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[IndoAssassin]

We're not in the darkest timeline so to speak, at least China is taking it seriously. India and USA are the biggest obstacles from a global perspective.



That's one helluva swamp to drain

You do know that India is currently building the largest solar array in the world.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Anyone who thinks this means human extinction or even the end of industrial civilization is delusional.

 

[Vagabundo]

Anyone who thinks this means human extinction or even the end of industrial civilization is delusional.

Maybe, but we're gifting our kids and grandkids a challenging future - nevermind all those kids in the developing world that will probably die as a direct result.

 

[HarryHengst]

Anyone who thinks this means human extinction or even the end of industrial civilization is delusional.

Lol if you think it wont be the end of industrial civilization as we know it today.

 

[jmdajr]

People with the means will adapt. Poors are hosed though.

 

[Sulik2]

Just to be extra cheery lets also not forget that automation is about to destroy capitalism and labor as we know it and it will likely destroy any concept of a middle class within our lifetimes. We are also facing a return of infectious diseases as we lose antibiotics. Something the UN is very concerned with btw. I have a hard time imagining human civilization as we know it still existing in 50 years under the pressures of climate change, automation and disease.

 

[Steejee]

Lol if you think it wont be the end of industrial civilization as we know it today.

Well, it'll certainly be the end *as we know it*. What comes after is still up in the air.

 

[pr0cs]

Maybe, but we're gifting our kids and grandkids a challenging future - nevermind all those kids in the developing world that will probably die as a direct result.

If you are having children or plan to have children you are part of the problem

 

[Dilly]

If you are having children or plan to have children you are part of the problem

If you're not throwing yourselves off a bridge right now, you're part of the problem!

 

[Straight Edge]

If you are having children or plan to have children you are part of the problem

If you eat meat, drive a car, buy electronics, or partake in modern society in most ways you are part of the problem.

 

[ClosingADoor]

If you are having children or plan to have children you are part of the problem

Or you know... those future kids will contribute to a better planet.

Btw, please shut down your PC right now, you are part of the problem. And stop eating food. And using water.

 

[Straight Edge]

Lol if you think it wont be the end of industrial civilization as we know it today.

LOL if you think we will regress to a pre industrial society.

 

[Theonik]

If you are having children or plan to have children you are part of the problem

We could always just nuke a few developing countries.
Bonus: The nuclear winter will also cool the planet!

 

[Kurdel]

Anyone who thinks this means human extinction or even the end of industrial civilization is delusional.

Yep.

The first thing we mastered as a species was surviving our harsh environment, we will roll with the punches.

Or you know... those future kids will contribute to a better planet.

Btw, please shut down your PC right now, you are part of the problem. And stop eating food. And using water.

Nah, you are just exponentially adding to your carbon footprint.

 

[Shredderi]

Fucking hell why did I have to be born to a generation that has a slow apocalypse to look forward to. I wish I was born 50 years ago and lived my good years comfortably, creating the problems we suffer from now instead of suffering the consequences of them. I've made a decision: If we go full-on Fallout and I make it through the initial hurdle, I'm going full Raider.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Nah, you are just exponentially adding to your carbon footprint.

Every day you are alive adds to your carbon footprint in probably higher amounts. The sentiment of not having kids, because they will only be bad for the planet is just strange. Also, if you live in a first world country, the birth rate is probably under the replacement rate, so more people are dying there then being born. Does that then free up space to have a kid?

 

[PeskyToaster]

I doubt it will even be as bad as the Black Death. That was like 50% of Europe's population gone. God awful to live through but it had great societal benefits.

 

[Kurdel]

Every day you are alive adds to your carbon footprint in probably higher amounts. The sentiment of not having kids, because they will only be bad for the planet is just strange. Also, if you live in a first world country, the birth rate is probably under the replacement rate, so more people are dying there then being born. Does that then free up space to have a kid?

I know there are arguments to why having kids is productive on the short-medium term in terms of economic growth.

What I am saying is we are fucking over our planet to sustain this mess, and people in the west can do smarter things than have 5 kids because "they always wanted a big family" or shit reasons like that.

