposed to wave your pretend sword around with precision and timing

The point is people not liking motion controls, not the accuracy of them.

 

[MushroomSamba]

It really doesn't.
TP's controls are like playing Pong with a Track Ball.
SS is like playing Team Fortress 2 with a keyboard and mouse.

Simply put, I don't want to be doing what this guy is doing.

 

[Caelus]

The point is people not liking motion controls, not the accuracy of them.

Isn't that a reason for not liking motion controls?

Simply put, I don't want to be doing what this guy is doing.

He's swinging it too wide, although he is neater than other testers.

 

[Sennorin]

Simply put, I don't want to be doing what this guy is doing.

Then don´t play Zelda-games. Fullstop. The Zelda-series has always been about immersing the player to the highest degree. Motion controls are a natural progression for the series. Deal with it.

On another note, I feel sad, considering how dead one´s inner child has to be NOT to want to play a sword fighting game with the sword being controlled directly by your own hands. It´s like a dream come true. That´s why I, at least, started gaming. To

 

[MushroomSamba]

yep, Nintendo is notoriously known for ruining their main franchises with abhorrent control systems
now, if you don't like motion controls as a whole, I can understand that. But then again, why buying a wii?

I didn't know I was going to dislike it. And besides, the main reasons I bought a Wii were for Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, both of which did not require any motion controls at all. And actually, I just found out I lied...I did enjoy the Metroid Prime games, and didn't find the motion controls terribly obtrusive there.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Isn't that a reason for not liking motion controls?

No. As far as I know, a lot of people (myself included) don't want motion controls period. I don't feel like it immerses me in a game, I just find it an obtuse middle man between the game and me.

Personally, I go to the gym or play soccer to move around for fun - having to be moving my arms all the time to play a video game just annoys me usually

Then don´t play Zelda-games. Fullstop. The Zelda-series has always been about immersing the player to the highest degree.

buh?

 

[BY2K]

Simply put, I don't want to be doing what this guy is doing.

...

Then stay the fuck away from Skyward Sword, or a Wii, or any motion game.

This guy is actually playing the game the right way.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't find motion controls immersive, I think it's the exact opposite.

 

[Sennorin]

I don't find motion controls immersive, I think it's exact opposite.

Explain.

 

[Caelus]

I don't find motion controls immersive, I think it's exact opposite.

I don't understand how it feels the exact opposite.

If you don't like motion controls, I understand, but how is it... unmersive or whatever it is?

 

[R_thanatos]

No. As far as I know, a lot of people (myself included) don't want motion controls period. I don't feel like it immerses me in a game, I just find it an obtuse middle man between the game and me.

Before going out i'll ask : have you played wii sport resort or sports champion ( with the move ? ) . these show that precise motion control can be fun , without over the top or repetitive moves ...

i dunno maybe you " rejection " could come from a bad experience ( or the lack of experience ) with the subject .
( if not , then ..say good by to this kind of games because motion controls are going strong ATM and won't stop anytime soon )

 

[tiff]

I don't find motion controls immersive, I think it's exact opposite.

No less immersive than any other input method imo.

 

[Caelus]

To clarify things, TP controls are not proper motion controls. They are button actions assigned to a single remote movement. Actual motion controls... make the remote feel like part of the game. Hard to explain.

 

[MushroomSamba]

He's swinging it too wide, although he is neater than other testers.

From what I've seen, that's pretty much what everybody's been doing. Even if the motion is limited to smaller movements as you say, I still don't enjoy having to shake my hand to swing the sword like what I was doing in Twilight Princess. Whether it elicits 1:1 character movement or not, it still doesn't make that fun for me.

 

[Nemesis_]

When I started to see some promotional material on the villain, I got a bit more interested.

But for now I think I'll get excited AND REACH CRITICAL MASS OF EXCITEMENT on the week or the week before =P

 

[Caelus]

From what I've seen, that's pretty much what everybody's been doing. Even if the motion is limited to smaller movements as you say, I still don't enjoy having to shake my hand to swing the sword like what I was doing in Twilight Princess. Whether it elicits 1:1 character movement or not, it still doesn't make that fun for me.

