-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Avatar: The Last Airbender (Netflix) | Rottenwatch
Revolutionary
Member
Watched the first episode. I haven't watched the original show in at least a decade but I don't remember the writing being this hamfisted. Some of the acting is VERY bad as well - Aang's acting in particular is almost Phantom Menace Anakin levels of bad
Won't be watching any further but I am now interested in rewatching the original, so... thanks Netflix?
Won't be watching any further but I am now interested in rewatching the original, so... thanks Netflix?
Hardensoul
Member
I just watch the cartoon on Netflix! It’s definitely for kids.
I happened to like the live action, there is more happening. The towns more detailed, populated and livelier than the cartoon.
The action and special effects aren’t bad. But are good enough.
Hardensoul
Member
Re watch the first couple episode of the cartoon, it’s not what you remembered as a kid. The show was definitely written for kids. The live action dialogue is definitely better! It also doesn’t feel like they were bumbling along like the cartoon!
Hardensoul
Member
I just watch the cartoon last week, the dialogue is much better in the live action.Ugh could they find worse actors??
The world is more detailed in the live action. Towns are more populated and even the fights have a bigger scale with more characters in the scenes.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
The main actors are crap though. Like they are reading the lines from a book in the 3rd grade.
The cartoon was 100000 x better voice acted than this.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
You see hardcore fans turn on anything new.
Hardensoul
Member
Dialogue and acting are 2 different things!! And you are exaggerating with acting in the cartoon. It’s different!
The live action is going for a different tone. By showing the massacre of the Wind Temple. Which was not in the cartoon. It’s taking a more serious more grounded tone. Cartoon is more light hearted.
I’m going to miss the humor of the cartoon.
I like the live action adaptation so far. The world is more detailed, more populated and livelier.
Last edited:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I really liked the series! Finale was everything I hoped for!
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
That's what my best friend said a couple hours ago.
And it wasn't hard at all .. they kept true to the lore and inspiration... They combined some elements of different episodes and made it work. I'm glad I didn't re-watch the toon before watching this. It stands on its own merits.
sendit
Member
That was a low bar to being with.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Why do they keep trying to remake this. The original Nickelodeon cartoon was once in a lifetime perfect storm lightning in a bottle that can never be replicated
It's the same as how they keep adding more horrible entries to The Terminator even though no one asked for them, they always are box office bombs, and Arnold is literally 76 years old
It's the same as how they keep adding more horrible entries to The Terminator even though no one asked for them, they always are box office bombs, and Arnold is literally 76 years old
Last edited:
Revolutionary
Member
It's a Nickelodeon show. Of course it's for kids lol
But despite being for children, I don't remember it being particularly hamfisted either.
I rewatched the first episode of the anime to refresh my memory, and at no point does Aang exposit his character traits for the audience:
It seems no one in the writers room knows the golden rule of writing: show, don't tell.
Also:
Ribi
Member
ftfy.
I'm put off by the dialogue, they dont seem human and take the viewer as an idiot
sendit
Member
I find watching most kid orientated shows to be like that.
Yoboman
Member
Watched 4 eps, alwys meant to watch the anime but never got to it
Its okay so far... The worst part is the kid actors really have some odd line delivery at times.
And is Aang this pretentious in the anime? It feels like they just cut out any dialogue or personality he might have had that isn't related to being the avatar
The action is pretty well done and the CG holds up most of the time
Its okay so far... The worst part is the kid actors really have some odd line delivery at times.
And is Aang this pretentious in the anime? It feels like they just cut out any dialogue or personality he might have had that isn't related to being the avatar
The action is pretty well done and the CG holds up most of the time
March Climber
Member
IIRC Season 1 Aang from the animated show, for the most of it, was still a child in mentality and felt that everyone should simply get along and have fun. He would even play with the kids in the villages he visited and was sad that most people were trying to fight him, capture him, or kill him. He would also solve most of his problems as peacefully and playfully as possible, fitting the children's cartoon nature of Season 1.
