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[Crazymoogle]

128GB does just fine on my MBA. But I'm not using it for Video Editing or carrying large scale amounts of content. For developing mobile games, internet and office suite apps it's perfect.

(That being said, the sooner we move up the flash density ladder the better)

If the new Macbook had a Broadwell U chip instead then I could see the appeal, but with a Core M at that ridiculous price I struggle to imagine who this is aimed for.

Do you have a link to any Broadwell U 4.5w info? All of the chip specs I can find are for the 15w TDP chips, which means adding a fan. The only new 4.5w chips I could google were part of the Skylake schedule.

As far as who it's aimed at, it seems to me that the NMB is nothing particularly secret. They want a general purpose, slim Macbook. An iPad with a keyboard, basically. It will be perfect for light use and any sort of travel. There's a premium, as with all new Apple products, but it does look like this will settle in as the consumer main, with the RMBP as the power option. The MBA only hangs in there because it has a unique performance/battery profile that none of the other products can match (yet).

In any case I agree it's a little half baked. Skylake and an extra USB port would go a long way to settle it in as a mainline device. For mixed mode gamers, I guess we wait on the next set of MBP updates. :/

 

[ScepticMatt]

But for the design though. And plus, all the processing power it has and the exclusivity of OS X. I will certainly snag this.

hahaha

I just watched the keynote, hollyfuck. Those people screaming and clapping for every small thing like its some holly grail. Its like journalist are not even trying to hide it now, next time they all should just bend over.

You must be new to apple keynotes.

Had they made it with 4gigs, and 128GB, I think its possible they might do $999. Maybe....

Well, extra 4 gigs of ram and 128 GB SSD should cost $100, not $300

CPU throttling on this is going to be insane

Core M's have 4.5W Thermal Design Power, so it's not like they ever get hot.

The Apple logo doesn't glow? Count me out of the new MacBooks.

One thing that I can say is I'm glad they're getting rid of the glowing logoy

Why did Apple take it out, its a staple of their design. Its like taking the swosh out of a pair of Nike's :\

It's not like they would have space for a LED there with their focus on thinness above all else.

 

[entremet]

I was hoping for their new Displays. My Tbolt display is getting a old especially with the retina enhancements to Yosemite.

 

[Hatty]

I don't understand why people are so upset really. You're complaining about a product that isn't for you. They still sell the pros and the airs just buy those

 

[dracula_x]

I know... I was pointing out that companies like to have small SSDs to keep costs down.

But the Mac hd sizes are too small... Especially when they encourage backing up the iDevices on the laptop. It's silly when the iPhone is 64gb and the laptop is 128gb.

Yep, they should start from 256gb.

It's maybe ok for new MacBook, because it's a Cloud/Wireless-centric device. But for MacBook Air and Pro – not so much.

 

[biggersmaller]

With all the negative reviews and message board reactions, the fact remains Apple has always been about design first, functionality second. This goes back to the original Macintosh development and the deliberate anti-expandability approach, dropping 3.5" floppy drives from the original iMac, to shipping with a single-click mouse.

People buy Apple products for its beautiful design. I know I'm a fan of that approach and (currently) millions agree. Paying extra for looks may seem absurdly illogical to many, but for most this product has all the functionality they need.

 

[Theonik]

This is something I absolutely cannot understand with Apple. Why would you sell a 16 GB iPhone in 2015, especially when you don't have expandable internal storage?

I dread the idea of juggling some larger applications with that phone and some media.

So they can say 'starting at $199' but the 16GB SKU is pretty popular. So they decided to kill the 32GB instead so now you get 16, 64 and 128. Should have bumped the lowest SKU to 32GB imo but apple doesn't care. Also with 16GB you get almost no space once you add the space the OS reserves. People needed to reserve 5GB when they upgraded to iOS8 so they basically had to use their PC to do the upgrade or basically empty their phone.

It's not like they would have space for a LED there with their focus on thinness above all else.