The way I play it is comparable to playing with a pencil as if it were a sword- short, but strong, wrist movements.

But it's obvious this game isn't for you, unless you find some way to get used to it.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I don't understand how it feels the exact opposite.

If you don't like motion controls, I understand, but how is it... unmersive or whatever it is?

Because it makes me intensely aware of the fact that I am standing in front of a TV holding a piece of plastic. Using a controller/mouse and keyboard is fairly passive, but motion controls are very active and require full body dexterity, which just feels dumb in my living room. I like to kick out my jams while not in front of a TV.

Before going out i'll ask : have you played wii sport resort or sports champion ( with the move ? ) . these show that precise motion control can be fun , without over the top or repetitive moves ...

i dunno maybe you " rejection " could come from a bad experience ( or the lack of experience ) with the subject .
( if not , then ..say good by to this kind of games because motion controls are going strong ATM and won't stop anytime soon )

Yes I have, and no, they didn't show me that "motion control can be fun". It made me think "man, I would rather be swinging my arms around outside instead of in front of my television". And no, my rejection does not come from a bad experience. The Wii did not touch me inappropriately. Thank you for your kind diagnosis, though, doctor.

 

[StuBurns]

Explain.

When playing a game with a traditional controller, I'm not really aware of my body, what my hands are doing etc. The actions are abstracted to the controller which requires virtually no effort to use. Motion controls pull me out of a game experience and make me far more aware of my physical actions.

For some people that's not the case, and that's fine, but for me it is.

 

[WillyFive]

SS is like playing Team Fortress 2 with a keyboard and mouse.

You can still play Team Fortress 2 with a gamepad though, while only missing out on accuracy and speed.

To play Skyward Sword with a gamepad would mean getting rid of the new combat system. Not even an Ape Escape-like analog stick sword control method would work the same way the motion controls do.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think I'll wait until the game is out before declaring it, the structure, or the controls amazing or terrible.

I don't see the need to get hyped or dehyped about something I'm going to buy, anyway. If you're anti-hyped, don't buy it, where's the controversy?

 

[MushroomSamba]

...

Then stay the fuck away from Skyward Sword, or a Wii, or any motion game.

This guy is actually playing the game the right way.

Thanks for telling me what I've already been saying. Silly me must have read the thread's purpose as why people are NOT stoked about Skyward Sword.

 

[Kandinsky]

Honest to god, you're the first person I've ever heard saying that. To me, NSMBWii and DKCR are great examples of how you just tack on shaking where shaking isn't needed.

In NSMBWii waggle was great, and for me it too felt natural and awesome, it made DKCR an unplayable mess tho.

On topic, would be cool if they somehow let us use the CC's right analog to act like motion+ for those that want classic controls or w'e.

 

[The Technomancer]

From what I've seen, that's pretty much what everybody's been doing. Even if the motion is limited to smaller movements as you say, I still don't enjoy having to shake my hand to swing the sword like what I was doing in Twilight Princess. Whether it elicits 1:1 character movement or not, it still doesn't make that fun for me.

The difference should be that SS has been designed so that you're not swinging constantly like you were in TP, which IMO was the real problem.

 

[Caelus]

On topic, would be cool if they somehow let us use the CC's right analog to act like motion+ for those that want classic controls or w'e.

That would only work with Z-targeting, wouldn't it? That already exists in some form.

 

[WillyFive]

In NSMBWii waggle was great, and for me it too felt natural and awesome, it made DKCR an unplayable mess tho.

Weird, it felt unnatural for me doing it on NSMBWii, but I thought it was perfect and very fun on DKCR (got me banned for it too).

On NSMBWii, I didn't see the need to have to shake the controller to some of the actions, but the actions you did on DKCR with it made shaking the controller very visceral and fun.

 

[R_thanatos]

Thank you for your kind diagnosis, though, doctor.

