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[mrkgoo]

Where are you going to be showing photos though? In your house? On the go? If its in your house, wouldn't putting them up on a TV or something be better? If it's on the go, you're going to store them and waste the limited space that the device has to keep them handy? It doesn't seem exactly practical to show off photos.

I'm sure I'm different than most, but me, I store my photos on a central server at home and can access the photos from any device that is on the network. On top of that, I have them pointed to on a password protected webserver, so I can access them from outside of my network on just about any device with a web browser.

I'm sure someone will find a need, but I'm having trouble understanding the situation that this would warrent the purchase to do so. Not trying to say what you're doing is wrong or anything, I'm just wondering if you've considered the alternatives and trying to understand the scenario that makes sense to me for this.

As an avid photographer, I'm mostly showing photos off to myself

I have to admit your quiet reserved speculations were accurate. I was hoping for something out of this world, but am not surprised. I DO think this still fits in the context of the 'everyday' computer for generally non-computery people. I'm going to love this thing for browsing. Heck, I sit at home with my iPhone browsing, with my laptop right in front of me.

I don't have a TV, so I use my laptop for viewing DVDs, and my iPhone to browse sometimes. An iPad is a great device for browsing and photos. I don't think it's that good a device for music, as I want to walk around with headphones for music - you know do other stuff.

The brushes applications is pretty neat (as in I have it for iPHone), so it's a natural to upgrade for the iPad. I figured Apple were going to do an app themselves, but why bother when the Brushes folks have already done a great job.

I think I'm going to love iBooks. I really like the iTunes store just for browsing. And if books are added, even better. Might actually get me reading more.

Not sure about games. Thing is, they can actually have a pseudo keyboard and mouse set up (like a virtual on screen one). YOu can bet they'll try it, most will get it wrong initially, but someone will get it right.

I'm excited for the device.

Oh, and you can bet the environment will evolve. 2,3, and 4 finger gestures made no sense on the iPhone, but they do on a tablet. I can see the OSes diverge from this alone.

 

[Boonoo]

you can't zoom. I am an engineer and there will be state-charts or diagrams i would like to look at so zooming would be nice.

Also the amount of research papers I read is sort of ridiculous and not a good idea to print them. I actually have to read 6 a week for class and then on top of that the ones for my research. Some of these papers are 20 pages long.

And to that I say god bless limitless departmental printers!
I once spent an afternoon printing an entire (all 300ish pages) journal issue out. The trick was to do it in chunks so as to not warrant undue attention.

 

[cory]

If Apple were the type for rebranding, we might get this:

 

[Ten-Song]

So I've been away from the computer most of the day and finally check up on this thing and HOLY JESUS FUCK FIVE HUNDRED UNITED STATES DOLLARS FOR 16 GIGS?! It's just a really big iPod Touch, and they're charging THAT much money for THAT amount of storage, and have the balls to say it's a "revolutionary" price point? Holy fuck!

 

[Xdrive05]

Have they released hardware/chipset specs?

 

[Vic]

One step closer to the handheld & PC convergence dream.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

So I've been away from the computer most of the day and finally check up on this thing and HOLY JESUS FUCK FIVE HUNDRED UNITED STATES DOLLARS FOR 16 GIGS?! It's just a really big iPod Touch, and they're charging THAT much money for THAT amount of storage, and have the balls to say it's a "revolutionary" price point? Holy fuck!

Show me a product as sleek and designed like that, and I'll show you the same price. Don't quote no ugly netboook or what ever either

Anyways! This will be a solid day 1 purchase for me.

All I gotta say is officially Apple never said what it would be, never mentioned anything about it before hand, nothing... but everyone hyped it up too much. Apple delivered THEIR product, not YOURS (who prob though of stylus' and other crazy shit)

Motherfuckers let the hype get to their heads. I sat here and said it'll be NO WHERE close to $1000 because I knew the iPad wouldn't be something ground breaking new, just a middle device

Peace

 

[MThanded]

I can understand seeing this and saying "No thanks, not for me". That's a fair response.

I can't understand someone failing to see that there are some who feel something like this does fill a requirement, I have a beefy triple-monitor PC, a decent desktop replacement laptop and an iPod Touch.

