wow, didn't watch the video but someone put the developer preview on a machine used for someone's work? I would be fucking pissed if someone did that to me. That thing was buggy as shit, only VM that one.
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Ballmer: Windows 8 biggest thing since Win 95'
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Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Something that has absolutely no benefit for me as a user, rather something that was done to benefit Microsoft as a service provider
Seems Cloud services work and integrate with Windows 7 just fine to me.
Something that again, has no benefit to me as a desktop PC user.
Again, not something that has any benefit to me in the slightest.
Something I, as a user, neither needed or wanted.
For a large segment of those that dislike Windows 7, it IS change just for the sake of it.
As someone who uses OSX as his main OS, no thanks. I prefer Windows 7 to OSX, even the latest version on my new Retina MBP. Mac's do stupid shit I just can't fathom. Like having a blank desktop (no icons pop up on it, even removable HDD's etc) as the default setting. But at least there's an easy option to expand windows to full screen now....
Someone beat me, but yeah, Mac.
Uploading and downloading are sort of different.
I'm sick of Microsoft forcing Metro down my throat, I'm not clicking an "Explorer" icon or pressing Windows + D to get to the desktop, and I'm certainly not going to create a scheduled task so that my computer automatically boots up to the desktop at startup! That's ridiculous! Metro is a silly functionality that should be tacked-on, not part of the core OS. That's the best way to implement UIs and we all know it!
You, as a user, are not the only user. Just like the move from DOS to Windows wasn't needed or necessary for some.
There really is no relation between Win7->Win8 and DOS->Windows. Windows supplemented and enhanced DOS, and Windows was regarded very highly (Windows 386 and on).
As far as I can see 8 supplements and enhances 7. Everything that 7 can do 8 can do but better (definition of supplements and enhances) as the entirety of the 7 desktop experience is in 8 aside from the Start Button UI element.
There are things Metro can't do that the start menu could. The desktop experience of Windows 7 revolves around the Start menu, which doesn't exist in Win8.
This is not progress
I understand a lot of people are fine with a simplified tablet UI for a launcher. That is great, but at least be honest with what it is. Very little of Metro is conducive to a desktop environment. I hope you like scrolling horizontally. Luckily the search works in a similar manner to Win7, but they still have some hoops, your search is filtered by type, whether you want it that way or not.
This is purely a strategy to get a larger user base for Metro to drive development in MS's new walled garden.
No arguments there. Definitely something that needs resolving. Definitely not something that is impossible to do in the new environment though.
ReBurn
Gold Member
There are things Metro can't do that the start menu could. The desktop experience of Windows 7 revolves around the Start menu, which doesn't exist in Win8.
This is not progress
That's also not the typical user's start menu. If they would nest one level down it would be cleaner, but the "developer" user would have icons for the apps they use most on the main dashboard, on the desktop, or pinned to the task bar. In my use this view is the exception when I need a lesser-used application. I don't see this for the things I use every day.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
There are things Metro can't do that the start menu could. The desktop experience of Windows 7 revolves around the Start menu, which doesn't exist in Win8.
This is not progress
I understand a lot of people are fine with a simplified tablet UI for a launcher. That is great, but at least be honest with what it is. Very little of Metro is conducive to a desktop environment. I hope you like scrolling horizontally. Luckily the search works in a similar manner to Win7, but they still have some hoops, your search is filtered by type, whether you want it that way or not.
This is purely a strategy to get a larger user base for Metro to drive development in MS's new walled garden.
Why are you showing the All Apps page? How often do you actually use that? That seems a bit disingenuous on your part since you won't often see that page. If you're using All Apps to find a shortcut then that's the equivalent of twirling down nested menus in the All Programs in the old Start menu. That was hardly a fast or elegant way of launching programs either.
Probably a couple of times a day. Win7 hierarchies are elegant compared to Metro's one level. Win7 doesn't have a very nice way to separate out these on searches. I have multiple image libraries installed, and to launch the right API reference I need to recurse.
A hierarchial display is definitely much faster than one large list. This is great fun over RDP, a full screen scroll of every application installed.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Then I can see why you don't like it. Why aren't the things you use frequently pinned on the main screen into groups with headings? You're doing it the most difficult way possible and then blaming the OS for being difficult.
