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[mrkgoo]

I doubt Google moved into their market because Apple blocked a couple of their apps, and that was probably AT&T's idea anyway. It was alway inevitable that Google would move into every market sooner or latter.

Yeah, like it was likely that Google decided they'd create an entire mobile OS and cellphone because google voice was 'still in review' (yeah right). :lol. The answer is that they're google. They do EVERYTHING.

Tis a shame, because I like google products, and I can see in future Steve just being Steve and blocking out Google services like maps and search as default options. There must be a reason why they're acquiring maps and navigation properties. Apple don't want to rely on competitors services to sell their own products.

 

[Kintaro]

As slick as this thing, I wish I could imagine typing content, editing images and such on it. Would be nice. =/

 

[Sobriquet]

I don't think that Google wouldn't have moved in, but I think their disputes with Apple over some of their apps made Google sort of set their targets on Apple rather than just entering to get a piece of the pie. Clearly Android was out and starting to spread, but I really think Apple pissing off Google certainly had an effect on their focus now.

I think Jobs got pissed when it became apparent that Google, whose Eric Schmidt sat on the Apple Board of Directors, would release a phone operating system.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Yeah, like it was likely that Google decided they'd create an entire mobile OS and cellphone because google voice was 'still in review' (yeah right). :lol. The answer is that they're google. They do EVERYTHING.

Tis a shame, because I like google products, and I can see in future Steve just being Steve and blocking out Google services like maps and search as default options. There must be a reason why they're acquiring maps and navigation properties. Apple don't want to rely on competitors services to sell their own products.

Are we forgetting the timeline here? Android existed long before the Google Voice app dispute. The Google Voice app dispute went as far as public statements from Google questioning the situation and the FCC getting involved. It was a huge deal that I'm sure Google wasn't happy about how Apple handled it.

 

[mrkgoo]

Are we forgetting the timeline here? Android existed long before the Google Voice app dispute. The Google Voice app dispute went as far as public statements from Google questioning the situation and the FCC getting involved. It was a huge deal that I'm sure Google wasn't happy about how Apple handled it.

I was going ask you the exact same thing. Android HAS been around before the Google voice conflict. I was getting confused, but I figured out where this discussion went astray.

It started with:

its kinda sad two of my favorite companies are fighting

Google why did you have to start a fight with Apple?

You then said:

Isn't it because Apple blocked Google apps? Wouldn't that be Apple's fault?

Then:

I doubt Google moved into their market because Apple blocked a couple of their apps, and that was probably AT&T's idea anyway. It was alway inevitable that Google would move into every market sooner or latter.

Timbuktu thought you were referring to Google's entry into the market rather than the little spat. And I was just following his line of discussion.

It's clear now you mean just the Google Voice spat.

I can see where Timbuktu got it from (and myself), as we had just been reading Steve's comment about going to war with google because google entered 'their' space (which I assume was what Smiles and Cries was going on about to begin with).

But yes, it would be sort of Apple's fault with the voice thing. Who knows, the argument was an odd one, because Google had to have known what would happen by making an app, and I guess from Apple's point of view, they started it proper by bringing in the FCC. I'm not taking sides here. Apple is an odd company like that, when you have it spearheaded by a crazy person. I don't really like to think of Apple as just Steve Jobs, but sometimes the company does some outlandish things that just seem to come from his one mind.

 

[SnakeXs]

As slick as this thing, I wish I could imagine typing content, editing images and such on it. Would be nice. =/

1) There's a dock and bluetooth for that.

2) There's an app for that.

 

[Kintaro]

1) There's a dock and bluetooth for that.

2) There's an app for that.

I'm sure there is.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Not being able to copy and paste, annotate and make notes on the iBooks app seems like a missed opportunity. I imagine that it's something they'd introduce shortly after launch especially when you consider students would need it for text books and work.

 

[rezuth]

So since html5 is the future can the iPhone/ipad support animations/sites using it as is?

