My only worries for the future right now are existential in nature. PC gaming seems to be in a pretty good place right now, though I would like to see more devs push the envelope visually. I miss having a shooter like Crysis come out and knowing it would be a few years before a playable, but still inferior, version would be hitting consoles. I suppose VR is kind of the realm for that sort of thing now.
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Anyone else worried for the future of PC Gaming?
- Thread starter Syphon Filter
- Start date
They supposedly have a solution if that ever happens:
I would love to know what. I don't expect Steam to shut down any time soon but I don't see how they can let people access thousands upon thousands of games if Valve ever shuts down (the only way Steam would shut down). Any solution I can think of would be expensive, especially for a company shutting down.
But hopefully nothing will happen any time soon!
CecilRousso
Member
No, I don't.
When I buy a game from Steam, I'm prepared to accept a server depency against their store, but adding additional depencies to that purchase does not feel okay.
And Steam doesn't actively try and mask how it works, as Denuvo does.
And being a Steamworks game doesn't invalidate the option of a GOG release in the same way as Denuvo does (as soon as a DRM free release is available, Denuvo is rendered useless).
And then, on top of that, we can add the Denuvo worries of future preservation and obstacles for modding.
So no, I don't feel the same way about Steam as I do about Denuvo.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Sure, the servers will probably still be around for the next decade. That doesn't make them infallible.
A year ago, Steam decided that OS X users on Snow Leopard will no longer be able to log into their accounts, meaning that many of them can no longer play their games. What about when the same happens to Windows XP or Vista? Yes, these OS's are old, but what will happen to games that aren't compatible with newer versions of Windows?
Meanwhile, Valve has had enough glaring security issues in the past couple years that I don't particularly want to trust them with my user data (except I can't really help it, because they have such a stranglehold on the market).
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea but the way I look at is is that PC gamings lifeblood basically is Steam besides Blizzard. So if Steam were to ever die then that means pc gaming is dead too since pc is now digital only. Only other thing I can think of is that everyone moves to something like gog.
Clint Beastwood
Banned
PC survived through worse
Wowfunhappy
Member
Valve likes to say this. I don't believe them.They supposedly have a solution if that ever happens:
Valve has legal agreements in place with Bethesda, Ubisoft, etc. regarding how games are distributed. They can't just flip a switch and remove Steam's DRM from their products. The publishers would never freaking agree to a license agreement like that.
The cake is a lie.
Wowfunhappy
Member
If the Denuvo check-in was set up to connect to Valve's own servers, would that make it okay? Legitimate question.
It's not outside the realm of possibility that this could be adjusted, if enough consumers asked for it. It shouldn't make much of a difference to the publishers.
I think it would be good to shift to, well, more reasonable requests. The publishers aren't going to abandon the one software solution which has actually been effective at preventing piracy.
Don't several of the games have DRM on top of the steam DRM? Plus the majority of games on steam are indie games that are already available without DRM, so at most it might affect a few of the bigger publishers.
I don't really think this will be a problem for most games.
Let's be honest, it will never be worse than Nintendo reselling people their classic games every single time they launch a new platform.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Some do, some don't.
Actually, seemingly less and less indie games are available DRM-free these daysit might help if more consumers actually bought free copies when available. That said, indies: I'd love to know if there's information about whether Valve has the right to remove the DRM from your games, in theory.
Concerned for the market? Certainly not, entertainment will remain in demand for a long time to come.
Concerned for our freedom of options, on the other hand, sure. Things like GOG selling DRM free titles only are such a rarity, and I feel like nobody else is gonna jump on that train.
Concerned for our freedom of options, on the other hand, sure. Things like GOG selling DRM free titles only are such a rarity, and I feel like nobody else is gonna jump on that train.
Whiteblade999
Member
Edit: Wrong thread..
RainblowDash
Gold Member
Seems to me that PC Gaming is still going strong especially with the new GTX1080s and R9 480Xs rolling out.
On the software front, sure Microsoft is trying to gain control again with Windows 10 and the announcement that all future Xbox games will have a PC version, but I'm willing to be they'll falter just like with GFWL.
Of course Steam is still very relevant too and VR will likely take off.
On the software front, sure Microsoft is trying to gain control again with Windows 10 and the announcement that all future Xbox games will have a PC version, but I'm willing to be they'll falter just like with GFWL.
