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Are we living in a simulation? (Going down the rabbit hole..)

Grildon Tundy

Gold Member
Yes and no. We *do* have the power to manifest our reality but it's been suppressed by the cabal for ages now. We are Godly beings, formerly in "tune" with nature and the Earth.
You know, I want this to be true, in the same sense that Harry Potter is appealing because I wanted someone to come and tell 12-year-old me that I was actually a wizard.

I've seen this idea around, and I have to ask: where does it come from? Like the Christian God comes from the Bible, Xenu comes from Dianetics, etc. Where does this idea come from?
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
no major patches been pushed out that wreck the whole thing :messenger_beaming:
I think a.key concept for the simulation theory is that OUR simukariin could ha e just started a second ago, with preloaded histories and motivations. More like Dark City, where the humans get rewired each night to act out different programs to try to generate the desired outcome.

So the lack of anachronistic events, tell tale glitches, etc can be explained that our "history" is fictional or is rewritten to now account for any new unexplainable phenomenon and we are just not aware of it happening (consciously anyway).

It is a ery seductive world view if you want to explain away being miserable. Basically just a new religion.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
R6A3tfE.png
 

Catphish

Member
Maybe i shouldnt have gotten down this rabbit hole...but after watching all these youtube videos im starting to really question reality itself.

So far the most convincing "evidence" i have heard is related to quantum physics and the double slit experiment. When you see something so illogical which defies common sense, maybe the only rational way to explain it is that we are only being shown the reality our simulation wants us to see.

Anyone else went down this rabbit hole?
Yep. And oddly enough, it was No Man's Sky that kicked it off for me.

The idea that a world would be generated on demand, at the time you need to see it, echoed of the very double-slit experiment you're talking about, which I'd learned of years before.

So that led me to reading and watching videos about the nature of reality, which inevitably led to Simulation Theory.

I mean, the logic is sound. Given where we are with computers today, from where we started, and what we use them for (like The Sims, or me pitting a world of AI against each other in Civilization VI), if you consider the exponential growth of our computing power, and then consider the vastness in both size and history of the universe, given enough time, why couldn't computational power somewhere, somehow, reach a point where every particle could be quantified, and thus a universe of them simulated?

Then you have Matrix-level questions of malleability of the simulation from within, the possibility of all of your personal history up until this very moment just being a program (so it didn't really happen, you're just programmed to think it did since the simulation actually just began 1 second ago), the question of existence once the simulation is terminated, or the idea of simulations within simulations within simulations...

It's a lot of fun to think about. To me, anyway.

Welcome. :)
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
Consider taking some physics courses. You’ll gain a far deeper, more complete understanding and appreciation for the laws of the universe.
The prerequisites might be enough.
Then again
test guy GIF

what is learned may be reduced to fit their beliefs.
 

Ma-Yuan

Member
And then, how does that work in the reality where this is simulated? Don't they have universal physics properties? These seem the same doubts that end inventing a God: as I can't understand this reality I invent a deity (another reality in the case of this topic) that explains the things I don't understand from my reality, but I stop asking there, so I move all my questions and fears to a place where I stop asking, even if the questions would be the same for that God or alter reality.
I don't judge anything so I don't know what our universe is these are just things that make me question reality. But a simulation would give an easy explanation for my questions that's all.

Also what the reality beyond that simulation would be is not feasible for the ones who are part of the simulation.

But I get your point.

The same questions would arise in the real universe and maybe the answer is the same there 🌌🤣
 

Razorback

Member
The prerequisites might be enough.
Then again
test guy GIF

what is learned may be reduced to fit their beliefs.

I've only read aesthetic level objections from you and a few others here towards the simulation hypothesis. Comparisons to religion, the secret, people being biased towards wanting to believe in fantasies. I'm sure there's some of that going on but it doesn't refute the central claim.


I've read a few refutations from smart people over the years, but still nothing that has completely made me dismiss the possibility. Do you or anyone here have an argument that attacks the core claims being made by Bostrom?
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
I've only read aesthetic level objections from you and a few others here towards the simulation hypothesis. Comparisons to religion, the secret, people being biased towards wanting to believe in fantasies. I'm sure there's some of that going on but it doesn't refute the central claim.