You're welcome , at least i tried to understand what seems to make YOU so different from what could be a great breakthrough in action video games. ( heck even old sci movies are dreaming of motion control devices .. )

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

I didn't know I was going to dislike it. And besides, the main reasons I bought a Wii were for Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, both of which did not require any motion controls at all. And actually, I just found out I lied...I did enjoy the Metroid Prime games, and didn't find the motion controls terribly obtrusive there.

I guess SS will have the most refined motion controls ever. "Obtrusive" to the max, to use your words, since Nintendo's gone full steam about it. Not sure if you should buy the game then, chum

I don't find motion controls immersive, I think it's exact opposite.

I kind of see what you mean, assuming I'm thinking of the same thing

 

[Orayn]

The difference should be that SS has been designed so that you're not swinging constantly like you were in TP, which IMO was the real problem.

I like the idea behind this. Enemies go down fast, but take more precision to beat. It suits the series well, IMO.

Because it makes me intensely aware of the fact that I am standing in front of a TV holding a piece of plastic. Using a controller/mouse and keyboard is fairly passive, but motion controls are very active and require full body dexterity, which just feels dumb in my living room. I like to kick out my jams while not in front of a TV.

Your arms are your entire body?

 

[Boney]

I don't find motion controls immersive, I think it's exact opposite.

Me neither. I find them fun when appropriatly and sparingly used. Or when the game is built around them like Wii Sports.

 

[Dice]

Ok, only there was nothing remotely similar to Jersey Shore or the X-Games in the majority of comics in the 90s. Not even Image comics. The criticism about 90s comics was that they focused on incredibly stylish art and graphic violence, with some sexual themes thrown in there for fun. Writing quality, character depth and the like took a back seat.

What exactly did you think it meant when you read "branch-off use of the term"?

I mean, it obviously doesn't mean "continuation of the same concept" as you have taken it to mean in your post, so you either completely ignored it, or you have made up some very strange definition for yourself as an excuse to bitch at me.

To clarify what should be incredibly obvious, that particular use of the term in reference to DiRT 2 was strictly linguistic. The game literally kept butting in with "dude" and "bro" to try and make the player feel accepted by celebrity racers. This is a branch-off use of the term "dudebro" because the original meaning is basically extremely exaggerated macho stuff and had nothing to do with communication.

But even the biggest detractors of the direction comics took in the 90s were smart enough to realize 'damn this is some fucking AWESOME artwork'. They just wished that it had some great writing to go along with it.

Honestly, if that's the definitely of dude-bro, then Quinten Tarantino movies are dudebro.

It's just a stupid phase used by idiots to say 'people who like different things than me... especially popular things'

No. I would say that something like the movie 500 definitely is dudebro, but Tarantino movies only have violence, not the hyper exaggerated masculine stereotypes.

You really seem to be having a difficult time understanding the premise of this extremely simple concept, so perhaps you should go to where it was born: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381946

If you still don't understand it after that, I suppose it can't be helped. Regardless, it is not a vague and empty term like "hipster" which can be used so loosely. It is a reference to a fairly narrow field of characterization into which Darksiders clearly falls. It is more on the fantasy slasher side, and then there is the bald space marine side. Doesn't God of War fall into this as well? I suppose, yes.

And in addressing that, I guess my distaste is more in the "gothic bullshit" part of my description. I dislike the anime-esque proportions and WoW-like nature of being so excessively ornate. To my eyes it looks cluttered rather than stylish, just ugly and annoying to look at. The thing is simply trying too damn hard, which is what makes dudebro come to mind aside from the hyper bulky proportions.

But all of this is quite a tangent from the thread topic. Sorry if I offended your favorite comic artists or something, but I don't like their style. If they are like 90s comics or the guy who did the art concepts for Darksiders, they definitely are dudebro. Dudebro can be done in a tolerable fashion, as God of War and Mass Effect are very dudebro and yet I like them. However, it can also be done in a way that makes it the very reason I dislike something.

Either way, it is certainly not just a label for something I dislike. It is a stylistic choice the developer makes.

