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Avellone is "down" to kickstarting an old school RPG (possibly PS:T 2)
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More Fun To Compute
Member
Mass Effect stealth troll?
I don't see how anyone reading an old school RPG thread could be trolled by that.
Sentenza
Member
You know, if they actually go for sci-fi, I'd like one of the two:
- "classic" cyberpunk, but party based and with a gameplay approach comparable Jagged Alliance for fights and Arcanum for the social stuff. No more lonely wannabe-Deckard characters.
- something very close to the spirit of the original Star Trek show: space frontier, pioneering new weird worlds with your team of specialists.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I would pretty much exclude any sort of *punk setting from that since it is something else that is used very heavily in other places no matter how much it's many fans cry about it being underused. As would be some sort of Star Wars setting or Apoc/Post Apoc.
A sort of knowing retro take on Star Trek or something like the Buck Rogers SSI games would be more like what I was thinking. But more up to date would be even more unique.
CecilRousso
Member
Alpha Protocol 2 as an old school 2d RPG? I would buy that.
Only if it plays like Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake, with dialogue choices.
Im down too. This all makes me so excited.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Combat is fine in PS:T, totally playable if you have some experience with rts and d&d. People who say otherwise are bitter Baldur's Gate fans who hate that many people see PS:T as being the better game.
I don't find combat in PS:T fun, but I don't find any of the combat in Infinity Engine games "fun", rather than serviceable. Nothing to do with being dated though, I just don't think it's particularly engaging on a purely combat level.
I prefer combat that's either entirely tactical, like Fallout 1/2, or something that's more visceral if it's meant to be realtime, like Diablo 2. I was never a huge fan of the "realtime" with pausing thing.
The great thing about PS:T is that you don't always have to fight.
I prefer combat that's either entirely tactical, like Fallout 1/2, or something that's more visceral if it's meant to be realtime, like Diablo 2. I was never a huge fan of the "realtime" with pausing thing.
The great thing about PS:T is that you don't always have to fight.
More Fun To Compute
Member
It takes PS:T a long time for the combat to give you more interesting options than dudes hitting each other until one falls down. But it does have some and some of the level designs and encounters are pretty challenging in a good way.
A really great turn based system can be better although some old school ones are just boring slug fests only they are slower because of turns.
And coming from the angle of adventure games, a really great thing about Planescape: Torment is that you can just fight.
A really great turn based system can be better although some old school ones are just boring slug fests only they are slower because of turns.
And coming from the angle of adventure games, a really great thing about Planescape: Torment is that you can just fight.
I don't find combat in PS:T fun, but I don't find any of the combat in Infinity Engine games "fun", rather than serviceable. Nothing to do with being dated though, I just don't think it's particularly engaging on a purely combat level.
I prefer combat that's either entirely tactical, like Fallout 1/2, or something that's more visceral if it's meant to be realtime, like Diablo 2. I was never a huge fan of the "realtime" with pausing thing.
The great thing about PS:T is that you don't always have to fight.
No one listen to this man, he's crazy. The combay in the Infinity Engine games is great. The battles in PS:T tends to be less memorable and engaging than in BG2, but overall they're pretty much the same and very fun in both games.
The completley tactical aproach usually results in very long battles and the real time "click as fast as you can" combat in Diablo is fine in some games, but I much prefer the IE system. It's the prefect blend of real time and tactics.
StoppedInTracks
Member
I don't find combat in PS:T fun, but I don't find any of the combat in Infinity Engine games "fun", rather than serviceable. Nothing to do with being dated though, I just don't think it's particularly engaging on a purely combat level.
I prefer combat that's either entirely tactical, like Fallout 1/2, or something that's more visceral if it's meant to be realtime, like Diablo 2. I was never a huge fan of the "realtime" with pausing thing.
The great thing about PS:T is that you don't always have to fight.
What is this nonsense.
Best thing about Infinity Engine is the combat engine. It is one of the best combat engines in RPGs ever: turn-based yet fast and furious, tactical yet almost RTS like. The only downside to IE combat is that sometimes it gets too flashy and you can't really tell what is happening on the screen especially with all the multiplying, stealthy, invisible mages silouhettes around.
