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I don't know where people are getting this ridiculous idea from.

Probably because it's much more easy and fun to browse the web with touch than it is to track your finger around on a 2" trackpad, carefully aiming your pointer at each link.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I don't know where people are getting this ridiculous idea from.

Again. I think the actual intention of this sentiment is not to suggest that the iPad has more functionality than a netbook. I think it's to criticize the emphasis on netbooks as a shortsighted stopgap for what consumers really want in portable computing. It's just a smaller laptop, which is fine, but it's not really a game-changer. It still has all the same problems as a laptop, but provides benefits in the form of being marginally less cumbersome. If that's what you want in portable computing, so be it.

However, Apple is banking on people saying "I need something even less cumbersome, like my iPhone, but more functional. The netbook is nicer than a laptop, but still too clunky for my casual computing needs."

 

[SnakeXs]

Polishing a concept doesn't mean you've created a market.

Apple created a market with iTunes. They expanded a market with the iPod. There is a significant difference.

Show me the market of media consumption devices aimed to make taking in internet, music, movies, books, and apps super easy for computers users and the computer illiterate alike.

 

[G-Fex]

Again. I think the actual intention of this sentiment is not to suggest that the iPad has more functionality than a netbook. I think it's to criticize the emphasis on netbooks as a shortsighted stopgap for what consumers really want in portable computing. It's just a smaller laptop, which is fine, but it's not really a game-changer. It still has all the same problems as a laptop, but provides benefits in the form of being marginally less cumbersome. If that's what you want in portable computing, so be it.

However, Apple is banking on people saying "I need something even less cumbersome, like my iPhone, but more functional. The netbook is nicer than a laptop, but still too clunky for my casual computing needs."

People will want this for one reason or another. Hell if I was rich I'd get it for the hell of it. I'd be real real surprised if it failed.

off topic but I'd really really would like a touch phone like the Iphone.

 

[WickedAngel]

Show me the market of media consumption devices aimed to make taking in internet, music, movies, books, and apps super easy for computers users and the computer illiterate alike.

Adding more qualifiers doesn't make your statement true. Take a marketing class, please.

I see this kind of statement every time Steve presents something. Oh, this is different...it's a completely new market because of *minor evolution A, B, and C*.

 

[Tobor]

Everyone knows why all those tablets were at CES. Those were half assed attempts at getting something shown before Apple swept in. A few of those devices weren't even ready to show yet.

Apple is so dominant in CE devices that other companies are reacting to what they think Apple is doing.

 

[SnakeXs]

Adding more qualifiers doesn't make your statement true. Take a marketing class, please.

Would you prefer that I said "opened this sort of device up to new markets", you pedant.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Except that no single model (or even a line of models) is going to be that popular. I'm highly skeptical of the assertion that people are switching to a netbook-only lifestyle, or that they ever will. Even if they did, you could never really expect one model to dominate in the way that iPod and iPhone have.

Does it really matter if it's a single model? The fact is people are moving away from desktops, and moving more towards laptops and netbooks as their main computer. Those things are part of the daily lifestyle and I'm sure most people would not be able to live without it.

While the iPod is something that will probably never be duplicated by Apple again, the iPhone as big as it is, still only has about 13% marketshare. Big number in itself, but still only a fraction of the total market. Netbooks have been huge and you just need to look at the sales numbers on those for the proof of that. That's why everyone has been pushing Apple on a cheaper mobile computing device.

Most people don't buy multiple computers for various scenarios. They tend to buy one computer for their needs. That is the general non computing consumer which this device is aimed at. No matter how great or easy the UI is to use for that type of consumer, the second you start taking away functionality but charging a higher price, you start to risk success in that market. People are jumping on to netbooks for a reason. It does what they want to do, at a cheap cost and I'm not sure if the iPad in its current form offers enough to pull a lot of people in.

For the record I'm not saying nobody will buy it. You can always find someone who will buy something. You can always find someone who will find it perfect for what they want. Conversely, you can always find someone who will never touch it cuz Apple made it, or you will find someone who will have issues with it. My points are never aimed at these types of people. My points when I comment on this device are aimed at the likelyhood of how successful it will be among the masses.

 

[Tobor]

Adding more qualifiers doesn't make your statement true. Take a marketing class, please.

If only Apple had someone with your marketing expertise on staff.

 

[tokkun]

Any word on demo units in Apple stores? I want to get my hands on this beast.

Given that there are still two months before the release of the non-3G version, you are probably going to have some time to wait.

If only Apple had someone with your marketing expertise on staff.

This sarcasm is just phenomenal.