The MacBook doesn't have an LED for the glowing logo. It is a window in the back of the display. So it is lit by your display backlight. At the same time if you use a Mac against the sun or another bright light the logo will shine through to your display.

 

[MercuryLS]

He's talking about the retina 13" I think.

The MacBook Pro (non-retina) comes with a 500GB HD. It's also much more user-upgradeable.

But it boggles my mind too. Guess people like the storage and price? Not to mention, it just took a massive price hike in our region due to exchange rate. It's like super expensive now.

The price hikes on macbooks in Canada at crazy, I've got a 2013 rMBP that I got for $1350 at the time no tax. If I were to sell it I think I could make a profit.

 

[Kyoufu]

128GB does just fine on my MBA. But I'm not using it for Video Editing or carrying large scale amounts of content. For developing mobile games, internet and office suite apps it's perfect.

(That being said, the sooner we move up the flash density ladder the better)



Do you have a link to any Broadwell U 4.5w info? All of the chip specs I can find are for the 15w TDP chips, which means adding a fan. The only new 4.5w chips I could google were part of the Skylake schedule.

As far as who it's aimed at, it seems to me that the NMB is nothing particularly secret. They want a general purpose, slim Macbook. An iPad with a keyboard, basically. It will be perfect for light use and any sort of travel. There's a premium, as with all new Apple products, but it does look like this will settle in as the consumer main, with the RMBP as the power option. The MBA only hangs in there because it has a unique performance/battery profile that none of the other products can match (yet).

In any case I agree it's a little half baked. Skylake and an extra USB port would go a long way to settle it in as a mainline device. For mixed mode gamers, I guess we wait on the next set of MBP updates. :/

Adding a single fan for a Broadwell U chip should be in their best interests as opposed to a fan-less Core M system. The SP3 with its single fan performs very well and that's with a Haswell chip. Apple and other manufacturers should be aiming for that level of hardware rather than going fan-less as it means taking a big hit in performance (at least for now) which just isn't worth the $1200+ asking price. If this were a low/mid tier priced product then this would be a different conversation.

Hopefully Skylake can make fan-less systems viable for anyone that intends on using their device for more than the basic of tasks, but I suspect we'll have to wait a few years for the tech to reach that point.

 

[Two Words]

This discussion has happened before and will happen again.

If Apple listened to every idiot out there we would still have serial ports, a bluray drive, IR port, the list goes on.

The people who might buy this computer may not care about those things.

not care about USB?

 

[VPhys]

That bezel though. Dell really trumped them on the display.


I think I will wait for gen 2 and stick with my 13" pro retina.

 

[MercuryLS]

not care about USB?

This laptop is aimed at people that have really low wired I/O usage and prioritize portability. Its like an iPad with a proper desktop OS and a proper integrated keyboard and trackpad. For people that need the ports there's the Pro. Think about a college student that uses a laptop for writing essays and doing work and taking their laptop everywhere.

The usage of type c will become less of a problem as everything moves to it, the need for a dongle will lessen.

This product will make more sense to the masses in a dew years when the power increases, the price comes down and type c becomes the standard I/O for everything.

 

[Theonik]

Yep, they should start from 256gb.

It's maybe ok for new MacBook, because it's a Cloud/Wireless-centric device. But for MacBook Air and Pro – not so much.

FYI the new Mac starts 256GB of space It's only the old lines that have been left with a starting SKU at 128GB while they bumped the prices across the board to make the new Mac look more appealing. Even the 15" pro that didn't get bumped in specs was pricebumped. As for what space is acceptable? All Macs are capable of being used in this way. It's really not an argument.
The new Mac has it worse though since with its one port and new formfactor it would be a pain to use an external drive with it. My 13" 2013 Air drops from 12hrs to 6-9 with an external drive plugged in so this with a 9hr browser life would probably drain in a few hours with the added USB draw without an easy option to charge at the same time.

 

[immortal-joe]

I am now dreading the next Retina MBPs, especially since I'm eyeing them as my next upgrade (currently using first gen model).