 

[UFO]

Anyone who thinks this means human extinction or even the end of industrial civilization is delusional.

Yeah, some of the replies in this thread are baffling.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

You do know that India is currently building the largest solar array in the world.

That would be great 30 years ago. Now our destruction is guaranteed.

 

[HarryHengst]

LOL if you think we will regress to a pre industrial society.

There is a middle ground between pre industrial and globalized capitalism as we have now.

 

[the1npc]

Yeah, some of the replies in this thread are baffling.

Extinction levels could easly happen in the 3rd world especially if the first world isnt keen on climate refuges and there will be unfathomable numbers

 

[Alexlf]

Anyone here willing to drive less, eat less meat, use less AC or buy less stuff in general?

I haven't driven in 5 years, I eat red meat once every 2 weeks, chicken about twice a week, I never use AC and I try to buy everything I can locally. It's not as hard as you think if you live in even a moderately sized a city, just give it a try folks. It's absolutely the best thing you can do as an individual to help the environment.

EDIT:
That is, if you don't have children. I imagine it gets a little bit harder then lol.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I know there are arguments to why having kids is productive on the short-medium term in terms of economic growth.

What I am saying is we are fucking over our planet to sustain this mess, and people in the west can do smarter things than have 5 kids because "they always wanted a big family" or shit reasons like that.

People in the West are not having 5 kids though. They are having less then 2 kids on average.

Also, economic growth leads to less kids. We see this development in African nations that do better for example.

The problem is not having kids or too many people. The problem is that we do not switch over to systems that can provide for those people in climate neutral ways quickly enough.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Rich countries are going to weather the worst of it until we get our act together with just some mild bruising and scrapes, it's the developing world that will face calamity.


We (US, Canada, Japan, and Europe) are not going to run out of water, we aren't going to even approach starvation. We might lose beef, we might need to spend on more desalination plants or water pipelines, we will probably have a hard transition away from fossil fuels, people are going to lose jobs. Even a half competent government can avert the worst.

 

[Theonik]

Rich countries are going to weather the worst of it until we get our act together with just some mild bruising and scrapes, it's the developing world that will face calamity.

And what pray tell will you do with the huge influx of refugees? Ignroing for a moment that geography does not reflect wealth distribution here. (I.E. many first world nations might be more affected than some 3rd world ones.)

 

[ClosingADoor]

And what pray tell will you do with the huge influx of refugees? Ignroing for a moment that geography does not reflect wealth distribution here. (I.E. many first world nations might be more affected than some 3rd world ones.)

Going to see a lot more of these.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

And what pray tell will you do with the huge influx of refugees? Ignroing for a moment that geography does not reflect wealth distribution here. (I.E. many first world nations might be more affected than some 3rd world ones.)

The United States and Canada at least are geographically isolated, there is only one real avenue of approach for refugees. We might have to make hard decisions and prevent them from entering, depending on what happens where we might even need to assume direct control of Latin American/Caribbean nations.

 

[TyrantII]

Rich countries are going to weather the worst of it until we get our act together with just some mild bruising and scrapes, it's the developing world that will face calamity.


We (US, Canada, Japan, and Europe) are not going to run out of water, we aren't going to even approach starvation. We might lose beef, we might need to spend on more desalination plants or water pipelines, we will probably have a hard transition away from fossil fuels, people are going to lose jobs. Even a half competent government can avert the worst.

Most of the US population lives on large lakes, navigable rivers, or the coast. At the least within their regional influence. Trillions in wealth will be lost, or billions spend to maybe protect those assets.

I don't think it's so clear cut. It's going to spark migration, real estate losses, and strife at home as well.

By the end of the century when the plains have summer temperatures approaching that of Phoenix, it's going to be hard to keep domestic food production going.

 

[offtopic]

Rich countries are going to weather the worst of it until we get our act together with just some mild bruising and scrapes, it's the developing world that will face calamity.


We (US, Canada, Japan, and Europe) are not going to run out of water, we aren't going to even approach starvation. We might lose beef, we might need to spend on more desalination plants or water pipelines, we will probably have a hard transition away from fossil fuels, people are going to lose jobs. Even a half competent government can avert the worst.

