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Article: The King of Final Fantasy reveals why the series is “struggling”

wvnative

wvnative

Member
I find it weird he says it's currently struggling, FF14 is massive in both success and fan reception, 7 remake had glowing reception and presumably outsold internal expectations, and people seem pretty on board from what we've seen of 16. I feel like it's finding it's way now.
 
Bernd Lauert

Bernd Lauert

Banned
iQuasarLV said:
Weird to see that producers still have to prove themselves even when they're leading the charge of the only profit their company sees. Then again, it could also speak as to why a company ISN'T posting profits from everything they put out.
Click to expand...
That's Square Enix for you. What a shit show. I'm confident that Yoshi-P will make FF16 a great game, though.
 
lh032

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
ironically, final fantasy is one of the few "successful" long time JRPG so far, which every sequel/spinoff will sell millions anyway.
 
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Punished Miku

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Kinda seems like a clickbait title to me. I'm not yet convinced on Yoshida personally, but willing to give the game a shot for sure. He doesn't seem that forward looking, considering he's basically tried to emulate WOW and starting XIV off on nostalgia and fan call backs, and now emulating DMC.

SQEX could immediately make FF shockingly interesting if they wanted to give an entry to Yoko Taro.

Also I think the people behind FFVII remake are the real main FF team, and they're being wasted on a remake trilogy which is stifling the series for two generations. It's most of the legacy people from FFX and FFXIII working on that, and the graphics, art, and innovative battle system are similar advancements to their past work. The best composers are on that as well, with Hamauzu and Suzuki chipping in, but limited to remakes of Uematsu tracks that aren't that great.

Forspoken seems like they don't have confidence in the creative side, so they outsourced it to western writers after criticism of XV. They need creative leads that aren't afraid to push into interesting new territory. Pretty much the only other two people known to have the confidence and organizational ability to do that are Nomura and Toriyama, both wasted on VII remakes right now when their strengths are original content creation.

SQEX is doing the right thing currently by letting people experiment a bit more with AA games. It may lead to more directors with confidence to try new things.
 
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Fbh

Fbh

Member
The price maybe.
There's only one KING of Final Fantasy

sakaguchi-mega64.gif



Anyway kinda shitty article, they mostly just describe his career and he barely even gets into why he thinks "Final Fantasy is Struggling"
 
Nankatsu

Nankatsu

Gold Member
Dope interview.

Always wanted to try out FFXIV, but never did.

Who knows, maybe on day I'll tackle it.
 
Umbasaborne

Umbasaborne

Banned
I think they are running into a scoping issue. The snes and ps1 final fantasy games were grand in scope…but they didnt need to render all that scope in 3d high detail. Now they do, and they are still struggling to catch up to other studios in this regard, even if things have improved.
 
Astral Dog

Astral Dog

Member
He is just saying Final Fantasy needs to cater to every trend to remain successful(and do it well) while keep innovating.

The old fanbase keeps whining they want a traditional turn based game, many fans want an action RPG game and many others a Multiplayer online game.

Right now there are some traditional games that Square Enix is releasing, they just don't carry the Final Fantasy name, and they already expect FFXVI won't please everyone
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Best Final Fantasy to this day is still FFIX and Xenoblade is leagues ahead of current Final Fantasy when it comes to delivering that sweet sweet JRPG experience that keeps me exploring the game and all it's lore with memorable characters and telling a story about friendship and the adventure that follows.

XIV only has story going for it and is just a theme park MMO where 90% of it's content is instanced. Not a bad thing but highly similar to WoW.

Furthermore it's gameplay and combat have only been getting worse ever since Stormblood, butchered in Shadowbringers and dumbed down further in Endwalker. And as far as I can see it very much is going to copy WoW right down to having endgame raids being the only content they have to do. Other then that it's play Market Board, House Lottery(they fucked this thing over and made gil worthless since you won't ever win)) and relic grinds.

