SoloCamo
Member
It's a cost thing, simple as that. 4k didn't get widely adopted until costs came down, too. This is not very complicated.
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8K The future (or the past?)
- Thread starter Matt_Fox
- Start date
It's a cost thing, simple as that. 4k didn't get widely adopted until costs came down, too. This is not very complicated.
Doctor Hades
Member
I honestly do not care about 8K and find 4K to be overrated too personally, speaking as someone who owns a 55" LG B9 OLED TV and buys both 1080p Blu-rays and 4K UHD discs. HDR is the thing that makes 4K discs worth buying and not the resolution, which often isn't 4K native anyway.
The same applies to games. Most PS5 and Xbox Series X games do not run natively at 4K but are upscaled from much lower resolutions, some sub-1080p. While I play those console games at 'up to' 4K on my TV, I actually prefer to play games on my much more powerful PC at 1440p, which I think is the sweet spot for games, allowing higher quality visuals and framerates which are far more important than resolution. I have just bought myself a 1440p 360 Hz Alienware AW2725DF QD-OLED and am enjoying HDR in games for the first time on my PC. If I had bought a 4K monitor then I would have needed to have upgraded my RTX 4080 to an RTX 4090 and the card I have was already expensive enough, thank you!
8K is a dud for now. There's no real 8K content outside of video demos on YouTube. There's no 8K media content otherwise and 8K discs are looking extremely unlikely to happen. 4K broadcasts are still rare so it will a long, long time before 8K ones become standard. Just don't tell Nintendo who are still in the sub-1080p era and have yet to release a console that can do 1080p reliably, let alone 4K or even 8K! And what about Sony who advertise the PS5 as being 8K on the box despite the console not supporting it currently (in the fourth year of its life cycle!).
The same applies to games. Most PS5 and Xbox Series X games do not run natively at 4K but are upscaled from much lower resolutions, some sub-1080p. While I play those console games at 'up to' 4K on my TV, I actually prefer to play games on my much more powerful PC at 1440p, which I think is the sweet spot for games, allowing higher quality visuals and framerates which are far more important than resolution. I have just bought myself a 1440p 360 Hz Alienware AW2725DF QD-OLED and am enjoying HDR in games for the first time on my PC. If I had bought a 4K monitor then I would have needed to have upgraded my RTX 4080 to an RTX 4090 and the card I have was already expensive enough, thank you!
8K is a dud for now. There's no real 8K content outside of video demos on YouTube. There's no 8K media content otherwise and 8K discs are looking extremely unlikely to happen. 4K broadcasts are still rare so it will a long, long time before 8K ones become standard. Just don't tell Nintendo who are still in the sub-1080p era and have yet to release a console that can do 1080p reliably, let alone 4K or even 8K! And what about Sony who advertise the PS5 as being 8K on the box despite the console not supporting it currently (in the fourth year of its life cycle!).
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ByWatterson
Member
4K is used in freaking movie theaters.
No one needs 8K at home.
No one needs 8K at home.
MisterXDTV
Member
Sure if they remove 4K TVs from sale like they did with 1080p TV, people will be forced to buy an 8K TV because that's all they will find in stores
That doesn't mean much tough
I very much doubt they will do it, considering power consumption regulation
Loxus
Member
A little web search can solve a lot.
8K Technology Market Size & Share Analysis - Growth Trends & Forecasts (2024 - 2029) Source: https://www.mordorintelligence.com/industry-reports/8k-market
8K Technology Market Analysis
The 8K Market size is estimated at USD 10.46 billion in 2024, and is expected to reach USD 43.43 billion by 2029, growing at a CAGR of 32.93% during the forecast period (2024-2029).
- The 8K market is witnessing growth in adoption across various fields as it allows for true-to-life reproduction of real scenes, signficantly recreating the effective resolution of the human eye. It also curtails the gap between real and virtual worlds. The market is undergoing robust growth, due to the growing need for 8K-based cameras, mainly from filmmakers, owing to their ability to catch better images. Further, NHK, a Japanese broadcasting company, announced plans to launch 8K SHV channels to deliver 8K media on a considerable scale.