I hardly use my laptop unless I need a good amount of processing power when I'm on the move, I never use it at home, far too much hassle as it's weighty and I have a PC to switch on if needed.

I do however use my iPod Touch one hell of a lot, and have been screaming for one with a 7"+ screen for ages, because I use it so much, because it's quick to fire up, has a handy formfactor and I can use it without messing about with my laptop. - I also have difficulty using the Touch when I want to because like myself the rest of the family have found the same with it and use it alot.

So a Touch with a 9.7" screen? Hell yes please, It's not going to replace any of the tech in my house, But I can sure see it complimenting it nicely.

You can't? - Then fair enough, but don't call me stupid, I get all itchy-fingered when people do that

Ipod touch was a huge game changer for me. I purchased it expecting to use it as a supplemental ipod but due to the interface and wifi it became my main ipod. Having that same functionality with a bigger screen will be great.

 

[Gary Whitta]

The more I study what this device is and what it does the more I like it. It's really a perfect middle ground for me when I travel. I usually have to decide between making do with my iPhone (super portable but fiddly sometimes for email, web posting and useless for any real productivity) or take my MBP (full functionality but I hate lugging it around). This is right what I wanted in the middle, super thin and portable but good enough to actually get real things done on it, especially with the stand/case and keyboard dock.

Will purchase 64gb 3G version Day #1.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Does this have actual tabs or does it still have the shitty pages that reload when you switch between them?

 

[jts]

So I've been away from the computer most of the day and finally check up on this thing and HOLY JESUS FUCK FIVE HUNDRED UNITED STATES DOLLARS FOR 16 GIGS?! It's just a really big iPod Touch, and they're charging THAT much money for THAT amount of storage, and have the balls to say it's a "revolutionary" price point? Holy fuck!

I can be wrong, but I'm not sure they are actually charging 500 dollars just for the storage. My suspicion is that all the rest comes attached to it.

 

[VanMardigan]

I don't want to be too harsh on this, since it will likely be the best device ever for some folks because it fits their needs, but this is so frustrating for me.

The iPhone was great because it redefined what a phone was capable of. It exceeded just about everyone's expectations of a smartphone's ability, and did it while looking amazing. I expected the iPad to deliver the same for the tablet/mobile computer space.

At 10 inches, the iPad will run across the opposite problem, it's iPhone roots will keep it from doing things that are expected of mobile computing devices like multi-tasking, flash support, etc. I think there will be as many instances of people being shocked at what they CAN'T do with this as there were people amazed at what the iPhone COULD do. Expectations change, and this device will likely underdeliver to so many folks who are not like us and paying attention to its limitations.

 

[DarkJC]

So I've been away from the computer most of the day and finally check up on this thing and HOLY JESUS FUCK FIVE HUNDRED UNITED STATES DOLLARS FOR 16 GIGS?! It's just a really big iPod Touch, and they're charging THAT much money for THAT amount of storage, and have the balls to say it's a "revolutionary" price point? Holy fuck!

Do us all a favour and go buy a USB stick with 16 gigs and marvel at how much money you saved instead of shitting up this thread even more than it already is.

 

[Flek]

all the haters remind me of the early iphone threads

"to expensive"
"worse than a palm"
"look at the specs"
"only because its apple"

look now, nearly everyone of them owns a iphone/ ipod.

Peoble who are complaining about the ipad beeing just a "explodet" iphone dont get it. Thats why its awesome.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

The more I study what this device is and what it does the more I like it. It's really a perfect middle ground for me when I travel. I usually have to decide between making do with my iPhone (super portable but fiddly sometimes for email, web posting and useless for any real productivity or take my MBP (full functionality but I hate lugging it around). This is right what I wanted in the middle, super thin and portable but good enough to actually get real things done on it, especially with the stand/case keyboard dock.

Will purchase 64gb 3G version Day #1.

People here buy notebooks/laptops FOR HOME. I can see why this iPad is unattractive for people who aren't mobile, only travel as far as their cars..but bahh, it was obvious the nature of replies on here..I remember the mac vs PC ads..I think most of the PC crew are in full effect

 

[MThanded]

The more I study what this device is and what it does the more I like it. It's really a perfect middle ground for me when I travel. I usually have to decide between making do with my iPhone (super portable but fiddly sometimes for email, web posting and useless for any real productivity) or take my MBP (full functionality but I hate lugging it around). This is right what I wanted in the middle, super thin and portable but good enough to actually get real things done on it, especially with the stand/case and keyboard dock.