I've read a few refutations from smart people over the years, but still nothing that has completely made me dismiss the possibility. Do you or anyone here have an argument that attacks the core claims being made by Bostrom?
Disprove Jesus to Christians?
 
VR makes me think this could be a simulation since it came kind of close to feeling like reality in certain ways. I can imagine brain wave interfaces will come even closer to that, or eliminate the barrier entirely and allows for the merging of consciousness with the universe depending on the execution of the tech
 
A glitch i witnessed:

Sunny afternoon, blue skies i'm sitting down, I look up and notice a pigeon flying in towards a pole. I'm like; "okay birds gonna land on the pole." So yeah bird lands on the pole...after it "drifts" in mid air :O Hard to explain but just imagine bird coming in but looks like its going to pass the pole. Then it turns in mid air like a drift car would on the road. wish i had my cell that day.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
VR makes me think this could be a simulation since it came kind of close to feeling like reality in certain ways. I can imagine brain wave interfaces will come even closer to that, or eliminate the barrier entirely and allows for the merging of consciousness with the universe depending on the execution of the tech
Perfect example of classic anthropomorphism.
 

Razorback

Member
You don't even know what you wrote a few minutes ago.

No, it doesn't seem possible to disprove it to you.

You are assuming I believe we live in a simulation. I don't. I believe Nick Bostrom's simulation argument is valid, and in it the simulation hypothesis is only one of three possibilities.
The arguments I've heard didn't completely refute that third possibility to my satisfaction, but they did lower my confidence of it being the most probable one.

You have developed a helpful heuristic that tells what things are likley true or not depending on surface level characteristics. Does it share similarities with religion, does it sound like science fiction, is it currently unfalsifiable?
I'm sure you can go very far being right most of the time using that simple thought process, but it can only take you so far. It doesn't allow you to actually reason through the logic of an argument yourself. And that's fine, not everyone needs to be a philosopher or scientist to discuss things on a games forum.

I just take issue with how confidently you make comparisons to idiocracy when people are just discussing an interesting topic when you haven't bothered to even understand the argument.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
i don't think we're in a simulation but i think our brains don't see true reality. to us it might seem like reality but i think there is a shit load of stuff we can't pick up on. cats and dogs have more sensitive senses than us. they can hear and see shit we can't. if a cat acts weird we think oh shit they are seeing ghosts but maybe they can see little specs of light we can't or maybe they hear something high pitched from far off that we can't. i'm not saying they are smarter than us although maybe more than some people they are lol. i just mean we can't really trust our own senses and say they are absolute. we also need technology to see in different wavelengths of light such as infrared and UV. hundreds if not thousands of years ago we probably thought things on those spectrums (if we could witness them in some degree) were magic/paranormal but now it's just science.

our brain can only process so much. the human brain is magnificent but it's not perfect. there is likely a lot of stuff we are not picking up. what we see through our eyeballs might be our reality but it doesn't mean it is reality. you could argue well there are billions of people on earth and we all agree that red is red, blue is blue, and we all know a dog when we see one but again it comes down to the human brain. we might all be "faulty" and not wired the right way to see stuff as it truly is. we are putting a lot of faith in our eyes as our primary way of experiencing reality.

of course it is possible we are in a simulation but i think it's a bit silly. then again...we are just basically advanced monkeys who know basically shit about the universe. anything is possible i guess.

Yes. Because you are " simulating" a reality in your brain to create your reality.
well said. you basically summed up what i was trying to say with a lot less words lol
 
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RAÏSanÏa

Member
You are assuming I believe we live in a simulation. I don't. I believe Nick Bostrom's simulation argument is valid, and in it the simulation hypothesis is only one of three possibilities.
The arguments I've heard didn't completely refute that third possibility to my satisfaction, but they did lower my confidence of it being the most probable one.

