Neoriceisgood
Member
I'm confused why he'd make that joking comment if it's just Link.
Link as he appears in the manual of Link to the Past, even if the sprite is pink due to the limited color palette of the SNES/Super Famicom.
Wanting it to happen is one thing, them having to do it is something completely different, and lot of you guys are sounding more and more like the latter. What do you guys win if Nintendo or any other company did it only because of people's pressure, or to cater you? Wouldn't you rather see them doing it by own initiative, just by themselves because it ocurred to them it could work?
No, I'm not saying it had to be a male Link. I'm saying Link being a boy in several of the Legend of Zelda games influenced his character and his interactions in the game world. This is after the decision to have him be a boy was made. Similarly, if he was made a girl, then she would in turn be influenced by that decision. Because I believe gender has a noticeable influence on personality and on characterization if we're talking representation in media.I don't think we're going to agree here but I'll ask:
Can you provide examples that show it had to be a male Link in those games?
And as said before, the reason it's become a big issue is because of the combination of Links appearance throwing everyone off AND the creators comments.
All he had to say was "Sorry everyone but that's Link" and the disappointment wouldn't be this big.
The title hero of all fucking time has a certain weight to it. So why does destiny keep picking males? What does gender have to do with Links soul?
"And the powers that be decided to reincarnate Link, the hero of time, who must always have to have a penis and testicles or he couldn't be the hero of time, time and again to save the universe"
I'm confused why he'd make that joking comment if it's just Link.
What opportunity? I don't get it.
Are you saying this for 95% of the games btw?
"Sony just missed a huge chance by not making Sackgirl?"
It's the gender of a fictional character no reason to be depressed.God, I was hoping that was the case so bad. I'm actually too depressed to sleep right now
What part of the reincarnation cycle says he has to be a boy? Girls live in a world where the majority playable video game characters are guys. Can young boys not fathom playing as a girl?
Let's get Nintendo to make Mario a girl!No, the bigger the character, the bigger the opportunity. Link is enormous, and there are reasonable arguments for why his gender isn't hugely important. This is something a lot of people want. What's more, it would be attention getting. I don't think 'missed opportunity' is incorrect at all.
And yet so many scoff at the idea of changing it up just once. I still don't understand how link's soul is physiologically male.
I feel like I'm about to state the obvious, but...That's why I don't understand the defensiveness of Link being a female for one game. It seems more like people just don't want to play as a female character.
Another thing is that Mario will always be a guy character. His whole story is Mario saves his Princess and the series is called Mario Bro's.
Because one game where the whole franchise doesn't even use the same character and his appearance changes throughout each game having a female lead should not bother people this much. Gender doesn't affect Link at all.
That's the thing. It's like Assassin's Creed. The protagonists are related by bloodline, not gender. (Ironically, AC's protagonists are traditionally male too.) Both series could do a lot for female representation in games, if the developers are willing.This is how a I feel about it.
Reincarnation is an important part of Zelda, and it gives them the freedom to whatever they want(with a few boundaries of course)while bringing back important characters.
They can make Link a dark haired Asian looking girl in an ancient West African village, and it could still be Link.
As long as she has the hero's tunic, and his courageous spirit she's Link.
...I dealt with it, and I'm okay.Young girls always get the short end of the stick in these types of situations, man.
While I still don't think Link being a boy really mattered in either of those two, it goes to show that if it's not required then him being female in one game really shouldn't bother people.No, I'm not saying it had to be a male Link. I'm saying Link being a boy in several of the Legend of Zelda games influenced his character and his interactions in the game world. This is after the decision to have him be a boy was made. Similarly, if he was made a girl, then she would in turn be influenced by that decision. Because I believe gender has a noticeable influence on personality and on characterization if we're talking representation in media.
I am not saying he has to be a boy.
Although he has been a boy for so long in the series, I can see how a change would be considered drastic for some. It's like if Tomb Raider was made a man. I would feel strongly about that decision because I grew up with her being... well, her, among other things.
It's the gender of a fictional character no reason to be depressed.
Either way, I don't have any strong feelings on this issue. I still think being able to change gender would be neat though, especially since I think most games in the series wouldn't have been changed at all even if they had the option.
So many women have been wanting better representation and Nintendo toyed with them by instead of stopping the speculation immediately they decide to worsen it with their comments.
It's the gender of a fictional character no reason to be depressed.