I haven't watched the live action show yet so you'd have to provide a few lines to let me see if it's pretentiousness or if it's simply a kid wanting everyone to get along.
Hardensoul
Member
A screenshot of a line out of context! From a long conversation, Aang has with Monk Gyatso. He was just told he has to leave home. To train other forms as the Avatar.
Last edited:
Revolutionary
Member
???
Do you even understand the criticism that people are having with the writing? Because your two responses have given me the distinct impression that you don't.
Either way, I genuinely don't care. I was curious about the first episode and explained why I didn't like it - The End
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I'm going to watch it again next week. The last 4 episodes are better than the first four.
Hardensoul
Member
I understand the criticism, doesn’t mean I agree with it. That’s part of whole scene/prologue written for the LA! The massacre of the Airbender Temple was never shown in the original show! Which set the tone for the live action series.
I get that it’s not same of the cartoon and fans who want a 1 to 1 remake will disagree with the changes.
I admit I do miss the light hearted moments of Soka, Kitara and Aang from original!
Soodanim
Gold Member
I'm half way through e3, and so far it's... average. I've tried to take it on its own merits, but some observations:
There's an irony to people trying to put down the original for being a kids show when so far this feels like the dumbed down version that lacks any subtlety. The dropped arcs and character growth combined with the way they've chosen to fast forward the story leaves it feeling shallow in places.
I'm going to finish it, it's not a train wreck. So far I don't think the critic average is about right - 6/10 isn't a failure, but there's unavoidable regression so far.
Katara's bending against Zuko in e2 looks about as powerful as throwing a bucket of water. Not offensive at all and there's no way it should have done more than annoy him. As I expected, animation lends itself to this better than CGI ever can. However, Kyoshi's scene was good. Maybe it's just low level bending that looks disappointing.
Sokka's whole story on Kyoshi Island was wank. No time for character growth, just straight to Suki getting heart bubbles and revealing her face immediately (because it's TV and viewers can't be trusted to recognise her?), so no surprise if she shows up later on without make up at Serpent's Pass.
Zhao isn't driven and fearsome, just scheming. Much less interesting so far.
Azula this early and quite shit. Already unstable and jealous, but it looks like Ozai at least pits them against each other so I guess there's more to see here. I'm scared of how Ty Lee is going to be portrayed based on the initial appearance. Seeing the 3 of them together reminded me of cosplay, not casting.
Iroh might have extra early screen time, but I can't help but think it's going to be countered by it being cut from later stories.
I can't see anyone but Abed in The Mechanist. Maybe that's my own issue, or maybe it's because he's not right for the role.
Credit for the way they condensed Omashu, Jet, and the Mechanist into one. That could have been a lot worse in terms of covering key things while cutting run time.
Sokka's whole story on Kyoshi Island was wank. No time for character growth, just straight to Suki getting heart bubbles and revealing her face immediately (because it's TV and viewers can't be trusted to recognise her?), so no surprise if she shows up later on without make up at Serpent's Pass.
Zhao isn't driven and fearsome, just scheming. Much less interesting so far.
Azula this early and quite shit. Already unstable and jealous, but it looks like Ozai at least pits them against each other so I guess there's more to see here. I'm scared of how Ty Lee is going to be portrayed based on the initial appearance. Seeing the 3 of them together reminded me of cosplay, not casting.
Iroh might have extra early screen time, but I can't help but think it's going to be countered by it being cut from later stories.
I can't see anyone but Abed in The Mechanist. Maybe that's my own issue, or maybe it's because he's not right for the role.
Credit for the way they condensed Omashu, Jet, and the Mechanist into one. That could have been a lot worse in terms of covering key things while cutting run time.
There's an irony to people trying to put down the original for being a kids show when so far this feels like the dumbed down version that lacks any subtlety. The dropped arcs and character growth combined with the way they've chosen to fast forward the story leaves it feeling shallow in places.
I'm going to finish it, it's not a train wreck. So far I don't think the critic average is about right - 6/10 isn't a failure, but there's unavoidable regression so far.