 

[MYE]

Motion controls take me out of the experience as much as touch screens, laser pens in presentations or drawing on my Wacom tablet. Meaning that it doesnt if its responsive and i'm invested enough in whats happening.
I dont see how twidling a thumbstick is immersive and making my on screen cursor catch all the starbits in Galaxy, or flicking to make Mario spin isnt. My mind will easily assimilate these rather simple actions and i'l forget about them 10 seconds in.

In the case of a more "complex" motion controlled game like SS its the same thing. Horizontal flick for an horizontal attack, vertical for vertical attacks and so on. A pretty logical relation between action and on-screen reaction that, in my case, actually makes me feel like i'm more involved with what is happening on screen, to be honest.
As for IR pointing to aim... hell, i feel i dont even need to make a case for that one.

I LOVE it when its done properly and i'm sure they will do a wonderfull job with SS. Cant wait

 

[The Antitype]

What exactly did you think it meant when you read "branch-off use of the term"?

I mean, it obviously doesn't mean "continuation of the same concept" as you have taken it to mean in your post, so you either completely ignored it, or you have made up some very strange definition for yourself as an excuse to bitch at me.

To clarify what should be incredibly obvious, that particular use of the term in reference to DiRT 2 was strictly linguistic. The game literally kept butting in with "dude" and "bro" to try and make the player feel accepted by celebrity racers. This is a branch-off use of the term "dudebro" because the original meaning is basically extremely exaggerated macho stuff and had nothing to do with communication.

No. I would say that something like the movie 500 definitely is dudebro, but Tarantino movies only have violence, not the hyper exaggerated masculine stereotypes.

You really seem to be having a difficult time understanding the premise of this extremely simple concept, so perhaps you should go to where it was born: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381946

If you still don't understand it after that, I suppose it can't be helped. Regardless, it is not a vague and empty term like "hipster" which can be used so loosely. It is a reference to a fairly narrow field of characterization into which Darksiders clearly falls. It is more on the fantasy slasher side, and then there is the bald space marine side. Doesn't God of War fall into this as well? I suppose, yes.

And in addressing that, I guess my distaste is more in the "gothic bullshit" part of my description. I dislike the anime-esque proportions and WoW-like nature of being so excessively ornate. To my eyes it looks cluttered rather than stylish, just ugly and annoying to look at. The thing is simply trying too damn hard, which is what makes dudebro come to mind aside from the hyper bulky proportions.

But all of this is quite a tangent from the thread topic. Sorry if I offended your favorite comic artists or something, but I don't like their style. If they are like 90s comics or the guy who did the art concepts for Darksiders, they definitely are dudebro. Dudebro can be done in a tolerable fashion, as God of War and Mass Effect are very dudebro and yet I like them. However, it can also be done in a way that makes it the very reason I dislike something.

Either way, it is certainly not just a label for something I dislike. It is a stylistic choice the developer makes.

Very informative.

Still comes off as a means for a small audience to dismiss the tastes of a larger audience with a catch-all phrase for anything that larger audience may prefer.

I would entertain the notion that it was a narrow field of characterization if the phrase wasn't used in every thread related to games made outside japan, sold on Steam as an indie title, and/or sell more than 200,000 copies over the course of their lifetime.

Dudebro is tossed around just as much as 'hipster'... only it tends to be tossed around BY the videogame equivalent to hipsters.

I don't actually have a favorite artist from the 90s. I like many of them. But accusing comic-book artists of pushing the hyper-masculine is a little ridiculous in a genre defined by super-heroes. Obviously muscles and square-jaws will win-out over the androgynous styles seen in manga or anime.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

another quick hands on

 

[MYE]

Having had plenty of time to figure out the MotionPlus controls and how to use them quickly and effectively, it's the most natural thing to have Link holding the sword whichever way you direct him. Link's sword being in a fixed position, such as in Twilight Princess, seems awkward in comparison.

Music to my ears.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

In NSMBWii waggle was great, and for me it too felt natural and awesome, it made DKCR an unplayable mess tho.

On topic, would be cool if they somehow let us use the CC's right analog to act like motion+ for those that want classic controls or w'e.