Will purchase 64gb 3G version Day #1.

Only if i was making garry whitta money :-/ . I am a poor phd student will be getting the 16gb wifi version lol

 

[blu]

why is it that half the posters in this thread behave as if they've never used the superb browser of the iph/ipt and wished they had a bigger screen?

anecdotal: my wife is a technially-literate person but she does 95% of her web browsing from her ipt. she opens a desktop browser on her pc (or on my mac) only when she needs to go to a site with flash. my parents use a ubunty laptop for all their computing needs (browsing, email and skype), but could gladly do with something which did not require active maintenace. OTOH, i do my browsing on the background while i do other 'computing tasks', which the ipad would not allow me to do. basically, of all the people in my immediate surrounding, i am the only person whose daily computing needs would not be entirely covered by a device like the ipad (but i still think i could do all my web browsing from the couch). clearly, i'm in the minority. and chances are, so are you, gaf.

 

[alr1ght]

"I would like an iPahd"

"iPod, sir?"

"no, an iPahd"

"ummm"

 

[SnakeXs]

People here buy notebooks/laptops FOR HOME. I can see why this iPad is unattractive for people who aren't mobile, but bahh, it was obvious the nature of replies on here..I remember the mac vs PC ads..I think most of the PC crew are in full effect

I'd be much more annoyed if I wasn't here watching the initial wave of outlandish trolls. Luckily it's calmed down and some people are actually giving valid reasons now. An uninformed sap here and there I can deal with.

That plus Vennt fucking cleaned house. Goddamn.

 

[ChoklitReign]

Are you telling me the iPhone/iPad will never have Flash because of the goddamn processor?! I guess I should avoid all ARM-based computers if I care about Hulu and porn.

 

[maharg]

why is it that half the posters in this thread behave as if they've never used the superb browser of the iph/ipt and wished they had a bigger screen?

The screen has actually never been what I wished was better on the iphone for daily browsing needs. I have issues with performance, with the keyboard, with auto-reorientation. But for a portable browsing device that I can carry without a laptop bag I am entirely satisfied with the screen.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Only if i was making garry whitta money :-/ . I am a poor phd student will be getting the 16gb wifi version lol

co sign..32GB 3G for me, if UK prices are cute

 

[MThanded]

Are you telling me the iPhone/iPad will never have Flash because of the goddamn processor?! I guess I should avoid all ARM-based computers if I care about Hulu and porn.

Wrong my htc hero has flash.

 

[anovice]

Are you telling me the iPhone/iPad will never have Flash because of the goddamn processor?! I guess I should avoid all ARM-based computers if I care about Hulu and porn.

That doesn't have anything to do with it whatsoever. :lol

 

[Vic]

Are you telling me the iPhone/iPad will never have Flash because of the goddamn processor?! I guess I should avoid all ARM-based computers if I care about Hulu and porn.

The iPhone/iPad might never use Flash because it's Flash.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Flash is a plugin. Stop talking about it like it's a part of the web.

My favorite part of iPhone OS discussion is seeing the same people who trash Apple for using proprietary formats demand that Apple start supporting Flash on their devices.

 

[MThanded]

Flash is a plugin. Stop talking about it like it's a part of the web.

Exactly :lol . Iphone browser does not have plugin support.

 

[Flek]

the reason why there is now flash? Adobe. Flash means handing over to mouch controll to adobe. Bad coding @ flash makes phones etc crash. It would look like apple did a bad device when in fact adobe screwed up the coding. Thats the reason why there is no flash @iph/ipad. Apple wants to keep control.

 

[Ten-Song]

I can be wrong, but I'm not sure they are actually charging 500 dollars just for the storage. My suspicion is that all the rest comes attached to it.

Whatever, I just looked it up on Apple's site, and like all models of iPod, the only thing that changes with the pricing is the amount of storage. In this case ranging from "that's a lot of money for such a limited amount of space" to "are you fucking kidding me?"