Best case CO2 doesn't go much above 500ppm....but 1000ppm is possible on our current course. The hydrologic cycle and carbon cycle will eventually take care of it but we are talking on a geologic time scale. Life will definitely continue to exist but not with the diversity or composition we see today.

We don't know what will happen in rich countries with the collapse of ecosystems around the world in addition to the millions of climate refugees this will create. This dynamic will also increase global conflict and make first world countries even more targeted by terror.

 

[Shredderi]

And what pray tell will you do with the huge influx of refugees? Ignroing for a moment that geography does not reflect wealth distribution here. (I.E. many first world nations might be more affected than some 3rd world ones.)

The answer to that might be surprisingly simple. You'll just see a massive amount of walls and propably even armed solutions to keep the impossible massive waves of refugees outside if they try to enter by force (and who could blame them if their own countries are fucked).

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Most of the US population lives on lakes or the coast. Trillions in wealth will be lost, or billions spend to maybe protect those assets.

I don't think it's so clear cut. It's going to spark migration, real estate losses, and strife at home as well.

By the end of the century when the plains have summer temperatures approaching that of Phoenix, it's going to be hard to keep domestic food production going.

If trends keep going more arable land should open up farther north. The Great Lakes alone contain 21% of all freshwater on Earth, all other freshwater, above and below ground in North America, with proper management we will never run out. Hopefully the US and Canada will finally become one nation, the vast resources of both nations are more than enough to weather any changes.

It's going to be rough, no doubt, and there will be big changes to our way of life, but the core of who we are, the core of our civilization will not change.

 

[WedgeX]

If trends keep going more arable land should open up farther north. The Great Lakes alone contain 21% of all freshwater on Earth, all other freshwater, above and below ground in North America, with proper management we will never run out. Hopefully the US and Canada will finally become one nation, the vast resources of both nations are more than enough to weather any changes.

It's going to be rough, no doubt, and there will be big changes to our way of life, but the core of who we are, the core of our civilization will not change.

The United States and Canada at least are geographically isolated, there is only one real avenue of approach for refugees. We might have to make hard decisions and prevent them from entering, depending on what happens where we might even need to assume direct control of Latin American/Caribbean nations.

There's some real disconnect here.

 

[HarryHengst]

If trends keep going more arable land should open up farther north. The Great Lakes alone contain 21% of all freshwater on Earth, all other freshwater, above and below ground in North America, with proper management we will never run out. Hopefully the US and Canada will finally become one nation, the vast resources of both nations are more than enough to weather any changes.

It's going to be rough, no doubt, and there will be big changes to our way of life, but the core of who we are, the core of our civilization will not change.

The core of your civilization lies not with fresh water but with industrialized production on a global scale. When that goes, and it will, your core will completely change.

 

[offtopic]

Most of the US population lives on large lakes, navigable rivers, or the coast. At the least within their regional influence. Trillions in wealth will be lost, or billions spend to maybe protect those assets.

I don't think it's so clear cut. It's going to spark migration, real estate losses, and strife at home as well.

By the end of the century when the plains have summer temperatures approaching that of Phoenix, it's going to be hard to keep domestic food production going.

Yup. USDA has a site that allows you to view plant hardiness and growing seasons around the country. If you play with it you can see considerable changes since 1990. Our current agricultural processes will crash and changes will be required.

http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/Default.aspx

 

[TheChamp]

No one will do anything until its almsot too late and a AI spells it out

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

The core of your civilization lies not with fresh water but with industrialized production on a global scale. When that goes, and it will, your core will completely change.

It depends what changes first. If 3D printing and robotics becomes the main source of manufacturing it won't matter where it's done. Imagine massive solar powered fully robotic 3D printing plants sprawled out over the American southwest. Total self-sufficency isn't impossible.

 

[Insane Metal]

Also, March 2017 is the second warmest March in record since 1880... and that is without an El Niño to mess with the climate.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201703

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Rich countries are going to weather the worst of it until we get our act together with just some mild bruising and scrapes, it's the developing world that will face calamity.

Yep.

