-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Apple iPad revealed
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
- Start date
- Status
Until it has a built in camera with an ichat ap, or a skype app, along with flash support, and the ability to mutitask, im sticking to getting a netbook. It's too bad because it does everything else that I want. But the lack of the features I said above are enough for me to buy a netbook. Any netbook offers those features and cost up to $200 less, with a real OS, and much more memory than a 16 gig HDD. In my opinion, Apple is still overcharging for this device with the lack of basic features even a $300 netbook offers.
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Jea Song said:
sigh...
Princess Carl
Member
Jea Song said:
Mecha_Infantry said:
i fail to see what makes this post sigh worthy. Could you explain for me?
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
xDangerboy said:
It's a sigh for me because the aim isn't to be a netbook..
Netbooks are meant to be iNETerbooks as per their introduction, but people are using them as full computers at home and offices, they are now in the market as smaller cheaper computers
iPad is meant to be dependant of a parent device, parent of a child device, not an ultimate parent device. It's meant not to do certain things, so compare a netbook to a laptop or desktop, not a convergence device
But that's where I see it; I guess I get it
I still wanna know why there is no hate on everyone who released their tablet at CES with Android
SnakeXs said:I was with him until the "real OS" and overcharging stuff. Up until then it was merely him stating why it doesn't suit his needs, and thus isn't for him.
Having a "realOS" is a legitimate concern. Obviously it's not worded correctly.
There is a fundamental difference between operating systems in how they handle the important functions of computing. They are often purpose built for specific tasks and devices. Trying to shoehorn an OS that was created for a phone onto a tablet, which aims to provided more functionality is a mistake.
If Apple plans for the Ipad to be a really big Ipod touch, or a really big Iphone, then sure it could work. If Apple plans to add more functionality to the Ipad and place it in between a Macbook and an Iphone then it could become a problem.
There is a reason you can download purpose built Linux distros that knock the socks off anything Apple or Windows have ever produced.
The OS on the Ipad has been modified, but it still functions basically the same as the Iphone OS. Which means it's slower and less efficient then simple Linux distros anyone can download for free on the Internet.
When someone says a "realOS" they mean an operating system that won't make you feel like you are locked in jail. One that allows their product to be more like a computer then a consumer electronic. Apple hasn't made it clear who the Ipad was designed for. Those who want a consumer electronic, or those who want a small computer for media consumption. So yes it's valid, although poorly worded, when people ask for a "realOS".
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
Saying iWorks is the new labtop. It's iWork dumbasses.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Blackface said:
Slow, how?
Maybe you should add to the point of the both devices using the same OS, that the hardware isn't the same and do I believe anyone has benched this. I honestly can't believe you made that comment
I don't know if you watched the keynote, but I suggest you do as a lot more is explained, like a co-worker did:
Mecha_Infantry said:
The hardware isn't the same as the Iphone, but the hardware in the tablet isn't exactly ground breaking. Just about everything it includes has an equivalent out there already, and also a superior that could be used in a similar device. It's an ARM processor being used in a SOC design.
My point wasn't about the hardware anyway. My point was the OS at it's fundamental core could be better for computing. It's fine for what it's designed for, but if they want to turn the Ipad into more of a computing device, instead of a consumer electronic used for specific designated media, then the OS could have problems. Since the OS was not built for that purpose.
The reason people say they want a realOS on it, and various other features that should be a standard in 2010 is because Apple has not said who this product is geared towards, or what it really is.
If they flat out said it's not a mini computer, and it's not suppose to be a touch screen netbook. It's a device meant for you to access Apple specific applications and media then nobody would be asking for features COMPUTERS should have.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Blackface said:
What Tegra 2 / Arm A9 devices or equivalents are "out there already"?
Serious question.
You do know the iPhone OS is just a trimmed down version of OSX / Snow Leopord already don't you?, Which means they could just trim it less if necessary, which is why the "Real OS" rubbish is sigh-worthy.
Vennt said:
I never said there were equivalent devices, I said hardware that could be used in similar devices. The Cortex-A9 stuff isn't exactly earth shattering.
The Iphone OS isn't just a trimmed down version of OSX. It was derived from OSX but was fundamentally changed to work for a specific purpose. That purpose wasn`t to be used as a computer.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Derived from / Trimmed down from - same difference, the point is that the "core" of the OS is OSX, and any features they may need to implement could be implemented by deriving a new version.