I liked it overall despite the very fast pace and poor dialogue. The kid actors have to juggle lack of experience with what is also a physically demanding role so I’m okay with that. Would have been better if the quality between the adult actors and kids were similar but not shying away from violence more than made up for it.
I was probably most disappointed by how they made Koh the Face Stealer less sinister and evil as a spirit.
I was probably most disappointed by how they made Koh the Face Stealer less sinister and evil as a spirit.
Neolombax
Member
It was a fun watch, definitely interested in season 2/book two. The Nickelodeon show still is the better version. Zuko's arc was way better realized in this version compared to Aang's. I quite like Netflix's portrayal of Zuko and Iroh. The only gripe I had with Netflix's version of bending is that they use it like magic, while the Nickelodeon's version of bending is more of an extension of martial arts (except for Netlfix Zuko's fire-bending. It was very physical and I loved it). Much of the heart of the series was lost in Netlfix's version. Aang's innocence, Katara's motherly attitude, and Sokka's goofiness, all gone.
Last edited:
Hardensoul
Member
I agree with your take! A little of bit of the bolded was there but definitely needed more! That’s some thing I really missed from the animation.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I just finished episode 4 and I am pleasantly surprised so far. I love the original and this isn't turning out too bad. A lot of bad dialogue and real hit or miss acting, but the beats and tone is hitting really good.
If ATLA is a 10/10, Korra an 8 out of 10 (averaged from 8/10 Book 1, 4/10 Book 2, 10/10 Book 3, 8/10 Book 4), then this so far is a 7/10.
If ATLA is a 10/10, Korra an 8 out of 10 (averaged from 8/10 Book 1, 4/10 Book 2, 10/10 Book 3, 8/10 Book 4), then this so far is a 7/10.
Last edited:
Soodanim
Gold Member
Finished the rest of the episodes.
They have good effects animators*, but terrible human animators. There are several spots where obviously bad, almost early 2000s level animation showed through. It stands out like a sore thumb. *Except for the water, but that improves when more ice gets involved
Some of the directorial choices were bad. There's a part where Aang faces away from the group and rants, but when it cuts to his face he acts as if he's doing it to someone's face. Maybe it was an editing thing, but it stood out.
There's a part where Sokka gets hit and it cuts to Katara shouting his name, and I can't believe that was the best take they could get out of the actress.
I think an extra episode or two would have helped it all feel less rushed.
On a positive note, Zuko is far and away the best casting in the show. At one point he shouts from off screen and it sounds like Dante Basco himself did some ADR. Plus the martial arts were spot on. The show leans harder into him being a dick to his men, but it also leans harder into the payoff of that, which was a really good scene.
I wonder how the show would have been different had the creators not left.
BBC review:
www.bbc.com
They have good effects animators*, but terrible human animators. There are several spots where obviously bad, almost early 2000s level animation showed through. It stands out like a sore thumb. *Except for the water, but that improves when more ice gets involved
Some of the directorial choices were bad. There's a part where Aang faces away from the group and rants, but when it cuts to his face he acts as if he's doing it to someone's face. Maybe it was an editing thing, but it stood out.
There's a part where Sokka gets hit and it cuts to Katara shouting his name, and I can't believe that was the best take they could get out of the actress.
I didn't like that Katara became a master on her own. Not even a single lesson from Pakku, just straight to top tier bender off camera with nothing to learn from the actual master. There's only so much you can cut out from a story before things stop making sense.
I'm still not convinced by Azula. She doesn't portray any of her usual characteristics. Plus the changes to their family dynamic don't really make sense. She's supposed to be this genius that can strategise in secret but she didn't realise Ozai was playing her several times? Azula isn't a remembered villain for being needy and bratty, she's a sadistic and cruel genius perfectionist prodigy that is on top of things, and part of her story is watching her unravel.
The big climax in the water felt so slow to the point where I was tempted to skip ahead. I just went back to the original to see if I was misremembering, and I wasn't. They took care of business much more quickly. Then spent so much time on a big CGI Godzilla battle that could have been put to better use showing that Katara trained with Pakku. The adaptation that condensed 20 episodes into 8 ends up being the one wasting time.
