-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Are Games Better Than Ever?
- Thread starter Patrick Young
- Start date
sixteen-bit
Member
The best is yet to come.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
No. But they aren't worse. My favorite games are spread very far over the last decades.
There are still (very) old games on top of many genres for me. For example Baldur's Gate 2 for WRPGs. Freespace 2 for Space Combat Games. Counter-Strike for tactical Shooters. Warcraft 3 for RTS and so on.
But then there are games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Xenoblade, God of War 3, Bloodborne and Horizon: Zero Dawn that are among my favorite games of all time.
So I'd say it's very balanced over the last decades.
There are still (very) old games on top of many genres for me. For example Baldur's Gate 2 for WRPGs. Freespace 2 for Space Combat Games. Counter-Strike for tactical Shooters. Warcraft 3 for RTS and so on.
But then there are games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Xenoblade, God of War 3, Bloodborne and Horizon: Zero Dawn that are among my favorite games of all time.
So I'd say it's very balanced over the last decades.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
It's always the best time because you can still play all the old games
Considering that many of the classics are still available to be enjoyed now and that there are new games almost every day, yes games are better than ever. The variety is astonishing even if some of my favourite genres have fallen out of favour there are still plenty to look forward to and more to try out and experience.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Jup, 2017 has been rocking the boat. I can hardly catch up. Really depressing when you are both a PC and console/handheld gamer. 24 hours just ain't enough.
NullPointer
Member
That too - well most of them anyways.It's always the best time because you can still play all the old games
And I'll also include remasters in here, which I enjoy.
No reason an evergreen title has to stay exactly as it was in terms of visuals and performance. Adding a new coat of paint and solving bottlenecks on newer consoles is a sign of respect for those games. Backwards compatibility is awesome, but I prefer remasters when they're available.
Monomythian
Neo Member
Yes. Absolutely.
The predatory skinner box micro transactions trend is a small price to pay when the quality, price, selection, and convenience of gaming, particularly on steam, is now so high that customers tend to buy more then they realistically have time to play.
The predatory skinner box micro transactions trend is a small price to pay when the quality, price, selection, and convenience of gaming, particularly on steam, is now so high that customers tend to buy more then they realistically have time to play.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
True. Most of the games I listed have remasters or evolved into something fresh without losing their identity (Counter-Strike).
Also: mod-support on old pc-games bring many improvements.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
This is one of those questions where the answer will really great depend on when you were born and what your experience with games has been.
No question that now is the best ever time for gaming simply because all those games in the past also still exist.
whether or not you think current games are better depends on a bunch of things. My top 5 games of all time are (in no order)
Xcom (90s original)
SF2 (arcade)
Bloodborne
Unreal Tournament
battlefield 1942
all very different and bloodborne is very new.
Now I would say that side by side the new xcom is better than the old one. However my memories of the orignal and the era in which I played it are big factors to how I feel about it and its quality as a game.
I will say that being younger and growing up with games from this era you are absolutely spoiled for choice. However I personally see it in a different way. A lot of people have mentioned how this year is amazing for games. Personally not much has interested me as I feel its all just itterations on what I have seen before. No doubt they are great games but they dont hold my interest. I fell off persona 5 after the first dungeon despite loving P3 and P4G. Destiny 2 was fun but I have played these kind of games for years. Horizon is one of the only games this year I completed and its great. Not greatest of all time or anything but a really good game. It had enough unique things that made it a new experience. However it was still riddled with stuff straight out of a far cry game.
So its an impossible question to answer in a gerneral way. My golden era was prob the 90's to early 2000's. Games have got better but my strongest memories of great games are from back then. What games achieved compaired to expectations is a large factor in how impressed you are with them. In 15 years time it will be interesting to see what people thing of this generation compared to what exists then. I am already at a point where I see amazing visuals and mostly just think "well yeah, of course it looks great, thats how games look now".
No question that now is the best ever time for gaming simply because all those games in the past also still exist.
whether or not you think current games are better depends on a bunch of things. My top 5 games of all time are (in no order)
Xcom (90s original)
SF2 (arcade)
Bloodborne
Unreal Tournament
battlefield 1942
all very different and bloodborne is very new.
Now I would say that side by side the new xcom is better than the old one. However my memories of the orignal and the era in which I played it are big factors to how I feel about it and its quality as a game.