 

[MercuryLS]

I am now dreading the next Retina MBPs, especially since I'm eyeing them as my next upgrade (currently using first gen model).

I honestly don't think that they will get rid of the ports on the Pro, I'd anything they'll add type c and remove thunderbolt.

 

[Two Words]

This laptop is aimed at people that have really low wired I/O usage and prioritize portability. Its like an iPad with a proper desktop OS and a proper integrated keyboard and trackpad. For people that need the ports there's the Pro. Think about a college student that uses a laptop for writing essays and doing work and taking their laptop everywhere.

The usage of type c will become less of a problem as everything moves to it, the need for a dongle will lessen.

This product will make more sense to the masses in a dew years when the power increases, the price comes down and type c becomes the standard I/O for everything.

Okay, well it sucks now, USB is still necrssary and that's what im saying.

 

[Kyoufu]

This laptop is aimed at people that have really low wired I/O usage and prioritize portability. Its like an iPad with a proper desktop OS and a proper integrated keyboard and trackpad. For people that need the ports there's the Pro. Think about a college student that uses a laptop for writing essays and doing work and taking their laptop everywhere.

The usage of type c will become less of a problem as everything moves to it, the need for a dongle will lessen.

This product will make more sense to the masses in a dew years when the power increases, the price comes down and type c becomes the standard I/O for everything.

I think a college student would be much better off with a system capable of note taking. SP3 is pretty much the perfect laptop in that regard, which is why it's disappointing to see Apple not bring a competitor to the Surface.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

This laptop is aimed at people that have really low wired I/O usage and prioritize portability. Its like an iPad with a proper desktop OS and a proper integrated keyboard and trackpad. For people that need the ports there's the Pro. Think about a college student that uses a laptop for writing essays and doing work and taking their laptop everywhere.

The usage of type c will become less of a problem as everything moves to it, the need for a dongle will lessen.

This product will make more sense to the masses in a dew years when the power increases, the price comes down and type c becomes the standard I/O for everything.

Umm, so you guys seem to be admitting this is a bad product then and will only be viable years down the road. That's not forward thinking, that's stupidity. Other people don't release products that don't fill a market hoping that years down the road maybe they can edit and change their original design so much that people start to want it. There's no gotcha moment if 3 years from now it becomes a good notebook, it's being released today.

 

[entremet]

Okay, well it sucks now, USB is still necrssary and that's what im saying.

A few people already mentioned in the thread that they don't use USB. These are who this type of notebook is aimed at.

If you want USB you have three other options available for Apple's notebook line.

 

[Burger]

not care about USB?

It does have USB, just not the old style connector. So continues the march of progress.

Apple doesn't seem bothered that you can't connect your printer or hdd or whatever. They would rather you compromise by purchasing a new usb cable than compromise what they think their computer should be.

If you don't like it, buy a different computer.

 

[entremet]

It does have USB, just not the old style connector. So continues the march of progress.

Apple doesn't seem bothered that you can't connect your printer or hdd or whatever. They would rather you compromise by purchasing a new usb cable than compromise what they think their computer should be.

If you don't like it, buy a different computer.

Printers are wireless these days as well and have been for ages.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

This laptop is aimed at people that have really low wired I/O usage and prioritize portability. Its like an iPad with a proper desktop OS and a proper integrated keyboard and trackpad. For people that need the ports there's the Pro. Think about a college student that uses a laptop for writing essays and doing work and taking their laptop everywhere.

The usage of type c will become less of a problem as everything moves to it, the need for a dongle will lessen.

This product will make more sense to the masses in a dew years when the power increases, the price comes down and type c becomes the standard I/O for everything.

a college student writing essays should spend like $400 max

 

[MercuryLS]

Umm, so you guys seem to be admitting this is a bad product then and will only be viable years down the road. That's not forward thinking, that's stupidity. Other people don't release products that don't fill a market hoping that years down the road maybe they can edit and change their original design so much that people start to want it. There's no gotcha moment if 3 years from now it becomes a good notebook, it's being released today.

