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Ars Technica: Retail Patapon 2 IS UMD-free

Tobor said:
We don't know what's in the physical package yet. There could be a collector's edition type item included for the extra $5.
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Maybe. Then again, as far as we know this is all a silly rumor.

Another point that was made is that Sony deliberately prices all their "UMD Legacy" downloads (downloadable PSP games that were originally released on retail UMDs) at equal or slightly higher price as the current MSRP for the corresponding UMD, so as not to agitate their highly valued brick-and-mortar retail partners. See the examples people have cited of games like LocoRoco and Jeanne d'Arc.

So, according to Ars Technica, Sony's planning on breaking with tradition by undercutting their highly valued brick-and-mortar retail partners right on Day One? I don't think so.

Tobor said:
As for the rest, LATD proved this can work, and that people will by these cards, so who cares?
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In this case, the boxed package also wasn't being sold at $5 more than the unboxed download.

You know there will be a giant sticker on the package saying "internet connection required" anyway.
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Sure...but again that's if we believe Ars Technica's story to begin with.

I can see Patapon 2 being offered as a download on Day One. I can maybe even accept the possibility of the download being $5 cheaper than what's being offered as the boxed package. But I can guaran-damn-tee you the boxed package of Patapon 2 will contain a UMD. There are still a large number of PSP users that aren't Internet savvy enough to connect to a Wi-Fi network and redeem the code. Also, a digital download code isn't of much use to the parents who are impulsively dropping $20 on a game for Junior to play in the backseat of the car on their road trip.
 
mrklaw said:
doesn't matter. It means DD is viable. That takes millions of people to go online with their iphones and ipod touches. How many PSN users are there? How many Xbox live users downloading demos? How many Steam users for that matter?
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It doesn't really work like that. If a million people download a free demo it doesn't mean it's a good idea to switch to a DD only system. I'll download a free demo, but I do not want to buy DD only titles.
 
panda21 said:
play one of your blu-ray disc games that has lasted for 30 years on your ps3's 30 year old but still working blu-ray drive?

i too lament the fact that i likely won't be able to play my ps3 games in 30 years time, whereas i imagine my n64 will still be working (although probably sans compatible display by then anyway...). but to make out that DD is going to completely destroy this is silly, because really its already like that anyway. sure it doesnt help but there are plenty of other things to worry about if you go looking.

how about playing 360 games in 30 years time? think microsoft will fix your RROD then?
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Read this post again. If any of you think CD's and DVD's are going to be around and still working in 30 years, you're dreaming. The ship on collector longevity sailed with the cartridge. If you want to play your PS1 games in the old folks home, you'd better be backing them up on hard drives now, and then back that up to whatever replaces hard drives, and so on, and so on. DD content is no different, and we all know what will happen if a company goes belly up and the DRM goes bad. Some one will backwards engineer the DRM so you can keep on going. That's if the content distributor doesn't unlock it at death like Valve says they will do.

Anyway, you don't own your content now. The DMCA, disc rot, and Father Time will see to that.
 
kenta said:
1. You're assuming things. I just found a stash of old NES games in my attic a couple months ago but there was no sign of the actual NES. My mom must have done something with it over the years, or heck maybe I lent it to a friend when I was well into the SNES era and never got it back, who knows. There are millions of variables that could cause someone to keep games around without a console, or keep consoles around without the games.

2. There's no way you're going to convince me to spend any money whatsoever on a hard drive and go through the hassle of backing up my DD-purchased games when the alternative is simply letting me purchase physical copies of the games in the first place. There is no way, that's not an acceptable solution
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1) If you get rid of your console thats your problem, but if all the games are on the harddrive, then you only need to keep track of the console.

2) Delete demos or stuff, I'm sure you didn't buy enogh psn games to fill your HDD, and if you are that dedicated to downloading game you most likely have upgraded your harddrive a while ago.

My point is with DD, there is a much better chance of being able to play your games a long time from now. If by the off chance Sony leaves the gaming industry, you only need to keep track of the console
 
Good, I hope it flops and they realize that they should've come out with a UMD version of it.