 

[clav]

If people can justify their purchases for overpriced backwards bathrobes (i.e. Snuggies) or ridiculously thin notebooks (i.e. Dell Adamo, Macbook Air, Sony Viao netbook), then the Apple iPad is no exception.

People will find a reason to like this, and it will sell millions.

There is nothing you can do GAF.

 

[WickedAngel]

If only Apple had someone with your marketing expertise on staff.

If only Apple fanboys had the ability to distinguish between PR speak and market realities.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

If people can justify their purchases for overpriced backwards bathrobes (i.e. Snuggies) or ridiculously thin notebooks (i.e. Dell Adamo, Macbook Air, Sony Viao netbook), then the Apple iPad is no exception.

People will find a reason to like this, and it will sell millions.

There is nothing you can do GAF.

Is it overpriced though? The 10" IPS panel and the new multi-core chip justify the price alone, in my opinion. The problems worth debating come from the software limitations.

 

[clav]

Is it overpriced though? The 10" IPS panel and the new multi-core chip justify the price alone, in my opinion. The problems worth debating come from the software limitations.

You can't do photo editing on the iPad though. That's where IPS shines because the viewing angles + colors matter a lot for photo artists. Not to mention the resolution is terrible.

Yes, it's a nice screen.

 

[Garcia]

If people can justify their purchases for overpriced backwards bathrobes (i.e. Snuggies) or ridiculously thin notebooks (i.e. Dell Adamo, Macbook Air, Sony Viao netbook), then the Apple iPad is no exception.

People will find a reason to like this, and it will sell millions.

There is nothing you can do GAF.

Pretty much what I was going to post. As useless as it is for many of us, it will sell just because it's an Apple product.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

You can't do photo editing on the iPad though.

Yes you can.

 

[GodfatherX]

the R&D on this thing had to be fairly reasonable though right?

 

[clav]

Yes you can.

Ok. I was wrong there.

Why would you photo edit at a low resolution though?

I'm sure the next iteration like the iPad 3GS or something will tout a higher spec model.

I wouldn't buy this first gen one.

Not to mention, Apple has a track history of lowering prices after the first gen model.

 

[SnakeXs]

You can't do photo editing on the iPad though. That's where IPS shines because the viewing angles + colors matter a lot for photo artists.

That doesn't change the fact that it's a great display, head and shoulders above most, if not all, devices in the price range.

 

[v0yce]

Well for the record, I have a 100% track record with these types of Apple products I knew the iPod would be big, I instantly knew the iPhone would be huge, and I knew the Apple TV would be a flop. I also so far have called the iPad even before it was unveiled. I really don't think this thing will be big in its current form. It's going to need to go through some massive changes in order for it to have a chance for any type of success. I think it'll sell better than the Apple TV, but I think it will be extremely mediocre in success at best compared to the iPod and iPhone.

:lol

Precious.

 

[Vennt]

If only Apple fanboys had the ability to distinguish between PR speak and market realities.

If you can't play nice, you don't get to play, simple.

 

[mrkgoo]

Again. I think the actual intention of this sentiment is not to suggest that the iPad has more functionality than a netbook. I think it's to criticize the emphasis on netbooks as a shortsighted stopgap for what consumers really want in portable computing. It's just a smaller laptop, which is fine, but it's not really a game-changer. It still has all the same problems as a laptop, but provides benefits in the form of being marginally less cumbersome. If that's what you want in portable computing, so be it.

However, Apple is banking on people saying "I need something even less cumbersome, like my iPhone, but more functional. The netbook is nicer than a laptop, but still too clunky for my casual computing needs."

Yup. Although Steve didn't ever say that an ipad offered more functionality than anything. The claim was that it brought a new device to the table by taking the core functions that most people use a computer for and made them "better". That's The debatable point, however. Better in this case was a more friendly and fun touCh interface. Whether you agree that this is better is up for contention, but there's no arguing that a netbook isn't better at these things
than a laptop.

I concede that a lot of people actually think the iPa is worse at the listed functions, and those people are te ones who don't see te point in a device. I can see that. I just don't agree that the functions are worse.

 

[tokkun]

Is it overpriced though? The 10" IPS panel and the new multi-core chip justify the price alone, in my opinion. The problems worth debating come from the software limitations.

I think the potential cost issue is not whether the iPad's hardware and software merit the cost, but whether the added utility of this device is worth the cost for people who already have a laptop and smartphone.