Its exactly what apple did with the Airs. It was a niche product that people made fun of now it's the standard.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

It does have USB, just not the old style connector. So continues the march of progress.

Apple doesn't seem bothered that you can't connect your printer or hdd or whatever. They would rather you compromise by purchasing a new usb cable than compromise what they think their computer should be.

If you don't like it, buy a different computer.

It really doesn't have a USB though. It's using it for charging so it essentially doesn't have one, THAT'S why people are mad. If you had a magsafe and a single port then 99% of the people complaining stop complaining.

Its exactly what apple did with the Airs. It was a niche product that people made fun of now it's the standard.

Again, so you're admitting this is also a terrible product then. And that's a moronic way to do business by releasing terrible products in hopes you can tweak it enough over the years to make it finally a good product. Again, that's not forward thinking or setting the standard, that is literally just pissing away money.

 

[Ayumi]

Now my MBP-R is gonna feel more and more like a brick. I wonder how much I could sell it for...

 

[DarkFlow]

Now my MBP-R is gonna feel more and more like a brick. I wonder how much I could sell it for...

Why would you downgrade?

 

[dallow_bg]

It really doesn't have a USB though. It's using it for charging so it essentially doesn't have one, THAT'S why people are mad. If you had a magsafe and a single port then 99% of the people complaining stop complaining.

If you absolutely need it, one adapter solves that issue. You're already going to have something plugged in so a hub or y-adapter won't be much of an issue. Like it was said, it's aimed at people with minimal I/O usage.

 

[Condom]

Its exactly what apple did with the Airs. It was a niche product that people made fun of now it's the standard.

It's not the standard but ok.

Arguably, the new standard will be the Surface-esque hybrids. True innovation.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

One adapter solves that issue. You're already going to have something plugged in so a hub or y-adapter won't be much of an issue. Like it was said, it's aimed at people with minimal I/O usage.

It's more aimed at people with no I/O usage with the design.

 

[entremet]

It really doesn't have a USB though. It's using it for charging so it essentially doesn't have one, THAT'S why people are mad. If you had a magsafe and a single port then 99% of the people complaining stop complaining.



Again, so you're admitting this is also a terrible product then. And that's a moronic way to do business by releasing terrible products in hopes you can tweak it enough over the years to make it finally a good product. Again, that's not forward thinking or setting the standard, that is literally just pissing away money.

Depends on your priorities. The MBP line is fine for me and I won't be jumping in with this 1st generation product, some will.

And Apple can afford these gambles with their huge warchest. But this is obviously a luxury ultraportable notebook. It's not for everyone.

If you want more horsepower, look at the other lines. The original iPad was also under specced for many. Specs/features alone has never been Apple's MO.

 

[Burger]

It really doesn't have a USB though. It's using it for charging so it essentially doesn't have one, THAT'S why people are mad. If you had a magsafe and a single port then 99% of the people complaining stop complaining.

The battery lasts a day though. How many times are you going to be in the situation where you have 5% battery and need to connect a USB drive for an hour?

The answer is not enough that Apple thought it needed 2 connectors.

Also people are mad. Hilarious.

 

[Two Words]

A few people already mentioned in the thread that they don't use USB. These are who this type of notebook is aimed at.

If you want USB you have three other options available for Apple's notebook line.

The problem is this design philosophy infecting their other models in time.

 

[entremet]

The problem is this design philosophy infecting their other models in time.

That's a huge jump.

Apple has always had differentiated notebook lines. A consumer line and pro line. This third pillar seems to be aimed at even a higher end.

When that happens, complain away. But I don't see it happening.

 

[DarkFlow]

That's a huge jump.

Apple has always had differentiated notebook lines. A consumer line and pro line. This third pillar seems to be aimed at even a higher end.

When that happens, complain away. But I don't see it happening.

We literally have people comparing this to when apple switched to USB and got rid of DVD drives, but now this one won't follow that trend... People are well of how Apple does things by now, its not a stretch to see them doing this to other lines.

