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Balancing clocks for max power draw is a different animal than variable clock throttling

Ar¢tos

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If the PS5 can run at max performance during intense gaming what is the point of saying that it has variable clocks? If it only downclocks on the dashboard or during a movie for all intents and purposes its fixed clocks right? Comparisons always pit XSX 12TF to PS5 10 TF. There will never be a time where the PS5 won't have max clocks during games correct?



Does this mean MS made a mistake choosing fixed clocks with XSX?
Why does everything has to be labeled "better" or "worse", upgrade or downgrade?
Somehow it seems words like sidegrade or alternative were lost in time.
 

ToadMan

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There will never be a time where the PS5 won't have max clocks during games correct?



Does this mean MS made a mistake choosing fixed clocks with XSX?
For the bold part, this tweet is addressing that. The choice is with the developers - and they make that choice based on their desired performance. They optimise for power consumption - if they allow the power consumption to rise above the SoC budget they can expect the system to downclock. If they're happy with that they can let the system manage it for them - if they're not happy they optimise power consumption by reducing the workload. That's what this tweet is referring to.

MS chose fixed clocks because that's traditional for consoles so it's the simplest solution - engineer the console and leave it to developers to predict and code for power consumption/cooling/stability.

The compromise to xsex is a 20% lower clock speed than PS5, which gives them slower speeds on cache access, geometry engine, ROPs and so on. MS will hope having more CUs will allow devs to make up the gap for the slower clock.
 
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Panajev2001a

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This is exactly why PS5 should be considered a 9.2tf box that is capable of reaching up to 10.2tf in certain circumstances
... because it is convenient to cure the wounds of a narrative that dreamed a monster console destroying the competition and has some Xbox fans running around either minimising the other’s advantages, making up performance and memory multipliers, quite disingenuously processing information... or a mix of all three? :rolleyes:...
 
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Panajev2001a

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Why does everything has to be labeled "better" or "worse", upgrade or downgrade?
Somehow it seems words like sidegrade or alternative were lost in time.
Because it is a part of the usual specs war and there is a portion of a fan base that bought the POWER marketing angle Xbox always pushed from its original model and that can process only clear, absolute, dominating specs wins over the enemy/competition. After a confusing generation with Xbox One having a clear sizeable performance disadvantage they argued against as much as possible early on (hidden dGPU, inventors of DirectX, balance, 200+ GB/s of bandwidth thanks to last minute ESRAM tweaks, etc...) there was a breath of fresh air with the X1X that had an equally large performance gap over PS4 Pro.

They expected the same if not better in terms of clear specs victory over PS5 and got less than that (gap went from 40% to about 18% GPU wise, same RAM amount, single digits performance gap on the CPU side and virtualisation tax on top, etc...) and some losses too (SSD I/O, GPU clockspeed and thus rasterisation speed / geometry processing / etc...).

The latter is what is dragging some kicking and and screaming in short troll posts or walls of text (yeah, guilty of walks of text too from time to time too 🤭)about SFS enabling 2-3x performance multipliers, inventing bottlenecks only on PS5’s side, possibly dreaming about hidden HW megatons that will make the gap wider and wider, harp on how 18% is surely the minimum gap but thanks to the variable clocks scarecrow it is maybe 30-50% or more or whatever, etc...
 
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Kagey K

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I am very interested in seeing the real world application of this.


It could be fun times.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Yup RAM also, efficiency, tools, API, VRS,Mesh Shaders>Primitive shaders.

:LOL: at just throwing tool and api and efficiency at the wall as if Sony were know to have issues with their side of any of that (their tools were decent if not good in the PS3 days too and they actually won many developers praise in the PS4 days over the Xbox ones, their API’s also being more efficient, but sure... it adds keywords..).
 

FranXico

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Unsurpringly, lots of infamously disingenuous posters purposely misreading what the guy said.
Another day, another console war thread.