I feel that with it only being DD it will sell, but if it were DD and UMD it would sell more.
 
YagizY said:
Good, I hope it flops and they realize that they should've come out with a UMD version of it.

I feel that with it only being DD it will sell, but if it were DD and UMD it would sell more.
Click to expand...

The true debacle here is that we don't get DD numbers for NPD purposes. Although I can see posters going 'ha-ha sales-age' but DD introduces some adverse selection. Do we really know how much TLAD sold, whether it sold a million or just a few hundred K?
 
i think it will turn out that the people saying no umd no buy will be in the vast minority since every single week in the psn thread everyone is complaining about SCEA never putting anything on the store, and everyone and their dog is running CFW on their PSP so that they can run games from the memory stick.

CFW is rife as a motherfucker and a large part of it is the ability to put more games than you could ever want at once on something much smaller than a umd.
 
The problem is this (I bold it so you read it): when people can't buy a physical copy, they will be more selective in what they buy. So if the price of a game is $39, it's too much for digital, and the sales will be much lower than if it was in store. Less expensive games in the $5 to $15 range will sell well.

So for this to be a real success for publishers, they will REALLY need to charge less for the games than they normally would if it was sold at retail. Of course, the lack of used copies on the market means that they could afford to gain nothing in the short term from a lower price (in the sense that they would sell the title for cheap enough that in the end it makes no positive difference to their bottom line), but on the longer term they make more money since the games have no used copies on the market.

If they try to keep prices too high, they'll see how unprofitable the idea is.

The price really has to be what convinces people. Otherwise a lot of gamers will develop a habit of spending less and less money on games, becoming more selective (like many of us have over the years as we have rents/cars/etc. to pay).
 
Guled said:
1) If you get rid of your console thats your problem, but if all the games are on the harddrive, then you only need to keep track of the console.

2) Delete demos or stuff, I'm sure you didn't buy enogh psn games to fill your HDD, and if you are that dedicated to downloading game you most likely have upgraded your harddrive a while ago.

My point is with DD, there is a much better chance of being able to play your games a long time from now. If by the off chance Sony leaves the gaming industry, you only need to keep track of the console
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You're still assuming way too much, you're not offering a concrete reliable solution. You're "sure" I didn't buy enough PSN games to fill my hard drive? And that's enough of a reason to make this okay? Have you ever heard of Speevy?

This is getting cyclical so I'm going to spare myself the gray hairs and bow out
 
panda21 said:
i think it will turn out that the people saying no umd no buy will be in the vast minority since every single week in the psn thread everyone is complaining about SCEA never putting anything on the store, and everyone and their dog is running CFW on their PSP so that they can run games from the memory stick.

CFW is rife as a motherfucker and a large part of it is the ability to put more games than you could ever want at once on something much smaller than a umd.
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That much is clear. Anyway, E3 is coming. I'll just wait for Judgement Day.
 
Tobor said:
Anyway, you don't own your content now. The DMCA, disc rot, and Father Time will see to that.
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Huh?

I own my physical and digital download games completely, and they will still work in 100 years as they do today. In the event that every gaming company in the world goes bankrupt and out of business tomorrow, or in ten years, all my games will still work, I have no ties to anyone.
 
Minsc said:
Huh?

I own my physical and digital download games completely, and they will still work in 100 years as they do today. In the event that every gaming company in the world goes bankrupt and out of business tomorrow, or in ten years, all my games will still work, I have no ties to anyone.
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Your physical games will not work in 100 years. The discs will have warped and rotted, the lasers and motors in the drives will be long dead, and you yourself will be pushing up daisies.

Any hope of playing physical copies of games in the future will rest with emulation, decryption, and in your example, necromancy.
 
Tobor said:
Read this post again. If any of you think CD's and DVD's are going to be around and still working in 30 years, you're dreaming.
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Really? I've read that a well manufactured DVD that is kept in good condition can last up to 100 years.
 
Minsc said:
Huh?

I own my physical and digital download games completely, and they will still work in 100 years as they do today. In the event that every gaming company in the world goes bankrupt and out of business tomorrow, or in ten years, all my games will still work, I have no ties to anyone.
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I salute your optimism.
 