 

[corn_fest]

So how long before Thunderbolt and Lightning are both replaced by USB-C?
Port convergence is a good thing in the long run, but it does seem like a bit of a slap in the face after they just finished pushing everyone towards their proprietary(-ish) standards.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Umm, so you guys seem to be admitting this is a bad product then and will only be viable years down the road. That's not forward thinking, that's stupidity. Other people don't release products that don't fill a market hoping that years down the road maybe they can edit and change their original design so much that people start to want it. There's no gotcha moment if 3 years from now it becomes a good notebook, it's being released today.

Imagine you're a company and you have a new product, but you have not yet been able to ramp up supply chain control, secure enough components for mass-market production, or smoothed out the kinks in the product itself. Is it possible that you would choose to launch the product now, at a higher price (and thus with less appeal to a mass market audience) in order to gradually scale up production to achieve economies of scale to then reduce price later while maintaining your margin? In the mean time, you get better control of your supply chain, have better production control, and get the chance to fix the problems with the product before you go mass market?

Okay, now imagine you're a company and you make a product with ten components. You make six of those components yourself and get four somewhere else. Two of your external partners are ready for your new product launch, but two of your external partners are going to take another year or two to be really ready at the level you want them. Is it possible that rather than waiting two years for those external partners, you'd make due with the best available right now in order to ramp up the production of the rest of your components, get economies of scale, get an advertising head-start and brand awareness, and then be able to wow consumers with a price drop and better quality components when your external partners are finally ready?

Because these scenarios both seem to apply to the 2009-vintage MacBook Air (trying to lock down SSD supply, testing new construction methods, processors and batteries not yet ready for the bigtime; launched product at a massive price premium to soak customers who aren't price conscious, use those as leverage to be able to get into mass production so that a few years later you can drop prices and release a better product), the initial retina screen MacBook Pros (price premium was enormous, waiting a year to spread to other models allowed economies of scale, iteration on product line, and time for the software side of things to improve support), the iPhone 2G (no app store, high upfront price, no time to negotiate deals with carriers, generally poor components), the iPad 1 (battery miniaturization not yet ready, need to get digitizer screens up to speed, need to build operating system and application support), and now this. I had a friend buy the initial rMBP, at something like a $800 price premium over the same laptop without the retina screen. Almost no software supported it, performance sucked. Totally bad buy on his part.

I wouldn't buy this product for a few reasons. The battery life retrograding versus the MBA is unfortunate. The processor seems inadequate. I don't yet have any USB-C devices. And I still use USB/the SD slot enough to not want to drop down to the single port. Also I don't want to pay the price premium for the high resolution screen. And I'd love for someone who is not me to test the new keyboard and trackpad designs rather than guinea pigging it myself. It's a miss for me, in other words. Not quite as radically a miss as the first MBA, whose price premium was just crazy. I don't see it having much mass-market value beyond the "new shiny" factor, and I don't think there's many people for whom this is the best product in Apple's lineup for their needs.

... but I do want a laptop with no fan, that weighs even less that my current laptop, that is even smaller, with a smaller power brick. So I am optimistic that in next year or the year after's refresh, when they get prices under control enough to get the price down $100-200, improve the processor, keep iterating on battery and energy efficiency, and then discontinue (or begin to phase out) the MacBook Air line, this is probably the product line that will do it. And I don't think the narrative is "Apple fucks up their first try at everything and I have no idea how they keep doing that", I think the narrative is that these weird first-gen products are part of their production process.

 

[bionic77]

So how long before Thunderbolt and Lightning are both replaced by USB-C?
Port convergence is a good thing in the long run, but it does seem like a bit of a slap in the face after they just finished pushing everyone towards their proprietary(-ish) standards.

I think TB is still faster than this (not sure about that) but this is superior to lightening so they should switch to this.

 

[jts]

Apple should've thrown a type-C at the MBPr while they were at it.

Makes me think Type-C will only make it to all new, thinner models. Think MacBook, but not tapered.