 

[Flo_Evans]

The more I study what this device is and what it does the more I like it. It's really a perfect middle ground for me when I travel. I usually have to decide between making do with my iPhone (super portable but fiddly sometimes for email, web posting and useless for any real productivity) or take my MBP (full functionality but I hate lugging it around). This is right what I wanted in the middle, super thin and portable but good enough to actually get real things done on it, especially with the stand/case and keyboard dock.

Will purchase 64gb 3G version Day #1.

Isn't that what the AIR was supposed to be for?

 

[BrettWeir]

Watching the video on Apple's page made me want to murder a turtle. Why? The Cure in musak killed a part of my soul. Due to this, I will NOT buy this iPod Touch LL.

 

[J-Rod]

I wish there was less bezel, and it had a cam for web conferencing. If it had the latter, I would so get this for my mom. Of course, I also wish it had expandable memory, a standard USB slot, and multitasking, but I did not expect it to have that. I love that it has an IPS screen.

Sorry if this has been answered, but does it allow dragging and dropping of files or at least photos or does everything have to be synced?

 

[SnakeXs]

the reason why there is now flash? Adobe. Flash means handing over to mouch controll to adobe. Bad coding @ flash makes phones etc crash. It would look like apple did a bad device when in fact adobe screwed up the coding. Thats the reason why there is no flash @iph/ipad. Apple wants to keep control.

That and battery use. That and what happens if Apple wants to change core things, be it in Safari or even next gen iPhone architecture, and are at the whim of Adobe to fix it.

Apple has tons of reasons to stiff arm Adobe.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Whatever, I just looked it up on Apple's site, and like all models of iPod, the only thing that changes with the pricing is the amount of storage. In this case ranging from "that's a lot of money for such a limited amount of space" to "are you fucking kidding me?"

It goes up $100 per 16 GB. The device itself goes up $500 per device to begin with. Your logic and argument here is fucking hilarious.

 

[DarkJC]

Isn't that what the AIR was supposed to be for?

Doesn't have the power/functionality of an MBP, but can cost the same or more. This starts at $499, is much lighter, and even more portable.

 

[scorcho]

I think this device is actually perfect for me however I understand its pitfalls.

Lemme give you my situation. I am a PhD student who reads a lot of research papers(pdfs). For the last few months I have been searching for an ereader that could handle pdfs correctly so that I could view text and diagrams with ease. As far as I know none of them are really great at handling pdfs. I have heard the only way to zoom in on pdfs on the kindle is to turn it to landscape mode and thats not going to work for me.

Anyone agree that this would be a good device for my needs? Everyone in this thread shitting on the device is not helping my purchasing decision. :lol

Edit:I would buy the 500 dollar one and wifi tether to my htc hero. No 3g needed here.

I can't imagine this device fitting your needs either. I'm a grad student and read upwards of 4-5 PDF articles per week. I print them out two pages per side, back and front with heavy annotations on the text and margins as I go through the text.

I've seen nothing that can replicate this electronically.

 

[Marty Chinn]

all the haters remind me of the early iphone threads

"to expensive"
"worse than a palm"
"look at the specs"
"only because its apple"

look now, nearly everyone of them owns a iphone/ ipod.

Peoble who are complaining about the ipad beeing just a "explodet" iphone dont get it. Thats why its awesome.

What? The second I saw the iPhone unveiled I was hyped, fell in love and it was painful for me to wait out the first year because I wanted one so badly. I saw it, I understood it, and I wanted it. It has been one of the most life changing devices I've ever owned and certainly one of the top two devices I've bought in the last two years (the other being an HP Mediasmart Server which is godly).

The first time I touched an iPod and played with it, I got it, I wanted it and so forth just like the iPhone. I've owned 4 different iPods and only hated one of them which was the 3rd generation one which hopefully we can all agree sucked.

Here however, I've been pointing out issues that turned out to be true even before the it was unveiled and this is way underwhelming to me. You can't sit here and deny the shortcomings and blame me for not getting it. I certainly got it with the iPod and iPhone and love both to death. This on the otherhand is nowhere near a game changer like those two were and it has such a narrow limited market of people that it caters to. I don't deny that someone will buy it and love it and I don't deny that there are people that will find a need for it. What I do think is that market is extremely small and limited though and they're in the minority.

So don't tell me that I don't get it. If anything, I called it.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Isn't that what the AIR was supposed to be for?

Sure if you want to spend twice or three times as much money and not have 3G.

