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Are the struggles of Homosexuals equal to that of Black People?

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D

Devolution

Member
Tideas said:
you wanna make one case against the thousands of blacks?
Click to expand...

I don't want to compare the two but the fact that some people are openly saying that "gay people can just hide it and have avoided persecution" is willful ignorance at its finest really.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Hylian7 said:
I would probably say no at first glance.

Struggles of black people:

- no right to vote for a long period of time
- enslaved for a long period of time
- not given equal rights for almost ANYTHING for a long period of time
- looked down upon by most of society for a long period of time (similarly to how homosexuals are today)

Struggles of homosexuals:

- no right to marry
- sometimes denied some other rights
- looked down upon by a large portion of society
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I AM NOT GOING TO PLAY THE OPPRESSION OLYMPICS. However, if you want to add a 4th point to your gays category since you had 4 for blacks...

Again, I think the comparison is invalid from the get go but you're not framing things at all equitably either
 
H

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
So it kind of sounds like people are incapable of thinking of this comparison in qualitative terms rather than quantitative.

OP, what is the exact prompt that you have to write this paper about? Does it really say "Are the struggles of homosexuals 'equal' to that of Black People?"

Is the point of the assignment for you to ponder what "equal" would even mean in this context? I sincerely hope the point isn't to try and count up atrocities on either side.
 
B

benzy

Member
Funky Papa said:
Photos of physical punishment are not a good way to make an argument considering all things

judas-cradle.jpg


But yes, I do think that blacks had it worse on account of not being able to hide in plain sight. Not that it matters a lot.

These days I would say that their struggles are somewhat comparable, if such thing is even possible.
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Is the guy in that picture gay?

Just based on modern society norms alone, if a gay were to be openly whipped or abused today in front of a large crowd, I doubt many would approve of it compared to the common practice of abusing blacks during their enslavement. Not to say that homosexuals aren't physically abused now, but if it happens it's more likely due to a smaller group of homophobes doing it out of the sight of many others.
 
M

Mumei

Member
In general terms (e.g. both being struggles for equalities of various kinds), yes. If you're asking if there are historical parallels, I'd also say yes, including some identical arguments being used to justify the same kinds of discrimination. But if you're asking if what gay people and black people have suffered historically are equivalent, I'd say no.

I don't, however, think that this has anything to do with the ability to hide in the closet. Hiding is a way of avoiding persecution; the ability to hide shouldn't be taken as evidence of a relative lack of persecution.

And of course if we're playing Oppression Olympics, everyone knows that the Blind (or Deaf) gay, black, Native American, transgender little person woman wins.
 
C

chronos4590

Member
The Suffering of any people is suffering. It's not fair to each group of people to say their struggles is greater or less than to another.

With that being said for the sake of your question, this is a really hard question because of several points. Your opinion is going to depend on a few things like region[are we talking about America, Africa, elsewhere around the world?], and the period of time. It's also hard because we know a lot about black history and their suffering. It's no doubt at all that gay people have suffered way in the past and are suffering now [black and gay myself actually] even though things certainly have gotten better than I can even imagine, but i'm sure there are a lot of events and tragedies onto gay people that we don't know much about than we actually should simply cause of their sexuality.

However I still stand by my first point. This is really dumb.
bjb said:
About to write a paper on this - curious what GAF thinks.
Click to expand...
So why exactly are you writing a paper about this?
 
D

Delio

Member
Oh lordt while yes gay people aren't enslaved now but I still think the hate is very similar. Try being a gay black man though :/
 
C

Conciliator

Banned
I don't think it needs comparing. Why does it matter? If gay people have not struggled as much and black people in terms of their respective civil rights movements, what does that prove? What does it prove if they have?
 
A

akira28

Member
Homosexuals were cursed to keep their sexual preferences private and weren't allowed to outwardly express their affections, although history is full of homosexuals with power and prestige. They were considered immoral if they were known to be homosexuals, so they usually practiced in private.

Blacks were cursed with bondage and servitude. They were forced to work, were often abused physically and psychologically, being raped, beaten, or maimed. Or just worked to death. They were considered not to be human but as God given service animals and their children were usually doomed to share the same fate because of the color of their skin.


One major difference is that throughout history, sexuality was supposed to be hidden anyway, and was considered to be generally immoral. There are some non-western societies that currently have a death penalty, based on religious practices, but those societies also have a history of hidden homosexuality as well. There has been a legality issue for sodomy, but generally the persecution of one doesn't compare to the other.

It's in no way equal. But things are improving for both blacks and homosexuals, at different rates.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
benzy said:
Is the guy in that picture gay?

Just based on modern society norms alone, if a gay were to be openly whipped or abused today in front of a large crowd, I doubt many would approve of it compared to the common practice of abusing blacks during their enslavement. Not to say that homosexuals aren't physically abused now, but if it happens it's more likely due to a smaller group of homophobes doing it out of the sight of many others.
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You act as if homosexuals weren't victims of the most terrible abuses during that era.
 
R

royalan

Member
Gaborn said:
I think that it is too inflammatory to compare one group's suffering in terms of value. it is enough to know that both blacks and gays have faced hatred, inequality, and prejudice and that this is unacceptable in society. I don't think you can assign a "value" to suffering though because that gets into infighting between groups which is unnecessary.

edit: So just to clarify, the STRUGGLES are equal because the cause - equal treatment under the law - is the cause of human rights, individuals and different groups have had further to go in different ways but the basic struggle is universal.
Click to expand...


And nothing more than this really needs to be said. Spot on, Gaborn.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
A comparison of the current fight for gay marriage rights and the fight against anti-miscegenation laws would be interesting.
 
S

scar tissue

Banned
Devolution said:
I don't want to compare the two but the fact that some people are openly saying that "gay people can just hide it and have avoided persecution" is willful ignorance at its finest really.
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Not saying hiding it is fun or a permanent solution, but a gay person in an oppressive country can avoid detection and leave the country (happens by the boatloads in islamic countries right now).
A black person during slavery couldn't do that.
 
C

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Exterior struggles, No.

The struggles that come with something that can be seen 24/7 365 cannot be equal to something that can be hidden.

Not saying hiding homosexuality isn't a hard internal struggle.
 
G

Galang

Banned
Wow scary to have to write that: I actually jaw dropped at the title, I happen to be gay and black. I feel like no matter what, writing that paper is going to offend someone no matter what your stance on it is. It's scary to even respond to this topic... While there are some that are able to give a straight answer, both are such sensitive topics and I don't even know if it's possible to make a fair comparison of this. At the end of the day, there is no justifying discrimination... Discrimination is discrimination and opinions are going to heavily differ depending on the individual + their environment and how they grew up.

And yes it's possible and common for some people to never come out the closet. How can you even debate it's not?
 
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