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Apple has counter-sued Epic for commision theft

DonJuanSchlong

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Jul 15, 2020
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Didn't open the link but it's probably some lame fuck trying to make a quick buck on fresh hot 'breaking news'.
Fuck that guy too. And his cat
Ignorant people stay ignorant because of that exact mentality. "That guy" fights against anti consumer laws and fights for RIGHT TO REPAIR. Imagine being a consumer like yourself, and saying fuck your own rights, as a consumer?

Real genius huh?




 

Tarkus98

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Feb 8, 2018
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Epic needs to pull the fuck out right now to avoid further embarrassment and cash needlessly lost. Apple has called their bluff. Don’t care if they are backed by Tencent or god, Epic won’t win this lawsuit as it stands today.
 

DonJuanSchlong

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Jul 15, 2020
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Having Google and Apple getting as far away as possible from Videogames could be the best thing to come out of this.
There's a reason they are the biggest spenders on micro transactions. Please keep them TF away!
 

aries_71

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Aug 26, 2007
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The real problem with this Epic strategy is that is going to solidify Apple’ s monopoly for good. Dumb move, zero intelligence.
 

ReBurn

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Apple lawyers well full savage here it's well worth reading in it's whole



This part really needs to repeated because it shows whole hypocrisy of Epic behaviour

There is nothing anticompetitive about charging a commission for others to use one’s service. Many platforms—including Epic’s own app marketplace and Unreal Engine—do just that.
The anticompetitive part is Apple not allowing any other app content delivery services to compete on the ios platform, not the fact that they charge a commission to access their platform. The fact that there are no options besides Apple's App Store means that developers have no choice but to pay whatever commission Apple charges or not publish their apps on the platform at all.

As far as Epic goes there are other game engine options that developers can use to build games besides Unreal Engine and developers can publish their PC games on other marketplaces. It's hard to see how the no u accusation is valid here. There is no hypocrisy when there's no real comparison.

It feels a lot like Epic is about to make a push to try to put a version of their app store on iOS that they can use to sell iOS apps or add on content and charge a lower commission than Apple. Apple is absolutely going to look like the bad guy for fighting to not allow competition on their closed platform.
 

V4skunk

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Nov 20, 2018
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Apple and Epic are cancer.
I hope they both waste hundreds of millions of £ in court battles.
 

MrFunSocks

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Jul 9, 2020
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The anticompetitive part is Apple not allowing any other app content delivery services to compete on the ios platform, not the fact that they charge a commission to access their platform. The fact that there are no options besides Apple's App Store means that developers have no choice but to pay whatever commission Apple charges or not publish their apps on the platform at all.

As far as Epic goes there are other game engine options that developers can use to build games besides Unreal Engine and developers can publish their PC games on other marketplaces. It's hard to see how the no u accusation is valid here. There is no hypocrisy when there's no real comparison.

It feels a lot like Epic is about to make a push to try to put a version of their app store on iOS that they can use to sell iOS apps or add on content and charge a lower commission than Apple. Apple is absolutely going to look like the bad guy for fighting to not allow competition on their closed platform.
Should McDonalds have to let Burger King sell their burgers in every McDonalds store, where the burger king employees use the McDonalds owned and maintained equipment, and BK don't have to give McDonalds any money whatsoever? Does that sound fair?
 
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Chittagong

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It seems that the success of Fortnite made Sweeney delusional enough to think he could dictate terms to Apple. It was seemingly unthinkable to him that Apple could afford to kick out something as popular as Fortnite.
 

420bits

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Didn't open the link but it's probably some lame fuck trying to make a quick buck on fresh hot 'breaking news'.
Fuck that guy too. And his cat
Quite the opposite, that guy is a strong advocate on repairing hardware and shits on apple for their anticonsumer BS when it comes to repairs (Apples stance is pretty much, YOU are not allowed to repair our hardware)

Example: MAC is broken, Apple want 1500 dollars to repair it for no reason or just tells you to buy a new one.
That guy: I've replaced the broken chip that will be 50 dollars.
 

Panajev2001a

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Jun 7, 2004
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Should McDonalds have to let Burger King sell their burgers in every McDonalds store, where the burger king employees use the McDonalds owned and maintained equipment, and BK don't have to give McDonalds any money whatsoever? Does that sound fair?
So if on PC MS banned/did not allow any and all app like Steam, EGS, EA Access, etc... and any app and game not installed through the Windows Store you would be happy and cheering? I guess you would...
 

