I apologize as I am sure it's been answered numerous times, but is multi-tasking handled like the iphone and ipod touch, or is it more robust? Could you say, listen to Pandora and run and iwork application at the same time. Or run a document and a spreadsheet at the same time?
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Apple iPad revealed
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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Vennt
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eznark said:
As far as we know so far, same as iPhone / Touch, multi-tasking is rumored to be coming with iPhone OS 4, but only a rumor and little is known about 4 yet. (The iPad will ship with version 3.2)
Can't work out if Blackface is just being deliberately obtuse now.
iPad will be slow because it has a slower chip than an atom? On most netbooks that atom has to wade through the treacle that is XP. I'm sure the A4 would be slow if you put it in the same computer, but it isn't - it's in a device presumably optimized around it, running a mobile optimises OS. It's apples and oranges and I expect you know it
maybe the problem is 'iPhone OS' - if they'd called it 'touch OSX' or something perhaps people wouldn't rush to slag off the ipad. It's supposed to be a very capable OS, but purposely reigned in for the current iPhone
with the iPad and future iPhones, maybe apple will open ip it's capabilities, providing it doesn't damage usability and battery life etc. No reason they can't allow multiple apps with a firmware update, and I expect the entire iPad platform to evolve as people start using it and Apple sees what people do with it and need from it.
iPad will be slow because it has a slower chip than an atom? On most netbooks that atom has to wade through the treacle that is XP. I'm sure the A4 would be slow if you put it in the same computer, but it isn't - it's in a device presumably optimized around it, running a mobile optimises OS. It's apples and oranges and I expect you know it
maybe the problem is 'iPhone OS' - if they'd called it 'touch OSX' or something perhaps people wouldn't rush to slag off the ipad. It's supposed to be a very capable OS, but purposely reigned in for the current iPhone
with the iPad and future iPhones, maybe apple will open ip it's capabilities, providing it doesn't damage usability and battery life etc. No reason they can't allow multiple apps with a firmware update, and I expect the entire iPad platform to evolve as people start using it and Apple sees what people do with it and need from it.
This machine has serious problem as a travel companion or multimedia companion.
Let me start with oversea travel companion. Say you want something more convenient than a netbook, you decide to take the iPad with you.
* You have to physically cut the sim card to find out if it's compatible with the iPad. This is kind of decision I just know its Steve Jobs's call and I wish he retire already.
* There is no camera for Skype, which is probably the most important feature in oversea travel
* Again, not IMing and browsing at the same time.
All of these are simple to implement. Apple can even offer its own IM client that work in the background and keep the rest of the third party App singletask. This is how the music player work anyway. Jobs is holding back.
As for serious multimedia companion. It's a great photographer companion if you can get it to read compact flash, which is what the high-end professional DSLR still use today. You have to use a stupid usb cable. It would be great if you can plug in the CF card and show your clients what the pictures look like.
I hope this device kick start the 6-10 inch "smartbook" market that can do more than the iPad. I am sure the WM/Android/Chrome smartbooks and tablets will look uglier than iPad and hey I will take them for professional reasons.
Let me start with oversea travel companion. Say you want something more convenient than a netbook, you decide to take the iPad with you.
* You have to physically cut the sim card to find out if it's compatible with the iPad. This is kind of decision I just know its Steve Jobs's call and I wish he retire already.
* There is no camera for Skype, which is probably the most important feature in oversea travel
* Again, not IMing and browsing at the same time.
All of these are simple to implement. Apple can even offer its own IM client that work in the background and keep the rest of the third party App singletask. This is how the music player work anyway. Jobs is holding back.
As for serious multimedia companion. It's a great photographer companion if you can get it to read compact flash, which is what the high-end professional DSLR still use today. You have to use a stupid usb cable. It would be great if you can plug in the CF card and show your clients what the pictures look like.
I hope this device kick start the 6-10 inch "smartbook" market that can do more than the iPad. I am sure the WM/Android/Chrome smartbooks and tablets will look uglier than iPad and hey I will take them for professional reasons.
Don't know if this has been touched on, but has there been any talk of the iBooks application being on Mac/PC as well as the iPad? I imagine Apple has a lot of incentive to restrict ebooks to the iPad, but as someone with a 27 inch monitor, being able to blow up my textbooks to take advantage of that screen real estate has been really nice. If I was able to transition my books between my computer and the portable device, similarly to how I listen to my music, the iPad suddenly becomes that much more appealing to me.
Video chat is the most important thing on overseas travel? I'd love to see the stats on that. And anyway if it's that important maybe someone will come up with a dock mounted webcam for use with a VOIP client
You know how big CF cards are, right? Almost no laptops have CF slots built in. And if you did, you'd have to include SD and memory stick too. What's the big problem with just using a USB CF reader plugged into the USB dock adapter? And if they make an app for remote live view you'd cable the camera up anyway
You know how big CF cards are, right? Almost no laptops have CF slots built in. And if you did, you'd have to include SD and memory stick too. What's the big problem with just using a USB CF reader plugged into the USB dock adapter? And if they make an app for remote live view you'd cable the camera up anyway
Who says it has to be for the iPhone?tino said:
Now they have a true mobile platform across three devices and two screen sizes. There is already a difference in the software on iPad compared to iPhone, they could bring multitasking to iPad and not iphone, or maybe only iPhone 4G if it's more capable of handling it?