Your argument that the core is the iPhone OS as it stands now is weak, given that, especially given that iPhone OS version 4 is rumoured to include multitasking.
Your argument that the core is the iPhone OS as it stands now is weak, given that, especially given that iPhone OS version 4 is rumoured to include multitasking.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Mecha_Infantry said:
There would be if they were getting the hyperbole we've seen here. Instead, there is screaming indifference, in case you hadn't noticed. Tablet-mania is premature, and Apple's pricing makes the iPad extra-unappealing. Android tablets are at least open and cheaper, but still, who cares?
Kindles are already at the edge of what's acceptable pricing for what *they* do, and the tablets are even more expensive, Apple's especially.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
For christ's sake, stop quibbling over semantics. Wanting a "real OS" clearly meant having open access to files and installing apps. Heaven forbid a critic use ambiguous wording to express a reasonable desire.
If you like the iPad, fine, but just as you request that people not criticize those that do, stop nitpicking people who have legitimate beefs with the thing. Especially when they areticulating a *personal* desire and not speaking for everybody.
Seriously, you guys ought to take a step back, you identify with the iPad a wee bit much. It's a product, not a religion.
If you like the iPad, fine, but just as you request that people not criticize those that do, stop nitpicking people who have legitimate beefs with the thing. Especially when they areticulating a *personal* desire and not speaking for everybody.
Seriously, you guys ought to take a step back, you identify with the iPad a wee bit much. It's a product, not a religion.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Not wanting the device because it doesn't have an OS that suits you is one thing, arguing that features people may want in the future are unlikely to be added because it doesn't have an OS that could support such features is overstepping the mark.
And as for "stepping back" - Maybe you should consider why you remain in a thread arguing about a product you have no interest in. Introspection goes both ways.
And as for "stepping back" - Maybe you should consider why you remain in a thread arguing about a product you have no interest in. Introspection goes both ways.
Princess Carl
Member
Mecha_Infantry said:
how can surfing the web be immense? Like an immense task? I feel like the choice of vocabulary is poor.
Vennt said:
The core of every Apple OS is the same, because it`s the Mach Kernel*(NeXT flash word). What is designed around it on the other hand isn`t the same, and that is where the problem comes in. Since a majority of the functions the Mach Kernel provide have been stripped away, it`s on the user or the OS developer to provide them. Thus the fundamental difference between Iphone and OSX.
The only remaining wide spread use of the Mach kernel on planet earth is with Apple products. The reason for that is because it is not good. It is slow, has had performance issues since the 90s and has most of it`s own ability to provide functions to the user striped away.
The Linux kernel is superior in every single conceivable way, which is why there were rumours in 2007 that Apple was thinking about using the Linux kernel moving forward.
Making the argument that the core of the Iphone is the same as OSX so it isn`t weak is flawed. Since the Mach Kernel is a piece of shit. It`s also flawed because the Mach Kernel provides a lot less then other Kernels do, so although the core may technically be the same, features that are normally provided in a Kernel may not be there.
The Linux Kernel Vs the Mach Kernel is like a 2010 Mercedes Vs a 1998 Toyota. The fact apple engineers are still holding on is a testament to their skill.
The article isn't extremely well written but its points are solid. The computing industry really does have a stable paradigm that you are generally allowed to tweak and modify computers you buy. Your last assertion, the part I bolded, is a non sequitur. Mac OSX is open but where are the viruses and compatibility problems for MacBooks. It's not either-or, you can have a device as simple as the iPhone OS and yet still open. Android and WebOS devices are more open than the iPhone and yet they still survive in that wild wild West. Heck, I helped someone unlock their iPhone and then hid Cydia from springboard before handing it back. For all intents and purposes, e experiences the device as if it were not jailbroken and yet I've opened it up. Apple could do this as well but they choose not too. Ok fine, fuck the world, you agree with that mindset but can we get it straight that the excuses they make for these restrictions don't stack up.LiveFromKyoto said:
I'm going to rant again about the multitasking because the defenders are melting my brain. On one hand they claim nobody needs multitasking. On the other hand the offer justifications that you can multitask with Apple's default apps anyway and who really needs more. Ugh, talk about eating your cake and having it... Nah, i'll just let the Apple fanboys (yes, that's the only description I can use for people who bend logic to such extremes in defence of one company's decisions) continue to do what they do. This is not worth the effort.
Confirmed: iPhone OS 3.2 has support for...
