BlazingDarkness
Member
As long as the next PSP can at least play fucking youtube clips on the browser (and in general isn't shit) then i'll be ok
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Ars Technica: Retail Patapon 2 IS UMD-free
- Thread starter Alex P
- Start date
Goldrusher
Member
PSP games are region-free, if you want it on UMD, get it from Europe. It's been out for over a month too.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001NMUGYE/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001NMUGYE/
jorma said:
The entire issue is complex; it still requires an active Internet connection on the part of the consumer and for it to be a FAST connection because downloading is going to take time compared to something where you buy it off the shelf and pop it in to play.
Honestly I think they need to reach a compromise because buying download codes at retail is silly. They get the distribution and exposure of retail but the minuses of time and connectivity are still there. In my opinion retail need to step da fuck up because they're going to have to scrounge for pennies if they let the digital era take over without their participation. For example they can provide an option for consumers to bring in their PSPs and have the game directly transferred onto their PSPs using a system provided by the retail outlet. Each transfer will have to be checked by a code which registers as an effective purchase.
Anyway, if consumers purchase download codes from retail and have to claim it from PSN, they'll begin to be familiar with PSN the store and PSN the interface. If games are subsequently released day and date on retail and on PSN, there's no reason for these specific players to go to retail unless it's for cash reasons (PSN wallet, credit card, fuck that shit).
I still think the whole thing is an uncomfortable alliance and that retail needs to shape up or else get fucked.
the price difference is the thing I don't get.
Usually the online/DD version has to be as expensive as the retail so as not to piss off your big retail customers (mainly because all DD distribution is direct from the platform owner at the moment). So you make more profit from the DD version.
So why have the retail version be more expensive? A printed card is cheaper than a UMD to manufacture. That part is the only bit that doesn't make sense.
Usually the online/DD version has to be as expensive as the retail so as not to piss off your big retail customers (mainly because all DD distribution is direct from the platform owner at the moment). So you make more profit from the DD version.
So why have the retail version be more expensive? A printed card is cheaper than a UMD to manufacture. That part is the only bit that doesn't make sense.
Goldrusher
Member
It should come with a $5 discount coupon for a memory stick.
gantz85 said:
Yes, but poor internet connections isnt exactly a EU problem. I dont disagree with what you say really, but i was only responding to this in regards to this being a problem for citizens of the European Union. As i gathered he was from Holland wich makes it even less an issue. Sweden and Holland are probably the two nations in the world where the introduction of DD would be the least problematic, we already have the technological infrastructure in place - affordable 10mbit + broadband has been available to most people for nearly a decade now.
This is only a test as well. DD will happen in the future, of this there is absolutely no doubt. It's just a matter of when. Serves Sony well that they are trying to find out how to position themselves for the future i think. And the PSP is a perfect way to start, since the butthurt retailers are less up in arms of losing the sales of that particular console. =)
Agent X
Member
AranhaHunter said:
I would guess so. Otherwise, what would be the point in selling them?
On that note, Sony likely earns more money if you purchase downloads directly through the PSN with your credit card, as opposed to buying a PSN card first and then using that to purchase games. Direct credit card purchases would more desirable to them, as it cuts out the retail middleman altogether. However, having PSN cards on the shelves is also desirable, as it covers many bases that can't be covered if the PSN cards didn't exist:
1. People who don't have credit cards
2. People who have credit cards, but don't want to use them for online purchases
3. Gift giving
4. Acts as a sort of in-store advertising to raise awareness of the existence of PlayStation Store
mrklaw said:
TTP said:
Retailer's cut shouldn't be that significant. Aren't the expansions for GTA4 and Tomb Raider Underworld on Xbox 360 approximately the same price if someone buys the download code in the store compared to a direct purchase on Xbox Live?
Anyway, see what I said above about buying PSN cards. Right now, I can walk into a store and pay $20 for a PSN card valued at $20. What Sony's doing with the "boxed" Patapon 2 experiment is tantamount to asking people to pay $20 and receive a $15 PSN card.
Riskbreaker23
Member
has sony even verified their is a difference in the price or are people just wildly speculating?
rainking187 said:
the psp has always been capable of running games from memory stick, why can't i just have them on there?
the psp isnt my platform of choice so i only buy the AAA games that i know i want to play, so i never trade stuff in. for me there is no disadvantage, it would just mean a smaller psp and no discs.
i'm kind of indifferent about DD when it comes to consoles but for portables anything that makes it more portable and convenient is the most important.
panda21 said:
That might mean shorter, less involved games - and I'm against that. Not against games that you can play in short bursts, but if publishers find out that portable dd games sell up to a maximum $10 value, we could kiss certain games good bye.