IE is very visceral especially when Minsc swings his Vorpal blade around
IE combat is the thing that saved Icewind Dale games. That and its OST.
Well, Icewind Dale is basically the hack and slash version of BG2, so combat is prety much all that game had.
More Fun To Compute
Member
What is this nonsense.
Best thing about Infinity Engine is the combat engine. It is one of the best combat engines in RPGs ever: turn-based yet fast and furious, tactical yet almost RTS like. The only downside to IE combat is that sometimes it gets too flashy and you can't really tell what is happening on the screen especially with all the multiplying, stealthy, invisible mages silouhettes around.
IE is very visceral especially when Minsc swings his Vorpal blade around
IE combat is the thing that saved Icewind Dale games. That and its OST.
Well, basically you are saying that infinity engine is better because it being fast and hard to control makes it more challenging. It's easy to turn that around and say that someone prefers Fallout or Temple of Elemental Evil for the same reasons.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I cast fireball, oh wait, I killed half my party. Best turn friendly fire off or never use fireball. Infinity engine is so challenging and tactically interesting.
Almost fell for that one, nice job!
I love the Baldur's Gate and Fallout combat systems equally, for various reasons. But combat is actually what made BG truly great, while Fallout and Torment's stories and dialogue systems could stand on their own, IMO. I sincerely would prefer a combat-free Torment.
I really don't think combat is what made BG truly great. For me, the characters in BG2 were masterfully made, and the game had some of the best dialogues of all the Infinity Engine games.
Yeah, that was an exaggeration. I love BG's characters and dialogue; just meant that combat plays a bigger role in this series than in Fallout and PS:T.
I apologize for my "shitty opinion", but I regret NOTHING!
Fallout for life. Infinity Engine can suck my poo poo!!!
I don't think we've ever agreed before but you have mad respect right now.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I guess one benefit for Obsidian would be that they have their in-house engine and wouldn't have to worry about raised money being put towards those sorts of licensing fees.
I would certainly kickstart anything from them.
I would certainly kickstart anything from them.
Sentenza
Member
Well, unless you are going for cutting edge technology the engine isn't exactly the number one priority in a low budget RPG. Pretty much any decent middleware should be good enough.
Speaking of Obsidian, I would be far more concerned with quality assurance. Not really their strong point so far.
For instance, I should point I'm one of those who really couldn't stand NWN 2 in any way.
I hated that game fiercely, and mostly cause of the horrendous controls and the unbearable camera.
Oh, and I always found it extremely unappealing from a graphic standpoint.
I don't find combat in PS:T fun, but I don't find any of the combat in Infinity Engine games "fun", rather than serviceable. Nothing to do with being dated though, I just don't think it's particularly engaging on a purely combat level.
I prefer combat that's either entirely tactical, like Fallout 1/2, or something that's more visceral if it's meant to be realtime, like Diablo 2. I was never a huge fan of the "realtime" with pausing thing.
The great thing about PS:T is that you don't always have to fight.
Agreed completely with this. Never liked the combat in any Infinity Engine, having to micro manage party members,inventories, spells, attacks etc. was never fun to me at all. Probably why I think PST is infinitely better than Baldurs Gate.
Sentenza
Member
What? Heresy!
If anything the least fun part of Infinity Engine games was how there were too many ways to avoid micromanaging and exploit the system (rogue scouting exploits, etc), but generally speaking managing the party was THE BEST part of those games.
Especially in those "party vs party" fights where making full use of your characters' abilities could really turn a crushing defeat in a flawless victory.
Nice to see he's *actually* considering a project.
The combat in the Baldur's Gate games was definately better, but there was also much more focus on the combat compared to PS:T.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I'd kill for another Vampires: Bloodlines game.
I'm so excited. Holy shit.
It's happening, it's actually happening.
You literally do those things in every RPG. IE actually cuts shorts many of the micromanagement that usually comes with turn-based combats...
Sentenza
Member
Who doesn't? But that's another license they will never be able to afford again, especially considering how CCP are already working at the MMO (I know they would not be directly in competition, but you should try to explain this to those who handle the license).