 

[Reginald P. Linux]

After absorbing all this information, the biggest problem with the iPad is it inheriting the software mess of the iPhone: Apple's application approval process. Only apps that meet Apple's anti-competative standards will get through, nothing else. No third-party browsers, no iWork alternatives, no apps that compete with apps from their partners, and a 2-4 week hit & miss approval process to get anything out to users.

This sets a horrible precident. What's acceptable for phones and small media devices doesn't translate well when you're scaling up to netbooks and notebooks.

 

[Tobor]

Given that there are still two months before the release of the non-3G version, you are probably going to have some time to wait.



This sarcasm is just phenomenal.

Hopefully they get one in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

The quotes I'm talking about were about the iPod.

Um, then why did you quote me, and respond to my post?

Actually, that's exactly what you're doing when you pull quotes from 9 years ago and throw in a "lol, familiar".

None of my quotes were pre-iPhone reveal.

Past that, you're going to find similar quotes about every product Apple has delivered in the past decade because that's what they do; they imitate.

Yeah. iPhone was really just an imitation of everything that came before...

:rolleyes

They're an American embodiment of classic Japanese business philosophy; their most successful products already have established markets and their product is typically seen as an evolutionary movement past every else. The problem here? Tablets aren't a household establishment; the market is flimsy and questionable in contrast to, say, the netbook market.

When Woz and Steve put Apple Computer together, there really wasn't an "established market" for home personal computers. It was a homebrew scene. The Apple II came along and was a very successful, innovative product. So, nice try, but fail. Read a history book.

But on to the modern world -- are you saying that Apple is nothing but an imitator, they will fail now that they are trying to establish a new household device paradigm? So they used to be nothing but an imitator, but now they are an innovator in this market space, so they will fail?

I'm really trying to nail down exactly what you are trying to say...

[EDIT] Oh, I see you got the banhammer. Sorry.

 

[VGChampion]

And how many aim to deliver a streamlined, easy to use experience for everyone? Not geeks, not people who demand a full OS at all times, but everyone. Computer illiterate moms, uncles who can't figure out how to upgrade their Google (browser), and so on.

How many of them have the media consumption capabilities of this thing? Again, not for geeks who want to rip their own Blu Rays, or *gasp* play downloaded stuff, but someone who doesn't mind buying a movie on iTunes, or the iBookstore. How many of them aim to make casual use more refined and dare I say enjoyable?

No Android OS I've seen has this level of polish, and this appealing a size/price point. On top of that, you have all the stores I mentioned, right there on the device.

Right, I really think a lot of my family / extended family will use this once their ready for an upgrade. They're on Mac's now so it will probably be awhile but when most of them just use their computer for Internet, iTunes, iPhoto, and Skype, I really think there's a market for this.

 

[Marty Chinn]

What do those things have to do with Wacom's sensors?

Sorry, even though we have two of the high end Wacom tablets here in the office and people have Wacom tablet laptops, I admit I don't know much about the technology other than it's fuck awesome stuff. I assumed the Wacom sensors are part of the reason that the pen stylus interface is so accurate and useful to artists. Thus in applying it to a tablet like artists here already have, it would make for a more accurate writing interface.

 

[clav]

That doesn't change the fact that it's a great display, head and shoulders above most, if not all, devices in the price range.

What about usability of it?

Photo artists appreciate these IPS panels due to editing.

Yes, IPS has better viewing angles than the crappy TN. What about actually using it though? It's not like two people will be reading a book at the same time.

 

[v0yce]

Again. I think the actual intention of this sentiment is not to suggest that the iPad has more functionality than a netbook. I think it's to criticize the emphasis on netbooks as a shortsighted stopgap for what consumers really want in portable computing. It's just a smaller laptop, which is fine, but it's not really a game-changer. It still has all the same problems as a laptop, but provides benefits in the form of being marginally less cumbersome. If that's what you want in portable computing, so be it.

However, Apple is banking on people saying "I need something even less cumbersome, like my iPhone, but more functional. The netbook is nicer than a laptop, but still too clunky for my casual computing needs."

You nailed it. In an odd way, the fact that netbooks are successful shows that there's a market for the iPad.

 

[Zachack]

Probably because it's much more easy and fun to browse the web with touch than it is to track your finger around on a 2" trackpad, carefully aiming your pointer at each link.

It's even easier and fun to browse the web with a thumb-ball. Or to play a P&C adventure game. And as someone who's tried playing Myst and Beneath A Steel Sky on an iPhone, laptop with trackpad, and thumb-ball, the latter obliterates the competition.

You nailed it. In an odd way, the fact that netbooks are successful shows that there's a market for the iPad.

I fully agree with this. I just think Apple went way too far in the opposite direction from netbooks. I see a lot of basic functionality sacrificed, and I don't think the app store will be able to fill those gaps reasonably.