I'm not so sure the portable space is as "portable" as some people think. Not everybody commutes or travels a lot. I bet most DS's and PSP's are played at home and for longer stretches of time than some people whose business model depends on it might want to make us believe.
Augemitbutter
Member
voltron said:
patapon 2 has been out in europe for over a month now.
in delicious, physical form! yea, you actually get something for your money.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
El-Suave said:
Let's flip that on its head. It might ALSO mean games where the devs don't give up 2/3 of the way in like 80% of the home console games I've bought at retail over the last couple years.
What's more, an episodic sales structure, when executed right, can provide "longer form" experiences in smaller bites.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Riskbreaker23 said:
Sony's confirmed the Ars Technica article, to what extent we don't know. We don't know the extent of difference between purchasing at retail or online besides what was stated in the article, but perhaps Sony not commenting any further besides "Yeah we're doing this" is enough absolute confirmation for everyone.
LightDarkFrexed
Banned
Count me out.
Count me in. If the PSP can model the iPhone in everyway I will be a happy person. I love the fact I can just download games to my iphone without having to walk into a store, the same should be an option for the psp. I hope Sony belives in an internal flash or harddrive for the new psp.
BWHAHAHAHA! There you go! I love the comments about "Sony is fucking their PSP userbase!" Of course they are: the majority of their PSP "userbase" already downloads games, expect they pay nothing for it.
No matter how many people use CFW in a moral way (only ripping their own games, not redistributing them and deleting the backups when reselling), there was nothing preventing a ripped game from being seeded into P2P networks. Well, not there is: without UMD, the game cannot be ripped, and cannot be illegally shared.
For Sony to be taking such "drastic" measures so quickly, I'm pretty sure they might be seeing quite healthy sales in the PSN store. I'm sure they can recoup the lost revenue from "digitally-out-of-reach-or-allergic" customers by cutting the costs of pressing UMDs. Not to mention that they probably get more out of a $15 download than from a $30 retail copy.
And about the empty box... it's meant for two things: gifts and kids. It's no different than buying a Valve game in retail (which would still download ~500MBs worth of updates on the first run anyway).
No matter how many people use CFW in a moral way (only ripping their own games, not redistributing them and deleting the backups when reselling), there was nothing preventing a ripped game from being seeded into P2P networks. Well, not there is: without UMD, the game cannot be ripped, and cannot be illegally shared.
For Sony to be taking such "drastic" measures so quickly, I'm pretty sure they might be seeing quite healthy sales in the PSN store. I'm sure they can recoup the lost revenue from "digitally-out-of-reach-or-allergic" customers by cutting the costs of pressing UMDs. Not to mention that they probably get more out of a $15 download than from a $30 retail copy.
And about the empty box... it's meant for two things: gifts and kids. It's no different than buying a Valve game in retail (which would still download ~500MBs worth of updates on the first run anyway).
M3d10n said:
I agree with most of what you said but don't people still crack DD products all the time?
Anyway this is one of the more logical moves Sony has made recently, even if my preference is still for physical copies. There are 50 million units out there, and the development costs are lower than PS3 games. Somebody had to have gotten a light bulb over their head and thought "we should be making money from software on this thing."
It sucks that legit purchasers get caught in the cross fire (in terms of not being able to choose a physical copy) but the circumstances pretty much demanded this happen. It'll be interesting if a trend develops where Gamestop is selling more products that they can't offer to buy back in a week.
Thanks Sony for giving us CHOICES.
I want a physical copy or digital one that let me:
-download it anytime and forever
-store it anywhere I want
-can lend to friends
-can sell it
Since this game might be the first step toward "digital only" and a test for the next PSP way of working, I might simply not buy this game. I can't encourage a movement I don't believe in, as ridiculous as 15$ is.
.
I want a physical copy or digital one that let me:
-download it anytime and forever
-store it anywhere I want
-can lend to friends
-can sell it
Since this game might be the first step toward "digital only" and a test for the next PSP way of working, I might simply not buy this game. I can't encourage a movement I don't believe in, as ridiculous as 15$ is.
.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Ranger X said:
I couldn't agree more. I don't understand why so many of you are so quick to jump on the DD bandwagon. History has shown that cutting out the middle man has not reduced the cost to the consumer, and then you're giving up all resale and lending rights. I also have no faith in Sony / Microsoft / Nintendo having my best interests in their mind 10 years from now when authentication servers will inevitably be shut down. For a forum that caters so much to hardcore gaming collectors, I just don't get the excitement.