I will say that being younger and growing up with games from this era you are absolutely spoiled for choice. However I personally see it in a different way. A lot of people have mentioned how this year is amazing for games. Personally not much has interested me as I feel its all just itterations on what I have seen before. No doubt they are great games but they dont hold my interest. I fell off persona 5 after the first dungeon despite loving P3 and P4G. Destiny 2 was fun but I have played these kind of games for years. Horizon is one of the only games this year I completed and its great. Not greatest of all time or anything but a really good game. It had enough unique things that made it a new experience. However it was still riddled with stuff straight out of a far cry game.
So its an impossible question to answer in a gerneral way. My golden era was prob the 90's to early 2000's. Games have got better but my strongest memories of great games are from back then. What games achieved compaired to expectations is a large factor in how impressed you are with them. In 15 years time it will be interesting to see what people thing of this generation compared to what exists then. I am already at a point where I see amazing visuals and mostly just think "well yeah, of course it looks great, thats how games look now".
Following the pseudo-objective thinking that old games have not ceased to exist and most are still playable, of course it's a great time to be gaming -- but that absolutely doesn't mean that games themselves are better today.
My top 100 list would look very different from yours, OP. That's not to say it would have no recent games, but they would certainly be dwarfed in number by true classics. I don't know I can think of a single genre that has had its "best game ever" in this generation.
Design is a complicated beast; it just as often moves backward or sideways as it does forward. There's no guarantee that a modern developer is more talented or creative than a developer of days past, and that's what counts most -- not technical improvements.
Art doesn't progress linearly (or even necessarily at all), and games are no exception. "Art" in this medium can mean any element you like, whether it's games as a whole, music, visual art, game design, or storytelling. In none of those cases are games today guaranteed to be better than games of the 80s or 90s. There are countless games released this generation that are less beautiful than Yoshi's Island, less well-told than A Mind Forever Voyaging, less well-designed than Fire Emblem 5, less pleasing to the ear than Metal Gear Solid, or of weaker overall quality than Mega Man 2. All of this is true no matter whether you look in the indie, AAA, or mobile spaces, or anywhere in between.
My top 100 list would look very different from yours, OP. That's not to say it would have no recent games, but they would certainly be dwarfed in number by true classics. I don't know I can think of a single genre that has had its "best game ever" in this generation.
Design is a complicated beast; it just as often moves backward or sideways as it does forward. There's no guarantee that a modern developer is more talented or creative than a developer of days past, and that's what counts most -- not technical improvements.
Art doesn't progress linearly (or even necessarily at all), and games are no exception. "Art" in this medium can mean any element you like, whether it's games as a whole, music, visual art, game design, or storytelling. In none of those cases are games today guaranteed to be better than games of the 80s or 90s. There are countless games released this generation that are less beautiful than Yoshi's Island, less well-told than A Mind Forever Voyaging, less well-designed than Fire Emblem 5, less pleasing to the ear than Metal Gear Solid, or of weaker overall quality than Mega Man 2. All of this is true no matter whether you look in the indie, AAA, or mobile spaces, or anywhere in between.
eXistor
Member
Funny, because I'm playing these games thinking the exact opposite.
Brotherhood93
Member
It's always going to be hard to beat nostalgia. It's so easy to fall into the trap of thinking the games you played as a kid were the best and that "they don't make them like they used to" but I think that, 9 times out of 10, when you go back to an old game you find parts of it that just don't hold up or have been significantly improved upon over time.
Having said that, games are something that are often a product of their time due to constantly evolving technology. If a game came out in 2007 and was a 10/10 but doesn't hold up as well as a 9/10 in 2017 does that make the 2017 game better? I'm not sure on the answer to that. A game like Horizon: Zero Dawn with the same level of graphics, AI and overall polish would not have been possible 10 years ago but if it had come out then it would be held in even higher regard than it is now despite there being no difference in quality.
I would say that, objectively, games are better today than they have ever been which is in large part due to the technological advances over time however I think if you judge them within the time they were released it is a different argument. Games are better than ever but games also have more potential than ever, it could be argued games don't reach their potential as much as they have in the past although I'm not sure I would agree with that either.
TL;DR It's complicated.
Having said that, games are something that are often a product of their time due to constantly evolving technology. If a game came out in 2007 and was a 10/10 but doesn't hold up as well as a 9/10 in 2017 does that make the 2017 game better? I'm not sure on the answer to that. A game like Horizon: Zero Dawn with the same level of graphics, AI and overall polish would not have been possible 10 years ago but if it had come out then it would be held in even higher regard than it is now despite there being no difference in quality.
I would say that, objectively, games are better today than they have ever been which is in large part due to the technological advances over time however I think if you judge them within the time they were released it is a different argument. Games are better than ever but games also have more potential than ever, it could be argued games don't reach their potential as much as they have in the past although I'm not sure I would agree with that either.