I'll be really fucking pissed if this is true. I preordered my copy via Amazon and except a physical product, not a code to some nebulous download.
 
Now that I think about it, the only silver lining around this is that Sony will have a bit more incentive to upgrade their wireless antenna to at least a 802.11g (or n?) for those folk who will be downloading directly through their routers - 802.11b is so, so slow these days.

Presumably most folk here will download through PC/PS3 and then transfer to PSP?
 
Mejilan said:
I'll be really fucking pissed if this is true. I preordered my copy via Amazon and except a physical product, not a code to some nebulous download.
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It is confirmed.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...less-even-in-retail-stores-new-sony-trend.ars

Update: Sony has just confirmed the story with a statement to Ars Technica. The statement reads:

"We're considering a digital only format for the Patapon 2 release as a one time test case as we continue to explore consumer preferences for digital content," Patrick Seybold, Senior Director of Corporate Communications at SCEA said. "The downloadable game will be available on May 5th at both retail and via the PlayStation Store. We remain focused on providing superior games and entertainment experiences in both the UMD and digital formats and are working closely with our partners to deliver the best PSP line up in our history."
Click to expand...
 
rainking187 said:
Really? I've read that a well manufactured DVD that is kept in good condition can last up to 100 years.
Click to expand...

i think you're actually right about that, thing is its not just the disc, something like a ps3 or even a psp is so complicated compared to something like a NES, that there are about a billion little things that could break and your chances of the particular part you need still being produced are pretty much zero. i mean will people be manufacturing UMD drive assemblies in 10 years time? i seriously doubt it.

sure you probably will be able to get one on ebay but ones that have survived that long will diminish so it will cost a shitload.

i really doubt any of you would actually go that far in reality when you are busy with your 10 dimensional PS7 blowing your balls off
 
Pachael said:
Now that I think about it, the only silver lining around this is that Sony will have a bit more incentive to upgrade their wireless antenna to at least a 802.11g (or n?) for those folk who will be downloading directly through their routers - 802.11b is so, so slow these days.

Presumably most folk here will download through PC/PS3 and then transfer to PSP?
Click to expand...

That's what I'll be doing, if I buy Patapon 2, which I probably will. I was so pissed off when after 3 iterations on the PSP, we were still stuck with bullshit 802.11b.
 
panda21 said:
i think you're actually right about that, thing is its not just the disc, something like a ps3 or even a psp is so complicated compared to something like a NES, that there are about a billion little things that could break and your chances of the particular part you need still being produced are pretty much zero. i mean will people be manufacturing UMD drive assemblies in 10 years time? i seriously doubt it.

sure you probably will be able to get one on ebay but ones that have survived that long will diminish so it will cost a shitload.

i really doubt any of you would actually go that far in reality when you are busy with your 10 dimensional PS7 blowing your balls off
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i only hope that in future you can access pretty everything that was published in the past with a simple click. Unfortunately copyrights are a bitch
 
MirageDwarf said:
It is confirmed.
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Hmm...I guess I guaran-damn-tee nothing.

That still doesn't explain why the "boxed" copy is selling for $5 more than the straight download. I'm sure there will be a lot of people who are unhappy about that--consumers (following the example of Mejilan who preordered from Amazon) as well as retailers.

How could retailers be content to get the opportunity to sell a digital download code when Sony themselves is going to undercut them day-and-date anyway?

As a consumer, knowing this, I'd rather just buy a $20 PSN card from the retail store, get the download from PSN, and still have $5 left over to spend on something else. Unless the retail box is some sort of "Collector's Edition" as Tobor proposed (with something really spiffy inside), there's really no other justification to buy the retail box.
 
MirageDwarf said:
It is confirmed.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/...less-even-in-retail-stores-new-sony-trend.ars
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I saw the update in the OP link and was wondering what all the first posts were about. :lol

Everyone should buy this game since it's $15 and is like crack.

On the topic of DD and retail...
I prefer retail, but that's because I resell most of my games.