Pro tip: if you shake roll you can buffer your rolls and get perfect rolls every time.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

You're welcome , at least i tried to understand what seems to make YOU so different from what could be a great breakthrough in action video games. ( heck even old sci movies are dreaming of motion control devices .. )

Clearly I just hate the future. What are you trying to get at here?

 

[R_thanatos]

Clearly I just hate the future. What are you trying to get at here?

maybe you're reading TOO MUCH into what i might want to say behind the lines and not enough and what i'm saying .

Short answer : what am i trying to get at ? nothing. You're thinking too much.

 

[Jaroof]

Yeah.. I'm not. Twilight Princess was pretty disappointing to me.
Also, the two DS games weren't that great either. :/
Hopefully this will get Zelda back on track.

 

[Angry Fork]

I don't like the art style but I'm interested. I don't have a Wii anymore though so I won't be able to play it unfortunately. I feel like they haven't really shown much still though. Besides the E3 demo I haven't seen any other levels that look different visually.

 

[M°°nblade]

I'll start caring about zelda again when Nintendo makes a Wii U game with traditional controls and up-to-date visuals.

 

[BY2K]

I'll start caring about zelda again when Nintendo makes a Wii U Zelda with traditional controls and up-to-date visuals.

You are gonna get one of the two with Zelda Wii U, apparently.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

yep, Nintendo is notoriously known for ruining their main franchises with abhorrent control systems
now, if you don't like motion controls as a whole, I can understand that. But then again, why buying a wii?

Metroid Other M and Donkey Kong Country Returns say, "Hello."

 

[Deadstar]

Why?
They were right, at the time.

Nintendo sold a bunch of Wii's but that doesn't mean standard def looks better than hd. I will probably play it but I'm not really excited about it at all.

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

if sword-fighting is as good as it is in Fruit Ninja, I'm sold!*

 

[Duxxy3]

If people are wondering why the anti-hype crowd is so adamant about stating their opinion just thing of this.

They are as big of Zelda fans as you are.
I have owned every console Zelda start with the NES and the majority of the handheld Zelda's. What are my least favorite Zelda games?

Twilight Princess - Wii
Phantom Hourglass
Spirit Tracks

Why? Forced non-traditional controls.

It probably didn't help that Nintendo released a traditional controls Zelda in the same year as Skyward Sword.

 

[loosus]

Unless something drastic changes, I will probably not get this game. There are just so many things that I hate about modern Zelda games. Twilight Princess was boring as fuck. They are trying to make Zelda a typical, run-of-the-mill Japanese RPG with shitty storylines, anime-inspired craziness, and tons and tons of unnecessary text.

Nintendo has run just about every one of its major franchises into the ground, and Zelda is leading the way. It is just a bad, bad series of games nowadays, and there is little hope that it will change any time soon. If it were not for Mario, Nintendo would be completely and utterly dead to me.

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

If you're anti-hyped, don't buy it, where's the controversy?

the thread is asking why you're not hyped, so people give their reasons?

 

[dwu8991]

Motion controls take me out of the experience as much as touch screens, laser pens in presentations or drawing on my Wacom tablet. Meaning that it doesnt if its responsive and i'm invested enough in whats happening.
I dont see how twidling a thumbstick is immersive and making my on screen cursor catch all the starbits in Galaxy, or flicking to make Mario spin isnt. My mind will easily assimilate these rather simple actions and i'l forget about them 10 seconds in.

In the case of a more "complex" motion controlled game like SS its the same thing. Horizontal flick for an horizontal attack, vertical for vertical attacks and so on. A pretty logical relation between action and on-screen reaction that, in my case, actually makes me feel like i'm more involved with what is happening on screen, to be honest.
As for IR pointing to aim... hell, i feel i dont even need to make a case for that one.

I LOVE it when its done properly and i'm sure they will do a wonderfull job with SS. Cant wait

I see what your problem is. You expect all motion games to offer full body immersion experiences. And when it doesn't happen, you cry poor.