Same post pattern:
- "variable clocks mean aggressive throttling": "he's admitting the PS5 is shit!!"
- skip the last part of the tweet where he makes it clear that the PS5 does not control the clock the same way. Introduce mockery instead. "The PS5 features an animal! LOLOLOLOL"
- add a little "I told you so!", maybe with a little "Sony GAF" on the side.
- conclude with "This will be interesting", "fun days ahead", etc., etc.
 
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Panajev2001a

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"If you want the maximum performance for your PS5, we suggest putting it in your freezer for highest clock frequenzy while gaming".

Newest reports: PS5 runs 30 FPS in Spain, while 180 FPS in Canada during Winter"
Well, at least you dropped the facade completely and are now openly trolling taking a disingenuous view of the OP’s content since the meaning of the tweet has clearly been stated by the author himself and many others in the thread too.
 

Panajev2001a

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I am very interested in seeing the real world application of this.


It could be fun times.
What real world applications? Back to the room temperature based performance troll some have started in this thread? Back to the “it is really 9 TFLOPS only occasionally reaching in the 10’s range” or the evergreen “they implemented this solution only after getting wind of MS’s 12 TFLOPS plan”... I am getting lost in what dreamy narrative is being pushed today.
 
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The_Mike

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Well, at least you dropped the facade completely and are now openly trolling taking a disingenuous view of the OP’s content since the meaning of the tweet has clearly been stated by the author himself and many others in the thread too.
Well looking at my post history it's no secret that I like to make a more lighthearted fun aproach to topics. And it's true, I haven't read the whole thread, only OP and a few more posts.

Maybe OP should change the post so we don't have to dig through the whole topic.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Well looking at my post history it's no secret that I like to make a more lighthearted fun aproach to topics. And it's true, I haven't read the whole thread, only OP and a few more posts.

Maybe OP should change the post so we don't have to dig through the whole topic.
The OP is fine, it is quite clear what he is saying even if you had not heard the topic of PS5 clocks before ... as if it had not been debated tons and tons of times, that is perhaps the bit disingenuous sounding part.

Anyways, thanks for replying and being honest.
 
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Bill O'Rights

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Folks,


We've been through the thread and issued a couple of warnings. No reply bans or bans have been issued as of this time. However, they will be forthcoming after this time. Obviously it's not everyone in the thread - there are a couple of new people who have had courtesy warnings, and the usual crowd with multiple existing warnings for console warring, or antagonistic derails. This is the line in the sand going forward. Do not be surprised or feel affronted, if you are removed from the topic for persistently dragging it down into a quagmire. If you're unable to discuss the technical points (which is what this thread should be about), without making this into another console war thread then you probably shouldn't be here anyway.


The tweet has a traditional definition of what variable clock rate is, and then says is it completely different to balancing clocks against power draw. I will update the title to reflect this.
 

geordiemp

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Folks,


We've been through the thread and issued a couple of warnings. No reply bans or bans have been issued as of this time. However, they will be forthcoming after this time. Obviously it's not everyone in the thread - there are a couple of new people who have had courtesy warnings, and the usual crowd with multiple existing warnings for console warring, or antagonistic derails. This is the line in the sand going forward. Do not be surprised or feel affronted, if you are removed from the topic for persistently dragging it down into a quagmire. If you're unable to discuss the technical points (which is what this thread should be about), without making this into another console war thread then you probably shouldn't be here anyway.


The tweet has a traditional definition of what variable clock rate is, and then says is it completely different to balancing clocks against power draw. I will update the title to reflect this.
Some pC have so much cooling the game limitation outside of virus code is the PSU rating.

The tweet is suggesting the cps5 ontrol kicks in on the pSU max power limit, it would of been nice to discuss that and we just got rushed with 9 TF, sustained and fridges from trolls and nobody made any thoughtful input or even tried to. Most did not even read the tweet, other half dont even understand difference between smartshift and freqency control. I dont think they even want to.