The first thing we mastered as a species was surviving our harsh environment, we will roll with the punches.

I think those calling for the end of humanity are taking things too far, but these counterpoints are not going far enough. This isn't just about coastlines being altered and mass migration. Farm belts will disappear. Ecosystems will collapse- leading to unpredictable outcomes in nature. Food supplies will be disrupted in catastrophic ways. We're already stretched overly thin trying to keep 7 billion people going on the amount of resources we currently produce on a global scale. It won't take much to tip the balance.

The global economy will be devastated by these changes. Economies will implode. Governments will collapse. The resulting instability will lead to war, famine and internment- especially in the 2nd and 3rd world. Even in wealthy nations like the US, the price of commodities will far outstrip what the working class can afford. This will make the 2008 collapse look like a Disney film, and it won't be something we recover from by moving more imaginary money around.

Yes, humanity will go on, but this will bring the biggest paradigm shift we've probably seen in humanity's short history. Predicting exactly what will happen is near impossible, but predicting that it will be bad is likely a grave understatement.

This won't happen all at once. It will be a gradual descent, but humanity's continual unwillingness to either prevent it or prepare for it makes it essentially inevitable.

It depends what changes first. If 3D printing and robotics becomes the main source of manufacturing it won't matter where it's done. Imagine massive solar powered fully robotic 3D printing plants sprawled out over the American southwest. Total self-sufficency isn't impossible.

I'd be curious to know how much corn and wheat we might be able to produce from these 3D printing plants.

 

[MisterFalcon]

I think those calling for the end of humanity are taking things too far, but these counterpoints are not going far enough. This isn't just about coastlines being altered and mass migration. Farm belts will disappear. Ecosystems will collapse- leading to unpredictable outcomes in nature. Food supplies will be disrupted in catastrophic ways. We're already stretched overly thin trying to keep 7 billion people going on the amount of resources we currently produce on a global scale. It won't take much to tip the balance.

This sounds very much like the late 1960's doomsaying.

The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate.

The Polulation Bomb, 1968

Therefore, the United States must decide to which countries it will send food, to which countries it will not."[2]
In response, they suggest a system of triage in which the United States must "divide the underdeveloped nations into three categories: 1) Those so hopelessly headed for or in the grip of famine (whether because of overpopulation, agricultural insufficiency, or political ineptness) that our aid will be a waste; these "can't-be-saved nations" will be ignored and left to their fate; 2) Those who are suffering but who will stagger through without our aid, "the walking wounded"; and 3) Those who can be saved by our help." [1][3]

Famine 1975 ! 1967

Both books agreed India was doomed and would never be able to feed itself. In the Famine book it was firmly placed in group 1 and it would be a waste to even try to save it.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I'd be curious to know how much corn and wheat we might be able to produce from these 3D printing plants.

Well besides from the current experiments in doing stuff like printing meat from base protein, I was replying to the idea that manufacturing is essential to the core of our civilization and how it can still be achieved in a new climate world.

As for crops, even if the current breadbasket of the Plains becomes arid, the southern taiga of Canada and Alaska will become arable, and as basically untouched land it will be very fertile.

 

[Famassu]

Anyone here willing to drive less, eat less meat, use less AC or buy less stuff in general?

I don't even have a driver's licence, let alone a car, I'm a vegan, I don't have AC and a large majority of the things (furniture, electronics etc.) in my apartment are either hand-me-downs or 7-20+ years old already + whenever I do buy stuff, I try to be as ecological as possible (buy local food, buy seasonal food, even as a vegan avoid or try to use less of some products like food with palm oil, rice & other ecologically somewhat harmful products, put emphasis on quality rather than quality since that'll save nature & my money in the long run even if it's more expensive as a one-time-purchase, recycle & give away stuff for free rather than throw away so long as something is not completely unusable etc.)

 

[WedgeX]

This sounds very much like the late 1960's doomsaying.



The Polulation Bomb, 1968



Famine 1975 ! 1967

Both books agreed India was doomed and would never be able to feed itself. In the Famine book it was firmly placed in group 1 and it would be a waste to even try to save it.