Also, as someone who loves games, I think the interoperability between the iPhone and iPad app store will heavily cripple iPad games. I'm expecting that most of the games made will continue to be iPhone games with "waggle tacked on", rather than actual iPad games taking advantage of the platform.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What about usability of it?

In the promo video on the website, Apple talks about how it's great for sharing with others due to off-angle viewing of the screen, and they show two people on a couch.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

You can't do photo editing on the iPad though. That's where IPS shines because the viewing angles + colors matter a lot for photo artists. Not to mention the resolution is terrible.

Yes, it's a nice screen.

There's an app for that.

 

[SnakeXs]

After absorbing all this information, the biggest problem with the iPad is it inheriting the software mess of the iPhone: Apple's application approval process. Only apps that meet Apple's anti-competative standards will get through, nothing else. No third-party browsers, no iWork alternatives, no apps that compete with apps from their partners, and a 2-4 week hit & miss approval process to get anything out to users.

This sets a horrible precident. What's acceptable for phones and small media devices doesn't translate well when you're scaling up to netbooks and notebooks.

When's the last time you've heard App Store hate? There hasn't been mutterings of blown out of proportion app approval issues in quite a while. And there's plenty of apps that compete with Apple's built in stuff. Plus most major app disapprovals were due to telecomm issues, which this will lack. On top of that VOIP for the entire SDK was opened up.

Like it or not, the App Store delivers 99% of what people need, and will continue to do so. Wether people like it or not is free to discuss, but if you're gonna throw around anti-competitive you should have some ammo and recent proof.

 

[clav]

In the promo video on the website, Apple talks about how it's great for sharing with others due to off-angle viewing of the screen, and they show two people on a couch.

I've never seen a couple reading a book at the same time.

There's an app for that.

Please read the responses before posting a redundant one.

 

[border]

Does it really matter if it's a single model?

Well yeah, kinda. If you are talking about the computing market as a whole, then no single line of models is going to have iPod-level success. People's needs and desires are too wildly divergent for one product to satisfy such a huge chunk of the market. Apple itself is only 10-15% with all its desktops/laptops combined.

So no, they aren't going to get even an iPhone-like market share but it's ridiculous to suggest that they ever could have or should have.

They tend to buy one computer for their needs.

How many people do you think own only a netbook? As products get cheaper, I'd argue that people are willing to buy more than one computer.

 

[SnakeXs]

I've never seen a couple reading a book at the same time.


Please read the responses before posting a redundant one.

Watching videos together? Showing someone some pictures?

It's not as if viewing angle is the only benefit of it being IPS. The device is effectively the screen, and it's what you're looking at the whole time. Having it be as good as can be (without leaping into OLED land) matters, if you ask me.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Please read the responses before posting a redundant one.

Only six minutes past between your post and his. This is a fast moving thread. Be nice.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I've never seen a couple reading a book at the same time.

This does 100,000+ more things than just the iBooks application.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

Sorry, even though we have two of the high end Wacom tablets here in the office and people have Wacom tablet laptops, I admit I don't know much about the technology other than it's fuck awesome stuff. I assumed the Wacom sensors are part of the reason that the pen stylus interface is so accurate and useful to artists. Thus in applying it to a tablet like artists here already have, it would make for a more accurate writing interface.

=$$$
!= $499

Can people stop talking about wacom tablets in light of the iPad? You know what you can get - Brushes. Someone has used it on a fuckiong iPhone to create covers for the New Yorker 3 times, so it's not the inability of the iPad to act as a wacom that's holding "artists" back.

 

[mrkgoo]

Is it overpriced though? The 10" IPS panel and the new multi-core chip justify the price alone, in my opinion. The problems worth debating come from the software limitations.

Too many people take the cost of research, developmnt and design for granted.

I beleive that the prices for these products are fair. The products miss a lot of things nerds want and a few things that even the mainstream would have good use for, but all those features are additive and shouldn't be isolated.

Take fOr example a front camera, which I think this device is perfect for. Oh no, you say, couldn't apple pay the price of $2 webcam component? Sure they could have. Buy not only do they have to charge more than $2 for it, they have to provide a compelling reason. Of course iChat and photobooth make sense. But software development, porting and testing all take time and money. Maybe they didn't want to do it just yet. Maybe they didn't want to focus on this, but rather the other features for now. Point is the price for things, I find are always pretty fair for what the products are.

I think this device a very aggressive introduction price for a so-called new category (for apple). And that's why I'm getting one. If this had a dozen more nerd features and coat 3x as much, I probably wouldn't.