You have developed a helpful heuristic that tells what things are likley true or not depending on surface level characteristics. Does it share similarities with religion, does it sound like science fiction, is it currently unfalsifiable?
I'm sure you can go very far being right most of the time using that simple thought process, but it can only take you so far. It doesn't allow you to actually reason through the logic of an argument yourself. And that's fine, not everyone needs to be a philosopher or scientist to discuss things on a games forum.

I just take issue with how confidently you make comparisons to idiocracy when people are just discussing an interesting topic when you haven't bothered to even understand the argument.
You started from a place of dishonesty with the expectation of honesty in return.

Whatever hoops you've arranged to hop through to support your position only proves you're good at larping.
 
Yes, 100 percent. Travel disguises the loading time so the data of your next location can be loaded and rendered. That's why when you look out the plane window everything is low res. It's also why faster than light travel isn't possible because of memory bottlenecks. It's also no coincidence that things humans like to look at, nature scapes with lots of foliage or advanced reflection effects are the most resource intensive.

The evidence speaks for itself really.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
Yes, 100 percent. Travel disguises the loading time so the data of your next location can be loaded and rendered. That's why when you look out the plane window everything is low res. It's also why faster than light travel isn't possible because of memory bottlenecks. It's also no coincidence that things humans like to look at, nature scapes with lots of foliage or advanced reflection effects are the most resource intensive.

The evidence speaks for itself really.
just wait until the universe upgrades to DDR6 and PCIE 6.0!
 

12Goblins

Lil’ Gobbie
Yes, 100 percent. Travel disguises the loading time so the data of your next location can be loaded and rendered. That's why when you look out the plane window everything is low res. It's also why faster than light travel isn't possible because of memory bottlenecks. It's also no coincidence that things humans like to look at, nature scapes with lots of foliage or advanced reflection effects are the most resource intensive.

The evidence speaks for itself really.
Also eyes can only see 60 fps👀
 
My problem with this theory is that they would have to account for everything: elements, scientific discoveries, outer space etc. how far can a simulation go?
 

synchronicity

Gold Member
It's always fun to speculate, but we can never know the "ground". Whatever questions we answer will simply generate exponentially more unanswered questions.

Any who claim to know the fundamental nature of "reality" are either true galaxy brains :p or absolutely in love with their own stink. (many fall into the latter category)

fart-south-park.gif
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
My problem with this theory is that they would have to account for everything: elements, scientific discoveries, outer space etc. how far can a simulation go?
If unquestioned, far, it does so by re-imaging God and limiting the conditions of the universe to suit the fantasy.
 
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pramod

Banned
Yep. And oddly enough, it was No Man's Sky that kicked it off for me.

The idea that a world would be generated on demand, at the time you need to see it, echoed of the very double-slit experiment you're talking about, which I'd learned of years before.

So that led me to reading and watching videos about the nature of reality, which inevitably led to Simulation Theory.

I mean, the logic is sound. Given where we are with computers today, from where we started, and what we use them for (like The Sims, or me pitting a world of AI against each other in Civilization VI), if you consider the exponential growth of our computing power, and then consider the vastness in both size and history of the universe, given enough time, why couldn't computational power somewhere, somehow, reach a point where every particle could be quantified, and thus a universe of them simulated?

Then you have Matrix-level questions of malleability of the simulation from within, the possibility of all of your personal history up until this very moment just being a program (so it didn't really happen, you're just programmed to think it did since the simulation actually just began 1 second ago), the question of existence once the simulation is terminated, or the idea of simulations within simulations within simulations...

It's a lot of fun to think about. To me, anyway.

Welcome. :)
Yeah the thing is you dont even have to simulate every particle in the universe, just whatever is in front of us at that moment. For all we know all the stars and galaxies dont exist if we arent looking at them.
 

StormCell

Member
Maybe i shouldnt have gotten down this rabbit hole...but after watching all these youtube videos im starting to really question reality itself.

So far the most convincing "evidence" i have heard is related to quantum physics and the double slit experiment. When you see something so illogical which defies common sense, maybe the only rational way to explain it is that we are only being shown the reality our simulation wants us to see.