I wouldn't buy a laptop without that port at this point.

 

[Two Words]

where is this huge audience that is so dissatisfied with the size and weight of the MBA that they will sacrifice all ports, a significant amount of power, and pay more just to shave off a few millimeters and go from 2.38 lbs to 2 lbs? When the MBA first released, it had issues. But at the very least, it was a HUGE change in size and weight. Its choice of form over function had clear pros with its cons. The new MacBook is marginally thinner and lighter than the current MBA and still has a ton of cons.

That's a huge jump.

Apple has always had differentiated notebook lines. A consumer line and pro line. This third pillar seems to be aimed at even a higher end.

When that happens, complain away. But I don't see it happening.

The Air's design philosophy was used on the MBPS just a few years after the Air released. What's different between the Air besides size and power?

 

[entremet]

We literally have people comparing this to when apple switched to USB and got rid of DVD drives, but now this one won't follow that trend... People are well of how Apple does things by now, its not a stretch to see them doing this to other lines.

I'm talking about one port only. Not USB-C. Everything will be USB-C eventually anyway.

It's progress.

where is this huge audience that is so dissatisfied with the size and weight of the MBA that they will sacrifice all ports, a significant amount of power, and pay more just to shave off a few millimeters and go from 2.38 lbs to 2 lbs? When the MBA first released, it had issues. But at the very least, it was a HUGE change in size and weight. Its choice of form over function had clear pros with its cons. The new MacBook is marginally thinner and lighter than the current MBA and still has a ton of cons.



The Air's design philosophy was used on the MBPS just a few years after the Air released. What's different between the Air besides size and power?

That's the aesthetic. It still has ports.

I can see these replace the Airs in time.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

wow, that thing is thin... I think i'll just settle for the previous gen, this might be a touch too delicate for my rough use

 

[Ayumi]

Why would you downgrade?

Nah, I wouldn't. :3

 

[MercuryLS]

good stuff

I agree with everything you said. The new Macbook looks like a great foundation for future iterations. I sincerely thank the early adopters for buying this and helping me getting a better future generation version.

 

[Stumpokapow]

where is this huge audience that is so dissatisfied with the size and weight of the MBA that they will sacrifice all ports, a significant amount of power, and pay more just to shave off a few millimeters and go from 2.38 lbs to 2 lbs? When the MBA first released, it had issues. But at the very least, it was a HUGE change in size and weight. Its choice of form over function had clear pros with its cons. The new MacBook is marginally thinner and lighter than the current MBA and still has a ton of cons.

I'm dissatisfied with the size and weight of my MBA. I'm not willing to do all those things (except maybe sacrifice the ports--if the price was right and the processor didn't have issues, I'd probably be willing to suffer through the port situation as an awkward transition phase).

Like, when I look at my use of ports on my MBA, what I get is:
- Getting photos off our DSLR with the SD card slot (maybe once every two weeks) -> alternative: our next DSLR body will almost certainly have wifi / I think there's probably a USB plug for the camera / Use one of those awful looking USB SD card readers / Do photo handling on desktop. Not ideal.
- Storing movies for extended vacations (a few times a year) -> alternative: copy the files directly to the laptop (we don't end up watching most of them anyway) / increasingly, Netflix. You can get Wifi in a lot more places than you could 3-4 years ago. Not quite there yet, but in a few years. This is a minimal inconvenience. I think the annoying thing here would be having to buy the USB-C-to-old-USB dongle. I'm definitely going to consider getting a USB-C port in my next desktop to help mitigate this, so if I ever buy a USB stick again, I'll get something USB-C based.
- Charging my phone occasionally -> alternative: Plugging phone directly into wall, which is what I do anyway. Actually in the middle of upgrading my place's power outlets to have USB ports. This is not an inconvenience at all, really.
- Odd technical jobs like jailbreaking/rooting people's phones, provisioning media devices, making boot disks for tech support stuff. This is a medium inconvenience. I do it fairly rarely, but when I do, I want to do it.