- Moreover, the growth in smart TV use throughout the world drives the market growth. According to Ofcom, televisions that can operate apps and access the internet can be seen in many households in the United Kingdom (UK). In the last year, 67% of homes in the United Kingdom owned a Smart TV. Televisions are noticing the increased adoption of the 8K technology. Due to this, companies are rapidly launching new 8K-based televisions.
MisterXDTV
Member
This guy gets it
Elysium44
Banned
All seems reminiscent of this which was the next big thing. Until it wasn't.
Launch of 3D televisions promise revolution in home entertainment
Korean company Samsung kicks off the industry-wide push by launching a 3D range that will be in British shops by the end of the month
www.theguardian.com
MisterXDTV
Member
All seems reminiscent of this which was the next big thing. Until it wasn't.
Launch of 3D televisions promise revolution in home entertainment
Korean company Samsung kicks off the industry-wide push by launching a 3D range that will be in British shops by the end of the month
Yeah, all these forecasts based on nothing
The only way 8K TVs are going to sell big is that there won't be no other option available on the premium market
But again, it's not happening anytime soon
Image quality is more important than pixel count: that's why a 4K OLED is insanely better than an 8K LCD
Sushi_Combo
Member
It's just as relevant as the PSVR2 right now.
4k isn't really needed for games. Gameplay is king.
4k isn't really needed for games. Gameplay is king.
Loxus
Member
Why are you using a 13 year old article against an up to date article that actually uses up to date numbers that prove 8k is the future?All seems reminiscent of this which was the next big thing. Until it wasn't.
Launch of 3D televisions promise revolution in home entertainment
Korean company Samsung kicks off the industry-wide push by launching a 3D range that will be in British shops by the end of the month
I don't get it...
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SoloCamo
Member
Resolution does not affect a game having good game play, it's literally an option in the menu that you can change. The only thing it does is improve fidelity and can actually improve your experience if you can spot enemies / items, etc. in the distance more easily. It sometimes felt like cheating when playing large map online games like Battlefield where I could make out other players much more easily.
Elysium44
Banned
Naysayers 13 years ago were ridiculed by the evangelists as well, that's why. Now maybe this time it's different and 8K will take off, but I highly doubt it. 4K is good enough, in fact most people find 1080p 'good enough' which is why 4K blu-rays are already a niche thing (yes I know there's the benefit of HDR, not just resolution. Clearly the market has spoken though). Even blu-ray itself arguably never took off with the masses all that much, because DVD or streaming are 'good enough' for a lot of people. (I do have a blu-ray collection but it's largely because it's nice to have them on the shelf and 'own' them from an emotional point of view, rather than them being particularly better quality than streaming to any dramatic extent.)
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Loxus
Member
It amazes me that you don't like progress.
You are acting like all 4k content will vanish because of 8k.
Like if all games will be at 8k only.
You're acting like if 8k will take your life.
Just because you don't want 8k, doesn't mean others don't want it.
It's an option for peace sake.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
ResilientBanana
Member
Right, but even today the consoles can barely hit 4K natively to even consider using upscaling for 8K. Also, why does 8K even matter for screens smaller than 100"?
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SoloCamo
Member
Sounds like a console gamer problem to me (not directing at you, just in general). We've had GPU's since 2020 that can comfortably handle 4k even in most new AAA titles. Imagine if we held the industry back because of consoles like the Switch?
There is a noticeable difference between my 28" 4k monitor and my 60" 4k tv and it's related to PPI. 157ppi vs 73. Over double is substantial, 8k would solve that.
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dragonyeuw
Member
Isn't 4k streaming lower bitrates than a 1080p blu-ray? It seems like the masses have spoken( the dominance of streaming) in term of the higher priority in the quality vs convenience debate.
Goalus
Member
If you sit in front of a matchbox (65" and smaller), you could be right.
I currently have a 75" TV, and sub-4k is not acceptable for me. My next TV will be at least 100" - which means it needs to support 8k.