I can't see widespread digital pricing of games >$20 and if Sony continues to offer $20 of game for $15 on PSN I will bite.

4GB Memory Duo's are only $20 to boot. $40 for 8GB.

*I just hope it doesn't bomb in NA since it really deserves the sales.
 
Pachael said:
The true debacle here is that we don't get DD numbers for NPD purposes. Although I can see posters going 'ha-ha sales-age' but DD introduces some adverse selection. Do we really know how much TLAD sold, whether it sold a million or just a few hundred K?
Click to expand...
I think the real question is: Should you really care what TLAD sold? Tim Schafer would be interested in your response.
 
Pachael said:
The true debacle here is that we don't get DD numbers for NPD purposes. Although I can see posters going 'ha-ha sales-age' but DD introduces some adverse selection. Do we really know how much TLAD sold, whether it sold a million or just a few hundred K?
Click to expand...

...really?

Ether_Snake said:
The problem is this (I bold it so you read it): when people can't buy a physical copy, they will be more selective in what they buy. So if the price of a game is $39, it's too much for digital, and the sales will be much lower than if it was in store. Less expensive games in the $5 to $15 range will sell well.
Click to expand...

Aren't games on Steam, D2D, File Planet and such the same price in stores and online? Aren't the sales, based on Valve and others' internal data, of PC games much higher through DD than through retail (at least in North America), despite retail being an alternative with 99% of games?

As long as most games have demos I think the DD model will work just fine.
 
ShinoguTakeruKoeru said:
That's what I'll be doing, if I buy Patapon 2, which I probably will. I was so pissed off when after 3 iterations on the PSP, we were still stuck with bullshit 802.11b.
Click to expand...

Especially with the move to DD/DLC, I don't see why Sony would stick with slowww wireless - part of it is convenience wasn't it? And since Sony's at it, please license a good tab browser or make a better one - the current one can't really cut it. The PSN store is nice-ish, but you're trying to compete with the iPod touch/iPhone right? ;p

gbovo said:
I think the real question is: Should you really care what TLAD sold? Tim Schafer would be interested in your response.
Click to expand...

For a long time I wanted a Grim Fandango sequel. If it sold somewhere like 12k copies I'd understand why and curse Lucasarts marketing. Now I don't know if it sold 12k or sold 1.2 million copies with Lucasarts taking most of the profit. :<

I'm sure those who want a Psychonauts sequel would think the same?

Sho_Nuff82 said:
...really?



Aren't games on Steam, D2D, File Planet and such the same price in stores and online? Aren't the sales, based on Valve and others' internal data, of PC games much higher through DD than through retail (at least in North America), despite retail being an alternative with 99% of games?

As long as most games have demos I think the DD model will work just fine.
Click to expand...

NPD acts as a third party source for us to counter-check potentially dubious PR (or find out other information). Microsoft did say that TLAD sold like gangbusters. The question is: Okay, you say that, but what are the real figures? NPD's not totally accurate either but provides an insight to retail sales.

I think the DD model will work fine too, but just relying on 'internal data' is not the best way to go.
 
Maybe they're selling the $15 Patapon code and a $5 PSN voucher for the $20 then. Or they're selling a code that get's you the game and adds $5 to your PSN wallet. That would make some sense at least while just asking for $5 more doesn't.
 
Pachael said:
Especially with the move to DD/DLC, I don't see why Sony would stick with slowww wireless - part of it is convenience wasn't it? And since Sony's at it, please license a good tab browser or make a better one - the current one can't really cut it. The PSN store is nice-ish, but you're trying to compete with the iPod touch/iPhone right? ;p



For a long time I wanted a Grim Fandango sequel. If it sold somewhere like 12k copies I'd understand why and curse Lucasarts marketing. Now I don't know if it sold 12k or sold 1.2 million copies with Lucasarts taking most of the profit. :<

I'm sure those who want a Psychonauts sequel would think the same?
Click to expand...

If the rumors are true and a touchscreen is on board the 4000, then that could solve the browser UI problems.
 