BTW is multitasking in 4.0 a real rumour or just wishful thinking? And it's due around Juneish?
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
tino said:
You willing to take a ban bet on that?
tino said:
What does multitasking have to do with thin? Jailbroken iPhones multitask just fine for many people. The current iPhone guts have the horsepower to do it, beyond the fact that they already do. Add in the iPad's extra muscle? HW isn't the issue.
tfur said:
That's my question. I really can't imagine considering one until it has 1GB (I'm really tab-happy when browsing :\)
mrklaw said:
Yes and no. If you are using a bluetooth headset, what's the difference if the thing you're connected to is an iPhone or an iPad? Vennt said:
Not to be a spec-whore, but your question doesn't really make sense since it implies an equivalence between the A4 and Tegra 2.
There isn't one. They share the same CPU, after that they are unrelated. Tegra 2 outperforms it.
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Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Raistlin said:
Well, there's equivilence in that they are both A9 based SoC's, I don't expect the A4 to outperform the Tegra 2 as that's dual-core A9, and reports suggest the A9 in the A4 is single core. My question is what SoC's are out there now to compare with devices that will be based on the A9 architecture. I don't think Atom based devices come close, Given that a 500Mhz A9 is already on par with a 1.6Ghz Atom. - As I said, it was a genuine question, as I am curious about the architectures because they will end up in devices I'm going to be interested in.
Tobor said:
Well, as I said above, the Tegra 2 SoC is using a dual-core A9 Cortex, with nVidia GPU and logic, whereas the A4 is using a single-core A9 Cortex with ARM Mali GPU & Logic. So you don't need benchmarks to know which is going to be faster.
Although that said, some reports have confused the issue by suggesting the A4 uses an identical core to the Tegra 2, hinting at it being dual-core also, however I think that is just inaccurate reporting as saying they use the same "core". Until we see a SoC architecture diagram for the A4 it's all guesswork, they could be closer if it's dual-core also, however I still expect the Tegra 2 will have the performance crown between the two.
mrklaw said:
Who said the Ipad would be slow? I said, in plain English, it will be fast.
It will begin to slow down when proper multi-tasking is enabled. Not running apps in the background but only being able to use one at a time (that isn't multi-tasking). The ARM A9 cpu is not built to do lots of multi-tasking for larger scale apps. It won't handle, for example, video chatting with someone on skype while browsing the web or watching a video well at all. It wouldn't allow you to watch a video in 720p and quickly send an IM to someone without some slow down. It has limitations.
It has nothing to do with how these apps are coded. You can only make them so efficient. It's all hardware limitations, and sadly the ARM A9's although powerful are fairly limited when we start talking about multi-tasking above the smart phone level.
I would be willing to bet that if the Ipad takes off, and it probably will. That eventually they will switch over to an Atom chip.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
tino said:
I didn't realize all the netbooks come with compact flash. You're right a netbook does have more capabilities. *sigh*
Vennt said:
That was a staged test down by ARM. It took a dual core 2GHZ ARM A9 (twice as powerful as that in the Ipad) to beat a two year old single core Atom N270.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/16/arms-cortex-a9-beats-atom-n270-too-bad-its-not-2008/
The new Atoms make the A9's look like a joke. Apple will switch eventually. It's inevitable.
I honestly believe that beyond whatever small Apple premium you pay for all Apple products (if you even believe that's true), the iPad is exactly what it is. As pointed out, the pricing of any product isn't really about hardware components. It's about the device as a whole. What it can do, how it does it etc. The iPad is a $500 10" touchscreen gadget with a simplified OS. People will define what that has to mean for themselves, and that's fine. Can you do better for $500? Probably. Depends on what you want to do and how you want to do it.
How much SHOULD a 10" iPod touch cost?
How much SHOULD a 10" iPod touch cost?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Blackface said:
Come now, really? You made fun of jobs saying netbooks are slow and then you flat out say the ipad is even slower so by that you're implying it's slower than the already slow netbooks. And I don't see how you guys can have specs for how badly this things will slow down when it starts multitasking when it can already run some things in the background and the thing hasn't even been released yet. Shouldn't you at least until it's jailbroken to have multitask to bad mouth it which even then won't be as well implemented as it would be if apple did it?
Edit: Why would they ever switch to an atom? What benefit would that give them?
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Jumping on his CF card comment is a bit harsh, I think. It's just a comment on how cool it would be, rather than a complaint about it lacking. Personally I think it would be cool, but that's because I use CF. I think it would be cool if MacBook Pros had CF slots too (and they ARE marketed as pro machines). They don't have them and the iPad won't have them.
Still doesn't mean it wouldnt't cool for me if they did.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
mrkgoo said:
I dunno, it seemed more like another stupid comparison between netbook vs ipad and how ipad is inferior by listing things they both don't have. His intro in about how lacking it is compared to a netbook implied a different tone to me.