I'm still not convinced by Azula. She doesn't portray any of her usual characteristics. Plus the changes to their family dynamic don't really make sense. She's supposed to be this genius that can strategise in secret but she didn't realise Ozai was playing her several times? Azula isn't a remembered villain for being needy and bratty, she's a sadistic and cruel genius perfectionist prodigy that is on top of things, and part of her story is watching her unravel.
The big climax in the water felt so slow to the point where I was tempted to skip ahead. I just went back to the original to see if I was misremembering, and I wasn't. They took care of business much more quickly. Then spent so much time on a big CGI Godzilla battle that could have been put to better use showing that Katara trained with Pakku. The adaptation that condensed 20 episodes into 8 ends up being the one wasting time.
I think an extra episode or two would have helped it all feel less rushed.
On a positive note, Zuko is far and away the best casting in the show. At one point he shouts from off screen and it sounds like Dante Basco himself did some ADR. Plus the martial arts were spot on. The show leans harder into him being a dick to his men, but it also leans harder into the payoff of that, which was a really good scene.
I wonder how the show would have been different had the creators not left.
BBC review:
Avatar: The Last Airbender: Why the much-hyped new Netflix show is the worst of remake culture
Netflix's new live-action take on massively popular animation Avatar: The Last Airbender exploits fans' nostalgia, rather than working on its own terms.
www.bbc.com
Last edited:
Lambogenie
Member
Just seen a couple episodes, and while it is good, I can't help but just want to watch the animated show again. I never liked Katara in the animated version, and I think I dislike her here even more. I get the actress is young, but she just looks so disinterested from what I saw. An otherwise pleasant face devoid of much expression, so any time she speaks I feel like she's just reading instead.
Sokka is pretty good but feels at times trying to 1-1 the animation, whereas Zuko feels a lot more like the actor trying to add little bits of his own take to it (again, only 2 episodes, so it's still fairly same to the original).
The bending effects have been decent. Biggest let down were the human CG, where Aang goes bananas after returning to the temple.
While I feel Aang's actor looks the part, his acting is a bit hokey. Alas, he is just a kid. Is his voice breaking, or he just has god-awful vocal fry? Suki also has vocal fry, and that shit is just annoying to listen to...
Sokka is pretty good but feels at times trying to 1-1 the animation, whereas Zuko feels a lot more like the actor trying to add little bits of his own take to it (again, only 2 episodes, so it's still fairly same to the original).
The bending effects have been decent. Biggest let down were the human CG, where Aang goes bananas after returning to the temple.
While I feel Aang's actor looks the part, his acting is a bit hokey. Alas, he is just a kid. Is his voice breaking, or he just has god-awful vocal fry? Suki also has vocal fry, and that shit is just annoying to listen to...
But this is one reason to watch. She's really pretty. Would wife. Daniel-san's ex-GF/Suki's mum is very pretty too
Slothbeing1209
Member
So just finished the show. Quite disappointed. 4/10. Only good things about this show is CGI.
Haven't watched the original so I think I'll check it after this.
Want to ask, can Aang use all 4 elements bender at some point? He only uses air bender for the whole show.
Haven't watched the original so I think I'll check it after this.
Want to ask, can Aang use all 4 elements bender at some point? He only uses air bender for the whole show.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Yes. He eventually learns the other 3. Katara, And two others teach him.
Soodanim
Gold Member
At the end of Book One in the animated show, Aang has picked up some water along the way from Katara and a scroll.
That is just one of the things the original did better.
March Climber
Member
Finished it today. Everyone keeps calling this a Netflix show, but that’s not what I see here. It has the feeling of a live action Nickelodeon show or movie if they had their own version of Power Rangers or something, but with a budget dialed up to a modern day level.