I don't think these are hurdles I couldn't overcome in a year or two. I mean, ideally the MB would have two USB ports somehow, but I think in terms of compromises, this is not one that's likely to impact me much. For me, probably about the same level of impact as the ethernet or optical sacrifices in 2011 or so when the MBA first got competitive.

Again, the processor thing and the price premium and (although you didn't mention it) the reduced battery life are deal-breakers, collectively, for me. But if they can get those under control, the weight and size are a benefit to me. I had a 17" 11 pound laptop circa 2003, then an iBook, then a Macbook, then a loaner 15" MBP (ugh, goliath), now the MBA. Bring on smaller and lighter.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Depends on your priorities. The MBP line is fine for me and I won't be jumping in with this 1st generation product, some will.

And Apple can afford these gambles with their huge warchest. But this is obviously a luxury ultraportable notebook. It's not for everyone.

If you want more horsepower, look at the other lines. The original iPad was also under specced for many. Specs/features alone has never been Apple's MO.

At no point have I ever said they don't physically have the money to do this. Don't put words in my mouth.

Imagine you're a company and you have a new product, but you have not yet been able to ramp up supply chain control, secure enough components for mass-market production, or smoothed out the kinks in the product itself. Is it possible that you would choose to launch the product now, at a higher price (and thus with less appeal to a mass market audience) in order to gradually scale up production to achieve economies of scale to then reduce price later while maintaining your margin? In the mean time, you get better control of your supply chain, have better production control, and get the chance to fix the problems with the product before you go mass market?

Okay, now imagine you're a company and you make a product with ten components. You make six of those components yourself and get four somewhere else. Two of your external partners are ready for your new product launch, but two of your external partners are going to take another year or two to be really ready at the level you want them. Is it possible that rather than waiting two years for those external partners, you'd make due with the best available right now in order to ramp up the production of the rest of your components, get economies of scale, get an advertising head-start and brand awareness, and then be able to wow consumers with a price drop and better quality components when your external partners are finally ready?

Because these scenarios both seem to apply to the 2009-vintage MacBook Air (trying to lock down SSD supply, testing new construction methods, processors and batteries not yet ready for the bigtime; launched product at a massive price premium to soak customers who aren't price conscious, use those as leverage to be able to get into mass production so that a few years later you can drop prices and release a better product), the initial retina screen MacBook Pros (price premium was enormous, waiting a year to spread to other models allowed economies of scale, iteration on product line, and time for the software side of things to improve support), the iPhone 2G (no app store, high upfront price, no time to negotiate deals with carriers, generally poor components), the iPad 1 (battery miniaturization not yet ready, need to get digitizer screens up to speed, need to build operating system and application support), and now this. I had a friend buy the initial rMBP, at something like a $800 price premium over the same laptop without the retina screen. Almost no software supported it, performance sucked. Totally bad buy on his part.

I wouldn't buy this product for a few reasons. The battery life retrograding versus the MBA is unfortunate. The processor seems inadequate. I don't yet have any USB-C devices. And I still use USB/the SD slot enough to not want to drop down to the single port. Also I don't want to pay the price premium for the high resolution screen. And I'd love for someone who is not me to test the new keyboard and trackpad designs rather than guinea pigging it myself. It's a miss for me, in other words. Not quite as radically a miss as the first MBA, whose price premium was just crazy. I don't see it having much mass-market value beyond the "new shiny" factor, and I don't think there's many people for whom this is the best product in Apple's lineup for their needs.

... but I do want a laptop with no fan, that weighs even less that my current laptop, that is even smaller, with a smaller power brick. So I am optimistic that in next year or the year after's refresh, when they get prices under control enough to get the price down $100-200, improve the processor, keep iterating on battery and energy efficiency, and then discontinue (or begin to phase out) the MacBook Air line, this is probably the product line that will do it. And I don't think the narrative is "Apple fucks up their first try at everything and I have no idea how they keep doing that", I think the narrative is that these weird first-gen products are part of their production process.