TL;DR It's complicated.
Correctomundo
Member
That's not the way I see it. Maybe it's because flashier technology doesn't impress me, but Im willing to bet that my top 100 (as if I could seriously determine that) would be practically inverted, with only a smattering of games made in the last 20 years... less from the last 10.
It's gotten really bad this generation, where my mind keeps wandering back to older games while I'm playing the newer "better" games. Like, I enjoyed Doom 2016. Quite a lot, actually. But I just recently finished up my millionth replay of the original Doom (this time via the BFG Edition in backwards compatibility), and found it to be so much more pure. More entertaining. And more rewarding to play. It isn't just Doom, either. Hell, as crazy as I am about the EDF series, I still don't think they hold a candle to the games I find I keep thinking of when I'm away from home. The problem is that those games are at least 13 years old.
So why do I keep buying and playing the new stuff? Fuck if I know. Maybe obligation? A sense of duty to finish off my backlog and see what the fuss is about? Hard to say, but the notion that games are better than ever is just completely absurd to me. I think the medium is in a downward spiral currently. They look better, but they sure as hell don't feel better. From my vantage point as a gaming enthusiast, that's not overall better.
I'll fully admit to being one of those guys that thinks games don't age. I don't think there's any such thing as "unplayable" or "dated by today's standards". Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I see absolutely nothing about gaming over the last several years that's done anything to improve the quality of the artform, and nothing over the last couple hardware generations that would make me feel like now is the place to be.
It's gotten really bad this generation, where my mind keeps wandering back to older games while I'm playing the newer "better" games. Like, I enjoyed Doom 2016. Quite a lot, actually. But I just recently finished up my millionth replay of the original Doom (this time via the BFG Edition in backwards compatibility), and found it to be so much more pure. More entertaining. And more rewarding to play. It isn't just Doom, either. Hell, as crazy as I am about the EDF series, I still don't think they hold a candle to the games I find I keep thinking of when I'm away from home. The problem is that those games are at least 13 years old.
So why do I keep buying and playing the new stuff? Fuck if I know. Maybe obligation? A sense of duty to finish off my backlog and see what the fuss is about? Hard to say, but the notion that games are better than ever is just completely absurd to me. I think the medium is in a downward spiral currently. They look better, but they sure as hell don't feel better. From my vantage point as a gaming enthusiast, that's not overall better.
I'll fully admit to being one of those guys that thinks games don't age. I don't think there's any such thing as "unplayable" or "dated by today's standards". Maybe I'm old and jaded, but I see absolutely nothing about gaming over the last several years that's done anything to improve the quality of the artform, and nothing over the last couple hardware generations that would make me feel like now is the place to be.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
The quality and standards for the games themselves has never been higher. The only downside is that there are some really bad business practices being pushed by the biggest publishers and games take a long time to make.
Even some indie games are better than full priced retail games from previous generations. Rime and Hellblade for example.
Even some indie games are better than full priced retail games from previous generations. Rime and Hellblade for example.
I mean, we have a ton of indie games and tons of games that cater to most niches now, and we're getting more localized games than we ever have, so I'd say it's unarguably yes
I've played 2 of my favorite games this year (Nier: Automata and Divinity: Original sin 2) so yes, games are just getting better and better
I've actually been going back and trying to play some older games (namely System Shock 2) and man, game design has come a long way
I've played 2 of my favorite games this year (Nier: Automata and Divinity: Original sin 2) so yes, games are just getting better and better
I've actually been going back and trying to play some older games (namely System Shock 2) and man, game design has come a long way
*Now* is always the best time to be playing games because old games aren't going anywhere.
In terms of quality of games being produced, I don't think it's much different. There were plenty of great games and awful games being made in the 90s, there are still plenty of great games and awful games being made today.
In terms of quality of games being produced, I don't think it's much different. There were plenty of great games and awful games being made in the 90s, there are still plenty of great games and awful games being made today.
Your number 1 is correct
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I think the PS1/PS2 era of gaming is still the absolute peak in terms of quality and the sheer number of legendary franchises that were cultivated during that era.
In terms of the balance between creative expression, innovative and experimental gameplay, immersive storytelling and accessibility, this era had the best balance.
As great as a good number of games in the PS3/PS4 era have been, games budgets are now such that the business side of the industry is trespassing too far into the creative side; meaning instead of games being developed and design wholly as the brainchild of a talented development team, we now get "design by committee", "focus testing", "loot boxes" , "GaaS" and other such "features" which undermine the creative process and reduce videogame design down to simple formulas or recipes of popular mechanics and systems designed to capture the widest possible audience, keep them playing as long as possible and extract as much additional revenue out of them as possible.