Edit: Is there any benefit to a cf card over an sd card? Or is there a special reason some cameras haven't switch over?
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Vennt
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Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
But again even if that article were true, which it isn't, it still doesn't mean you're going to have horrible slow down. It's not about raw computing numbers as much as how it's being implemented. Raw numbers always help but it doesn't mean that this will go to hell if they let more than music and mail and stuff run in the background.
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Could be. I just like to take things at face value when I can. You never know when it's just text.
Anyway, moving on. I have no idea about CF, really. Maybe it's just an 'industry' thing. As far as I know, there's no reason. They're just different formats. Maybe there's something within the physical hierarchy or management system, I don't know. Nikon Pro cameras, though, offer both. Canon entry level dSLRs now come with SD.
Although it makes no difference to me, I like the satisfying bulk of a CF on my SLR, but SD is much more ubiquitous. And it's smaller. And less chance of damaging pins.
To me it seems like SD is much better choice in general. Maybe people just expect CF in bigger cameras.
edit: Did some research:
bobatkins said:
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
So you're saying that this device that can handle 720p video and 3D gaming is going to start slowing down when you begin to IM and play music and browse at the same time.Blackface said:
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
1. Netbooks are not slow, thats the point. Ipad won't be faster then a Netbook running the latest atom CPU. The hardware in a netbook is just better, it's faster, it can do more. Unless you know anything about hardware, stay away from that side of the conversation.
2. If you understand anything about hardware you know the limitations. A9 chips are not brad new. We know what they can do already.
3. I am not bad mouthing the Ipad. I am bad mouthing people in this thread who keep talking about subjects they have no knowledge on. My main criticism of the Ipad is Apple didn't give it a clear purpose. If it's a computer, then it's a piece of junk. If it's not a computer and a consumer electronic used for a few main goals then it could work well. Right now it looks like a big cell phone. It's not just me saying this, it's almost every tech website and magazine that has reported on it.
4. The atom is more powerful, the new Atom is more energy efficient, it can multi-task better and it's an all around better CPU. The main reason people think Apple didn't go with Atom in the first place is because Apple doesn't want someone figuring out how to get Windows 7 on the Ipad.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
mrkgoo said:
Ya, I was just wondering if there was any benefit to having one over another that cameras still don't have a standard format. May aunts camera she got a couple months ago has xd i think.
Edit: Just saw your edit, thanks.
Again, how are you quantifying this? Raw numbers don't not equal performance when the customer is using the product. How many times do we have to say this before you stop ignoring it to make a point you can't even back up?Blackface said:
Edit: I just missed what I bolded the first time around. :lol It's especially funny with the shitty link you used to "prove" your point.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
So you've used an iPad and seen benchmarks of the A4.Blackface said:
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
SnakeXs said:
I agree, I want the newsletter now too.
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
I edited some differences that don't mean anything for most practical applications in my post above.
My opinion is that SD is more or less the standard for flash memory format. Even Sony, who are super into their own formats, are starting to adopt SD. This is a big deal.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
tino said:
Disagree with a lot of this and my side gig is as a travel writer. In fact, I intend to dump the netbook I bought in favor of the iPad. I will agree that multitasking would be nice for IM-ing and doing some web stuff, but Internet connections abroad vary greatly, and I wouldn't want to do video chat on most of them.
Also the camera kit does offer a solution for those with non-SD cards. My entire line of cameras, including a point and shoot, mid-range DSLR, and video use SD cards, so I'm in fine shape here, and not concerned int he least.
Throw in the ability to read books, watch movies, and listen to music on long flights, and this thing makes a great travel companion in my opinion. I'll know better in April however as I'm hoping I'll have one to take to Nepal with me in the spring.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I realize it gets hardware decoded and sent to the GPU. I'm asking what makes you think browsing, IM, and music is so demanding that you said this device will slow down when proper multi-tasking is enabled. Unless you were just really stating the obvious that more always equals slower, even if it's almost imperceptible.Blackface said:
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Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Tobor said:
Actually it was tweaked by PA Semi, Apple just happened to have bought them, Don't think they'd do that if they were going to give in and just use an Atom
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I'm not the one making definite statements about its quality.Blackface said:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/172069/arm_flaunts_performance_by_boosting_processor_speed.htmlLiu Kang Baking A Pie said:
The Arm Cortex A9 bench marks were released a while ago. They were all posted on xtremesystems if you want to go digging into that shit.
They had to overclock the CPU for it to beat a two year old Atom chip.
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Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Blackface said:
The A4 is a SoC with a Arm A9-Cortex Core, ARM Mali GPU and integral memory interconnect, now, point me to the benchmarks please, before I start to decide you're just trolling and derailing the thread for the sake of it, and no, the A9 benchmarks alone won't do, I want A4 benchmarks, the two are not the same, as a core is not a SoC.
Nothing in that article states it was a 2Ghz version used for the comparison benchmarks, just that it can scale to 2Ghz, I've multiple links that state the comparison was done with a 500Mhz dev platform.
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