Pluses and Minuses:
+Added ep 1 intro fight scenes were nice
+Zuko was treated with the best of care from the writers, directors, coreographers, etc. Not only was he given the best scenes, but he literally elevated other characters, like Aang, who shared scenes with him(all characters except Katara).
+Fire nation scenes and characters were the better part of the show(aside from Azula).
+Mostly good setting and costume work.
+Good stuntwork
+It has most of the big moments that it should. Some are remixed but they work for the most part.
+Fire effects were great, air effects were good enough, water and ice effects(at a higher than novice level) look good.
-Earth effects need more work. They kept obscuring or cutting away from earth the most. assumedly because it would look the worst budget-wise if held on screen for too long. However I would rather take PS4-level rock graphics if that means better editing and direction.
-Everyone, especially Aang, giving motivational and Superhero speeches after any minor moment just to hit you over the head with the fact that the Avatar needs to be the Superman of this world. After Aang has told us 50 times that him and everyone around him needs to be better and do better, I hope they relax a bit with the speeches next season and give him a more colorful personality.
-I normally am not the best judge of what a great actor is, so I tend to be more forgiving of mediocre acting, but even someone like me can tell that Katara and Azula have Spy-kids level acting. When Katara’s moments came in episodes 7 and 8, it was a flatline of emotion.
-Azula did slightly better than Katara’s actress, but the issue with her is that she looks too young and acts more like a brat in most of her scenes. For anyone who has never seen the animated show, watching Azula on screen used to put viewers on edge. She was damn near Joker level in terms of her planmaking, cunningness, craziness, and simply never knowing when she’d stab her own ally or even family in the back to win during a situation. It wasn’t the lightning that made the viewer fear Azula. It was the fact that she felt literally 3 steps ahead and was masterful at reading any given situation.
-Line rushing/scene rushing. Sokka’s actor is the most guilty of this. Every line of his was delivered at rapid speed, but there were also multiple moments with other characters where the scene was simply not allowed to breathe for a minute. There were times where it felt like they quickly added a line or 3 second scene just to please fans of the original and let them know that it was there. It’s either the fault of the actors or the fault of the director, but probably both.
-It needed 10 episodes for things to breathe and for the show to have slow moments.
-Please hire romance writers. Whoever the writers are understand superhero speeches and action, but they failed 3 times at small romances. Two times with Sokka(both rushed), and one time with Aang(nonexistent). I hate that quite a few writers that write for live action versions of nerdy shows will just try to do this themselves and fall flat. Romance writers can help consult and can make 2 people who are growing feelings in a room together sound like actual human beings talking to each other. They won’t just make them kiss after 60 seconds of interaction like a kid would when playing with barbie and ken dolls.
How to quickly improve S2: Stop with the excess hero speeches, let us get to know Aang’s lighter side a bit more, take Azula and Katara’s actresses to another acting class session, hire romance writers, and use 10 episodes this time to slow the pacing down a bit.
I give this show a C rating.
Hopefully S2’s journey and Toph will help lighten Aang up a bit because I see the potential. I don’t need him to be cartoon level, I just need him to remember that he can be a curious and fun kid when he isn’t fighting.
Pluses and Minuses:
+Added ep 1 intro fight scenes were nice
+Zuko was treated with the best of care from the writers, directors, coreographers, etc. Not only was he given the best scenes, but he literally elevated other characters, like Aang, who shared scenes with him(all characters except Katara).
+Fire nation scenes and characters were the better part of the show(aside from Azula).
+Mostly good setting and costume work.
+Good stuntwork
+It has most of the big moments that it should. Some are remixed but they work for the most part.
+Fire effects were great, air effects were good enough, water and ice effects(at a higher than novice level) look good.
-Earth effects need more work. They kept obscuring or cutting away from earth the most. assumedly because it would look the worst budget-wise if held on screen for too long. However I would rather take PS4-level rock graphics if that means better editing and direction.
-Everyone, especially Aang, giving motivational and Superhero speeches after any minor moment just to hit you over the head with the fact that the Avatar needs to be the Superman of this world. After Aang has told us 50 times that him and everyone around him needs to be better and do better, I hope they relax a bit with the speeches next season and give him a more colorful personality.