A.Romero

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I enjoyed reading that very much.

I don't get why some people have a hard time understanding this: is not about Apple having more money or better lawyers: they are simply right. Epic has no reasonable angle. They thought Apple would be happy to get any money at all but now they have discovered that Apple is willing to lose a lot of money to keep making a lot of money.

Apple built the platform, the hardware, the whole ecosystem. They created a new way to do business and people ate it up. They don't even make the best phones any more and still people love their products. They have the right to decide how to monetize it. Why would they create a new platform and just open it up for whatever other store that has not contributed anything to what iOS is?

Users and developers that want to have other options can have Android and make all their wishes come true. I use android, for example. It's been a while since I sideloaded anything but it's nice to have the option.

That said, Apple is very wrong in not allowing users repair their own computers. But that's another issue. This is not about the consumer at all. This is abour Apple profiting from stuff they built and an asshole who thought himself much bigger than what he really is.

I don't like Apple but I dislike stupidity even more.
 

The Shift

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Sep 6, 2009
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Denis Dyack laughs.

How's that fuckin' karma sandwich taste Tim?
 
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Al3x1s

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Nov 24, 2018
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So if on PC MS banned/did not allow any and all app like Steam, EGS, EA Access, etc... and any app and game not installed through the Windows Store you would be happy and cheering? I guess you would...
It's not in the original terms, it's not how the OS got popular to begin with. Apple's idevices got popular by being Apple's vision exactly and haven't changed, it's apparently what a segment of consumers want compared to more open platforms like Android. If you don't want that, you don't buy an Apple device, it's as simple as that, there are alternatives. MS is free to try to make Windows 11 a closed ecosystem, and at that point it's most definite it will BOMB (just as they tried with Windows 10 S, it too bombed, so hard you forgot they tried this and the problem wasn't any lawsuit but the actual market not wanting it) and they will backpedal as people stick with 10, move to Linux or other OS that get a new lease of life by this development, and/or have legitimate lawsuits in regards to how they have changed the way they conduct their business (if for example they start cutting support for 10 yet provide no newer alternative). That's different. MS also has closed platforms like the Xbox with no legal/consumer issues whatsoever as you can see. So, they can do what they want, but for Windows, atm, the money's in it being open/keeping that 90% or whatever share. People might be able to pull a legit case against MacOS becoming a closed ecosystem as Apple plan for the next big version, but of course no monopoly stuff will apply there given Windows dominance. Still, it will be interesting to see (and largely unrelated to Epic's dumb bullshit here).
 
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kuncol02

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Apr 4, 2020
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I’ve read it and wow. I mean I always thought Epic was in the wrong but not like this. What an awful company.

There is nothing anticompetitive about charging a commission for others to use one’s service. Many platforms—including Epic’s own app marketplace and Unreal Engine—do just that.

lol
There is one huge difference. Epic is allowing use of other payments services for IAP and don't take one cent from payments like that.
 

Dodkrake

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Feb 28, 2020
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Should McDonalds have to let Burger King sell their burgers in every McDonalds store, where the burger king employees use the McDonalds owned and maintained equipment, and BK don't have to give McDonalds any money whatsoever? Does that sound fair?
So you're saying this was a charade?


So if on PC MS banned/did not allow any and all app like Steam, EGS, EA Access, etc... and any app and game not installed through the Windows Store you would be happy and cheering? I guess you would...
Apple can't do anything wrong. To be clear, Epic are in the wrong here, and Apple can and should enforce the contract both parties signed, but at the same time we've seen anti-trust cases against microsoft in both the EU and US where their practices were not nearly as monopolistic as Apple's.
 
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llien

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Feb 1, 2017
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Neither company are your friend but it's funny that Epic thought they would win.

I mean.... it's Apple.
I'm struggling with deciphering what you were trying to say.
Apple gets fined routinely for its shitty practices, at least in EU.
 

Al3x1s

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Nov 24, 2018
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Here's this completely different case where completely different things were done to show how completely different things that have nothing to do with what Epic is even asking could be done here. Lol. No shit, different cases went differently. They were, different.
 
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Dec 4, 2019
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Apple the company that uses NL to funnel money so it hardly has to pay taxes?

This company says of Epic: in reality it is a multi-billion dollar enterprise that simply wants to pay nothing for the tremendous value it derives.

There are too many lawyers in the world change my mind.
 