Frustrating man and drags your initial intentions down to just laugh gifs.
 
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On Demand

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You people have got to be kidding me. Harping on false narratives after the PS5 clocks were already explained plenty of times. What's worse is the tweet doesn't say what some think it does. The first part is talking about how it works with traditional variable clocks like PC uses. The last sentence is talking about the PS5

"100% predictable balancing clocks for max power draw is a different animal"

Stop being obtuse.
 

Dory16

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Well, everyone does now except Microsoft.

Apple, Nvidia, AMD they are just controled differently using thermals, predicting thermals based on impeding workload can be more efficient and also quicker.

Sony are doing it, more will follow if its performant,



You realise that smart short is different to controlling in advance on workload ratrher than PID of temperature.

I dont know why I bother, you keep spreading the FUD

Smartshift is a different tech (Cpu to GPU power) to the ps5 power control (dropping frequency in advance on edge case workloads a bit like programs used to heat GPUs), there are 2 different things,
The only automated power control mechanism the ps5 has is smartshift. That new mystification that you introduced (because if it sounds complex it will make your favourite toy look better) would have to be implemented manually by each developer. How can a machine know in advance what workload is incoming in lines of code it hasn’t read? Only triggers in the code could enable that and that would be a developer’s nightmare especially for optimisation.
 

geordiemp

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The only automated power control mechanism the ps5 has is smartshift. That new mystification that you introduced (because if it sounds complex it will make your favourite toy look better) would have to be implemented manually by each developer. How can a machine know in advance what workload is incoming in lines of code it hasn’t read? Only triggers in the code could enable that and that would be a developer’s nightmare especially for optimisation.
No.

Ps5 has automatic downclocking on workload (Cerny presentation, also go read Eurogamer) and smartshift (CPU to GPU power shift). Both are hardware and invisible.

This is not disputed, the facts are in Cernys presentation.

The dev unit can be made to set CPU / GPU up certain way for debug purposes but not in retail units, thats whats confusing you as well. Giving devs tools to find poor applications (COD menu screen) is a good thing.
 

Mr Moose

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The only automated power control mechanism the ps5 has is smartshift. That new mystification that you introduced (because if it sounds complex it will make your favourite toy look better) would have to be implemented manually by each developer. How can a machine know in advance what workload is incoming in lines of code it hasn’t read? Only triggers in the code could enable that and that would be a developer’s nightmare especially for optimisation.
"Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."
 
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Dory16

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Ps5 has higher clocks, do you know what that does other than texels ?



Let me show you, now its your turn to show

The fact that you need to use a 3rd party engine demo to justify Sony’s architectural choices when at least 15 ps5 games have been revealed (most of them running at 30fps) is not a great look, bud. That engine will run on everything and probably better on XSX and PC. You’re not proving anything about variable clocks with that.
 

Three

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Oh man, if only AMD managed to put this magical "thermals don't matter anymore" technology in their desktop CPUs & GPUs as well, maybe Nvidia wouldn't wipe the floor with them. But I guess they're just that good friends with Sony, they'd rather tank their company than make use of it. #GoodGalAMD

And what's heat density anyway? Sounds spooky. Then again, thermals don't matter anyway because they "design for power". Why didn't anyone think of this before!

I guess we'll never find out. 🤷‍♂️
They've put it in their future APUs already. What you don't get though is that this is in a way about safely clocking a component in an APU in a smart way that does not overclock something that isn't being used.
 

Dontero

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so, instead of cooling, it’s based on power usage/budget.
Which makes no fucking sense to anyone who follows tech and watched that presentation.

Unless Cerny wants to use those PS5 as superservers where you need to know how much energy is used by 50 000 PS5 in warehouse because difference between 2GW and 20GW is difference between fire and explosion.
 