Games nowadays are becoming more and more homogenized. And so many genres of games I've long traditionally enjoyed are now being thrown by the wayside, whilst huge monolithic games publishers chase the more lucrative MP-focused, GaaS, shooter-focused template which seems to almost guarantee commercial success (even if a game isn't received well critically).
Of course there are always exceptions (e.g. the Witcher 3), but whilst those exceptions are probably better than any previous examples of game in their respective genre, those exceptions are still far too few and far between.
In terms of the balance between creative expression, innovative and experimental gameplay, immersive storytelling and accessibility, this era had the best balance.
As great as a good number of games in the PS3/PS4 era have been, games budgets are now such that the business side of the industry is trespassing too far into the creative side; meaning instead of games being developed and design wholly as the brainchild of a talented development team, we now get "design by committee", "focus testing", "loot boxes" , "GaaS" and other such "features" which undermine the creative process and reduce videogame design down to simple formulas or recipes of popular mechanics and systems designed to capture the widest possible audience, keep them playing as long as possible and extract as much additional revenue out of them as possible.
Games nowadays are becoming more and more homogenized. And so many genres of games I've long traditionally enjoyed are now being thrown by the wayside, whilst huge monolithic games publishers chase the more lucrative MP-focused, GaaS, shooter-focused template which seems to almost guarantee commercial success (even if a game isn't received well critically).
Of course there are always exceptions (e.g. the Witcher 3), but whilst those exceptions are probably better than any previous examples of game in their respective genre, those exceptions are still far too few and far between.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
Its also important to note that games are very different now to how they were.
Back in the 90's games were often couch multiplayer, score / run based, JRPGs, RTS's etc
These days most the big hitters are online multiplayer, cinematic experiences and story driven.
If you got into games in this or the last generation and tried to play old classics you would wonder where the story was? whats the point in this etc. Then you have the opposite people like my self who mostly dont care to much about the story and are there from the gameplay mechanics (there are obviously exceptions).
Back in the 90's games were often couch multiplayer, score / run based, JRPGs, RTS's etc
These days most the big hitters are online multiplayer, cinematic experiences and story driven.
If you got into games in this or the last generation and tried to play old classics you would wonder where the story was? whats the point in this etc. Then you have the opposite people like my self who mostly dont care to much about the story and are there from the gameplay mechanics (there are obviously exceptions).
eXistor
Member
Pretty much my thoughts. I find the notion that games "age" quite strange. It's still the same game it's always been. It's just people's perspectives that changed.
Deathknell
Member
Microtransactions, loot boxes, season pass, preorder bonus, day one dlcs..
Games are pretty good, but the industry is a cancerous shithole today..
Games are pretty good, but the industry is a cancerous shithole today..
You can play games from all regions much easier now so things have definitely got better. However, lots of AAA games, while they have pretty fun ideas, their presentation is lacking severely. I am not saying you need to innovate but several things need to be dropped, such as treating even beginner players like idiots and restricting player's actions every few corners in expense of "cinematics". No need for all games to be open world but give better level design for linear games. Create fun combat encounters with more than one pre-defined way to proceed (no need to skip).
However, there are plenty of great things as well and many added conveniences compared to older games. Awful business practices need to go, though (not happening).
However, there are plenty of great things as well and many added conveniences compared to older games. Awful business practices need to go, though (not happening).
Alexander DeLarge
Member
No, but this year is better than any other year since 2005. There's more games than ever thanks to the independent development scene, Japanese games are being ported to PC and the ports in most cases are pretty decent and hell, even the AAA games are pretty decent this year. I think AAA development is going to get better though. There's one game in particular that'll really help that came out this year. Breath of the Wild was a wake up call to AAA open world developers reminding them that we don't need a magic compass directing us to every notable thing on the map. Hopefully Bioware and Bethesda take notice.
Also, Piranha Bytes gonna show them how it's done with ELEX next week.
Also, Piranha Bytes gonna show them how it's done with ELEX next week.
clarknova156
Member
We just had one of the best years in gaming as far as I'm concerned. But overall? I think its based on opinion. Is gaming better now? That's really more an opinion not something that can be attributed as fact.
SeeNoWeevil
Member
Better, cheaper and with more content.
