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Apple iPad revealed
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Blackface said:
? That's it? This still gives me jackshit. All it says is dual core 2GHZ arm > Atom N270. It doesn't say it has to go that high to even come close to performance or give any benchmarks just a vague vague statement like you have been trying to use for pages now to makes some bullshit point. And if we want to go vague so much by the sounds of that article it would seem arm uses less power than an atom which is contrary to what you said earlier.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Kad5 said:
All the things they mentioned in the keynote and other things other people are sure to develop solely for the ipad? Much much better battery life, etc.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
It was 500Mhz, not 2Ghz, although the chip does scale to 2Ghz, and is running at 1Ghz in the A4.
tino said:
I agree that Jobs is holding back the camera and built-in iChat. MAybe intentionally, or maybe just because it's not ready, or they want a feature to introduce later.
I also agree that video conferencing is a great feature while travelling overseas. It's the coolest thing to be "Look where I am Mum! Can you see the Statue of Liberty?", but I wouldn't say it's the number one feature. The number one feature would most likely be just internet access. People will often just voice chat or IM, both of which is capable on iPad. I don't think that multitasking is not that big a deal while travelling overseas. You're highly focussed when travelling - you don't need to be browsing and listening to pandora at the same time. Besides Pandora probably doesn't even work overseas. Perhaps using IM, but that will be multitasking with 'real life', rather than anything else you want to do on the iPad. And there are solutions for that even if you did feel the need.
Vennt said:
The article I posted is not about the video. The video is separate. Please read the article. It seems nobody bothered and is assuming it's about the video on youtube.
Also GHZ mean nothing compared to architecture. This isn't 1999. ARM has a different architecture so it can perform better at lower GHZ. The same way a 2.6GHZ I7 will beat a 4.0 GHZ Q6600.
The ARM A9 was slightly slower then the TWO year old Atom in the video. However, at 2GHZ it beat the N270. The problem is, the N270 is MUCH slower then the dual core 330's, which are slower then the new pinetrails.
Blackface said:
The SOC however was designed by Apple (well, a subsidiary they recently bought).
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
As others have lamented, I'm more concerned about the possible lack of RAM than the SOC itself.
The only real issue I have with the A4 is that it can't support 1080p which is a bit odd for a media consumer in this day and age. Granted, it doesn't really matter since the iPad can't even output HD (though obviously that bothers some of us as well).
PrivateWHudson
Member
I haven't read through the thread a whole lot, but does the iPad NOT have an SD card reader? It doesn't seem to be a great media device if I can't upload pictures from my camera, or video from my camcorder. If I could use the iPad as a portal of sorts to get media to and from some network attached storage, then it'd would be a perfect media device. It looks more like a pay to play device that's just a portal for iTunes and iBooks or whatever.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
You said...:
with a direct link to that article, which I've proved numerous times was a lie, it was clocked at 500Mhz, now you're just trying to backpeddle, so fuck it, you really are just trolling, cya.
with a direct link to that article, which I've proved numerous times was a lie, it was clocked at 500Mhz, now you're just trying to backpeddle, so fuck it, you really are just trolling, cya.
Kad5 said:
To be honest, not really. YOu get a super high quality screen supposedly.
But to downplay this as 'just' a bigger screen is to not see the bigger picture (pun not intended). the increase in screen size crosses a threshold that makes the possibilities of apps explode. You already know all the 'neat' things an iPodtouch can do. All the novelties. But a touchscreen computing device can now have more 'power' apps. By that, I don't mean pro apps or power editing, but things that actually become truly useful.
It's like going from a single window, flipping between panels, to being able to display all the panels at once.
Examples:
Finger painting app: on iPhone you struggle to maintain as much screen real estate. You use gestures to bring up pallets, make selections then have them disappear. You have to zoom in. on iPad, the palletes can be on screen at once. A larger working area.
Word processor: Simply not viable on a small screen. On an iPad it's at least a better possibility if not ideal. Pages (iWork) looks great on iPad and very serviceable. Can you imagine even trying something like that on an iPod touch?
The entire range of mobile apps and desktop apps can be re-envisioned on this device.
Tobor said:
The point you really have there is cheaper licensing. Tweaking for power and cost can be done by the vendor in almost all cases. Though I would say the cheaper licensing is up for debate since they did not build this from the ground-up, it's still ARM and they are still tied to the ARM roadmap since Apple is not a semiconductor company.
As we move to more powerful mobile devices the edge will shift further and further towards Intel/NV/AMD. It has an air of inevitability about it.
The real reason they did not even consider the Atom right now is very simple and two-fold. Instant backwards compatibility with current platform and stops people from trying to get Windows onto the thing. Very simple reasoning.
I'm so happy they're bringing OmniPlan to the iPad! Now maybe I can legitimately dump MS Project, since I can fit the iPad in my carry-on for travel.giga said:It begins. OmniGroup bringing five of their OS X apps to the iPad: http://blog.omnigroup.com/2010/01/29/ipad-or-bust/
OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, OmniPlan, OmniFocus, and OmniGraphSketcher.
avaya said:
That's not the general consensus.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news...d-the-cloud-how-arm-beat-x86-to-the-punch.ars
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
There's an adapter, check apple.comPrivateWHudson said:
PrivateWHudson
Member
Timbuktu said:
That may be great for some people, but in my household, that would really take the convenience out of things. If I have to spend time hunting around for a dongle, I might as well just pop open the laptop and use that. At that point, why do I even need an iPad?