TheDreadLord
Gold Member
AI upscaling, 8k and 85+” TVs is a pretty nice setup. In the past, people used to downplay 4k and now it is the standard. Also, 8k TVs can become more power efficient than what they are today.
The main bottleneck now is to get affordable large panels and cpus that can handle proper AI upscaling.
The main bottleneck now is to get affordable large panels and cpus that can handle proper AI upscaling.
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Lokaum D+
Member
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Sure about that?
Next gen consoles can easily be around RTX 4090 power.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I wouldn't get a 8K set at this time.
It's a great resolution for down sampling though.
It's a great resolution for down sampling though.
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
4k for my monitor and TV is very noticeable and important. Trying to play 1080P I see blurry images. When I’m on my Deck though it’s perfect for old titles like the MGS collection for example.
8K is like others said nonsensical.
There isn’t much left in the current iteration of TVs to do. TVs need a game changer in built in audio, remotes, and ease to clean. More technology in anti glare. More lightweight. Built in wall mounts that attach to any surface suction cup style and do not let go without drilling holes in walls.
These are the things we need.
8K is like others said nonsensical.
There isn’t much left in the current iteration of TVs to do. TVs need a game changer in built in audio, remotes, and ease to clean. More technology in anti glare. More lightweight. Built in wall mounts that attach to any surface suction cup style and do not let go without drilling holes in walls.
These are the things we need.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Did you skip past last year?
As it stands you can already buy a 4K 100" TV for under $5k. And everyone, I mean everyone now has a hundred incher in their lineup. And most under $10k. Just two years prior that wasn't something much of anyone was doing.
And you are making that common tech enthusiast mistake of thinking the general public will be pixel-peeping. They do not give a fuck about PPI. 4k content on 100+ sizes still look phenomenal. You really must have skipped past last year.
thebigmanjosh
Member
8k was pushed by tv makers 5-10 years too early. 4k was even a bit too early but studios and content makers were already starting to film and master at UHD.
There’s none of that happening for 8k right now. Plus, EU power regulations basically killed the dying corpse last year.
TLDR: 8k may be a thing for commercial displays and home theater enthusiasts by 2030, but don’t expect much content to be produced at that rez.
There’s none of that happening for 8k right now. Plus, EU power regulations basically killed the dying corpse last year.
TLDR: 8k may be a thing for commercial displays and home theater enthusiasts by 2030, but don’t expect much content to be produced at that rez.
March Climber
Member
I think the problem with your cyclical argument lies with diminishing returns.
You bring some random person to a chain store's electronics section or an electronics store, and show them a 4k TV next to an 8k TV. The difference for them is not as stark and as immediate as showing them 1080p and 4k next to each other.
That's why 8k(and to a lesser extent 12k) is going to have a harder time for mass adoption, especially if you're asking people to pay double or triple the price of a 4k display, while those same 4k displays keep getting cheaper and better.
It's going to become more and more of an enthusiast-only item, much like ultra expensive sports cars and DSLR cameras.
TheStam
Member
I guess you could see the difference in aliasing in some games like Forza Horizon series always seem to give me some slight but noticeable aliasing at any Anti-Aliasing setting even at 4k, but obviously it wouldn't be worth the upgrade at all. Maybe in 10 years, who knows but 4k is already so damn good even at large screen sizes.
marjo
Member
Except the average would sits around 4 times as far away from a 60 inch TV as from a 28" monitor, which means the TV only needs a PPI a quarter as high to have the same perceived resolution.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
8K isn't banned per se, but the high power consumption of 8K TVs operating at full blast is. The way TV manufacturers get around that is that they ship their TVs set to a very dim power saving mode by default, and if you disable that mode to unlock the full brightness you get a warning that the power consumption will increase.
The Fuzz damn you!
Gold Member
Lies!
Dirty, filthy lies!
I can’t be bothered running the numbers, but I refute your assertion nonetheless, most strenuously!
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's facts. Again, it's why 4K became the standard for archival for Hollywood. Disney spent billions restoring and archiving their entire film library in 4K. Apparently the Song of the South restoration is jaw dropping and stunning.
bitbydeath
Member
It won’t happen til Sony says so.