Of course Steam is still very relevant too and VR will likely take off.
scotcheggz
Member
From my perspective I'm more concerned for consoles.. I don't have a PS4/XBONE and don't care to buy one really. I used to play consoles for the quirky Japanese games but they seem less and less these days. PC is getting a large majority of console releases, including games from Japanese devs. Emulators are stronger than ever, so I can get my old skool quirky fix there. I really don't see the point in owning a console at all. I know its a pc master race cliche, but right now I see consoles as just gimped platforms right now. I wish it wasn't so. I'll follow the new Nintendo console when it's getting closer to see what they offer up, but otherwise I'm not too bothered. Maybe there is some games I'm missing, but I doubt it's a library large enough to make me shell out £300.
I think hobbyists will always give you a way in PC gaming, the way it's always been. I don't see much in the future that will be changing that trend.
I think hobbyists will always give you a way in PC gaming, the way it's always been. I don't see much in the future that will be changing that trend.
Bl@de
Member
No. Numbers show that people mostly ignore shit like Microsofts UWp etc. and don't care much about most stupid AAA ideas. Maybe AAA will leave at some point (again). But with GoG, Kickstarter, etc. I'm not that worried about PC gaming in general. I would be even more optimistic if Vulkan becomes a true alternative to DirectX with more support.
Denuvo has great marketing compared to the DRMs of old and with (PC) gaming becoming more and more mainstream people just dont cae about 3rd party server dependencies (i am pretty sure that nowadays even online-only xbox would be success)
As for relatively unkown party .... Denuvo is basically Sony DADC aka creators of Securom, which is pretty known party and from their history is obvious that securom now is uplayable on modern OSes and Securom itself was flawless and welcomed DRM for years until certain rootkit was found
Call it paranoia , but I just don't trust company with such history to have supreme domination over my games and right now pretty much unregulated monopoly on the market
You can buy games legally that worked fine on previous versions of Windows that will not run on Windows 10 because of the type of DRM they used. All disc based games that used SafeDisc and some that used SecuROM will not run on PC because Microsoft intentionally dropped support for security reasons.
Any DRM solution can eventually become a DRM problem.
I don't think PC gaming is in any harm. If M$ decides to wall off Win10 (which I highly doubt they will if they don't want to alienate most of its business customers), then Linux (SteamOS especially) will skyrocket through the air.
Oh and for Denuvo I think it's only downside is that it's tied to online servers (which I worry about, too), but other than that I think it's a good thing for PC games because devs won't have to worry that their games get ripped off massively before even getting released. I have played several games with Denuvo now and I didn't even notice anything in terms of usability, performance etc. because of it.
No discussion that DRM-free basically still is the optimum, but that won't happen anytime soon on Steam or more precisely for AAA titles.
Oh and for Denuvo I think it's only downside is that it's tied to online servers (which I worry about, too), but other than that I think it's a good thing for PC games because devs won't have to worry that their games get ripped off massively before even getting released. I have played several games with Denuvo now and I didn't even notice anything in terms of usability, performance etc. because of it.
No discussion that DRM-free basically still is the optimum, but that won't happen anytime soon on Steam or more precisely for AAA titles.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
I'm not worried about PC gaming in general so much as I am worried about Steam.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Nope, Valve took Linux to another without a lot of effort at all. And the client thing is not a problem IMO, PC gaming was cool before steam.
The state of PC gaming as a platform is fine, but PC games haven't been a thing for years. It's either console ports or indie stuff. Valve stopped publishing games and Blizzard slowly turned into a console-centric dev in terms of streamlining design for mass appeal. And no competitive games like CS GO, Hearthstone, Overwatch and DotA 2 don't count. How about Warcraft 4 maybe, with a SP campaign on par with Reign of Chaos?
And they are easily crackable. People will always find a way. Unless it's something like Diablo 3, where part of the game is kept on a server.
Bl@de
Member
Must be sarcasm. Must be.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, it would probably matter to Denuvo themselves, there's the catch. Denuvo isn't just for Steam games.
I'll only start truly worrying if the Windows Store actually sees an adaption rate under its current iteration. So far the community has said no with their wallets. GOG is growing and setting standards that will hopefully become more widespread. Even the Snorlax that is Steam is slowly starting to implement more consumer friendly features. Could do with someone behind them with an electrical probe when they start dawdling.
On the DRM front. There are enough great games out there that aren't running Denuvo. I know it's not a great stance to take, but I can't do much else and after years of various fiascos with DRM my brain just puts them into a pre-release state. There is zero trust there. As much as it's a shame that I'm not going to support/play Abzu in its current state, I'm not lacking in things to play that have no risk. Quadrilateral Cowboy can have the money, as can No Man's Sky if the reception to it falls in line with what I want from it.
I'd be more worried about consoles honestly. They're getting all the worst aspects of PC with few of the positives and those that are making their way over are no where near as polished or feature rich as their PC counterparts. And now it's tipping over onto the hardware side.