Because a couple of times a day doesn't warrant me pinning it, I already have a bunch of items pinned, and I'm not always launching the same thing.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Are you running out of space on your Start screen? At some point stuff is off the screen, why can't it be there? It's certainly easier than going to All Apps a couple of times per day.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I don't care what you say but this will always be better on a laptop and desktop
metro maybe better to for tablets but it's terrible for traditional PCs
you can't beat the task bar for efficiency, and speed.
The taskbar is still there. I have 17 things pinned to it with lots of room to spare. That's the stuff I use daily. The rest is pinned to the Metro screen in groups making it easy to find. I can literally launch 98% of everything I ever use in approx 1 second or less.
Damon Bennet
Member
I don't care what you say but this will always be better on a laptop and desktop
metro maybe better to for tablets but it's terrible for traditional PCs
you can't beat the task bar for efficiency, and speed.
there you have 18 small icons.
here:
you have what, >30 tiles that are large (thus easily clickable) clean and alive and feature information about whats going on inside the program without even needing to open that.
its speedy, efficient and easy for everyone to use and organize.
please elaborate why its terrible to not litter your taskbar with dozens of apps
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
As a person who has to access my PC regularly via RDP over a 3G connection, your solution fails entirely. (due to the Full screen refresh the Start Screen triggers)
I prefer small icons, that I can quickly access, with one click.
With that, I'd have to press the start button, go to not-Metro, and finally look/click.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
nah more like
Ballmer: "Apple has owned my ass for 10+ years now, and Bill won't stop laughing at me!"
So I should pin all my apps to the start screen? I don't think you are getting it, I could use a utility today and not use it again in a couple of months. I don't want it cluttering anything, I just want to be able to find it when I need it. I appreciate your effort, but I'm not looking for a workaround, my workaround is to use explorer in the Start Menu tree. I was simply illustrating several things that Win8 wasn't supplementing or enhancing from Win7 in one screenshot. I can workaround a lot of the Win8 issues, but it is disingenuous to say Win8 improves on everything in Win7. Metro does not have the full functionality of the Start Menu.
That is certainly something that can and will be fixed. MS has already designed WinRT to where only application screen segments that need to be redrawn are actually redrawn.
Open Source
Banned
I've always said that Steve Ballmer is Uncanny valley incarnate. Technically, there's nothing un-human about him, but he's still somehow not human.
That's because he's a shapeshifter, like Odo.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I understand what you're saying but you're looking at using the Start screen the same as the Start menu and complaining that your workflow does not translate 1:1. It's not supposed to.
You can't complain about not wanting to clutter your screen and then pointing to the All Apps page as an example to show how cluttered the Start page is. That page is a last resort, it should not be a part of your workflow except on rare occasions.
Yes, you should have all your apps pinned, just put the stuff your rarely use in a group at the end, you'll rarely see it but it'll be easier than slogging through the all apps page that includes the stuff you almost NEVER use like help files and dual 32 and 64 bit versions of apps.
You have valid criticisms about improving search and UAC but I feel you're off base on this.
saltywalrus
Member
Horizontal continuous scrolling is terrible, but MS seems to love it. I can't think of any OS other than Windows 8 or Windows RT that uses horizontal scrolling. Vertical scrolling or horizontal pages would be so much better.
You are not getting it.
Win8 is not Windows 7 + enhancements. Metro does not do some things as well as the Start Menu did.
My workflow is determined by my work. I have to verify the parameters for a call I'm going to do, I have to run Spy to figure out why I'm not getting the message I should. An OS should be designed to help me do that, I shouldn't have to start every task with how should I do this with Metro. I don't have time to customize my development machines to get around different OS's weaknesses.
As someone with a web dev history, it was always thought as a no-no to do horizontal-scrolling templates simply because they're not as typical as vertical ones, and people don't like to scroll vertically. (Not to mention that different browsers and mouses may not focus on the horizontal scroll bar automatically. And if someone re-sizes the window, they'll get scrollbars on both sides.) I guess now that tablets are more common, that's not a huge problem, but it does remain for desktop users.
Why don't you index your references and search for the function names? Or use google. That isn't a Metro suggestion, just a general suggestion.
a mouse wheel or good trackpad gestures is a must imo with windows 8.
Warm Machine
Member
In a year's time when tablets and tablet laptop hybrids are everywhere Windows 8 is going to make a hell of a lot of sense. Until then it is going to seem strange. CES will basically solidify the future and companies will begin playing their hand.