CD was celebrated on PS1
DVD was pioneered by the PS2
Blu-Ray became popular because of the push with PS3
4K wouldn’t be as popular today if the PS4 Pro didn’t drive it.
Now we wait for Sony to start the 8K revolution.
CD was celebrated on PS1
DVD was pioneered by the PS2
Blu-Ray became popular because of the push with PS3
4K wouldn’t be as popular today if the PS4 Pro didn’t drive it.
Now we wait for Sony to start the 8K revolution.
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
The whole broadcast and streaming industries aren't even geared up to handle the storing, processing and distribution of 8K FFS, so if they haven't even agreed on a standard or switched their in-house systems over why in the holiest of fucks would a consumer buy an 8k TV? It's beyond niche
Doctor Hades
Member
The guy from Digital Foundry downgraded his TV from 8K to 4K and that tells me all I need know about the relevancy of 8K for media and games. Let's get to a point where 4K actually feels relevant first (which in my opinion it still doesn't).
TV manufacturers have a need to keep pushing new tech to 'encourage' consumers to buy their products so they want to push 8K TVs as something people need even if the truth is that 98% of the population likely are just fine with 1080p TVs. There comes a point where people have to buy a new TV if their old ones breaks down and that is where adoption of 4K happens. It is harder to buy a 1080p TV these days than a 4K one. Maybe that will happen with 8K TVs at some point too?
However, the reality that the vast majority of people with 4K TVs likely do not even watch 4K content on it but 1080p streams and broadcasts! I know a surprising number of people who didn't even realise that the stuff they were watching on their 4K TVs was not actually 4K but 1080p and in some cases 480p standard definition stuff.
TV manufacturers have a need to keep pushing new tech to 'encourage' consumers to buy their products so they want to push 8K TVs as something people need even if the truth is that 98% of the population likely are just fine with 1080p TVs. There comes a point where people have to buy a new TV if their old ones breaks down and that is where adoption of 4K happens. It is harder to buy a 1080p TV these days than a 4K one. Maybe that will happen with 8K TVs at some point too?
However, the reality that the vast majority of people with 4K TVs likely do not even watch 4K content on it but 1080p streams and broadcasts! I know a surprising number of people who didn't even realise that the stuff they were watching on their 4K TVs was not actually 4K but 1080p and in some cases 480p standard definition stuff.
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CityHunter1981
Member
Unless you have a tv the size of your wall, you will have a hard time to tell the difference from 4K. Additionally where do you get 8k material if a lot of stuff isn’t even available yet in real 4K?
enigmatic enthusiast
Member
the word "need" has no meaning in a capitalistic society on the consumer side of things.
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Elysium44
Banned
Want, then. You get to a point where improving the screen pixel density is no longer noticeable so it's completely pointless. Also I daresay the vast majority of people don't have living rooms big enough to sit far enough away from such big screens. Housing is typically not very large in most of the densely populated West, for most people, especially outside North America and Australia.
Audiophile
Gold Member
When MicroLED and QDEL become a thing; and assuming they take the modular approach by joining lots of bezel-less mini panels I could see them using just a few mini panel sizes for better production efficiency and large displays having an 8K default as a result on larger displays. All displays would take all inputs up to 8K and just use very high quality scaling where applicable.
For eg.
26" | 1080p via 5 x 5 @ 384x216p 5.2"
52" | 2160p via 10 x 10 @ 384x216p 5.2"
104" | 4320p via 20 x 20 @ 384x216p 5.2"
32" | 1080p via 5 x 5 @ 384x216p 6.4"
64" | 2160p via 10 x 10 @ 384x216p 6.4"
128" | 4320p via 20 x 20 @ 384x216p 6.4"
40" | 2160p via 5 x 5 @ 768x432p 8.0"
80" | 4320p via 10 x 10 @ 768x432p 8.0"
That way the cost per inch won't rise as exponentially (though the chassis/additional electronics/shipping/packaging will still add a small premium) and the scaling of pixels relative to screen size would be more linear. Plus, just creating 3 smaller "wafers" would be very economical rather than a bunch of different large screen sizes with different pixel densities. If your image scaling is good enough you could theoretically reduce it down to just 1 or 2 wafer sizes/densities and use intermediate resolutions.