Beer Monkey
Member
I still say Gamestop will refuse to carry this unless they can sell it for the exact same price as PSN direct and still make a profit. A $5 idiot tax isn't going to fly.
RedNumberFive said:
My excitement comes from having no more gaming clutter. I firmly believe that both physical and digital copies should co-exist, but for portable gaming, I'm firmly in digital camp.
I wonder how many people here against DD buy games off PSN, XBLA or the PC. Where's the hate there? You can't resell the games. There's no physical copies. All of your complaints don't apply. What's the difference here?
shpankey
not an idiot
no more disks to carry around. no worry about loss, theft. don't have an issue with scratched disks. the quick and easiness of just pushing a few buttons to play a different game, two presses and i'm out and doing something else like browsing psn. two more and i'm quickly in an entirely different game playing.
there's more reasons to like DD that just cost savings. I care about that the LEAST of all the bonuses for going DD.
there's more reasons to like DD that just cost savings. I care about that the LEAST of all the bonuses for going DD.
Tylahedras
Banned
Kintaro said:
There's no difference, and although I have bought a couple downloadable games I've felt buyers remorse at not being able to sell them. Which is why I'm now going to be unbelievably picky when it comes to what I actually purchase. Again I view it more as a very long rental because judging by their policy that's what these companies seem to be going for. But hey if it's a really good game for 5$ then it's rental price and I certainly get to keep it for a pretty long time.
Just don't tell me I own it, because that's clearly not the case.
goldenticket
Member
all of these reasons and cheaper cost is why i like the idea of DD and looking forward to more of itshpankey said:
It's not about choice. It's about reality. Publishers were faced for years with potential revenue dampers in form of piracy and in-store trade-ins (along with other issues like front-loading, limited shelf-space and overall product lifetime). When asked about it, gamers said: "It's their problem!", and behold, they came up with a solution, and are putting it into motion.RedNumberFive said:
DD(only) is the future, whether you loathe it or not. The most we can do is bitch enough to get as much of a fair DD as it can get.
disappeared
Banned
B.K. said:
RoboPlato said:
I think what you guys seem to be missing is the fact that Sony is, at heart, a business. They need to keep costs low while trying to maximize profit. Not to mention we (gamers and the suits up in Sony's fortress) are in an economic slump the likes of which none of us have ever experienced before. Digital distribution has proven itself as a more cost-effective way of releasing a product (be it film, music, or a video game). Sony is merely testing the waters with a move like this, trying to see if it will pay off. Hate to break it to you, but I don't think that they're really all that concerned over a few thousand internet forum-goers who are going to be pissed that they didn't get a little plastic disc to covet when the lights go out. Sure, it's those same hardcore fans that championed the original game enough to warrant a sequel, but times are tougher and both game developers and publishers everywhere are attempting to adapt.
I haven't owned a PS3 or a PSP for over a year now, so really I couldn't care less as to how Patapon 2 is distributed. Rather I'm just trying to get across a point that digital distribution is the future of this industry, as much as some of you folks don't want to hear it. It's cheaper for the industry, which in turn will hopefully mean it is cheaper for the consumer. We have seen some strange things in regards to DLC, but keep in mind that the entire concept is still in its infancy. Eventually things will balance and by that time we'll all be full-nelsoned into subscription-based services where we'll pay a static fee to play games via an internet connection.
Or maybe none of what I've said makes any sense.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Tylahedras said:
Agreed. I have bought a few DD games on the 360, PSN, and iPhone and I sometimes regret doing so. I can't really bring the game to a friend's house to play outside of jumping through hoops to move my account over. I also don't have the ability to sell the game if it's complete crap, or if I just plain get sick of it. On something like the iPhone, I don't care as much since most of the games I've picked up are 99 cent time wasters, but when I'm spening more than $10 I like the options afforded to me with a physical product. I also still firmly believe that the content providers don't have my best interest in mind. We still don't know if XBLA and PSN games will transfer over to the next generation of consoles, or rather if it will provide Microsoft and Sony another opprotunity to sell us back the game again. With backwards compatibility being pretty much phased out this generation, why risk it? I understand that some of you like having to not deal with a physical product as space around your home might not be limited, but it seems like an uneven trade-off for the rights you're giving up. Also, if you really believe that DD will lead to savings being passed on to the average gamer, you are living in complete denial.