I also would like to say the article is pretty bad in painting Yoshi P as the King of Final Fantasy when the right answer is Sakaguchi.

I think FF as a brand is very successful however I can agree it's struggling since FF15 tanked and FF14 is primarily a hit because of success coasting on past FF entries and implementing them into the game and that there really isn't anything else that is a "new" FF game.

I dunno if FF16 will reignite the sparks FF once had but to me FF13 and FF15 being the flops that they were is not a good sign.

It's very interesting overall since Yoshi P was successful in the FFXIV turnaround and given how Nomura handled his projects it seems like SE in regards to FF has no one to turn to but Yoshi.

Going to be interesting to see how things develop.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
The problem with Final Fantasy and Square Enix in general, is the problem with Japan.

They still don't understand the world market and the "hardcore JRPG fans" still have too much sway within the company.
 
F

FStubbs

Member
Astral Dog said:
He is just saying Final Fantasy needs to cater to every trend to remain successful(and do it well) while keep innovating.

The old fanbase keeps whining they want a traditional turn based game, many fans want an action RPG game and many others a Multiplayer online game.

Right now there are some traditional games that Square Enix is releasing, they just don't carry the Final Fantasy name, and they already expect FFXVI won't please everyone
Click to expand...
Octopath/Bravely Default is basically the series for people who want an old school Final Fantasy experience.
 
Airbus Jr

Airbus Jr

Banned
clickbait article? cos ff14 and 15 are no way strugling, others jrpg can dream to have their success

7 are also doing great so far
 
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J

JohnnyTropics

Neo Member
ChorizoPicozo said:
As Sony said in relation of Call Of Duty:

FF is a 'genre' by itself.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.
Squeenix's mistake, IMO, is not fully embracing this concept by creating some sort of cohesion within the brand.
This interview glosses over the fact that sandwiched between the releases of 15 and 16 they re-released FF1-6 as pixel remasters to tell those stories again, and then released Stranger of Paradise which is another take on the FF1 story, and then additionally are releasing FF7 remakes.
They have this universe that they love telling stories in, and you would think 35 years of fan goodwill would give them the confidence to tell stories in that universe that fans have some background knowledge of, to give us those "ah ha!" moments. Ala Disney with Star Wars.
I say that to say: give me a glossy, hardcover, 500 page atlas of the Final Fantasy universe. Connect the games, detail the summons, give me some chocobo evolutionary history. Make the call which things are canon, and which things aren't. Then, don't worry about mainline entries, just tell different stories in different areas of the universe that you want to.
Show me the Warriors of Darkness battling the flood of light in FF3.
Show me original 4 warriors who sealed ExDeath away.
 
MagiusNecros

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I don't think FF3: WoD, FF5: Warriors of Dawn or FFX-3: Braska's Pilgrimage is ever gonna happen.

It should but it won't.

Current future of FF is just a whole lot of FF7 and FF16.
 
kiphalfton

kiphalfton

Member
The irony is SE upper management bitches about games falling short of sales expectation, but they are the ones to push the shitty changes. Then they have the audacity to blame the devs for the game underperforming.
 
I

iQuasarLV

Member
kiphalfton said:
The irony is SE upper management bitches about games falling short of sales expectation, but they are the ones to push the shitty changes. Then they have the audacity to blame the devs for the game underperforming.
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That is the funny thing I found about this article, that Yoshi-P has to still prove himself to upper management to get shit done. Eventhough he has almost single-handedly steered fan favor in SE favor for 10 years now. The man has kept SE afloat while they botched two mainline franchise releases over those same 10 years.
 
Fuz

Fuz

Banned
FStubbs said:
Octopath/Bravely Default is basically the series for people who want an old school Final Fantasy experience.
Click to expand...
Dunno about BD, but Octopath is crap. It's nowhere near the experience of FF.

iQuasarLV said:
That is the funny thing I found about this article, that Yoshi-P has to still prove himself to upper management to get shit done. Eventhough he has almost single-handedly steered fan favor in SE favor for 10 years now. The man has kept SE afloat while they botched two mainline franchise releases over those same 10 years.
Click to expand...
Meanwhile, they're freely giving important projects to that hack nomura.
 