We can't blame Microsoft for trying what Apple is doing and making a mountain of money from. Can you imagine being a shareholder of Microsoft, watching digital marketplaces springing up everywhere while you own the very operating system that enables all of this commerce and not making any money off it yourself?
We can't blame Microsoft for trying what Apple is doing and making a mountain of money from. Can you imagine being a shareholder of Microsoft, watching digital marketplaces springing up everywhere while you own the very operating system that enables all of this commerce and not making any money off it yourself?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
But Metro is never going to make sense on the desktop, it has no place in a desktop OS.
Microsoft should have seperated UI from underlying code long ago and had one operating system with 2 available UI's, one for Desktop, and one for Tablets, both offering the same functionality and application compatibility via different UX's.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
You're right, I'm not a programmer, I'm an artist, I don't know what your workflow is. Maybe you should ask the programmers working on the OS what their workflow on Windows 8 is?
So everyone can make their apps twice?
Metro works fine on the desktop, there is no reason to splinter it.
I don't understand MS's logic of pushing out WP8, Wndows RT Tablets and W8 Ultrabook at the same time.
They essentially target the same audiance. Especially the first two. How can you expect a MS fan to shell out $200-700 for a phone (depends on the contract), another $500 minimal for a RT tablet.
These things should be release in sequence. There is a reason iPhone and iPad are released half year apart.
They essentially target the same audiance. Especially the first two. How can you expect a MS fan to shell out $200-700 for a phone (depends on the contract), another $500 minimal for a RT tablet.
These things should be release in sequence. There is a reason iPhone and iPad are released half year apart.
Haha are you serious? Like...
No.
Just fuck no. Windows 95 was definitely not a failure on any imaginable scale.
OS/2 was a better operating system at the time
ReBurn
Gold Member
I find it hard to think of a bigger corner case. Accessing Windows 2008 RDP desktops over 3G is hardly a speedy experience, at least in my case.
I can't think of a time when I didn't have to customize my development environment to the way I do my work. Windows 7 surely wasn't built around how you do your job. I find that disingenuous. Besides, pinning the things that you need to do to your taskbar or putting shortcuts on your desktop would help with that. If you regularly drill-down into your start menu to do what you need to do, then I don't see how you get anything done.
Warm Machine
Member
The Metro game development kicking and screaming reminds me of when developers had to switch from writing DOS executables to applications that would run under Windows 95. It took about 3 years for the industry to switch over.
hahahahahahahaha
I don't think it really took much longer than could be expected given it involved a whole new way of writing programs, but I'm pretty sure most game devs were pretty happy to not have to use hacky shit like dos4gw and force their players to dick around with their autoexec.bat and config.sys files so that you could even have your cdrom driver loaded. They play games too.
I definitely don't think it was anywhere close to 3 years except for a few holdouts.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Let me guess. You looked at this stupid list:
Windows 3.1 ---> Good
Windows 95 --->Bad
Windows 98 --->Good
Windows ME --->Bad
Windows XP --->Good
Windows Vista ---> Bad
Windows 7 --->Good
Windows 8 --->Bad
Well, the accuracy starts there.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I would have wiped win 7 already, but unfortunately my microphone makes a loud ass buzzing/robot noise when I record (or use skype etc) in win8.
the reason I still use 7. don't know why it does it. otherwise i'd be running 8 as primary.
Devolution
Member
What's up with a bunch of people who design UIs thinking that icons and big blocks that take up too much real estate are necessary on things other than phones and tablets?
I was all for windows 8. But I then installed start8, which made things way better, as it added back a real start menu and made the os automatically boot on the desktop.
And now I realize I don't use metro anymore, and I just use Windows 8 the exact same way I did with Windows 7, minus the good old glass effect that I tend to miss.
I'll see what happens, but there's a chance I might revert back to windows 7. The customer review was perfect for me, the os was good and kept a nice transparency effect. That effect being gone on the final version, I don't appreciate it as much, it feels bland, claustrophobic in a way.
And now I realize I don't use metro anymore, and I just use Windows 8 the exact same way I did with Windows 7, minus the good old glass effect that I tend to miss.
I'll see what happens, but there's a chance I might revert back to windows 7. The customer review was perfect for me, the os was good and kept a nice transparency effect. That effect being gone on the final version, I don't appreciate it as much, it feels bland, claustrophobic in a way.
Well if you know the name of the shortcut/program you are looking for. Why don't you... start typing...
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