I know, and I was thinking of the supply chain when posting it but I feel like I can make a couple assumptions. One of which is, I'm sure Apple can get suppliers to ramp up supply on something they barely produce or have in prototype. Apple has done that throughout it's entire history of existing and with the size that Apple has grown to, that power has increased, not diminished so that shouldn't be an actual problem.

This is very subjective so it's hard to argue since there's not necessarily a right answer but I see this as being the biggest duds by far in the evolutions you've given (IPhone/MacBook Air). The reason is, this isn't as different as those two products were and this taking multiple steps backwards (The steps backwards are some of the things you already alluded to) to just shave a small amount off their design. The gap from original MacBook to the MacBook air that replace it was enormous. Although, it was gimped in some ways, it changed how laptops were designed. It showed how you shave off so much of the ugly plastic to get to an air. This design, although thinner is not that same leap.

I feel similarly with the iPhone, that was a huge leap from what we were experiencing from a phone so any short comings with that are very different than the short comings in the relaunched macbook. I also feel back then they had much much more to prove with suppliers so that "proof of concept" stage was much more needed (if it ever was) vs. Apple today.

 

[entremet]

At no point have I ever said they don't physically have the money to do this. Don't put words in my mouth.


I know, and I was thinking of the supply chain when posting it but I feel like I can make a couple assumptions. One of which is, I'm sure Apple can get suppliers to ramp up supply on something they barely produce or have in prototype. Apple has done that throughout it's entire history of existing and with the size that Apple has grown to, that power has increased, not diminished so that shouldn't be an actual problem.

This is very subjective so it's hard to argue since there's not necessarily a right answer but I see this as being the biggest duds by far in the evolutions you've given (IPhone/MacBook Air). The reason is, this isn't as different as those two products were and this taking multiple steps backwards (The steps backwards are some of the things you already alluded to) to just shave a small amount off their design. The gap from original MacBook to the MacBook air that replace it was enormous. Although, it was gimped in some ways, it changed how laptops were designed. It showed how you shave off so much of the ugly plastic to get to an air. This design, although thinner is not that same leap.

I feel similarly with the iPhone, that was a huge leap from what we were experiencing from a phone so any short comings with that are very different than the short comings in the relaunched macbook. I also feel back then they had much much more to prove with suppliers so that "proof of concept" stage was much more needed (if it ever was) vs. Apple today.

You said it was a waste of money.

Were you talking about the consumer's perspective? I could't parse if you meant consumers or Apple.

The Macbook line is long term project. It's obvious.

 

[Theonik]

You said it was a waste of money.

Were you talking about the consumer's perspective? I could't parse if you meant consumers or Apple.

The Macbook line is long term project. It's obvious.

It's a waste of money because the benefit of releasing these products before they are feasible is debatable.

 

[entremet]

It's a waste of money because the benefit of releasing these products before they are feasible is debatable.

Stump already articulated why that decision may have been made.

Whether it's feasible depends on the consumer reaction.

 

[numble]

I know, and I was thinking of the supply chain when posting it but I feel like I can make a couple assumptions. One of which is, I'm sure Apple can get suppliers to ramp up supply on something they barely produce or have in prototype. Apple has done that throughout it's entire history of existing and with the size that Apple has grown to, that power has increased, not diminished so that shouldn't be an actual problem.

I don't see this. We continue to see things recycled from higher margin items into the lower margin items. TouchID sensors and cameras come later to the iPad, same with laminated screens and retina screens. We saw them fail to obtain sapphire screens, and they failed to deliver enough iPhones to meet demand at the first 2 quarters again. Now you want to talk about ramping up supply for MacBook components, when Apple sells more iPhones in 1 month than they sell MacBooks in an entire year?

 

[Theonik]

Stump already articulated why that decision may have been made.

Whether it's feasible depends on the consumer reaction.

What stump articulated is reasons why he would consider purchasing the product when the technology is there. The problem is they are not releasing this product in 2016/17. They are releasing in 2015.