 

[Teddman]

My person opinion, iPhone OS on a big screen is a huge disappointment.

I was hoping for OS X, so I could install my own comic reader, pdf reader with markup, movie playback of non-Apple formats (like xvid), and normal Safari for web browsing sites like Hulu and Netflix.

In addition, I imagined they might even introduce a cool art app or video conferencing tool.

I don't like being tied to the App store for everything. So now I guess I'm interested in seeing what the HP Slate is like.

 

[mrkgoo]

People here buy notebooks/laptops FOR HOME. I can see why this iPad is unattractive for people who aren't mobile, only travel as far as their cars..but bahh, it was obvious the nature of replies on here..I remember the mac vs PC ads..I think most of the PC crew are in full effect

I want one for home use

myhanded: as far as journal articles go, full colour PDF viewing in a tablet form factor is like a dreamcome true. Laptops aren't so good at viewing journal articles becaus of the cumbersome nature of the keyboard. Sure there have been pc tablets before but they've been just pcs - kind of overkill for PDF viewing and certainly not 'fun' to use. I have confidence that they'll bring 'Papers' to tHe ipa and sync with my PDF library and all will be dreamy.

 

[Tobor]

Isn't that what the AIR was supposed to be for?

Can he rip the keyboard off the Air when he doesn't need it?

Sure if you want to spend twice or three times as much money and not have 3G.

That too.

 

[MThanded]

I can't imagine this device fitting your needs either. I'm a grad student and read upwards of 4-5 PDF articles per week. I print them out two pages per side, back and front with heavy annotations on the text and margins as I go through the text.

I've seen nothing that can replicate this electronically.

I am assuming pdf annotations will be coming to this device. Also i read a lot more than 4 papers a week. My paper reading is is about 10 currently. I have to read 6 a week for classes .

If they dont make an annotation app then I guess I will have to do it myself :lol

 

[thespot84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsjU0K8QPhs

I thought the iPad came out two years ago...

 

[H_Prestige]

Sure if you want to spend twice or three times as much money and not have 3G.

So if price weren't an issue, you'd agree that the AIR is a more sensible product?

 

[MThanded]

So if price weren't an issue, you'd agree that the AIR is a more sensible product?

:lol you cannot leave price out. Seriously if the ipad was 1000 dollars I would be in here saying wtf is this shit.

 

[Gary Whitta]

So if price weren't an issue, you'd agree that the AIR is a more sensible product?

Sensible perhaps but I'm one of those people who is seduced by the pure sexiness of the form factor and I love the idea of a computer you hold and interact with this way. Your mileage may vary but this is exactly what I want.

And yeah, you can't just make price not an issue. If price weren't an issue I'd have bought an Air ages ago. But it is, so I didn't.

 

[Marty Chinn]

As an avid photographer, I'm mostly showing photos off to myself

I have to admit your quiet reserved speculations were accurate. I was hoping for something out of this world, but am not surprised. I DO think this still fits in the context of the 'everyday' computer for generally non-computery people. I'm going to love this thing for browsing. Heck, I sit at home with my iPhone browsing, with my laptop right in front of me.

I don't have a TV, so I use my laptop for viewing DVDs, and my iPhone to browse sometimes. An iPad is a great device for browsing and photos. I don't think it's that good a device for music, as I want to walk around with headphones for music - you know do other stuff.

The brushes applications is pretty neat (as in I have it for iPHone), so it's a natural to upgrade for the iPad. I figured Apple were going to do an app themselves, but why bother when the Brushes folks have already done a great job.

I think I'm going to love iBooks. I really like the iTunes store just for browsing. And if books are added, even better. Might actually get me reading more.

Not sure about games. Thing is, they can actually have a pseudo keyboard and mouse set up (like a virtual on screen one). YOu can bet they'll try it, most will get it wrong initially, but someone will get it right.

I'm excited for the device.

Oh, and you can bet the environment will evolve. 2,3, and 4 finger gestures made no sense on the iPhone, but they do on a tablet. I can see the OSes diverge from this alone.

Thanks for that viewpoint. As always, I respect your stance and I'm glad that we can have this calm debate even though we don't always agree with each other.

 

[6.8]

My person opinion, iPhone OS on a big screen is a huge disappointment.