Piston Hyundai
Member
it's always getting better since the older games that made a specific timeframe so memorable either get cheaper or improved through emulation/mods/etc, but this generation has really, really hit its stride within the past couple of years
that's, uh, some top 100 list you got there
I've noticed (but not always) I have enjoyed games more when I turn off voice volume, generally more speaking regarding Visual Novels.
I imagine I probably could come up with at least one arguement how Fallout 3 is better read like a book than heard most of the time, like in Fallout 2 (even though it would come off sounding kinda silly).
On the other hand, its probably better in Fallout 3 because you have the option to turn on or off the voice audio, in that aspect.
I imagine I probably could come up with at least one arguement how Fallout 3 is better read like a book than heard most of the time, like in Fallout 2 (even though it would come off sounding kinda silly).
On the other hand, its probably better in Fallout 3 because you have the option to turn on or off the voice audio, in that aspect.
Raptomex
Member
Super Mario World is 16? Crazy, I say. I think it's impressive you put this list together. I don't think games now are better than ever, no. At least not with all the loot box shit going on. But some are really goddamn great. Cuphead is a great example. I'm personally looking forward to Odyssey and Wolf 2.
My favorite games are Chrono Trigger, Wind Waker, and The Last of Us.
No RPG since Chrono Trigger has been better.
No action adventure since Wind Waker has been better.
No survival horror stealth game since TLoU has been better.
In general; yes, games are better. Ludology is cumulative, and old releases are re-released for current platforms. But as far as creativity goes? No year will ever approach 1998.
No RPG since Chrono Trigger has been better.
No action adventure since Wind Waker has been better.
No survival horror stealth game since TLoU has been better.
In general; yes, games are better. Ludology is cumulative, and old releases are re-released for current platforms. But as far as creativity goes? No year will ever approach 1998.
Yeah this is definitly the best time ever to be gaming. Not just because games keep evolving but also because the gaming landscape became so diverse. You have these massive triple A games, a well developed indie scene, shitty mobile phone games, successful revivals of niche genres like CRPGs that manage to find an audience, remasters of old classics, ...
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I'm mad.
You are not, and you just answered yourself right there:
They are your favorite hundred games. Even if you felt compelled to put something even higher because of some supposedly objective measure of quality, it doesn't exist. It's all you. Critizicing other people's lists may be the most useless thing ever. Specially considering no one has ever played all games in existence, or even just every classic out there. There's a complete lack of PC games in your list of which my list would be full. Never, ever would I place Fallout 3 on top of 1, 2 or New Vegas. Never, ever would Fallout 3 appear on my list. But again, that's me and my gaming history and my subjective taste.
EDIT: As for new games being better... It's all relative. My likely top 10 is mostly games from circa 2000. And then there's TW3, which came out in 2015. And I got no qualms about considering it one of my favorite games ever.
StrategyFan
Member
presentation is
actual gameplay (decision-making) is almost always absent
actual gameplay (decision-making) is almost always absent
In some way yes, in some ways no. Gameplay is more refined than ever and many games provide a good amount of content for your money. However we also have more corporate greed in the industry and many games are designed for lowest common denominator with the intention to reach the widest audience possible.
It's a given and take relationship with this industry, but it's always been that way in some respect.
It's a given and take relationship with this industry, but it's always been that way in some respect.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Depends.
On average? No doubt.
Have all genres improved? No. I think CRPGs used to be better and I'm sure some other genres aren't in their prime either.
Have most genres improved? Yes, probably.
On average? No doubt.
Have all genres improved? No. I think CRPGs used to be better and I'm sure some other genres aren't in their prime either.
Have most genres improved? Yes, probably.
Shake Appeal
Member
Undeniably, yes. Unless you only play AAA games on console, I guess?
AdventureRacing
Member
Or if RTS's are your favourite genre.
Yes, definitely.
That's not to say that every franchise is better than it's ever been, or that every game coming out now is better than ones from 25 years ago but on average games are much better than they used to be, and every year we get amazing new experiences and approaches to concepts.
Really? Divinity 2 stands as one of the all-time greats for me. The more time I spend with it the more I enjoy it. I'd still rank Torment higher (cliche, I know) but Divinity 2 has everything I look for in a rpg and then some.
That's not to say that every franchise is better than it's ever been, or that every game coming out now is better than ones from 25 years ago but on average games are much better than they used to be, and every year we get amazing new experiences and approaches to concepts.
Really? Divinity 2 stands as one of the all-time greats for me. The more time I spend with it the more I enjoy it. I'd still rank Torment higher (cliche, I know) but Divinity 2 has everything I look for in a rpg and then some.