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Punished Miku

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Fbh said:
The price maybe.
There's only one KING of Final Fantasy

sakaguchi-mega64.gif



Anyway kinda shitty article, they mostly just describe his career and he barely even gets into why he thinks "Final Fantasy is Struggling"
Click to expand...
There are adults born after he stopped being "King of Final Fantasy." That was a very long time ago.
 
F

FStubbs

Member
Fuz said:
Dunno about BD, but Octopath is crap. It's nowhere near the experience of FF.


Meanwhile, they're freely giving important projects to that hack nomura.
Click to expand...
I think those games are natural evolutions of the NES/SNES Final Fantasy games. To each his own.

I will point out that they sell quite well so clearly they're filling the need for a lot of people, even if not for you.
 
Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
FStubbs said:
Xenoblade 3 is on Switch. I'd think it's not comparable in budget and production to FF.
Click to expand...

Platform has nothing to do with production and budget. They spend a good deal taking the hardware into account and more than the last two.

Against theres no other Jrpg you can mention that's closer than XB.

ChorizoPicozo said:
As Sony said in relation of Call Of Duty:

FF is a 'genre' by itself.
Click to expand...

FF has no relation to COD.
 
peronmls

peronmls

Member
Square has horrible management. A bunch of dev shuffling and not knowing what they want to do. KH and versus13 was the beginning of the end of FF and of course it died when KH3 came out... FF13 an vs13 completely changed squares tactics.
 
Yumi

Yumi

Member
AJUMP23 said:
They messed up when they went 3D.
Click to expand...
I think they messed up when they poured tons of money into “Spirits Within” then dumped Sakaguchi. Don’t know all the info, i’m pretty sure a lot of people left with him to form Mistwalker.

And im not saying Sakaguchi is the sole reason the Final Fantasy’s we’re good, just there was a major shift after that. Probably, like most things, big money got involved and started changing things. And everything took way longer after this point. FF12 had troubled development. Then there was the whole mess that was “Fabula Nova Crystallis”.

I’ve got a feeling Square is still recouperating from all this nonsense. I remember someone on the team saying they wouldn’t remake Final Fantasy 7 because it would prove that they were unable to make a game as good as it. Wether you find that true or not, it’s kind of an admit to defeat.

I do have hopes for Yoshi P and FF16 he seems very grounded and realistic.
 
F

FStubbs

Member
Eddie-Griffin said:
Platform has nothing to do with production and budget. They spend a good deal taking the hardware into account and more than the last two.

Against theres no other Jrpg you can mention that's closer than XB.



FF has no relation to COD.
Click to expand...
Tales perhaps. Tales of Arise had pretty high production values.

(There's also Dragon Quest but that's also Square-Enix so it doesn't count)
 
Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
peronmls said:
Square has horrible management. A bunch of dev shuffling and not knowing what they want to do. KH and versus13 was the beginning of the end of FF and of course it died when KH3 came out... FF13 an vs13 completely changed squares tactics.
Click to expand...

It was never revealed how much money they poured into the XIII engine but it apparently it got in the way of profits enough that they needed two more games based on XIII using the same technology despite the over 6 million sold XIII achieved.

But one could argue the trends for that and the sprites within movie started with 6. when they overproduced a 2D rpgs on limited hardware and it sparked them to spend even more and outsource a lot of work for the cinematic experience which led to FF7 and the trail from there led right to Spirits Within and FFX.
 
Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
FStubbs said:
Tales perhaps. Tales of Arise had pretty high production values.

(There's also Dragon Quest but that's also Square-Enix so it doesn't count)
Click to expand...

Tales has always been a lower produced series, Arise just seems bigger than it is because of how middle production the last few games were.
 
