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Anyone else sad that spritework is dead in mainstream gaming?

Muffdraul said:
What you don't see anymore are people turning cranks on cameras to make black & white films with no sound, or using wooden printing presses that do one page at a time.
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Guy Maddin? And as someone that belongs to a local printing guild, yeah, a lot of well-respected people use a lot of archaic processes to create. But that's a total aside. You're conflating process and medium.
 
Zia said:
Guy Maddin? And as someone that belongs to a local printing guild, yeah, a lot of well-respected people use a lot of archaic processes to create. But that's a total aside. You're conflating process and medium.
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Are any mainstream publishers using these archaic presses? Mainstream filmmakers still using old wooden crank box cameras? No. It's an oldworld artform being kept alive by independent specialists. Similar to how 2D sprites are still around and probably always will be. But they're still anachronistic.
 
I do miss sprites. I *really* miss colorful games.

They still exist, obviously, but they used to be more prominent. Even games like Streets of Rage were full of awesome, bright colors.
 
yes, but fortunately we still have indie games.


Skilletor said:
I have no factual evidence for this, it's just something I feel I've noticed.

2D sprite based games have more precise control than 3D "2.5D" games. For that reason alone, I miss sprites. I love the way sprites look, I think they age better than 3D models, but aside from random gifs and screens I don't notice graphics much after the first hour of a game I like.

I do notice the controls feel more sloppy.

UMvC3 is the only 2.5D game I've played that I feel controls as well as its sprited based counterpart.
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imo, i think this is about the huge role frames play in fgs. in sprites, each frame is designed purposefully. whereas 2.5d, they design a fluid animation, and specific frames seem more like an afterthought.
 
I think the "technology marches on" attitude is too narrow minded. This is like asking "why we still got paintings?" because today's CG technology and artistic technique can render photo-realistic scenes of anything.*

The pixel art that evolved out of the technological medium is separate from the technology. It shouldn't be written off as "nostalgia" but nostalgia is a popular pejorative buzzword lately.

(Probably due to a resurgence in appreciation of earlier eras of style and expression. Someone always seems oddly bothered when people say something that existed before is still good.)



*in point of fact, I recall a bulletin board thread circa 1998 in which eager young technologists, infatuated by the rapidly developing world of computer animation, laughed at anyone studying traditional art and media. Soon, they said, nobody anywhere would want to see mere drawings or paintings. We can now render any world imaginable with perfect photo-realism! Art is over, pack it in.
 
I will always miss sprite work, for sure.

What I will miss as well are pre-drawn backgrounds like those found in Chrono Cross. I hope to see a resurgence of both, one day.

DivineDragonFalls.png
 
Add Mario and Sonic to that list. I miss it too.

3D is cheap and easy compared to hand drawn animation. You lose a lot of charm but it saves money.

Some companies get it right and some have no right trying to animate using polygons.
 
I don't really see the problem here. Like you mention, there are still a LOT of indie-games and even some higher budget games using sprites (on handhelds mostly, but still). I think there is no shortage in awesome games with sprites. There may not be a lot of AAA releases using sprites, but then again most AAA games nowadays wouldn't work with sprites.

Youu can compare it with the music industry. I don't like pop music and wont listen to everything that is popular right now like Lady Gaga and Nicki Minaj, but I don't want to see them make the music I like. I'd rather just enjoy the less popular stuff. Of course I'd like to see more of the music I enjoy being popular, but that is an entirely different issue.
 
Most genres that could benefit from spritework aren't really mainstream anymore. In that sense, it's a shame that Nintendo has abandoned sprites on the 3DS.

DJIzana said:
I will always miss sprite work, for sure.

What I will miss as well are pre-drawn backgrounds like those found in Chrono Cross. I hope to see a resurgence of both, one day.

DivineDragonFalls.png
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Bravely Default has them.
 
I forgot to mention: My comments about Rayman appply to Dragon's Crown as well. Vanillaware's art is gorgeous and incredibly well executed, but they use a LOT of paper doll animation and stretch/squash techniques with fewer unique, hand-drawn frames than you'd think.

Like Superjail (season 1) or Wakfu, you can still achieve phenomenal results using essentially the same suite of techniques as Flash. It just boils down to having better art and animation.
 
I miss them but I understand why they aren't used much anymore just like hand drawn animation. I still enjoy seeing them used but even if they don't use them much anymore, I still have all my older games with them that I still enjoy and love. And those aren't going away!
 
Muffdraul said:
Are any mainstream publishers using these archaic presses? Mainstream filmmakers still using old wooden crank box cameras? No. It's an oldworld artform being kept alive by independent specialists. Similar to how 2D sprites are still around and probably always will be. But they're still anachronistic.
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My issue with your statement is that you're likening sprite work to cave drawings. Just because they aren't the prevalent mode of expression doesn't mean they're a relic from another era. Particularly since 3D in 2D is usually used as a cheap shortcut. It's not inherently "superior." Again, by your definition of anachronistic, painting and film are also anachronistic.
 
One of the best things about the DS being underpowered(and having some of the worst 3D known to man) was that it forced developers to keep making sprite-based games. There's some really great stuff from Wayforward, or the wonderful spritework of the Mario and Luigi games, or the new creations from Konami on the Igavanias, etc.