Pretty sure it has done that since it came out.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Not being able to copy and paste, annotate and make notes on the iBooks app seems like a missed opportunity. I imagine that it's something they'd introduce shortly after launch especially when you consider students would need it for text books and work.

how do you know you can't? The book app didn't even have a search feature so this whole product is far from finished. I was worried about not seeing a dictionary/spell checker though

 

[mrkgoo]

how do you know you can't? The book app didn't even have a search feature so this whole product is far from finished. I was worried about not seeing a dictionary/spell checker though

This or bust. I's a killer app within an app for me.

Just tap a word and hold or something. I use cmd+ctrl+D on the mac all the time.

 

[numble]

Are we forgetting the timeline here? Android existed long before the Google Voice app dispute. The Google Voice app dispute went as far as public statements from Google questioning the situation and the FCC getting involved. It was a huge deal that I'm sure Google wasn't happy about how Apple handled it.

It was a whole deal where the FCC questioned AT&T, Apple, and Google (for blocking certain apps on Android). Nobody came out of it smelling like roses.

But a big issue is how Google's CEO. Eric Schmidt, was on Apple's board, and it's generally a no-no (actually against the law unless agreed to otherwise) for a company's own board members to compete with the company's business. This is why Schmidt left the board this past year. It's a big deal: In 2007, Schmidt was on stage at the keynote helping to unveil the iPhone and saying things like, "I've had the privilege of joining the board and there's a lot of relationships... if we merge the companies we can call it Applegoo -- but I'm not a marketing guy. You can actually merge without merging. Each company should do the absolutely best thing they can do every time, and he's shown it today." Two years later he's leaving the board because they're beginning to compete in the same market.

 

[SnakeXs]

Pretty sure it has done that since it came out.

Really? Do you have any sites where I can try to play a directly embedded videos in the iPhone browser? I mean I hope <video> embeds are implemented, but I was not aware that it worked as of yet.

Edit: Using the mobile version of Vimeo worked just fine. Consider me impressed. Not quite embedded, but it works. The desktop version doesn't. A hopeful UI loads which had my jaw dropped, but once you tap it a "not gonna play" symbol with the QT icon in the bottom right shows.

 

[wolfmat]

Really? Do you have any sites where I can try to play a directly embedded videos in the iPhone browser? I mean I hope <video> embeds are implemented, but I was not aware that it worked as of yet.

Edit: Using the mobile version of Vimeo worked just fine. Consider me impressed. Not quite embedded, but it works. The desktop version doesn't. A hopeful UI loads which had my jaw dropped, but once you tap it a "not gonna play" symbol with the QT icon in the bottom right shows.

Check out http://iphone.dailymotion.com/ - that works, at least with FF.

 

[SnakeXs]

Check out http://iphone.dailymotion.com/ - that works, at least with FF.

Yeah, again iPhone version works fine, no luck trying to keep it desktop though.

While these steps are absolutely magnificent, it raises a question. Will the desktop versions be tweaked to work, or work inside the page itself, for the iPad? Will the iPhone versions scale up to the iPad?

But still, this is a very good start.

 

[rezuth]

Check out http://iphone.dailymotion.com/ - that works, at least with FF.

Gametrailers work also I think

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Some of the complaints across the internet about this thing are just idiotic. They expect it to do everything and have the capabilities of a full blown desktop.

how do you know you can't? The book app didn't even have a search feature so this whole product is far from finished. I was worried about not seeing a dictionary/spell checker though

That's what one of the Apple reps said on that slashgear hands on video but given the whole thing is still buggy I imagine that it would be something they'd add on release or just after.

 

[SnakeXs]

Gametrailers work also I think

Worst implementation yet. Only some videos have mp4 versions, but it doesn't let you know that, so I can see people going, and if they try 1 video and it doesn't work/says to DL Flash, they'd give up.

Then of the 4 videos with iPhone versions, 2 worked. The other 2 just said "Movie cannot be played" once the video player popped in.