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
PrivateWHudson said:
Then don't buy one...
PrivateWHudson
Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
I probably won't.
I just love touch screen tech and was hoping that the iPad would be closer to a netbook than a phone.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
PrivateWHudson said:
The same could be said for any tablet that didn't come with a specific slot (CF/SD), or even a Laptop such as mine that doesn't (dv6) - There's a design consideration to reduce the number of slots/connectors on a device like this, a single 30-pin slot with options may be better for some than a multitude of slots that are single use but may miss a particular use further down the line, personally I'll never use SD/CF, so such a slot would be a wasted feature for me, but I would probably use the video out feature, the one-slot-does-all route allows people the tailor such a device to their needs, , obviously for others the reverse is true and the lack of onboard options will weigh against any benefits.
If the iPad acts as a USB Host, and a new form of storage is released, which would be better, a do-it-all connector that could accomodate futures uses via a dongle, or a single use connector that fixes the feature-set at the present, Apple decided to go the open-ended but may need a dongle route.
PrivateWHudson said:
I agree in principle, but not everyone will use an SD slot. I don't have a camera that uses SD. I would like an SD slot on the iPad for more storage but we both know that's not going to happen.
My preference would be a CF slot. and I don't really want that on the device though (I would prefer an SD slot as it's a better looking slot, lol). I may but the connection kit, though (for the USB).
I agree, it's less convenient. There's no arguing that.
Timbuktu said:
I'm looking forward to hearing more info on how this all pans out. For the doc connector it claims to be for cameras only. However what would stop you from hooking up and USB mass storage device? Only thing I can think of is that it only allows you to grab pictures and video?
Regardless, it appears you can also set up some sort of shared drive on your PC/Mac. That is what I'm really curious about. Will this only function as a swap space, or can you directly run music, pics, and video through it? That seems pretty cool either way, though obviously the latter would be the best. It's only downfall is what do you do if you're out somewhere and want to copy something? Obviously those drives won't be setup on someone else's computer ... so you're kind of stuck bringing the dongle with you.
Tobor said:
This assumes the cloud idea really takes off. Further to that, if Intel are hurt by it, it doesn't hurt NV/AMD because by being more graphics intensive plays into their hands.
giga said:
Not going to argue with that either. Right now the old Atom is not suited. I believe the newest version consumes only 500milliwatts but don't quote me on that.
Intel is a long way away from matching ARM on efficiency.
If the tablet concept does take off, the hardware arms race will really begin in earnest.
Raistlin said:
Chances are you will be able to hook up mass storage, but it will only look at, as you say, videos and photos. Specifically, it will probably look for anything that mounts as a digital camera. It will probably be swap space - you can't view stuff on it, just transfer to the iPad.
Why do I think this? Because I have this:
I think longterm, Camera -> internet -> device/computer will become the norm, anyway. That's basically my workflow with my iPhone now. I haven't touched my Pentax in who know's how long, but I'm interested in those Wifi SD cards that automatically post pictures for you from any camera.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Blackface said:
This is all bullshit, of course. You have no clue what the A4 is. You are talking completely out of your ass. [EDIT] And now you are banned. Oh, well...maybe you'll still read this...
The A4 chip is custom. Custom. I'll say it one more time...custom.
Arm didn't design the A4 chip. PA Semi didn't design the A4 chip. Apple did.
Repeat that to yourself if you must, because you seem really terribly ignorant of the facts.
The Apple team that built this chip includes a host of engineers that were already at Apple, plus the brains and probably some design IP that came along with the PA Semi acquisition, plus big-name hires like Mark Papermaster, one of IBM's PowerPC architecture gurus, and Bob Drebin and Raja Koduri, both Chief Technology Officers from AMD, and dozens of other chip industry vets from companies like Samsung, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, IBM, ect.
So, it's not an ARM team, it's not a PA Semi team, it's a whole new team. It's an Apple team.
Yes, it is widely speculated that the core of the chip is based on ARM's IP, and it would make sense considering the platform, but that is still only speculation at this point. The chip could have a custom core based on a wide range of technologies, considering the people behind it's design. Even if the core is ARM-based, that doesn't mean it can be considered the same as any other ARM processor, much like you can't say the PowerMac G5 is the same as a Sony/STI's Cell Processor or Microsoft/IBM's Xenos, even though they are all PowerPC core chips.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Raistlin said:
Two compelling reasons for this -
1. It's generally agreed that you need to be much further back from the screen than you will be with the iPad to appreciate/notice 1080p.
2. iTunes only sells movies in 720p. They don't want to add expense to the display while simultaneously making their download service look bad. Especially for something that nobody but people scouring the spec sheet will really notice anyway.