No, the bigger the character, the bigger the opportunity. Link is enormous, and there are reasonable arguments for why his gender isn't hugely important. This is something a lot of people want. What's more, it would be attention getting. I don't think 'missed opportunity' is incorrect at all.
Let's get Nintendo to make Mario a girl!
Mario's gender isn't important anyway.
Oh, but he does have an established identity... as does Link. That might cause problems but whatever!
I'll disagree in this case since the creator made a comment supporting the speculation.
First, I'm all for androgynous characters. But there's always going to be more noticeably female traits compared to male. This Link looked like a woman and compared to all his other incarnations it's exactly why everyone was starting to think it was a new character or female version.
He has a ponytail, slimmer face and body, curves and uses a bow and arrow and yet people are reading into things? It's pretty obvious this design was done on purpose.
Him also after all of the blow up about the design decides to make a comment saying "I never said that was Link" is definitely feeding fans the idea it's a female or new character.
It's been explained why changing Mario is a hell of a lot different from changing Links gender.Let's get Nintendo to make Mario a girl!
Mario's gender isn't important anyway.
Oh, but he does have an established identity... as does Link. That might cause problems but whatever!
I feel like I'm about to state the obvious, but...
I sort of get it. People have a set idea of who Link is, and any change that violates their personal concept of the character seems wrong. The crux of the disagreement here is whether Link's gender is essential. I think the games themselves have shown us that it's not. Although the various Links have always been male, their personalities and actions don't rely on that as a core principle. Ultimately characters appeal to different people for different reasons. It seems that for some players the idea of Link as a male hero is very important. More important than his heroic qualities, the way he dresses, and many of the other things that make the character recognizable.
That's the thing. It's like Assassin's Creed. The protagonists are related by bloodline, not gender. (Ironically, AC's protagonists are traditionally male too.)
I guess I don't understand why they don't just include a gender select option for Link. His gender has never been a part of the story. It's just that the Save the Princess trope usually involves a man saving a woman. If Link is supposed to represent the player, they should let players choose to be a female Link. But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen because Nintendo.
Aang and Korra are both etablished characters with a personality. Link has enough physical traits to become recognizable but doesn't have much of a personality allowing the player to inject their own personality into him. This is also why Link is usually depicted as having some feminine qualities so that girls can just as easily "become Link" as boys.Pretty much this. Like in a certain show with your avatar shows, is Korra not the Avatar because she's a girl unlike Aang had we not seen that the previous Avatars have been male or female? B-b-but Aang was a dude....
Would "Link" not be "Link" the Hero of Time if it were a girl since Link is "you" (as Aonuma himself says) and almost always a different character named Link.
I guess I don't understand why they don't just include a gender select option for Link. His gender has never been a part of the story. It's just that the Save the Princess trope usually involves a man saving a woman. If Link is supposed to represent the player, they should let players choose to be a female Link. But I'm not holding my breath for that to happen because Nintendo.
Oh, I'm aware! I hope that whole mess leads to positive changes in the next installment.Funny enough you bring up AC because there's that whole controversy going on right now too. I'm still blown away by the creators bullshit excuse for not having a female lead.
Why not just creating a new IP with a new bunch of characters?
Why do people think an etablished series needs to change in the way they want it instead accepting how the series works - or moving away from it.
Arguably, the strongest entities in the Zelda universe are the Goddesses, females.. Hylia also kicked ass in SS lore; lifting a massive chunk of Earth skywards while holding on her own against the incarnation of evil and his devilish armies
I guess examples such as those do not count and we all should focus on the narrative that Link = always male equals Females = weaksauce and not hero material.
I guess you are working under the assumption that Nintendo deliberately and maliciously wanting to disparage women in their games?
I mean, toyed with them. What a truly devilish term.
You're wrongMario can't be easily turned into a girl because:
The iconic aspects of his design are masculine(the mustache mainly)
He's almost always been the "same person" throughout his games
His name and franchise is called Mario, a male name
Link is the opposite of all these things
I wish Link was black for one game. Not for any sense of progress in gaming diversity, but from the shitstorm that would ensue.
Mario can't be easily turned into a girl because:
The iconic aspects of his design are masculine(the mustache mainly)
He's almost always been the "same person" throughout his games
His name and franchise is called Mario, a male name
Link is the opposite of all these things
If they ever make Link a female, just once, then they'll ruin the character. I mean, think of the dangerous precedent they would be setting.
I totally forgot about all those female goddesses that you get to play time and again.
Who's saying the series needs to change in the way they want?Why not just creating a new IP with a new bunch of characters?