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jimbojim

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so, instead of cooling, it’s based on power usage/budget.
I think you missed this part of the interview deliberately which is related to Jaguar

It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores. However, this doesn't sound like a boost solution, but rather performance profiles similar to what we've seen on Nintendo Switch. "Regarding locked profiles, we support those on our dev kits, it can be helpful not to have variable clocks when optimising. Released PS5 games always get boosted frequencies so that they can take advantage of the additional power," explains Cerny.
 

Clear

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People really need to stop mixing Teraflop counts that are the exclusive province of the GPU with power/clockspeed budgeting that affects both CPU and GPU asymmetrically.

The reality is that at no point should both CPU and GPU both be occupied to the max, especially when the i/o mechanisms to feed the GPU pipe to maximum occupancy have been offloaded from the CPU and onto custom hardware.

As both the CPU and GPU cores are not saturated, the power draw to/heat emitted from the Apu as a whole stays below the expected maximums, allowing additional voltage to upclock one part or the other.

Basically its about dynamically detecting power/thermal headroom and deploying that additional performance as and when required.
 

geordiemp

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The fact that you need to use a 3rd party engine demo to justify Sony’s architectural choices when at least 15 ps5 games have been revealed (most of them running at 30fps) is not a great look, bud. That engine will run on everything and probably better on XSX and PC. You’re not proving anything about variable clocks with that.
The next gen only ps5 games shown were native 4K30 with RT, the cross gen simpler rendering games like destiny are 4k60 on both.

Ass creed with be 4k30 on both. Thats all we have to go on so far confirmed.

You are setting yourself up for disapointment if you think there is magic extra power :messenger_beaming: .

All jaguar / HDD CAPABLE games will walk 4k60 on both machines.

I am sure halo will be 4k60, as it has to run on xb1s, go figure. Your point ?
 
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Dory16

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The next gen only ps5 games shown were native 4K30 with RT, the cross gen simpler rendering games like destiny are 4k60 on both.

Ass creed with be 4k30 on both. Thats all we have to go on so far confirmed.

You are setting yourself up for disapointment if you think there is magic extra power :messenger_beaming: .

All jaguar / HDD CAPABLE games will walk 4k60 on both machines.

I am sure halo will be 4k60, as it has to run on xb1s, go figure. Your point ?
Nope. You're either misinformed or you have amnesia.
Dirt 5: 4k60 with 120fps mode on XSX (no info about that mode on ps5)
The Ascent, The medium, Scorn, Halo Infinite: aLl announced to be 4k60 on XSX
60 fps is bascally what Spencer is defining this generation by in every interview so being in denial is futile at this point, but suit yourself.
Not saying that variable clocks make it impossible to reach 60fps (Godfall is 4k60) but the fact that NONE of the best PS5 first party games seen so far aim for it is troubling.
 
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How did ANYONE take away anything about thermal throttling from this tweet? He is literally saying the variable clocks everyone is used to isnt the same thing as what the PS5 has, going as far as to call it a "different animal". . . He is saying it doesn't thermally throttle but as usual... people with an agenda magically lose the ability to READ or compare what he said to what Cerny said and understand they said the same thing with this guy clarifying because people didnt understand it the first time (people with an agenda pretended not to understand anyway). No downclocking in hot rooms CONFIRMED., Predictable per-situation clocks CONFIRMED.
Leaving performance on the table for fear of someone in the Arctic having a slightly better experience than someone in Cameroon CONFIRMED.
 

geordiemp

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Nope. You're either misinformed or you have amnesia.
Dirt 5: 4k60 with 120fps mode on XSX (no infor about that mode on ps5)
The Ascent, The medium, Scorn, Halo Infinite: aLl announced to be 4k60 on XSX
60 fps is bascally what Spencer is defining this generation by in every interview so being in denial is futile at this point, but suit yourself.
Not saying that variable clocks make it impossible to reach 60fps (Godfall is 4k60) but the fact that NONE of the best PS5 first party games seen so far aim for it is troubling.
I quoted 2 cross platform games, destiny 4k60 and valhalla 4k30.