It pretty much does 720p: 768 x 1024.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
well, isn't that what i said? no operating system's scheduler does process prioritization, not on a macro level anyway. everything a scheduler does is make sure that the computational resources processes are given correspond to some pre-established picture of priorities, that's all. as such, the question of background/foreground/only-on-weekends/etc is not the scheduler's business. but that does not mean the question does not stand as such - it clearly does in a work-oriented environment.tfur said:
how many priorities a process/thread can have with a preemptive scheduler does not really solve the fundamental problem of meta-prioritization. the latter concerns the problem of particular work done per unit of time.
whether the ipad, per se, requires a paradigm shift or not is one thing. but whenever the question of workload efficiency stands, the paradigm gets a shift away from dumb multitasking. there's a reason why many real-time, workload-oriented environments are cooperative-multitasking; with cooperative multitasking the question of work done per unit of time is inherently connected to activity-oriented scheduling - that's what cooperation is. preemptive environments try to mimic activity-oriented scheduling, and often fail. at the end of the day closed, cooperative ecosystems are the most work-efficient thing people have invented so far. this is one of the reason why outer-space exploration robots run cooperative-multitasking RT OSes and not embedded linux, solaris, or any other unix flavor ; )
nobody knows anything yet. the only educated guess one can make at this point is that the A4 is probably an A9 derivative design, largely a responsibility of PA semi.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
Not true unfortunately, 720p is 1280 pixels wide. - Its close, but not strictly HD.
Technosteve
Banned
mrkgoo said:
there were rumors that apple bought a huge quantity of cameras last year, my guess itouch, ipad, ipod nano are getting camera support this xmas.
LiveFromKyoto said:
Well, 'doing' HD is different from displaying it. Hd is defined as 1280x720p. Content like this will have to be scaled to fit on the display. Of course a lot of movies aren't that aspect ratio, but they're still 1280 wide.
Displaying it is not necessarily about appreciating it. If the iPad can play a 1920x1080p video, and you have that level of content, then you don't have to transcode - the device will just play it. Transcoding may be more or less trivial, but since the iPad is a syncing device, it'd be nice not to have to have two copies of files on your computer (one original, one transcoded for the iPad).
For me it's not a big issue, however. I don't have that much 1080p content. For sure, it may be more prevalent (blu-ray rips, or maybe iTunes will upgrade for 1080p sales), but when that day comes, Apple will likely sell an iPad that can do it.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
LiveFromKyoto said:
I think he means outputting to a second display such as a tv which it can only do 480p/576p (or whatever it is that europe uses).
Edit: Seems I may have misunderstood.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
mrkgoo said:
If the iPod touch and everything else does then I can't see how this will be any different for it'll definitely do videos and the such.
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
I don't think the touch can play HD movies.
Also, Macrumours reports Apple correcting the promotion ads to show NO FLASH.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/30/apple-corrects-ipad-promo-video-to-show-no-flash-capability/
:lol.
It's like:
Apple - no flash.
People - hmm. Maybe. I see flash in some promos. Hmm. Maybe.
Apple - NO FLASH.
It's like a firm statement.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Kibbles said:
Not HD, just 480p using the $60 or so component cable from apple. It's not worth the money IMO, that's what stopped me a couple months ago from buying it.
mrkgoo said:
I never said HD, they both can only do the 480p/576p that I said before when outputting. That's what I thought he meant when he said can't output in HD.
LiveFromKyoto said:
Well, it doesn't have 1080p res anyway. I simply meant for compatibility, since people don't really want to have a 1080p and 720p version of a file laying around.
When I think about it though, that is coming more from the client/server mentality I have. This device won't be streaming, so as long as iTunes can transcode a 1080p movie when syncing, I'd have no problem with it.
Yeah, I can understand that. In hindsight, as long is there is a simple way to get 1080p content converted to 720p and on the iPad, it's fine.
This part however, I'm disappointed in. While I'm fine with the screen res (though I would have preferred a widescreen aspect ratio - the iPad already has a fairly substantial bezel on it ... when viewing HD material, it's exasperated), the fact it can't output 720p is annoying to me.
[Derail]
In the future, I envision this sort of tablet device as having some sort of wireless connection (wireless HDMI, etc), so you can simply transmit photos and movies to a TV, as well as transmit music to a stereo.
Now that would be awesome
[/Derail]
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Vennt said:
Yeah, that's why I added the "pretty much" - wider in one direction, narrower in another, but there'll have to be some compromise - letterboxing/reformatting. In that sense he's right, it is an odd design choice; it couldn't have altered the form factor irreparably to just stick to a 720 template.
Raistlin said:
It seems pretty clear that portable media server wasn't really one of the main functions they had in mind when they built this thing. The storage isn't really there, especially for 1080p media - that probably played a part in their decision.
But if the demand is there it's definitely an avenue they can explore in the future, when they start getting up to larger memory models.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
mrkgoo said:
There are already streaming server apps that allow you to stream from PC to iPod/iPhone, such as Wowza and Locura - Basically the same as using PS3 Media Server for streaming / transcoding except for iPod/iPhones rather than PS3.
(Note: You have to have an 802.11n WiFi network for this, b/g just doesn't cut it, I know, I tried, an exercise in extreme frustration, enough to get me to upgrade to 11n
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