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Charred Greyface said:
I warned about the Apple fanboy shit, yet someone still crosses the line, I said I'd ban for it and I am, anyone continues the Apple fanboy line, or the Apple hater line gets a months ban. Cut that shit out.
Tisan said:
No. I think you could genuinely use it without a computer for very long stretches at a time - maybe syncing when you get a bunch of new photos, or new music. But even my ipod touch hardly connects to my computer - podcasts directly downloaded, music (which reverse syncs to itunes when I do connect), apps are nearly all direct download.
I'd be tempted to say that if you have a work computer for getting around basic computing tasks like syncing etc then you might manage.
But realistically this is a secondary computer at minimum
SnakeXs said:
What I am saying is all factually correct.(in terms of software and hardware) I am not saying Apple sucks. It doesn`t. I just have some criticisms of the Ipad. criticisms I probably would not have had if they gave the product a proper direction during the keynote.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Blackface said:
Free me from the limitations of the Apple jail, into the wild world of Linux and its bustling development community! Thousands of thrilling apps, dozens more rolling in every day, each one more stable than the last!
Mr. Dobalina
Banned
RE: My post on desktop class applications which will separate this from an oversized iPhone/Touch: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19521790&postcount=2118
It begins. OmniGroup bringing five of their OS X apps to the iPad: http://blog.omnigroup.com/2010/01/29/ipad-or-bust/
OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, OmniPlan, OmniFocus, and OmniGraphSketcher.
It begins. OmniGroup bringing five of their OS X apps to the iPad: http://blog.omnigroup.com/2010/01/29/ipad-or-bust/
OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, OmniPlan, OmniFocus, and OmniGraphSketcher.
giga said:RE: My post on desktop class applications which will separate this from an oversized iPhone/Touch: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19521790&postcount=2118
It begins. OmniGroup bringing five of their OS X apps to the iPad: http://blog.omnigroup.com/2010/01/29/ipad-or-bust/
OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, OmniPlan, OmniFocus, and OmniGraphSketcher.
And thus you run into a problem.
If it's going to be more like a computer then a consumer electronic, then it's a gimp joke of a computer.
Steve Jobs said during the keynote that Netbooks aren't the inbetween that they are "Slow, don't have high resolution screens, run old software".
The Netbooks out now, are faster then an Ipad, have higher resolution screens and run brand new software.
It took a 2GHZ ARM Cortex-A9 to out benchmark an Intel Atom N270 single core CPU that came out in 2008. The new Atoms smoke it, and it's not even close. The CPU in the Ipad is basically an ARM A9 at only 1GHZ.
I'm positive that the A4/Tegra 2 will be more than enough to run an iPad optimized and designed Omni application. The iWork demo ran beautifully--Keynote was especially impressive.Blackface said:
Link? Is this an MPCore A9? Hell I don't doubt it, but an N270 doesn't exhibit the same performance/milliwatt hour as ARMs do.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
I wonder after reading a post higher up on the page about whether you'll be able to sync to more than one computer since IIRC that's how you transfer files. So if you can only transfer you pages or other docs to and from one computer that will make it useless it some cases or if nothing more a hassle to use.
Faster how? By pure computing numbers? That really doesn't matter especially when you tailor the app for the processor. It sure didn't look slow when he was demoing it.
Blackface said:
Faster how? By pure computing numbers? That really doesn't matter especially when you tailor the app for the processor. It sure didn't look slow when he was demoing it.
deadbeef said:
That wasn't the point. The point was the Mach Kernel doesn't even provide the same set of services it USED to, because of performance issues. Which is why the entire computing industry except for Apple abandoned it over a decade ago. Even Apple wants has had to do some miracle engineering with it and BSD.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
The conversation in here is going round and round, and I think we all know where each other stands at this point. So, lets talk about something else...
Over on the gaming side, in the iPhone/iPod games thread, someone put out a great notion for a sophisticated use of the iPad and iPhones/iPod Touches. We had some preliminary discussions on how the iPad could be used for board games, sitting the larger screen on the table between players, for something like say Monopoly or Scrabble. (I suggested a game like Warhammer)
This sounds great, in and of itself, to me. But another poster said what if you also added an iPhone or Touch to the mix, using it to roll dice, keep track of players scores/cards/money, etc. The potential for gaming on the iPad is great, and I can't wait to see what the devs will come up with.