With this they could focus on better sustained brightness, (hopefully) more primaries/subpixels to expand colour space possibilities drastically, higher bit depth panels and just overall better quality.
Outside traditional displays, VR/AR will probably need to go out to >12Kx12K per eye for an effectively perfect image.
For eg.
26" | 1080p via 5 x 5 @ 384x216p 5.2"
52" | 2160p via 10 x 10 @ 384x216p 5.2"
104" | 4320p via 20 x 20 @ 384x216p 5.2"
32" | 1080p via 5 x 5 @ 384x216p 6.4"
64" | 2160p via 10 x 10 @ 384x216p 6.4"
128" | 4320p via 20 x 20 @ 384x216p 6.4"
40" | 2160p via 5 x 5 @ 768x432p 8.0"
80" | 4320p via 10 x 10 @ 768x432p 8.0"
That way the cost per inch won't rise as exponentially (though the chassis/additional electronics/shipping/packaging will still add a small premium) and the scaling of pixels relative to screen size would be more linear. Plus, just creating 3 smaller "wafers" would be very economical rather than a bunch of different large screen sizes with different pixel densities. If your image scaling is good enough you could theoretically reduce it down to just 1 or 2 wafer sizes/densities and use intermediate resolutions.
With this they could focus on better sustained brightness, (hopefully) more primaries/subpixels to expand colour space possibilities drastically, higher bit depth panels and just overall better quality.
Outside traditional displays, VR/AR will probably need to go out to >12Kx12K per eye for an effectively perfect image.
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hemo memo
Gold Member
This right here. They thought they could force 8K like 4K before it but nah. Not enough content for 4K now imagine 8K. You’re burning money.
enigmatic enthusiast
Member
I would be interested in a study on the average size of living rooms globally; it would be quite revealing and not just about the subject at hand.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
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Celcius
°Temp. member
Note - the PS4 Pro’s lack of a UHD drive was a glaring omission (even the Xbox One X had one).
Doctor Hades
Member
I suppose the ultimate dream is to have a display where the actual picture looks real and we do not see the pixels when viewed up closely. We also need hardware that is powerful enough to display these images without compromises.
I actually feel that we moved too quickly away from 1080p to 4K which in turn put more demands on console hardware and meant that the 60 fps minimum dream for all games died a quick death now that developers are focused on the current gen hardware rather than cross-gen development for the older systems as well. 60 fps with decent anti-aliasing and high-fidelity visuals would have been much more achievable on the current consoles if that was the target for developers rather than 4K. We never had 1440p TVs either, something very common with monitors in the PC space where the vast majority of gamers actually do not play at 4K. I have just bought a 1440p QD-OLED monitor for example for my PC and have no desire or interest in upgrading to 4K.
I don't like these big jumps in resolutions that the TV manufacturers are forcing on consumers. It's like running before you can walk...
I actually feel that we moved too quickly away from 1080p to 4K which in turn put more demands on console hardware and meant that the 60 fps minimum dream for all games died a quick death now that developers are focused on the current gen hardware rather than cross-gen development for the older systems as well. 60 fps with decent anti-aliasing and high-fidelity visuals would have been much more achievable on the current consoles if that was the target for developers rather than 4K. We never had 1440p TVs either, something very common with monitors in the PC space where the vast majority of gamers actually do not play at 4K. I have just bought a 1440p QD-OLED monitor for example for my PC and have no desire or interest in upgrading to 4K.
I don't like these big jumps in resolutions that the TV manufacturers are forcing on consumers. It's like running before you can walk...
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I truly hope consumers are tired of this. Nobody needs 8K.
Hell, when I was a kid our TV would get repaired. We didn’t upgrade until it was broke.
Hell, when I was a kid our TV would get repaired. We didn’t upgrade until it was broke.