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KungFucius

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Should McDonalds have to let Burger King sell their burgers in every McDonalds store, where the burger king employees use the McDonalds owned and maintained equipment, and BK don't have to give McDonalds any money whatsoever? Does that sound fair?
Does McDonald's sell users expensive mouths that can only eat McDonald's food? Sure they could buy a BK mouth as well but that would be redundant and doubly expensive.

Who in this analogy is giving out free assholes for access to your excrement like Facebook/Twitter?
 
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fspm

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Jun 11, 2013
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Ignorant people stay ignorant because of that exact mentality. "That guy" fights against anti consumer laws and fights for RIGHT TO REPAIR. Imagine being a consumer like yourself, and saying fuck your own rights, as a consumer?

Real genius huh?




That guy fights for youtube revenue.

Even 5 year olds know all companies are anti consumer. Only EU can force laws that make a good change, that's who you should be paging but even then those laws will only work in EU, everybody else gets a familiar shaft.
 

smbu2000

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Mar 6, 2012
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Hoeg law does a pretty good breakdown of the Apple countersuit. Good watch/listen if you have 80min. free.


Apparently, after Apple gave Epic 14days notice about reverting the changes back to how they were before or risk having their developer account removed, Epic completely disabled IAP and only offered the direct Epic payment option.
 

MrFunSocks

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Jul 9, 2020
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So you're saying this was a charade?




Apple can't do anything wrong. To be clear, Epic are in the wrong here, and Apple can and should enforce the contract both parties signed, but at the same time we've seen anti-trust cases against microsoft in both the EU and US where their practices were not nearly as monopolistic as Apple's.
Apple don’t have a monopoly. The anti trust against Microsoft was them doing things to maintain a monopoly.
 
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reinking

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Hoeg law does a pretty good breakdown of the Apple countersuit. Good watch/listen if you have 80min. free.


Apparently, after Apple gave Epic 14days notice about reverting the changes back to how they were before or risk having their developer account removed, Epic completely disabled IAP and only offered the direct Epic payment option.
I really like this guys videos. I have been watching them for a while even before the Epic vs Apple news broke. I was shocked when I saw they had disabled the IAP portion on the last day. They have been really bad actors and it could come back to bite them.
 
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eot

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Apr 13, 2012
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That guy fights for youtube revenue.

Even 5 year olds know all companies are anti consumer. Only EU can force laws that make a good change, that's who you should be paging but even then those laws will only work in EU, everybody else gets a familiar shaft.
You're embarrassing yourself, please stop
 
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Clear

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and it also shows that whole we do it for little guy shtick is nothing more than lie as possible repercussions for customers if Epic get's their own way could be extremely bad
How so? From my standpoint Apple winning would be infinitely worse due to the way they are converging their entire product-line around iOS. Meaning that long-term the precedent would be set that having a walled garden around general purpose computing devices is ok.

I'd also note that Google are handling this situation quite differently, going so far as to try and distance themselves from Epic vs Apple. The inference being this is a much more nuanced thing than perhaps it first appears.
 
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JCK75

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Apr 19, 2018
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This is fun. I think Epic will find itself in a hole with these lawsuits.
I sure hope so.. I want them to go back to focusing on great engines and perhaps put some effort into a new Unreal Tourney..
you want me to use your store, stop buying exclusives and go back to making them.
 

reinking

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How so? From my standpoint Apple winning would be infinitely worse due to the way they are converging their entire product-line around iOS. Meaning that long-term the precedent would be set that having a walled garden around general purpose computing devices is ok.
But they are not converging their "entire product line" around iOS. Their MAC computers are not part of the "walled garden" that you speak of.
 

Clear

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But they are not converging their "entire product line" around iOS. Their MAC computers are not part of the "walled garden" that you speak of.
Look up Project Marzipan, as well as their ongoing efforts to converge look and feel.
 

reinking

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Look up Project Marzipan, as well as their ongoing efforts to converge look and feel.
??? It looks like it is doing the opposite allowing iPad/iOS apps to be easily be ported to MAC. Isn't that providing more access to those apps instead of hiding them behind the iOS walled garden?
 

MiguelItUp

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This is only becoming more entertaining with time. I wonder if this could potentially shoot Epic in the foot in some way. That'd be pretty hilarious.
 

Relativ9

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Apples argument could've been sound, if they allowed other marketplaces on their phones.

The argument that Epic wishes to benefit from the app store ecosystem without paying for it is bullshit, apple is forcing everyone to use their ecosystem. I'm sure epic would happily launch their own version of the appstore on iPhones if they were allowed to.