You do understand the difference and cannot compare different games, why does AC valhalla run at 4k30 but destiny run at 4k60 ? Have you ever thought about why ?

I am sure tetris will be 4k120 on both consoles .....:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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geordiemp

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I'll bet it would be from 1080-1440p in 120fps
Could also be a VR mode which needs minimum 90

Dirt have a marketing deal with MS so we wont find out for a while, same with Sony marketing deals.

Also anyone bringing racing games performance to compare with open world stuff is ....I have no words for the stupidity. Racing games have always been easier to render, always on everything.
 
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Dory16

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I quoted 2 cross platform games, destiny 4k60 and valhalla 4k30.

You do understand the difference and cannot compare different games, why does AC valhalla run at 4k30 but destiny run at 4k60 ? Have you ever thought about why ?
Are we still speaking about variable clocks architecture? Because you've moved the goalpost so much even you can't find it anymore.
Ubisoft said MINIMUM 30 fps on XSX, 30 fps is not ruled out.
I won't speak about Destiny. That game is several years old and has nothing to do with next generation. Gears 5 will have a 120fps mode, so what's your point?
Digital Foundry made very clear that there were reports of devs throtlling the PS5 CPU to guarantee the max GPU clock rate and some of your co-soldiers on this forum rushed to spin and muddy the waters just like you are doing now. But the reveal doesn't lie. 95 % of the games shown ran at 30 fps and it was not because of the youtube compression. Sony never denied it.
 

geordiemp

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Are we still speaking about variable clocks architecture? Because you've moved the goalpost so much even you can't find it anymore.
Ubisoft said MINIMUM 30 fps on XSX, 30 fps is not ruled out.
I won't speak about Destiny. That game is several years old and has nothing to do with next generation. Gears 5 will have a 120fps mode, so what's your point?
Digital Foundry made very clear that there were reports of devs throtlling the PS5 CPU to guarantee the max GPU clock rate and some of your co-soldiers on this forum rushed to spin and muddy the waters just like you are doing now. But the reveal doesn't lie. 95 % of the games shown ran at 30 fps and it was not because of the youtube compression. Sony never denied it.
And you think 20 % less rasterisation, 20 % more texel fill, 20 % less culling and registers, 20 % more RT performance and you will magically get double the performance 30 to 60 FPS.


4k60 games like destiny, with the same 5 tired enemies with same animations, same routines yeah its easy. Last of us 2 will run 4k60 on ps5 easily, so what ?

I dont want that for next gen thanks, some only for next gen lots of enemies and scene complexity pls that could not hope to run on ps4 or xb1.

If any game can run on jaguar, then who gives a shit, its last gen.
 
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Dontero

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Nope. You're either misinformed or you have amnesia.
Dirt 5: 4k60 with 120fps mode on XSX (no info about that mode on ps5)
The Ascent, The medium, Scorn, Halo Infinite: aLl announced to be 4k60 on XSX
60 fps is bascally what Spencer is defining this generation by in every interview so being in denial is futile at this point, but suit yourself.
Oh sweet summerchild that thinks 60fps will be standard.
If 60fps could be standard then MS could mandate it in their certification just how they did with 720p@30fps with 2xMSAA on x360 for a good while after launch.

Fact is that most of people don't give a shit about framerate and they are perfectly willing to play games even at 26fps not even locked 30fps. Most of people also don't have 4k and won't have for a good while

Which means most of developers would focus to create best graphics at lowest possible resolution that makes sense.

So 1440p @ 30fps will probably be standard, not 4k and 60fps.
 
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geordiemp

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Oh sweet summerchild that thinks 60fps will be standard.
If 60fps could be standard then MS could mandate it in their certification just how they did with 720p@30fps with 2xMSAA on x360 for a good while after launch.