We got extremely lucky that Mexico decided to fund the research that fueled the Green Revolution. Otherwise those things would have come to pass.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

This sounds very much like the late 1960's doomsaying.

Ah, of course. Might as well lump in the ones from the 1970's predicting an ice age as well, because yesterday's missed forecasts must always serve as guarantor for the inaccuracy of today's forecasts.

It was probably a mistake on my part to list the specific things that have climatologists concerned, because then they can be brushed aside or become part of false equivalencies.

I'll just reiterate the last part of my post- which I felt was most important: humanity at large simply isn't doing/hasn't done enough to prevent climate change, and is doing next to nothing to prepare for the consequences it will bring. All indications are that we're going to be reactive rather than proactive, and that's going to lead to unfortunate results, IMO.

 

[Aikidoka]

The answer to that might be surprisingly simple. You'll just see a massive amount of walls and propably even armed solutions to keep the impossible massive waves of refugees outside if they try to enter by force (and who could blame them if their own countries are fucked).

seriously? You know these countries have capabilities to build WMDs including nuclear weapons. Next you'll be advocating that means we need to pre-emptively bomb the shit out of them.

 

[Shredderi]

seriously? You know these countries have capabilities to build WMDs including nuclear weapons. Next you'll be advocating that means we need to pre-emptively bomb the shit out of them.

Advocating? I don't advocate anything. You're speaking to me as if I was a representative for something. I have no idea how to handle the whole thing. I just said what I think will happen if humongous masses will forcefully try to enter countries that think their own societies would collapse under the pressure. It doesn't reflect my own opinions on how it should be handled.

 

[pr0cs]

Btw, please shut down your PC right now, you are part of the problem. And stop eating food. And using water.

If you eat meat, drive a car, buy electronics, or partake in modern society in most ways you are part of the problem.

Yep that's the point. You want things yet aren't willing to accept that you'll have to give things up, welcome to Western society, and exactly the reasons why it's futile to try and tell people to change'.
Until something catastrophic happens people will continue to do what they want.

 

[Izayoi]

And here we go again, another thread of a bunch of people yelling "We're fucked, no hope left, trump and the gop are bad, we had a good run, everything is for nothing", etc.

Just defeatism at its finest, ignoring literally every other efforts that the rest of the world is taking to fight this stuff and saying that's all invalid by default because of reasons.

Realism is not necessarily defeatism.

 

[nintendoman58]

Realism is not necessarily defeatism.

Then do all the efforts that the rest of the world is making to fight against it mean nothing because of "realism"?

Should they give up all their efforts to move to renewables and develop carbon capture technology since they're apparently destined to fail by your logic?

 

[LordKasual]

I honestly can't tell what the situation is like from GAF's reporting back or even these kinds of reports because of lack of context. I honestly would like to know what the most accurate predictions are for the future. Like, are we all going to seriously fucking die from heat and increased ultraviolet radiation in fifty years and we might as well not even bother, or are we going to be faced with survivable albeit terrible economical and sociological disasters in areas and countries ill-equipped to handle the droughts and rising sea levels? And what can I as an individual do about it in the meantime, if anything? Having those basic questions answered would be nice, even if the answer is "Yes, you're going to die from global warming."

Sun is not going to kill us. Heat is not going to kill us. Storms are probably not going to kill us, at least not anymore than they already do, unless they just get significantly worse.

The real problem is humanity. The world can currently support its population...sort of. But when the climate changes, something that has been constant throughout our entire history, the habitable areas will change. People will become displaced when their homes are no longer habitable. Where are they going to go? Likely somewhere that other humans don't want them. Especially not when their now scarcer resources will be required to sustain them.

People get hungry, people get agitated, all the xenophobic fears, racism, and extremism is going to be dialed up to 11 as the price of life plummets under a world that can no longer support our GLOBAL way of life, and people become more self-centered and less socially open then we're allowed to be in this age. It's not really about the climate. Humans will survive in pretty much any climate the earth gives us.


....barring some drastic atmospheric change that makes the air unbreathable....which actually is a REAL possible apocalypse scenario that has happened before and could be indirectly triggered by a runaway greenhouse effect.