But hey, the more the merrier. Baby steps, I adore them.

 

[rezuth]

Worst implementation yet. Only some videos have mp4 versions, but it doesn't let you know that, so I can see people going, and if they try 1 video and it doesn't work/says to DL Flash, they'd give up.

Then of the 4 videos with iPhone versions, 2 worked. The other 2 just said "Movie cannot be played" once the video player popped in.

But hey, the more the merrier. Baby steps, I adore them.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Some of the complaints across the internet about this thing are just idiotic. They expect it to do everything and have the capabilities of a full blown desktop.


That's what one of the Apple reps said on that slashgear hands on video but given the whole thing is still buggy I imagine that it would be something they'd add on release or just after.

lol skipped that part of the video!

Why has it got a mute button?

 

[RoH]

Berry berry long Hands On video. Peep it with your peepers, now I'm going to sleepers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JPTaoDwOz4

After watching this; I have to to the conclusion that I will not be creating documents on this; maybe consuming, but not creating.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

After watching this; I have to to the conclusion that I will not be creating documents on this; maybe consuming, but not creating.

Well it depends on the interface which could be spectacular in the hands of a talented developer, so never say never.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Well it depends on the interface which could be spectacular in the hands of a talented developer, so never say never.

That's the thing I took away from that demo. The apps need to "catch up" to the reality of a bigger screen/processor.

 

[mrklaw]

After watching this; I have to to the conclusion that I will not be creating documents on this; maybe consuming, but not creating.

I wouldn't expect to choose to create something on it, but its good to know you can if you need to, and I expect it'd be fine for tweaking a presentation or making some edits

 

[Mik2121]

After watching this; I have to to the conclusion that I will not be creating documents on this; maybe consuming, but not creating.

I believe one of the worst problems is that the girl explaining it sucks (apparently she has not have much time to get used to it yet?). The other problem is that you seem to resize everything with the finger clicking on one of the corners and expanding from there, so chances are you might end up with completely differently sized stuff that doesn't align well, but I hope they let you set up exact digits instead of just expanding it with your finger.

Other than that, the tablet itself is so damn hot... but after seeing what happened with the iPhone, I think I will wait until the second generation or even third, depending on how it has improved. Don't know if I will be able to actually wait, but that's the idea, at least..

(Camera and Stylus, and it would make the iPad an incredibly hot item, for me at least)

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

In the mossberg video someone posted in another thread it gets 140 hours of audio playback? That's insane.

 

[Keylime]

In the mossberg video someone posted in another thread it gets 140 hours of audio playback? That's insane.

The number is hard to care about even if it's true considering I don't think anyone is going to use this as a dedicated MP3 player :lol

I'd use the HD space for movies/apps/books/docs only, no music. Still plan on having my iPhone on my hip 24/7, so music is always with me when I need it.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

The other problem is that you seem to resize everything with the finger clicking on one of the corners and expanding from there, so chances are you might end up with completely differently sized stuff that doesn't align well, but I hope they let you set up exact digits instead of just expanding it with your finger.

(Camera and Stylus, and it would make the iPad an incredibly hot item, for me at least)

1) In the key note it's shown you can align with anything in the document
2) There will never be 1st party support for a stylus. Multi-touch is a huge thing for Apple and a stylus kills that.

A camera is at most I expect in a rev.b

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

The number is hard to care about even if it's true considering I don't think anyone is going to use this as a dedicated MP3 player :lol

I'd use the HD space for movies/apps/books/docs only, no music. Still plan on having my iPhone on my hip 24/7, so music is always with me when I need it.

Ya, definitely but it's still amazing how much more audio you could play if you chose that or how very little of the overall battery life is affected by playing music and say something else.

 

[SnakeXs]

Ya, definitely but it's still amazing how much more audio you could play if you chose that or how very little of the overall battery life is affected by playing music and say something else.