Fact is that most of people don't give a shit about framerate and they are perfectly willing to play games even at 26fps not even locked 30fps. Most of people also don't have 4k and won't have for a good while

Which means most of developers would focus to create best graphics at lowest possible resolution that makes sense.

So 1440p @ 30fps will probably be standard, not 4k and 60fps.
All Ps5 only games shown ran 4k30 with Ray tracing, and will likely have a 60 FPS mode with temporal or less RT. I expect XSX will be similar.

All cross gen games will be 4k60 on both except high density open world stuff (AC Valhalla).

We will see if hellblade, which showed at 24 FPS XSX "target cinematic", will be 60 and keep same visuals and enemy / screen density, then Dory can claim victory. I doubt it, lets wait and see.

Nothing has been shown so far to say otherwise. Nothing.
 
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Dory16

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And you think 20 % less rasterisation, 20 % more texel fill, 20 % less culling and registers, 20 % more RT performance and you will magically get double the performance 30 to 60 FPS.


4k60 games like destiny, with the same 5 tired enemies with same animations, same routines yeah its easy. Last of us 2 will run 4k60 on ps5 easily, so what ?

I dont want that for next gen thanks, some only for next gen lots of enemies and scene complexity pls that could not hope to run on ps4 or xb1.

If any game can run on jaguar, then who gives a shit, its last gen.
I see, so now it's the games fault if the beautiful "a rising tide lifts all boats" variable clocks (to quote Cerny) are giving us 30 fps next gen games. Mike Morales has too many enemies on screen and so does Sackboy, therefore it runs at dynamic 1500p.
I've seen much better Sony Defense warriors. You need to call for backup, you're out of your depth.
 

Dory16

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Oh sweet summerchild that thinks 60fps will be standard.
If 60fps could be standard then MS could mandate it in their certification just how they did with 720p@30fps with 2xMSAA on x360 for a good while after launch.

Fact is that most of people don't give a shit about framerate and they are perfectly willing to play games even at 26fps not even locked 30fps. Most of people also don't have 4k and won't have for a good while

Which means most of developers would focus to create best graphics at lowest possible resolution that makes sense.

So 1440p @ 30fps will probably be standard, not 4k and 60fps.
Way to lower the bar buddy. At least that way it's sure your favourite console will meet it.
I have native 4k60 fps games on Xbox One X right now, why would anybody need new consoles to play at the standard of 1440p @ 30fps?
Some of you don't even try to make sense.
 

geordiemp

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Way to lower the bar buddy. At least that way it's sure your favourite console will meet it.
I have native 4k60 fps games on Xbox One X right now, why would anybody need new consoles to play at the standard of 1440p @ 30fps?
Some of you don't even try to make sense.
At least you removed the sony defense warrior, try to be more civil.

No games were shown at 144030 on either console. 4k30 native with ray tracing game A is not going to be 4k60 with ray tracing on XSX, that would need > 20 TF.

If you want to compare, it has to be the same game, thats a fact. We have valhalla and destiny so far, thats it.

You can blab all you want about a racing game and tetris at 240 fps, nobody cares, its irrelevant.

You also cannot compare different genres, open world high density vs racing game.
 
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Dontero

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All Ps5 only games shown ran 4k30 with Ray tracing, and will likely have a 60 FPS mode with temporal or less RT. I expect XSX will be similar.
All cross gen games will be 4k60 on both except high density open world stuff (AC Valhalla).
We will see if hellblade, which showed at 24 FPS XSX "target cinematic", will be 60 and keep same visuals and enemy / screen density, then Dory can claim victory. I doubt it, lets wait and see.
Nothing has been shown so far to say otherwise. Nothing.
I am not talking about exclusives i am talking about 95% of other games.

I have native 4k60 fps games on Xbox One X right now
The only reason you have 4k currently is because there are stronger consoles playing old games. Much like i can play Quake 3 on 8k@120FPS.