Over on the gaming side, in the iPhone/iPod games thread, someone put out a great notion for a sophisticated use of the iPad and iPhones/iPod Touches. We had some preliminary discussions on how the iPad could be used for board games, sitting the larger screen on the table between players, for something like say Monopoly or Scrabble. (I suggested a game like Warhammer)
This sounds great, in and of itself, to me. But another poster said what if you also added an iPhone or Touch to the mix, using it to roll dice, keep track of players scores/cards/money, etc. The potential for gaming on the iPad is great, and I can't wait to see what the devs will come up with.
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
The Ipad will basically run cellphone apps designed around the Ipad. The apps will be quick, but will be nothing compared to whats available for Netbooks.
It also begins to slow down if they ever unlock multi-tasking, or take it into more of a computing arena. They would need to put an Atom into it because an ARM A9 would not work properly. It would be lower then a Netbook regardless of how the apps are designed because the ARM A9 is not good at multi-tasking (more then 2 apps) period.
If the IPAD had USB, FLASH, multi-tasking and an Atom I would get one(maybe even without the atom). If it had all of that plus OSX or allowed me to install Archlinux (won't ever happen) I would drop $1000+ on it.
Kung Fu Jedi said:
That is a pretty awesome idea, but I just don't see most people sitting around playing a board game on the tiny Ipad.
What would be cool is if you played a game of Poker. Used the Ipad like the poker table/dealer/betting and used your Iphone/Touch like you were holding your hand of cards.
People would play the fuck out of that.
I disagree with your first sentiment and provide iWork as proof. Can Netbooks run more desktop class applications now? Really cost effective? Definitely. Will that change over time? Yes. Do netbooks offer a great user experience? Heh.Blackface said:
iPhone OS already multi-tasks the iPod/Mail/Safari/Phone apps in the background so there goes your "max of 2 apps" argument.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Blackface said:
Right. Yes, the iPad is relatively small compared to a true board game, but given the right experience, it could be really great. Your example of poker is a perfect one, and you're right, it would be huge. I think something like Magic the Gathering would be great too.
In the example I made above, it would be great if you had a game like Warhammer and on your iPhone/Touch you could organize your armies, cast spells, and make moves, then watch it all play out on the screen against your opponent's armies too.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Mecha_Infantry said:
That's hellishly cool, I was expecting a simple RDP client, but full VDI desktop is pretty cool, I'll hope for a VirtualBox version, as all my Virtual Machines run on it.
If I can get a VirtualBox client for the iPad, then I can have a remote Windows and Linux based iPad and cover ALL bases, that would seriously rock.
This thing would be amazing with basic multitasking (for radio/communication clients), a cam and flash support - nothing that hasn't been said before but I'm going to buy one anyways because I love my iPhone and figure it would be good for my mom [/bill gates]
edit: oh yeah the apps are gonna be crazy awesome for this thing - pc like IM clients, VNC clients, or just anything with a lot of on screen interaction or data viewing
I have a feeling there's a lot of stuff in the wings for iPhone os 4
edit: oh yeah the apps are gonna be crazy awesome for this thing - pc like IM clients, VNC clients, or just anything with a lot of on screen interaction or data viewing
I have a feeling there's a lot of stuff in the wings for iPhone os 4
Has this been posted? Sorry if old:
Edit: for those who want to use the UI while they wait for the real thing.
iPad UI gets ported to the iPhone and iPod touch
By Vladislav Savov posted Jan 30th 2010 4:54AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VheR65gYiG0
At this particular point, 50-something days away from the earliest iPad deliveries, we doubt too many people are up in arms about the iPad's ability to act as a jumbo iPhone. On the other hand, if we told you you can take pretty much the entire iPad experience and distill it down to your iPhone OS device, well you'd probably care a lot more, wouldn't you? To get that extra 3D flavor to your UI, including the fetching iBooks shelf and other iPad-specific touches, you'll need a jailbroken iPhone or iPod touch, access to the Cydia app store, and the manpower to click past the break for the full instructional video. Come on, you know you want to.
Edit: for those who want to use the UI while they wait for the real thing.
Has the College Humor parody been posted already?
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Seth C said:
No, that's advertising and marketing, jeez, Advertising is Propaganda (definition: information that is spread for the purpose of promoting).
No more warnings, period, get off the "Cult of Mac" shit, get off the "Fanboy/Hater" shit and stick to discussion of the products, after so many warnings you'll either start to take notice, or lose all privileges, it's not hard to comprehend is it?
- Status