Yeah the background tasks probably use a super tiny amount of processing, and the screen is a huuuuuuuuuge power drain at that size/type.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yeah the background tasks probably use a super tiny amount of processing, and the screen is a huuuuuuuuuge power drain at that size/type.

Definitely but they also have more room to put in a bigger battery at that size which is why we get the times we do.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Sorry if old

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/30/omnigroup-commits-to-bring-five-productivity-apps-to-ipad/

OmniPlan for Mac OS X

In a blog post, Omni Group has committed to bringing five of their productivity apps to the iPad including OmniGraffle, OmniOutliner, OmniPlan, OmniFocus, and OmniGraphSketcher.
Remember how Macintosh was intended to be the computer "for the rest of us"? That's what we feel Apple’s iPad is: the best computing device for most of the things people use computers for. (Or, as Apple puts it, "the best way to experience the web, email, and photos.") It’s the computer people can sit down and start using immediately, without training, whether they're 2 or 92.

We're really excited about Apple’s iPad, and we want to make all of our products available for it as soon as we can.

The Omni Group started life as NeXTStep developers back in 1989. The company made the transition to Apple when Apple acquired NeXT in 1997 and made NeXTStep the basis for Mac OS X.

Omni Group had only previously brought OmniFocus to the iPhone which won a Best of Show Award at Macworld 2008. Obviously, their iPad commitment is far more significant which includes applications which range from project management, diagrams/flowcharts, outlines, and personal task management. Their plans to aggressively move to the iPad will actually delay some future Mac versions of their software.

First exciting news, IMHO.

 

[Raistlin]

Damn I love how Steve is so blunt. He had to know this was gonna leak out, it's almost like he's publicly declaring war on Google.

While it may not have been shouted throughout the streets, war was declared when Android was created.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31/steve-jobs-at-apple-town-hall-meeting-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/


Steve Jobs held a town hall meeting with Apple employees late last week following the iPad launch. Wired reports on what was said at the meeting by Steve Jobs. Two of the biggest topics included Google and Adobe.

On Google, Jobs confirms the much-reported competition between the two companies.

On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won't let them, he says.

As for Adobe, Jobs said they are lazy and Jobs blames Adobe for a buggy implementation of Flash on the Mac as one of the reasons they won't support it.

Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it&#146;s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.
Those are the main points covered by Wired's article. We had received a more detailed report of the Apple meeting, but hadn't been able to corroborate it until now. Many of the details of the Wired report line up with our anonymous submission, so we believe it likely to be accurate. Some additional key points that we learned:

- Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone that Android/Google won't be able to keep up with
- iPad is up there with the iPhone and Mac as the most important products Jobs has been a part of
- Regarding the Lala acquisition, Apple was interested in bringing those people into the iTunes team
- Next iPhone coming is an A+ update
- New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level
- Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it.

 

[blu]

I really don't see what the RTOS tangent has to do with anything.

apologies from me too. buy hey, what do we have left to talk about when the darn thing was announced two months in advance to launch, with as little nerd-worthy details as humanly possible? tangents ensue.

ok, let me be more on topic. i know people got banned for blatantly trolling the device (for shame, as i was enjoying their posts immensely - newsletter fanclub was a good idea), but since some other, erm, 'news outlets' seem to share the same mindset (yes, i'm talking of BSN), let me show how clueless such positions are (the ones claiming apple did a lego job on off-the-shelf ARM tech).

first, here's an EE times piece on the possibilities of apple being an ARM architecture licensee: http://www.eetimes.eu/209900392 . to summarize it - chances are pretty darn high apple have been an ARM architecture licensee for a couple of years now.

for the non-nerd readers: an ARM architecture licensee is a status allowing a company to implement the respective ARM ISAs they have licensed in a quantum computer, if they see fit. also, PA semi doing nothing but slapping together ready ARM designs seems like a huge waste of money (that went into their acquisition) - the same could've been done by samsung, with whom apple have been working for some time now. so much for that 'apple slapped together ARM tech' stuff. yeah, i know, elementary logic and basic deduction are too much to expect from a site like BSN - they'd much rather gloat over catching SJ of using the wrong term for a CPU (i.e. A4 being a SoC rather than a CPU).