Tobor said:
Your physical games will not work in 100 years. The discs will have warped and rotted, the lasers and motors in the drives will be long dead, and you yourself will be pushing up daisies.

Any hope of playing physical copies of games in the future will rest with emulation, decryption, and in your example, necromancy.
Click to expand...
lol that guy is nuts. by the time 100 years pass,if his games are still around, his great grand kids will be like 'wtf is this shit?' and sell/dump it. lol.
 
Tobor said:
If the rumors are true and a touchscreen is on board the 4000, then that could solve the browser UI problems.
Click to expand...

Browser UI is one thing, Browser lack of good RAM usage/slowness is another thing :/
 
Tideas said:
but what's the point of having a UMD if in the end, you're just gonna transfer the game to a mem stick anyway?
Click to expand...
I personally would like to have a card copy of the game so I can rerip it in the future if need be. It's the same principle of having paper hard copies of 1000+ page scripts despite it being originally written in ascii.
 
Pachael said:
Browser UI is one thing, Browser lack of good RAM usage/slowness is another thing :/
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Yeah, I was gonna say. I don't even think that one game site's mobile version of their sites still functions, and it's seriously gimped.
 
lyre said:
I personally would like to have a card copy of the game so I can rerip it in the future if need be. It's the same principle of having paper hard copies of 1000+ page scripts despite it being originally written in ascii.
Click to expand...

You can still make hard copy backups of your data.
 
El-Suave said:
Maybe they're selling the $15 Patapon code and a $5 PSN voucher for the $20 then. Or they're selling a code that get's you the game and adds $5 to your PSN wallet. That would make some sense at least while just asking for $5 more doesn't.
Click to expand...
I doubt it. It sounds like its going to be the a download voucher for Patapon 2, along with a case and manual. Nothing else.


Just to confirm the PSP is region free, even if its doesn't have CFW on it right? My 1000 has CFW, but I'm thinking about buying by cousins OFW 2000.
 
Blu_LED said:
I doubt it. It sounds like its going to be the a download voucher for Patapon 2, along with a case and manual. Nothing else.


Just to confirm the PSP is region free, even if its doesn't have CFW on it right? My 1000 has CFW, but I'm thinking about buying by cousins OFW 2000.
Click to expand...

Yes it's region free.
 
Tobor said:
You can still make hard copy backups of your data.
Click to expand...

It's a lot harder to lose a mile high stack of paper than it is to lose an thumb drive/dvd/floppy/whatever file format you saved it as.
 
Pachael said:
NPD acts as a third party source for us to counter-check potentially dubious PR (or find out other information). Microsoft did say that TLAD sold like gangbusters. The question is: Okay, you say that, but what are the real figures? NPD's not totally accurate either but provides an insight to retail sales.

I think the DD model will work fine too, but just relying on 'internal data' is not the best way to go.
Click to expand...

Except, that isn't NPDs true function, that's the extent of NPDs use to GAF.

The people who actually subscribe for the data aren't doing so to post mocking/celebratory gifs on message boards.

If this renders NPDs monopoly on sales data moot, I'm all for it. It's ridiculous how little info we get on VG sales on a monthly basis in this country, whereas we get weekly updates (and much better archival data) for music and movies, or more relevantly, Japanese game sales. And all of those are free.
 
I'd be perfectly fine with this if all new PSP games were $15-$20 online. If that ever came to fruition I'd be buying a heck of a lot of PSP games than I do now (which is none, I haven't bought one in over 2 years). The main reason I don't buy them is because I don't get a chance to play them enough to warrant the expense. Chances of them lowering the prices are slim as hell though.
 
Pachael said:
Browser UI is one thing, Browser lack of good RAM usage/slowness is another thing :/
Click to expand...
UI is fine for me.

It's just it's kind of slow and when it doesn't display pictures or pages anymore that's terrible.
 
lyre said:
It's a lot harder to lose a mile high stack of paper than it is to lose an thumb drive/dvd/floppy/whatever file format you saved it as.
Click to expand...

but a mile high stack of paper can easily be as fubared as loosing your thumb drive.

I always loose paper :lol
 
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