I was hoping for OS X, so I could install my own comic reader, pdf reader with markup, movie playback of non-Apple formats (like xvid), and normal Safari for web browsing sites like Hulu and Netflix.

In addition, I imagined they might even introduce a cool art app or video conferencing tool.

I don't like being tied to the App store for everything. So now I guess I'm interested in seeing what the HP Slate is like.

Same feelings as me. I like the idea, the device would be great for 80% of my home computing, but I really don't like the restrictions. I definitely would've preferred it if it was more computery.

 

[Shogmaster]

But that's what I think the audience needs though - a thin slate that does everyday tasks in an easy way. If it's too heavy or too hot or I'm swapping out batteries, it fails. I need to treat it like an artbook or magazine and not like my DV6, if you see what I mean.

Shit, if that's what you need, there are metric shit tons of PMP/web browse thingies coming from China for like $200. ARM slates. Touch. All over CES. But then, if you have to circumnavigate around Flash sites, I don't know how "easy" that is...

Obviously, if I need a pro tablet or laptop for the road, I'll be looking at different avenues.

I guess my feeling is, that this thing is so big, big enough to force me to carry a bag, then why not just carry around my Tablet PC that does everything and not just some things? It's got too many limitations for that size. If I'm carrying my Harold man-bag, then all bets are off about how "thin" and "light" and "long batteries" since all those can be remedied by what I carry in my man-bag.

10 hours of video though?

5 hours of 720p videos I'd say. Probably significantly less with 1080p videos. But then again, is Apple claiming 10 hours or 720p videos w the 'Pad? 480p videos? Comparison seems rather moot (especially since I can whip out a spare battery and get another 4 hours or whatever. Remember, you're already forced to carry a bag with you when your screen is 10". Unless you wear Shaq's cargo pants or something...)

I'm not sure I've seen a regular laptop lately that could do that. At least, not without manually cutting out Wifi, 3G, BT and dropping the brightness. (Not that the iPad will do the connectivity stuff at the same time either, clearly.)

My unit has a LV processor and two humping batteries. Still only about 5 lbs. About Macbook Pro's weight.

At an HP Slate size I think the concerns about battery size and type have to be real. If it's not LiPo than I guess they just add another half inch of thickness into the frame somewhere though...

It probably will allow for the same battery layout as my 2730p. regular battery + slice battery humpage option.

Kind of a bad idea with small, high DPI displays though. I think CUDA support for Flash is a godsend for portable devices. Not really willing to look at a netbook again without it.

I mix up Tegra because of the devices that use that versus CUDA though, my mistake.

I was never a fan of Netbooks because of the Atom, but I can deal with them if they can do basic Flash site browsing + HD videos, whether you get that from Pure Video, UVD, Broadcom chipset add on, whatever.

My problem is the interface though - bigger icons is fine, but as far as Windows as concerned you're still just steering a two button mouse around. If at any point I have to use the back end to trigger a right click text menu, it has pretty much failed as a pen OS.

Who the heck taught you how to use your Tablet PC? :lol You map right click to the pen button on the side, not the eraser on the back! Also, I don't even bother with that. Press and Hold built into Windows works fine for right clicks!

Now, if the media-center like interface was standard and let me launch everything from there, that would at least be a start. But there's still years of things for them to learn from how the iPhone handles menu systems.

iPhone handles things great with touch because it has far less complex tasks to do! Get back to me when Apple intros touch UI around the full OSX!

Scribble support has definitely improved, don't get me wrong. But it's stuck there.

Stuck where? Stuck at an awesome place? Ink is THE BEST thing about the platform!

And my problem with HWR is that even on W7, it seems to expect you to write characters in a specific direction

You mean like normal people?

- not words, but characters. It's the Brain Training DS problem - if you don't write a "4" from the correct starting point, it has no idea what you're doing.

You can go ahead and check off the options that allows TIP to learn your fucked up writing style. It's not on by default IIRC.

 

[Beardz]

Ipod touch was a huge game changer for me. I purchased it expecting to use it as a supplemental ipod but due to the interface and wifi it became my main ipod. Having that same functionality with a bigger screen will be great.

For me, the Ipod touch is crap, If I want to pause/back/forward/volume I need to take out of my pocket, and look at the screen... crap!