-I normally am not the best judge of what a great actor is, so I tend to be more forgiving of mediocre acting, but even someone like me can tell that Katara and Azula have Spy-kids level acting. When Katara’s moments came in episodes 7 and 8, it was a flatline of emotion.
-Azula did slightly better than Katara’s actress, but the issue with her is that she looks too young and acts more like a brat in most of her scenes. For anyone who has never seen the animated show, watching Azula on screen used to put viewers on edge. She was damn near Joker level in terms of her planmaking, cunningness, craziness, and simply never knowing when she’d stab her own ally or even family in the back to win during a situation. It wasn’t the lightning that made the viewer fear Azula. It was the fact that she felt literally 3 steps ahead and was masterful at reading any given situation.
-Line rushing/scene rushing. Sokka’s actor is the most guilty of this. Every line of his was delivered at rapid speed, but there were also multiple moments with other characters where the scene was simply not allowed to breathe for a minute. There were times where it felt like they quickly added a line or 3 second scene just to please fans of the original and let them know that it was there. It’s either the fault of the actors or the fault of the director, but probably both.
-It needed 10 episodes for things to breathe and for the show to have slow moments.
-Please hire romance writers. Whoever the writers are understand superhero speeches and action, but they failed 3 times at small romances. Two times with Sokka(both rushed), and one time with Aang(nonexistent). I hate that quite a few writers that write for live action versions of nerdy shows will just try to do this themselves and fall flat. Romance writers can help consult and can make 2 people who are growing feelings in a room together sound like actual human beings talking to each other. They won’t just make them kiss after 60 seconds of interaction like a kid would when playing with barbie and ken dolls.
How to quickly improve S2: Stop with the excess hero speeches, let us get to know Aang’s lighter side a bit more, take Azula and Katara’s actresses to another acting class session, hire romance writers, and use 10 episodes this time to slow the pacing down a bit.
I give this show a C rating.
Hopefully S2’s journey and Toph will help lighten Aang up a bit because I see the potential. I don’t need him to be cartoon level, I just need him to remember that he can be a curious and fun kid when he isn’t fighting.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
The buck stops with the director here. The actor playing Iroh also seems to line rush as well and it kills me.
Azula and Mai are hilariously badly casted. Especially Mai ... the deadly trio are so pudgy and have the menace and charisma of a wet noodle.
March Climber
Member
Highly agreed but we are stuck with them, so my realistic solution is to get them back into acting classes during the interim and have them work hard at improving.
I was watching this show with a friend (she likes the Young Adult fantasy genre and this caught her eye). She had never watched the cartoon before, so it was good to get her perspective.
She said she enjoyed it but the second half of the season felt like it was moving too fast, especially eps 7 and 8. She laughed from sheer confusion about Yue’s super condensed arc and that random romantic kiss after barely half a conversation.
She even audibly said ‘is Aang about to tell us about his responsibilities again’ during episode 8, which I’ve never seen her remark like that for a show like this because she usually has a soft spot for the YA genre(which is the genre this live action version leans more toward).
That’s when I was absolutely certain this show dropped the ball somewhat.
Like me though, she still sees the potential and appeal to a full 3 season live action story. This season is rough around the edges but it does enough right to be done better for another season.
Last edited:
Insane Metal
Member
I've never watched the anime. Started seeing this yesterday and it was entertaining enough.
Cartoon is ten times better, but with that said, this doesn't suck. It's just no where near as good as the og. Go watch it.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
My eyes also rolled so hard when they changed the Omashu love story into a narrative centred around lesbian lovers.
Still, I suppose I can extend a sliver of forgiveness for this, for their portrayal of Kyoshi and for transforming Suki into an unabashed horndog.
Still, I suppose I can extend a sliver of forgiveness for this, for their portrayal of Kyoshi and for transforming Suki into an unabashed horndog.
Last edited:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I didn't even notice that until my second watch of the show and even then I wasn't sure.