Kintaro said:
Perception. There is a difference as nothing is completely objective anyways. I do buy games on PSN and Wiiware/VC but it's not the same thing as buying a PS3 and Wii game. The main meat need to stay physical for me. DD only = renting. I want to try games this way or simply have some lesser timekiller of a game for SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAP.
What I don't want to happen is the main "medium" for gaming to be digital distribution only. I want my main gaming physical just like my movies, books and music. How simple is that.
I like to "own" things. DD only isn't "owning" for as long as it doesn't cover all the convenience that a physical copy can give you. It also need to be significantly cheaper and we all know it won't be. Lastly, I believe in attacking problems at the root. Not when it will be widespread and really starting to hurt. DD only on handhelds is a promise they will try to transfert this to everything else if successful. Let's face it, DD only = fiscal paradise where you can control the customer ALOT more.
Just would wait in your DD futur of activation fees, download fees, account maintenance, etc. They will bring you a new bullshit to pay, step by step, slowly, so you can swallow it up.
.
dasupremeone
Member
can you download a psp game and play it on your ps3 withouth a psp hw?
RedNumberFive
Banned
dasupremeone said:
No you can not. I would imagine that they could create software to do this, but I wouldn't count on it.
RedNumberFive
Banned
panda21 said:
Even in the current generation I've had issues. I had to send my Wii in repair and I was told that there was no guarantee of being able to recover my VC titles if they had to send me back another console. I said what the hell, and I was told to read the license agreement. Luckily they sent the same console back, but what happens when they quit repairing this generation of consoles. I can't move the license over to the new console, and then the games will be lost forever.
I had a similar issue with the 360 prior to the license transfer tool. I had multiple console failures and the licensing on the games was all tied to the old consoles. At the time, my internet connection was spotty at best, so I was pretty much out of luck. Microsoft has already shut down one of their prior music services, and now users have songs locked to one computer forever. Why would I trust them with $60 games?
Why place trust in these companies to both play fair and keep the authentication servers running? Read the EULAs on these things. They have no reason or incentive to provide you with a recovery down the line.
Furthermore, what happens when licensed properties change hands? Something like Ducktales on the NES will never hit the VC because of issues like this. What will happen if I bought a DD copy of say Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, and then the Marvel license changes over to another company?
I suppose that at a message board like this, that caters to the more hard-core gamer and collector, I expected a different response.
Agent X
Member
panda21 said:
If the next-generation systems are backward compatible, then I can't see any reason why the downloadable games wouldn't and shouldn't be transferrable. I know some people have said that the hardware manufacturers would want you to rebuy the games, but that defies logic in the current competitive state of the industry where you've got three large and established console manufacturers. It would be too much of a competitive edge to sacrifice. If one of them decided to ditch their established digital download library and start over from scratch, it would look very bad when the other two could maintain full compatibility with hundreds or even thousands of games available from day one.
Could you imagine what would happen if Apple suddenly introduced a new iPod product line and declared that none of your existing iTunes downloads would work with these devices? It would be catastrophic.
Well aside for reselling, PSN allows the rest of items on your list. Mind you - as long as collectors exist, I doubt packaged-goods in gaming will ever disappear, no matter how much DD ends up dominating (short of inventing replicators or something similarly sci-fi).Ranger X said:
That hasn't been true for around 2 years now. That said, convenience of PSN downloads vs. UMD speaks for itself.M3d10n said:
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Prepare to be shocked then.
http://www.ebgames.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=73941
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
Agent X said:
They did it before. iPod 5.5G games are incompatible with iPhone and the iPod Touch, granted the library was (and still is) nowhere near as vast as the App Store is now (especially because of the glut of crap out there apparently).
mistuhcahlos
Member
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this too. So let me get this straight....I can CHOOSE to buy the Patapon 2 game voucher for $20 and get a box and instructions (but I lose out on $5 with this deal), or I can choose to buy a $20 PSN card, which will get me the game (for $15) and still have an extra $5 to spend (which I can then save for future Rock Band: Unplugged downloads)? I know it sounds crazy, but I'm going with the latter.Ether_Snake said:
If they did this with any other game, I'd probably be upset because I like having physical copies of games. But with THIS game, I'm all in. I normally carry one game at a time when I leave the house, but since Patapon requires so much concentration, I'd rather just have it as a download and carry a physical copy of something a little more casual.
XxBigP123xX
Member
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
XxBigP123xX said:
It was a no-brainer what this week's Patapon 2 themed blog post would be, let's wait to read their side of the story.