Anyone else went down this rabbit hole?
Yes. Just about every day. The thing is that no one can really assert an answer for or against whether this reality is a form of simulation or not, and don't let the simple minds try and compel you to a basic no answer "because of science." Science is just doing what it has always done, and it will continue to be updated to adapt to our observations as we are able to explain them in formula. Science doesn't know what your concept of a simulation is and doesn't care. What even is a simulation and how is it distinguishable from a reality?

I think that what we will ultimately struggle with is how fine tuned the universe really is for our existence (ie. the universe may in fact be set up for life to exist all over it but why? carbon is actually abundant but we don't see how this is the case, etc). The simple minds will chant "No it's not" and "That's false" but I'm not the originator of these conclusions. World renowned physicists are the ones doing the hard work and coming away with these thoughts and conclusions. In other words, stick your own pitch forks up your own candy asses when things like the Big Bang theory come under fire because the observations of the distant universe aren't aligning with our big bang expectations.

Some things may only eventually achieve explanation through quantum mechanics, but as for why it is the way it is we may only be able to approach it with philosophy. If we're lucky, someone else from another planet may have a better handle on how the universe actually works. lol
 
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Kev Kev

Member
Yeah the thing is you dont even have to simulate every particle in the universe, just whatever is in front of us at that moment. For all we know all the stars and galaxies dont exist if we arent looking at them.
Dove tailing off that point….

If there was no living thing in the universe, and therefore nothing to perceive the universe, would the universe even exist?

I believe that without life, there is nothing to perceive the surroundings, and therefore nothing would exist. You could argue it would still be there even if nothing were alive to see it, but without something living to actually experience it and see it, it’d be like the universe never existed to begin with.

Also back on the simulation topic…

I heard someone say something to made sense: If the idea a simulated universe is possible, then we are very likely already living in a simulation, perhaps even a simulation of a simulation, and on and on.

Interesting thread! You should check out the philosophy OT in off topic. Haven’t seen resurface in a while but it was a lot of fun back in the day.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Ibn Arabi had some things to say about the Unity of Being which sounded similar but far more involved.

So do it with arguments. Stop with these lazy mental shortcuts of comparing it to things you don't like.
It's being compared to what it is, you just don't like that and are in denial and want to shut it down.
 
Are we living in a computer simulation? I don't know. What I do know is that what we see with our eyes is a simulation. What I mean is, that we never see the world as it actually is, our brains interpret and illustrate the world in a way that suits us best for our survival, so again, we're not seeing the world in its true form. I do think we get glimpses or perhaps even the full spectrum of our actual world under psychedelics. From the handful of times, I've "tripped", I vividly remember how the world always seemed WAY more real than in my normal day-to-day state of consciousness.
Pretty deep bro; free thinker.
 

pramod

Banned
Sort of. As with anything in quantum physics, it's never as easy as that, and certainly not something that can be explained or summarised in a single sentence!

Ultimately, we're still coming to an understanding of how matter exists on a quantum level, and this is one of those experiments that is designed to help us parse that knowledge.

Needless to say, there's nothing about the double slit, or any other scientific experiment, that lends any credibility to the notion that we're living in a simulation of any kind. We simply do not as yet have a proper working knowledge of quantum physics - or the oft mooted grand unified theory, that would lead us to an understanding of how quantum mechanics functions and dovetails with general relativity.

Frankly, the actual theories surrounding quantum physics are far more out there and weird than the rather prosaic concept that the reality around us isn't actually real.
Yeah quantum physics by itself is not proof of a simulation or anything. It's just how it works reminds me so much of how you would build a video game/simulated world.

I mean all these concepts of something that can be in a totally random or unpredictable state, until you "observe" it...well isn't that exactly how you build a video game? A frame buffer? You can think of atoms as the pixels or graphic primitives of a video game. How would an NPC in a game perceive/interact with a pixel? It would be beyond comprehension. It only becomes something perceptible when the pixel is used to render something that can be understood.
 
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Trogdor1123

Gold Member
It’s definitely not. If we were they would have some kind fail safe in place that wouldn’t allow us to investigate it as it would ruin any kind of experiment they were doing.

There also isn’t enough computing power possible to do it.

It’s nonsense
 
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