On the DRM front. There are enough great games out there that aren't running Denuvo. I know it's not a great stance to take, but I can't do much else and after years of various fiascos with DRM my brain just puts them into a pre-release state. There is zero trust there. As much as it's a shame that I'm not going to support/play Abzu in its current state, I'm not lacking in things to play that have no risk. Quadrilateral Cowboy can have the money, as can No Man's Sky if the reception to it falls in line with what I want from it.
I'd be more worried about consoles honestly. They're getting all the worst aspects of PC with few of the positives and those that are making their way over are no where near as polished or feature rich as their PC counterparts. And now it's tipping over onto the hardware side.
I obviously am.
Computing as a whole is being forcibly moved to a state where users have no control and corporations have all the control, even over what is going on on your own system. Or at least that is the attempt.
What makes me hopeful is that many games -- e.g. indies and mid-tier ones supported by crowdfunding -- continue to be available in DRM-free versions.
What it really comes down to is that Steam DRM is easily cracked, that's why it's a non-issue preservation-wise.
Computing as a whole is being forcibly moved to a state where users have no control and corporations have all the control, even over what is going on on your own system. Or at least that is the attempt.
What makes me hopeful is that many games -- e.g. indies and mid-tier ones supported by crowdfunding -- continue to be available in DRM-free versions.
No.
What it really comes down to is that Steam DRM is easily cracked, that's why it's a non-issue preservation-wise.
DRM breaks all the time. Someone posted an example this page of certain physical games no longer working on Win 10.
Game for Windows Live is going to leave more than a few of those owned games either unplayable flat out or with broken features.
Or in the case of abritrary online DRM forcing buyers to maintain an internet connection, which is generally pretty absurd just typing that out and shouldn't need to be explained further.
Possumowner
Member
No,definitely not.Again like others have noted it actually feels like PC gaming is starting to gain some serious traction within the mainstream.
AloneNoFriends
Neo Member
I bought a few games from Microsoft's Games for Windows Live Marketplace back in the day. Now that the service is obsolete it's impossible for me to download/play any of the games I bought from them. I essentially paid for a license to play the games for 5-6 years and now they're gone. What if the same thing happens with Steam one day?
Just another reason why consoles and physical games are always better in the long run.
Just another reason why consoles and physical games are always better in the long run.
Oh, you have two DVD drives? Sorry, you can't play your game.
Oh, you upgraded your hardware? Sorry, you can't play your game.
Oh, you don't have an internet connection? Sorry, you can't play your entirely single player game.
Oh, something went wrong on our end? Sorry, you can't play your single player game.
Oh, you wanted to play an older game? Sorry, we no longer run the service that controls the DRM for that game.
Oh, you wanted to play your game? Nah, no reason, just nah.
I have had all five of these happen to me, some on more than one occasion. Most recent is having to apply a crack to GTAV because it's easier than fighting R* Social Club on launch. And this isn't even the worst DRM experience I've had with a GTA game. But at least cracks exist to counteract this. I'm not putting down money and hoping there won't be issue somewhere along the line that I'm entirely reliant on companies to fix. There was a time once, but that good will has been spent over the years with the above issues.
Just to add another example. I'm currently having to look into finding my Rome: Total War Gold disc and cracking it because (and I haven't confirmed yet) the Steam version is a slideshow on newer system due to an update exclusive to it. I dislike that I have to go to this much effort, but at least there is a solution. If Denuvo was in this, I'd be out of luck.
Bl@de
Member
Depends on the quality of emulation. PS1/2 games are in a good place. PS3 not so much (at least not yet). With the x86 architecture of the PS4 I'm hopeful for this generation.
JustSomeone
Member
I'm worried about pc gaming, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
I'm worried about the fact that many PC games get dumbed down so that they could be played on consoles as well. Hell, even system shock and torment are getting console versions.
PC gaming was far better in the 90s, when PC games didn't have to be designed to work with controllers and screens that are far from the player.
I'm worried about the fact that many PC games get dumbed down so that they could be played on consoles as well. Hell, even system shock and torment are getting console versions.
PC gaming was far better in the 90s, when PC games didn't have to be designed to work with controllers and screens that are far from the player.
There's no good reason not to count competitive games which has always been a genre the PC has been strong in.
Same with indie games why are you being so dismissive of them? Part of it being an open platform is that you get to play some cool games that might have never made it to console otherwise.
It isn't often that the PC gets "big" exclusives anymore granted but you still see some like the Civ games and X-Com 2 which came out this year was built for the PC.
justsomeguy
Member
😂 this is my favourite GAF post ever. It's all about perspective.