Imp the Dimp
Member
Well actually, just give me another one of these RPGs, that were popular from 1997-2004. Truly the golden age of RPGs.
Even if I prefer the Vampires license, I can basically do with anything as long as Obsidian sticks to what they do best and release an RPG reminiscent of the golden age with tons of different ways to solve conflicts and shit.
IblisGinjo
Member
Actually Battletech: Crescent Hawk's Inception would be a good crpg remake. Starting out in the academy where you basically train up your character with classes as too how good you will be in hand-to-hand combat, mech piloting, repair, medical ability ..etc, then recruiting survivors(Leadership abilities), the Mech gladiator arena, and forming the Crescent Hawks.....Good stuff.
lol CCP owns the company that owns the license. They bought White Wolf a few years ago.
Felix Lighter
Member
I really enjoy real time combat with pausing. I love micromanaging every attack and every spell. I play back the encounter in my mind without the pausing and it's like a perfectly choreographed fight. That being said, I would love if the controls where more responsive and the path finding was improved. I mentioned it earlier in the thread, I would be blown away by infinity engine style combat with controls as precise as StarCraft 2.
Aww, can't they share? Changeling: The Lost has some potential, the old Black Isle people seem to love weird settings.
I hope something wonderful comes from this.
Or don't suck with fireball. Just because the game gives you a "I suck at this" setting doesn't mean the game isn't tactically interesting.
Or don't suck with fireball. Just because the game gives you a "I suck at this" setting doesn't mean the game isn't tactically interesting.
You can't be serious...
charlequin
Banned
I guess, but ultimately if your goal is to succeed on a narrative level, every component needs to play into that.
PS:T is pretty much the epitome of what a licensed game should be at its very best: it takes a property that's already excellent and unique in its native format, blends it into a new form that's suitable to a different medium, and crafts a stellar work that is greater than the sum of all of its parts but shows the positive influence of each of its underlying components in a clear and appealing fashion. It's also unabashedly the biggest narrative success of the RPG genre.
Baldur's Gate 2 is, I think, widely held to be a superior game overall these days, but its narrative is far weaker and the setting is a big part of why.
The problem with the Infinity Engine games (and part of why I wouldn't want to see this hypothetical game reuse an existing P&P system) is that they take tabletop systems that are already not quite balanced for the sort of black-box combat a CRPG involves, then break them in a huge number of ways by moving away from the basic turn-based system that these versions of D&D actually rely on.
It's canned, actually.
Err, CCP own the license.
cartman414
Member
This. The clickfest approach is nothing more than a means to an end. Visceral is a very generous term to describe combat in those games.
Sentenza
Member
No, it's not. Not yet, at least.
http://www.vg247.com/2012/02/04/ccp...mmitment-to-making-world-of-darkness-awesome/
Yeah, I know, as they bought White Wolf.Err, CCP own the license.
But still, try to convince them that handling the license to someone else wouldn't be competition... Exactly, that was my point.
Especially considering how they are declaring direct inspiration from Bloodlines: http://www.vg247.com/2012/01/17/world-of-darkness-inspired-by-pc-classic-bloodlines/
More Fun To Compute
Member
So you think the way fireball worked in these games with friendly fire on was great because it was challenging to micro?
One of the great things about PS: T was the detail in which everything was described; the places and the people. Even some random commoner was described in vivid detail, like in a book. There's no way today's 3D graphics can translate PS: T's characters into 3D models and facial animations (Ravel, for example, I'd much rather read how she talks than watch in crappy cutscenes). If there's to be a sequel it better be text-heavy for communication of details.
Of course, I don't want a direct sequel.
Of course, I don't want a direct sequel.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Exactly. That is the power of text over image. For an example, it is impossible to do something like the sensate stones without reading it. Trying to do those with a cutscene would fall so short it would be laughable.
Sentenza
Member
Actually yes, looking for the right moment to use AoE spells with friendly fire on was part of the fun.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Or you could just use the spells and weapons that didn't suck and not have to manually stop the other party members chasing things over the map into the area of effect.