 

[Karma]

That doesn't change the fact that it's a great display, head and shoulders above most, if not all, devices in the price range.

I looked up IPS displays and I dont see much advantage. You get slightly better viewing angle at the expensive of battery life. I dont see how viewing angle means much in a device you hold in your hand.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Still a little surprised by the lack of a front-facing camera.

 

[clav]

Watching videos together? Showing someone some pictures?

It's not as if viewing angle is the only benefit of it being IPS. The device is effectively the screen, and it's what you're looking at the whole time. Having it be as good as can be (without leaping into OLED land) matters, if you ask me.

I see how this works: people buy most of their stuff from the iTunes store: music, movie rentals.

I know what concept you are trying to tout. That will work for that consumer-base.

However, I thought at this time period people don't have money?

I don't know by shoving down people's throats to absolutely love it is a good idea. Seems like you people loving it are sold on the fact that everyone has to love it, too.

Only six minutes past between your post and his. This is a fast moving thread. Be nice.

I am nice. I just told him please read instead of bursting into rage.

 

[SnakeXs]

I looked up IPS displays and I dont see much advantage. You get slightly better viewing angle at the expensive of battery life. I dont see how viewing angle means much in a device you hold in your hand.

Do you think artists and photographers desire IPS panels just for their viewing angle?

Still a little surprised by the lack of a front-facing camera.

And I'm dumbfounded. Still. Hell, I was expecting 2.

 

[Teddman]

After absorbing all this information, the biggest problem with the iPad is it inheriting the software mess of the iPhone: Apple's application approval process. Only apps that meet Apple's anti-competative standards will get through, nothing else. No third-party browsers, no iWork alternatives, no apps that compete with apps from their partners, and a 2-4 week hit & miss approval process to get anything out to users.

This sets a horrible precident. What's acceptable for phones and small media devices doesn't translate well when you're scaling up to netbooks and notebooks.

Very good analysis. I'm not a fan of the "walled garden" approach either. You have some people in this thread railing against Flash for its non-web-standard, closed, proprietary nature, and then touting the App Store in the same post. What?

I think the iPad would make a really nice $499 compliment for a home with wireless internet. Throw it on the coffee table and let guests have at it for casual browsing. But it really needs to be fully compatible with the internet. As it is now, not as it will be in five years, not as anti-Flash activists want it to be. I don't want to have to explain to my buddies/family/wife's friends why it can't browse Hulu, ESPN, Netflix, and all the other sites that use flash.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I looked up IPS displays and I dont see much advantage. You get slightly better viewing angle at the expensive of battery life. I dont see how viewing angle means much in a device you hold in your hand.

"Slightly better viewing angle"? Really?

The difference between 160 degrees and 178 degrees is way bigger than the number difference on the spec sheet makes you think. You're also ignoring the enormous benefits in color reproduction and image quality.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Well yeah, kinda. If you are talking about the computing market as a whole, then no single line of models is going to have iPod-level success. People's needs and desires are too wildly divergent for one product to satisfy such a huge chunk of the market. Apple itself is only 10-15% with all its desktops/laptops combined.

So no, they aren't going to get even an iPhone-like market share but it's ridiculous to suggest that they ever could have or should have.

Let's ignore the iPod because I think we all agree nothing will match it. iPhone on the otherhand is a much more possible reality. Claiming even just 10% of marketshare isn't unreasonable if we're talking about the narrow scope of portable computers. Even maybe just limiting it to netbooks, I think it's not an unfair market to aim for.

How many people do you think own only a netbook? As products get cheaper, I'd argue that people are willing to buy more than one computer.

I think a lot of people do as its been affecting sales of other types of computers. If that wasn't the case, laptop and desktop sales wouldn't be down, they would be more closer to the norm and the market would be expanded due to netbooks. That isn't what is happening, so clearly the people are opting for a netbook only type situation.

 

[mrkgoo]

I looked up IPS displays and I dont see much advantage. You get slightly better viewing angle at the expensive of battery life. I dont see how viewing angle means much in a device you hold in your hand.

Have you not seen the demos? They want you to pass this thing around as much as use it as a personal device.

Anyway, a good looking screen is always a plus in my book (I want this thing to view photos), so it's something I appreciate. The LED backlighting of the MacBook pros was one of the main reasons I upgraded to it from my old PowerBook.

 

[v0yce]

Still a little surprised by the lack of a front-facing camera.

Easily the biggest hang up. I simply have no idea how that didn't happen given that apple puts cameras on just about everything.

A mic but no camera? Really strange.