and here's my uneducated guess as of what might be the nerd-worthy details of the device:

* CPU resources- quite likely single cpu core in this first incarnation, but don't be shocked to see 2x or 4x configurations in future iterations. the reason i'm thinking it's single core now is that a 1GHz A9-class CPU (moreover - god knows how much beefed up by PA semi) would handle the typical workloads of such a device gracefully.
* RAM memory - i'd wager 512MB. the fact the device runs a highly-optimized mobile os gives it the luxury of not needing 1GB of RAM to boot.
* GPU - i'm guessing a beefy SGX here (yeah, mali 50 - right) - something along the performance point of 535@200MHz (not necessarily this model, of course)
* dedicated video codec silicon (that's what handles the HD movies - the darn CPU would not need move a finger there, contrary to armchair expertise).

and last but not least - a sw prediction.. in my crystal ball i see the app sandboxing model loosening up, allowing for apps to share their docs with other apps.. ; )

 

[SnakeXs]

I'm pretty sure tons of sources are reporting that it's 2 cores, but I guess nothing's solid enough to be definitive.

 

[blu]

I'm pretty sure tons of sources are reporting that it's 2 cores, but I guess nothing's solid enough to be definitive.

i would not use the term 'reporting' when it comes to somebody guessing of something ; )

but yes, of course, there's a chance that the current A4 is dual core. maybe that was what PA semi managed to achieve - bring down the power draw of two A9-class CPUs to single-core-like levels.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I've always taken Android as an attempt to bury WinMo, not the compete with the iPhone-- at least not on Google's part. Otherwise, wouldn't google make Maps on Android better than it is on the iPhone?

 

[SuperPac]

Maybe the whole Flash argument is played out (and at this point I'm convinced people want it for two reasons, Hulu and porn), but Gruber and Scoble have some interesting blog posts about it.

Gruber: Who can do something about those blue boxes?

Scoble: Can Flash Be Saved?

Main point seems to be that if there's enough pressure to stop supporting Flash things will change. Plus, there's this - Flash's Decline on Lifehacker from 2006-2010. Yes this is small percentages, but if the trend continues in that direction there will be a tipping point.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.

Came here to post this so it's nice to see that someone got to it first. This position makes sense. The direction that the internet should be headed and Flash are not currently on the same path. The web standards people over the years have proved to be quite powerless, so I'm glad that Apple is making a stand here. Flash simply isn't good enough, and there are other things that can accomplish what Flash can do better than Flash can.

Performance issues aside there are the obvious interface ones as well. (Some) designers love Flash because you can implement any sort of crazy innovative interface that you'd like. This is no good for the iPad however. If touch computing is to become popular and accessible to the masses however, touch interface needs to be standardised and easy and obvious.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I understand the whole Flash debate and I am sure that if all us (even the Flash haters) could have a choice of it being included, even as an option, we would rather have it than not. Honestly, my biggest concern with the device isn't Flash but like many others, typing. It seems like there are quite a few people who really would love to be able to use this for note taking in class or what have you. I understand the key board dock but I don't know, I wish they would have truly been creative and included a truly revolutionary way of a lay out that would be comfortable for typing on this thing. That is my main concern.

 

[SnakeXs]

Maybe the whole Flash argument is played out (and at this point I'm convinced people want it for two reasons, Hulu and porn), but Gruber and Scoble have some interesting blog posts about it.

Gruber: Who can do something about those blue boxes?

Scoble: Can Flash Be Saved?

Main point seems to be that if there's enough pressure to stop supporting Flash things will change. Plus, there's this - Flash's Decline on Lifehacker from 2006-2010. Yes this is small percentages, but if the trend continues in that direction there will be a tipping point.