Dr. Wilkinson

Dr. Wilkinson

Member
I really liked FF XV. The story was truly moving, I loved the combat, and the whole "four besties go on an adventure together and go camping and get into shenanigans" was something really special. And from what I've seen of 16, it does not look so good. It looks like a regression, to be honest. XV had it's issues, but the core gameplay loop was actually really fun. Some of the side quests were filler and a bit tedious, but they can work on that for the next one. 16 not being open-world is a bummer, and from what I've seen of the combat, it just really does not look so good.

Definitely a wait and see for me.
 
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Punished Miku

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Eddie-Griffin said:
It was never revealed how much money they poured into the XIII engine but it apparently it got in the way of profits enough that they needed two more games based on XIII using the same technology despite the over 6 million sold XIII achieved.
Click to expand...
Not really aiming this against you personally, but to this day everyone misunderstands what the role of XIII was at that time. Toriyama emerged as one of the only competent directors in the whole company with experience managing AAA development and project completion.

He turned in a trilogy of games on time, and on budget. He led the first of the major SQEX teams to tackle the development challenges of HD gaming, and was doing this on the PS3's busted cell design. Rather than having projects delayed for years, he lead the team into more linear and stripped down gameplay so they could still complete the game. Then he expanded into larger zones and open world in the two sequels, with less budget and still completed on time.

In contrast XIV shit the bed so hard it had to be remade. Nomura couldn't get a game out at all. Everyone completely failed at SQEX for that entire generation except the FFXIII team. They put out a trilogy because they were the only competent team making games left. They're wasted on FFVII Remake.
 
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Eddie-Griffin

Eddie-Griffin

Banned
Punished Miku said:
Not really aiming this against you personally, but to this day everyone misunderstands what the role of XIII was at that time. Toriyama emerged as one of the only competent directors in the whole company with experience managing AAA development and project completion.

He turned in a trilogy of games on time, and on budget. He led the first of the major SQEX teams to tackle the development challenges of HD gaming, and was doing this on the PS3's busted cell design. Rather than having projects delayed for years, he lead the team into more linear and stripped down gameplay so they could still complete the game. Then he expanded into larger zones and open world in the two sequels, with less budget and still completed on time.

In contrast XIV shit the bed so hard it had to be remade. Nomura couldn't get a game out at all. Everyone completely failed at SQEX for that entire generation except the FFXIII team. They put out a trilogy because they were the only competent team making games left. They're wasted on FFVII Remake.
Click to expand...

I don't know if FFXIII was on budget given what's been said about it, but yes they did have the highest output and least number of delays.

The problem is FFXIII-2 showed they could have had an open-world FFXIII from the start and that restricting the game wasn't necessary. As a matter of fact, the original FFXIII was said by Square to be influenced by COD so I believe the linear design may have actually been on purpose.

But other than that everything else that team did has been stellar so far. As much as you don't like them being assigned to FF7Remake, it's arguable that Square actually needed it to keep going giving how badly managed the company is, and by making it episodic they don't risk having high sales but low profits since they aren't pouring large amounts of money into one major game. Splitting it into parts means less cash wasted on each release.
 
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SteelCurtain 59

SteelCurtain 59

Member
It's struggling because it's taken them so long to make games that Final Fantasy has drastically lost relevance. Final Fantasy 13 released in 2009, Final Fantasy 14 was/is an MMO, Final Fantasy 15 released in 2016. 7 years between mainline non-MMO games is a lot, and it will be the same length between 15 and 16. How is somebody expected to become a fan of a series in modern times when the modern games have been so spaced out, and generally regarded as some of the worst in the series. Sure it's probably the biggest non-Pokemon JRPG, but the lead seems to be slipping away as games like Persona and Xenoblade start gaining much more mainstream recognition. Much will depend on how 16 does, if it has similar reception to the Final Fantasy games since the start of the PS3/360 era the franchise as a whole could be in danger of no longer being "the" non-Pokemon JRPG
 
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