When PS5 and SEX releases there won't be stronger consoles that could play games at high resolution because that will be the standard. So when graphics will go up most of power will be used on updated graphics rather than chasing 4k and especially 60fps.

If lockhart is true then this could change. We might have 4TF generation and both PS5 and SEX will work like XoneX or PSpro aka playing same damn 4TF games just with different resolutions and framerates.

Which is why i hope it is not true but considering latest rumors it is probably true which means next gen will be 4TF gen not 10TF like everyone assumed.

No games were shown at 144030 on either console. 4k30 native with ray tracing game A is not going to be 4k60 with ray tracing on XSX, that would need > 20 TF.
I wouldn't also believe early tech demos and "cinematic trailers".
Just because someone says "4K" it doesn't mean it is not 1440p checkboard.
Just because someone says 60fps it doesn't meant it is 40fps with unlocked framerate that rarely goes to 60fps if you look at sky.
 
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Dory16

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At least you removed the sony defense warrior, try to be more civil.

No games were shown at 144030 on either console. 4k30 native with ray tracing game A is not going to be 4k60 with ray tracing on XSX, that would need > 20 TF.

If you want to compare, it has to be the same game, thats a fact. We have valhalla and destiny so far, thats it.

You can blab all you want about a racing game and tetris at 240 fps, nobody cares, its irrelevant.

You also cannot compare different genres, open world high density vs racing game.

We already have way more new 4k60 games announced on XSX than on PS5 and that's before the XSX has even had a 1st party game reveal. You can dig your head in the sand, Digital Foundry doesn't and that's why we know the fact I've just stated. They won't help you in the future either.
The argument you can make in favour of the PS5 is maybe the gaming experience (we would still have to wait for games to prove it) but certainly not the power. Phil Spencer rubbed his palms when he saw the PS5 reveal.
 
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geordiemp

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We already have way more new 4k60 games onnounced on XSX than on PS5 and that's before the XSX has even had a 1st party game reveal. You can dig your head in the sand, Digital Foundry doesn't and that's why we know the fact I've just stated. They won't help you in the future either.
The argument you can make in favour of the PS5 is maybe the gaming experience (we would still have to wait for games to prove it) but certainly not the power. Phil Spencer rubbed his palms when he saw the PS5 reveal.
I agree on first part, (the rest is a fantasy in your head quite amusing) but with a small caveat :.

We already have way more cross generation 4k60 games announced on XSX than on PS5

Say thankyou to gamepass. Enjoy.

I will get an XSX, I have a xb1, my son plays with his mates on playstation and live, I still dont want too much cross gen stuff.

Do you not get tired of destiny with the same 5 enemies with similar animations and AI to fight ?

What about 20 different enemies all doing different things rather than bullet sponges.

Jaguar please die, and all games compatible with it.
 
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Dory16

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I will correct that for you.

We already have way more cross generation 4k60 games announced on XSX than on PS5

Say thankyou to gamepass. Enjoy.
Scorn and the Medium aren't cross gen but don't worry, I already know. They don't have as many enemies on screen as Oddworld and Kena, obviously.
If a game is 4k60 on XSX it's because it's not complex enough. If it's dynamic 1500p like Sackboy or 4k30 like Returnal, it's because it's a TRUE next gen complex game that cannot be done any other way.

You have passionately embraced the conclusion that the PS5 is the ultimate gaming machine (for a reason that I ignore but that's not hard to guess, fanboys tend to have the same motives) and you're trolling away from there. Hence the importance of an impartial gaming press. You're making the case for DF with every post.
 

geordiemp

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Scorn and the Medium aren't cross gen but don't worry, I already know. They don't have as many enemies on screen as Oddworld and Kena, obviously.
If a game is 4k60 on XSX it's because it's not complex enough. If it's dynamic 1500p like Sackboy or 4k30 like Returnal, it's because it's a TRUE next gen complex game that cannot be done any other way.