I love it. So much.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Came here to post this so it's nice to see that someone got to it first. This position makes sense. The direction that the internet should be headed and Flash are not currently on the same path. The web standards people over the years have proved to be quite powerless, so I'm glad that Apple is making a stand here. Flash simply isn't good enough, and there are other things that can accomplish what Flash can do better than Flash can.

Performance issues aside there are the obvious interface ones as well. (Some) designers love Flash because you can implement any sort of crazy innovative interface that you'd like. This is no good for the iPad however. If touch computing is to become popular and accessible to the masses however, touch interface needs to be standardised and easy and obvious.

Yup, its a predicament to be in. Obviously we want to push the envelope of invention and technology. If a standard like Flash is buggy and not favored by many then it should be passed on for another. Unfortunately like any piece of new technology it takes a nice bit of time for it to catch on. Should Apple include Flash even though its buggy in order to give the customers the option while trying to push another? Like you said, a big corporation has to take a stand in order to get the ball rolling. Its just unfortunate that while this takes place we will be unable to visit the websites that still depend on Flash while the transition is taking place.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Yup, its a predicament to be in. Obviously we want to push the envelope of invention and technology. If a standard like Flash is buggy and not favored by many then it should be passed on for another. Unfortunately like any piece of new technology it takes a nice bit of time for it to catch on. Should Apple include Flash even though its buggy in order to give the customers the option while trying to push another? Like you said, a big corporation has to take a stand in order to get the ball rolling. Its just unfortunate that while this takes place we will be unable to visit the websites that still depend on Flash while the transition is taking place.

As listed from SuperPac's Gruber article the list of sites that are so heavily dependent that they don't work on an Apple device are getting smaller and smaller. My feeling is that by the end of 2010 there will be none.

For example Farmville. I would be extremely surprised if there wasn't a dedicated Farmville app released this year.

 

[D4Danger]

Maybe the whole Flash argument is played out (and at this point I'm convinced people want it for two reasons, Hulu and porn), but Gruber and Scoble have some interesting blog posts about it.

Gruber: Who can do something about those blue boxes?

Scoble: Can Flash Be Saved?

Main point seems to be that if there's enough pressure to stop supporting Flash things will change. Plus, there's this - Flash's Decline on Lifehacker from 2006-2010. Yes this is small percentages, but if the trend continues in that direction there will be a tipping point.

I guess it's not surprising that so many people are willing to regurgitate Apple's bullshit.

It's like their own little volunteer PR company.

 

[Tobor]

I guess it's not surprising that so many people are willing to regurgitate Apple's bullshit.

It's like their own little volunteer PR company.

So now Robert Scoble is an Apple fanboy? :lol Come on, dude.

 

[D4Danger]

So now Robert Scoble is an Apple fanboy? :lol Come on, dude.

did I say that?

I said 'Apple's bullshit'. In regards to killing Flash/not including it

I thought It was clear enough since that's what I was quoting.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

did I say that?

I said 'Apple's bullshit'. In regards to killing Flash/not including it

I thought It was clear enough since that's what I was quoting.

What you quoted included his article, so...

 

[Tobor]

did I say that?

I said 'Apple's bullshit'. In regards to killing Flash/not including it

I thought It was clear enough since that's what I was quoting.

No, it's not clear at all what you were trying to say. Sorry.

 

[Schlep]

The Flash exclusion reminds me of there not being a floppy on the iMac when it was released. Floppies might have been a little bit closer to death than Flash is, but there wasn't a computer in the world that didn't have a floppy drive outside of a select few sub-notebooks.

Say Apple did allow Flash as an option, and you were able to get 3 hours or so of watching Hulu out of it before the battery died. Would that be ideal? What if it also caused Safari to chug and/or crash the way it does on the Mac, what then? If a web developer is savvy enough to implement flash videos across their site, they should be savvy enough to start offering an HTML5 option or a link to an h264 version. Web designers are behind the curve here.