Why do people think an etablished series needs to change in the way they want it instead of accepting how the series works - or moving away from it.
There was only some very minor speculation before Aonuma's comment. But that's not really relevant anyway is it?Even ignoring the gender speculations. There were already many discussions if the character shown in the trailer was Link in the first place because he didn't wear his green outfit.
Agreed, still fun to play devil's advocate though...Hahaha, I called this in the original thread, he was trollin'.
I never thought it even looks female, it's clearly a very young male.
Because people want to play a girl character in a Zelda game. A Zelda game. They don't want to be relegated to a spin-off, and they don't want to play something with the enormous shift in mechanics necessary to justify one.
To pretend they didn't mess with people is being disingenuous. They knew the female speculation was strong and developers know the industry struggles with female leads. Not only that but Nintendo has been a target of these criticism for a while now.I guess you are working under the assumption that Nintendo deliberately and maliciously wanting to disparage women in their games?
I mean, toyed with them. What a truly devilish term; it's like Aunoma is cackling madly behind the screen after he has been so successful in playing all those stupid women.
No matter how much you try and excuse his "joke" that doesn't change the fact that the context for his original comments were anything but one. He made the comment and when it happened there was no joke going on. He's clarified now so of course people are going to look back and say he was joking but at the time his comments were unfair and vague.So basically, exactly what I said. People assumed it was female based on a overanalyzed clip and what "have" to be female features. Not that it's just an androgynous male (which Link has been for a while, and is a popular character type in the country of origin), it MUST be female because we the viewers have deemed it so.
And again, all Aonuma (jokingly) said was that he didn't explicitly state it was Link. The whole "oh so it's a girl then!!!" only came about because again, people swore up and down that their view was the right one and everyone else was wrong.
To be clear, I'm not against a female main character in this series. But it seems like the ones charging at walls and being overtly aggressive towards others here are the ones who were trying to force the idea that Link was a girl in the first place, and I don't understand why. Disappointment sure I can get. But acting like it was a sure thing and being pissed off at the world that Link is what he always has been?
You're giving examples of sexual orientation, not their gender.Except it has. Especially in games like Ocarina of Time where you have Saria and Zora kind of fall in love with Link, but they realize that he's just their friend.
In almost every game, he does have a story if people bother to read. Most of the time, he's been characterized as an orphan who's mother died giving birth, a descendant of the old Knights of Hyrule who protect the royal family, etc. Even in Twilight Princess, Midna kind of falls in love with Link too, who's a bit too daft to realize.
Only people who want to invalidate Link's gender have said it has never really mattered, when it's always been present in games ie. Being bullied for Saria's love by another Kokiri boy, his grandmother putting him in the garb of th Hero of Time in Wind Waker to go and save his younger sister. The problem is, romance and sexuality have never been a key part of the series. So unless Link saves Zelda and they get married blah blah, his gender is invalidated.
Why not just creating a new IP with a new bunch of characters?
Why do people think an etablished series needs to change in the way they want it instead of accepting how the series works - or moving away from it.
To pretend they didn't mess with people is being disingenuous. They knew the female speculation was strong and developers know the industry struggles with female leads. Not only that but Nintendo has been a target of these criticism for a while now.
I'm not saying he's been planning to toy with women and has always had evil intentions but his comments and the way he handled this whole thing were shitty.
You're wrong
He can be turned into a girl!
It's MARIA
Somehow this works fine in Pokemon. Blue Oak is still going to be an asshole to you whether they were friends with you when you're a boy or a girl. Elm and the rest of New Bark Town still know you and have a history past the choose your character screen. Barry is still going to be best buds with Lucas or Dawn.You could do all those things with a female character. But by offering a toggle switch on the first screen, you're dulling that perception. Rather than being a natural part of the universe, this is a character the player has made that has been dropped into the world.
Games like Dark Souls, Skyrim, and Fallout all often start with the "stranger in a strange land" conceit for a reason. The player character can be anyone, often anything. Backstory doesn't work.
Additionally, there's the obvious fact that if a Zelda game did offer a female player character - it'd be a significant moment for the franchise. It's an opportunity to leverage the series' past, to talk about twisting these long-standing traditions. If you're catering to a game that can also be played as a male MC - all that goes out the window. And that's a pretty huge bummer.
I don't even know why everyone's so hung up on the "female Link" thing.
I mean, the basis of this rumor was the idea that it wasn't Link at all.
#TeamZelda