You have passionately embraced the conclusion that the PS5 is the ultimate gaming machine (for a reason that I ignore but that's not hard to guess, fanboys tend to have the same motives) and you're trolling away from there. Hence the importance of an impartial gaming press. You're making the case for DF with every post.
You realise the TF pwoer difference at most is 2160p vs 1986p at same frame rate. You are delusional.

Double frame rate is 2 x power.

Your logic about power difference is different games / god knows.
 
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jimbojim

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Digital Foundry made very clear that there were reports of devs throtlling the PS5 CPU to guarantee the max GPU clock rate and some of your co-soldiers on this forum rushed to spin and muddy the waters just like you are doing now. But the reveal doesn't lie. 95 % of the games shown ran at 30 fps and it was not because of the youtube compression. Sony never denied it.
It is Jaguar related about throtling. Read few posts above.
 
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MastaKiiLA

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Variable clocks and load balancing seem more like methods of keeping the cooling needs low. Since computing power isn't always running at max, being able to adjust the clock, and shift around the workload is a great option for laptops, as you can ensure that the cooling required is always exactly what is needed, and thus your power consumption should also be right in the sweet spot as well. I assume this is related to the loud fans on the PS4, which was a thing for me. It shouldn't matter to the user, as the system will be tested at high ambient temps to ensure that the cooling system works. Unless your room is a 40C oven (in which case you're better off buying an aircon instead of a console), then the only difference from person to person is how hard the fan will end up working for any particular game.

It's not like my laptop where I regularly run games at high settings, which are made for beefier desktops. Depending on what surface I have the laptop on, I might actually make it overheat and crash Windows. That won't be a problem with the PS5, as the games will be coded for that hardware, and the cooling system will have a tolerance that allows for even warm apartments in tropical regions.
 
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Dory16

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You realise the TF pwoer difference at most is 2160p vs 1986p at same frame rate. You are delusional.

Double frame rate is 2 x power.

Your logic about power difference is different games / god knows.
Your point is that Mike Morales could run at unstable 45 fps and was intentionally capped at 30 fps by Insomniac to keep people from having nausea? Ok you win the argument then. The PS5 might actually be more more powerful system of the 2.
 

Yoshi

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The simple question is: Why would you throttle for power usage? I can see precisely the following options:
1. Because your power brick does not support higher wattage
2. Because you want to reduce the environmental impact of your system
3. Because you want to reduce cost for the user associated with the amount of electricity used
4. Because you want to reduce the heat on the system

Of those, I cannot believe (1) is the issue and (2) & (3) would be very surprising, so I think it is likely to be (4) in which case it does depend on the outside temperatures on whether the approach is effective. So if your motivation is (4), there are only two options: (a) it works under all reasonable outside temperatures, in which case the performance is worse than necessary under most circumstances or (b) it restricts the usage of the system.

I'd be interested in alternatives to my options (1)-(4), but I can see none.
 

geordiemp

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Your point is that Mike Morales could run at unstable 45 fps and was intentionally capped at 30 fps by Insomniac to keep people from having nausea? Ok you win the argument then. The PS5 might actually be more more powerful system of the 2.
What on earth are you going on about, you are arguing like my ex wife making stuff up I never said. just to start an argument.

All AAA games next gen will use dymamic scaling, so either 30 or 60 FPS and variable resolution when needed. Or options for both is likely

I never said Ps5 was more powerful than XSX, I expect them to be within 10 % of each other (my opinion) and nobody will notice on the same games. Which is what has been said so far (Valhalla and Destiny) and all we know todate. But it sounds about right.,......................to me.

XSX will have better texel TF, Ps5 better triangle / raster / cache speeds, and over a frame the average difference will be boring is my expectation.

Both are great console designs, getting there by different means. Thats technically interesting to me as I am a nerd lol.

I expect future DF comparisons to come down to look, XSX has 2 more puddles showing reflections. It will be funny.
 
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