Now it's just boring, dull 3d like Mirror of Fate, or pre-rendered sprites that pop out for the tacky 3D effect like that ugly-as-shit Yoshi's Island game.
 
Kai Dracon said:
I think the "technology marches on" attitude is too narrow minded. This is like asking "why we still got paintings?" because today's CG technology and artistic technique can render photo-realistic scenes of anything.*

The pixel art that evolved out of the technological medium is separate from the technology. It shouldn't be written off as "nostalgia" but nostalgia is a popular pejorative buzzword lately.

(Probably due to a resurgence in appreciation of earlier eras of style and expression. Someone always seems oddly bothered when people say something that existed before is still good.)



*in point of fact, I recall a bulletin board thread circa 1998 in which eager young technologists, infatuated by the rapidly developing world of computer animation, laughed at anyone studying traditional art and media. Soon, they said, nobody anywhere would want to see mere drawings or paintings. We can now render any world imaginable with perfect photo-realism! Art is over, pack it in.
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I don't think anyone has actually said anything as stupid as "why we still got paintings" in here.

Personally, I wouldn't use nostalgia as a pejorative, anyways. It's not my fault if a word that actually means something becomes a buzzword.

You are right about the resurgence of appreciation though. I don't think the SNES has been this popular in 15 years. I know personally I hooked mine back up a year ago. So many great games.

I'll say that one of the nifty things about this medium is that art and tech are married. You can admire both separately, but that's not really how they are represented within the actual media.
 
Kai Dracon said:
I think the "technology marches on" attitude is too narrow minded. This is like asking "why we still got paintings?" because today's CG technology and artistic technique can render photo-realistic scenes of anything.*

The pixel art that evolved out of the technological medium is separate from the technology. It shouldn't be written off as "nostalgia" but nostalgia is a popular pejorative buzzword lately.

(Probably due to a resurgence in appreciation of earlier eras of style and expression. Someone always seems oddly bothered when people say something that existed before is still good.)



*in point of fact, I recall a bulletin board thread circa 1998 in which eager young technologists, infatuated by the rapidly developing world of computer animation, laughed at anyone studying traditional art and media. Soon, they said, nobody anywhere would want to see mere drawings or paintings. We can now render any world imaginable with perfect photo-realism! Art is over, pack it in.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. Film still has value even if most stuff isn't shot on it anymore. Grain and natural motion blur contribute to the distinctive look. (Thank goodness for Breaking Bad going almost 100% on film through to the end.) Going back and playing old sprite systems (Saturn and before) on a CRT looks much more impressive than seeing the same on an LCD or plasma screen, but it's the consistency of the old systems' coarser resolutions and the sprite collision with their glossier pixel-perfect behavior that contribute to the look of all games made on that hardware, created with its distinguishing characteristics in mind. Modern digital imaging and processing cannot easily or completely replicate that unmistakable effect on both the creation of the art and animation nor can it feel quite so solid in motion the way old systems do.
 
I was sad as hello Pokémon was still 2D, now I need not worry.
Sprite overstayed its welcome in my life, now I'm moving on.
 
nailbombxx said:
The fighters that still use sprites look way better than the ones with 3D models.

See King of Fighters XIII
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Weird case, since they do the character models and animations in 3D first, then draw sprites on top of them. It's a form of rotoscoping, but with CG instead of film. Also note that Capcom used quite a bit of rotoscoping back in the day, giving us things like that (in)famous GIF of Elena from SFIII with the beautifully animated body and completely static head.

Oddly enough, this also connects to the "2D is more precise!" arguments, since you can easily put pixel-perfect 2D collision masks onto 3D models that are constrained to a single plane. (Capcom's 3D fighters as of SFIV and Nintendo's 2.5D platformers work like this.)
 
In the case of Pokémon XY, I'm not missing sprites, these games weren't that pretty while XY looks gorgeous.

But yeah, I wish there were more quality 2D games like Rayman Origins, Muramasa and Dragon's Crown. It particularly pisses me of with games like that Duck Tales remakes.
 
I see nothing wrong with sprites. They're just an art style to me. I would be very sad if they were to go away completely, but that will never happen. It's sort of hard to imagine anyone hating on them.

Kyon said:
I'm not kidding. Sprites are not all that and the whole retro gaming thing is so overrated on Gaf. I ain't here for it. I'm in for the 3rd dimension
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щ(ಠ益ಠщ)
 
Sprites haven't really gone anywhere. They're still regulated to stuff like icons.

3D is just the natural evolution to sprites. I'd hate for every game to be held back by sprites if better opportunities exist.
 
Froli said:
Not dead, specially with the indie games in the corner + new generation of this guys from Pixeljoint and Way of Pixelation <-- Some of the wayforward artists trained and honed their skills here.
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Oh no, what happened to Pixelation? :<

I'd love to actually do some pixel art. I find the level of control fascinating, love the ability to suggest things with minute abstraction, but you know, the whole talent thing :p
 
I are sad, but there are a few companies that still do it.

I disagree to the comparison to film etc, as it is a particular art style.

Take a look at this lovely piece of SNK art;

gi249Kl.gif
 
I wanna see more high-res spritework like KOF XIII, BlazBlue, and Scott Pilgrim -- games that use sprites of a quality that you can immediately tell wasn't possible on older hardware.
 
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