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[Nocebo]

Trying to taser an uncooperative suspect is hardly out of line, is it?

Do you know how much getting tased hurts? Would you have been ok with a swift kick to the head as well?

 

[oneHeero]

I wouldnt mind accidently shooting someone, killing them, and say I thought it was a taser and get off with little to no punishment.

Seems like thats whats being argued here. If they let the officer off, I hope there is a new law that lets this apply to everyone.

 

[adamsappel]

Even if the cop was going for his tazer, it shows how poor of a police officer he is. Wouldn't tazering someone while your partner is touching him, shock your fellow officer as well?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Yes it is if he's fucking cuffed. What kind of pussy do you have to be to want to tazer someone who's already restrained and cuffed on the floor? If the guy weren't dead, I'm sure he'd rather have been roughed about a bit than shot with a tazer. Its completely unnecessary. Tazers should ONLY be used when people are out of control and can't be restrained any other way. Not when they're ALREADY RESTRAINED.

He wasn't cuffed, and he was resisting. Which is the reason they had him on the ground and were trying to restrain him. Everyone else was calmly sitting along the wall restrained by plastic handcuffs. The guy who was shot (Grant) was the only one resisting.

And yeah people, lets make the victim out to be an innocent saint and the guy who made protecting us his job out to be a coward and heartless murderer. Nevermind that the victim is a convicted criminal who was out late at night drunk and disorderly and resisting police. Does it mean he deserved to die? No, but as much of a murdering bastard and general piece of shit this cop apparently is, if Grant just acts like normal people should act when being questioned by police, he's alive today.

 

[afternoon delight]

Pick up that can, citizen.

 

[Solideliquid]

Now put it in the trash.

 

[Nolan.]

I only just read this thread and watched the video... thats just disgusitng, but i'm not in the least bit surprised.

 

[BigGreenMat]

So having watched the videos and read the reasonings for the shootings, my conclusion is that the cop may have meant to shoot him. He also may have made an error and wanted to taser him. In the end, regardless of intent he is guilty of voluntary manslaughter. He performed an action meant to inflict harm that resulted in accidental death at least. Now, if it can be proven he had no taser on his person or witness accounts can shed light that he meant to pull his firearm then he should be guilty of second degree murder.

Being a cop can be tough, but so is just being a citizen. If citizens are pilloried for their actions, then cops must be as well. If we make concessions to police the same concessions must be made to the public at large.

I generally find our criminal justice system to be far too harsh on crimes that cause little harm for the sake of the ability to boast that it is 'tough'. I think that this attitude is then given to the enforcers of that system and projected to the public. It is, therefore, somewhat paradoxical to apply it to its own self and therein lies the conflict that results in such heated arguments and strong emotions in cases like this. Where do we start to remedy this. Do we remedy it by excusing the man's actions due to the systems faults? Or do we hold the man to his actions and say the system if faultless? Both of those actions is flawed unless the system and the man change for the better.

 

[John_B]

And yeah people, lets make the victim out to be an innocent saint and the guy who made protecting us his job out to be a coward and heartless murderer. Nevermind that the victim is a convicted criminal who was out late at night drunk and disorderly and resisting police. Does it mean he deserved to die? No, but as much of a murdering bastard and general piece of shit this cop apparently is, if Grant just acts like normal people should act when being questioned by police, he's alive today.

It seemed like the victim was the most calm person there, gesturing with his hands that he wanted no trouble. It can hurt to get wrestled to the ground face down, and if it does, you will naturally resist. It did not seem like the guy tried to make a run for it or anything like that.

Responsibility also applies to a police officer. It's a decision to take out a firearm and it's a decision to fire it, necessary or not, your actions are your responsibility.

 

[Zenith]

Trying to taser an uncooperative suspect is hardly out of line, is it?

In the UK tasers are only meant to be used as alternatives to guns, i.e. when lethal force could be used.

 

[demigod]

He wasn't cuffed, and he was resisting. Which is the reason they had him on the ground and were trying to restrain him. Everyone else was calmly sitting along the wall restrained by plastic handcuffs. The guy who was shot (Grant) was the only one resisting.

And yeah people, lets make the victim out to be an innocent saint and the guy who made protecting us his job out to be a coward and heartless murderer. Nevermind that the victim is a convicted criminal who was out late at night drunk and disorderly and resisting police. Does it mean he deserved to die? No, but as much of a murdering bastard and general piece of shit this cop apparently is, if Grant just acts like normal people should act when being questioned by police, he's alive today.

I didn't see this thread but my friend linked me to the video. Which video are you looking at?!? The guy put his hands up that he wasn't resisting anything, then he was on the floor. There is NO reason why the officer should've shot him. NO excuse if he thought a *gun* was a *taser*. If he was really resisting, that's what the police weapon(whatever it's called) are for. Police should only use their gun if they are being threatened, which they weren't.

Anyone defending this Cop's action should be put in prison along with him.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

He wasn't cuffed, and he was resisting. Which is the reason they had him on the ground and were trying to restrain him. Everyone else was calmly sitting along the wall restrained by plastic handcuffs. The guy who was shot (Grant) was the only one resisting.

And yeah people, lets make the victim out to be an innocent saint and the guy who made protecting us his job out to be a coward and heartless murderer. Nevermind that the victim is a convicted criminal who was out late at night drunk and disorderly and resisting police. Does it mean he deserved to die? No, but as much of a murdering bastard and general piece of shit this cop apparently is, if Grant just acts like normal people should act when being questioned by police, he's alive today.

being a Cop or having a tough job does not excuse BAD decision making. No matter who's at the other end: Gandhi or Bin Laden, YOU FUCKING SHOT and KILLED A CUFFED, UNARMED MAN ON THE FLOOR.

 

[xnipx]

hypothetical situation for anyone defending this poor excuse of a cop...

let's say he did mean to draw his taser, which as can be seen was unnecessary in this situation and he tazes the hell out of mr grant, would u support a police brutality lawsuit given the visual evidence?

 

[Smiling Bandit]

Because in a position of responsibility, he shot a restrained 22 year old man dead. It doesn't happen everyday, it shouldn't, and there should be no message to society that someone can get away with it, and especially no hint that if you're marshall of the law (BART.. I dunno) that you're above the law. No-one is. The moment you point a gun at someone, even before you pull the trigger, you can be and often are responsible for what happens next.

You cannot make an example of an accident. I also doubt that it's a kind of endemic dream of police officers to kill some suspect and get away with it.

I wouldnt mind accidently shooting someone, killing them, and say I thought it was a taser and get off with little to no punishment.

Uh, of course you wouldn't mind because as you said, it was an accident. If you cause harm by accident your punishment should differ vastly from something done on purpose.

let's say he did mean to draw his taser, which as can be seen was unnecessary in this situation and he tazes the hell out of mr grant, would u support a police brutality lawsuit given the visual evidence?

No. If he'd tased the hell out of Mr Grant maybe Mr Grant henceforth would live a less criminal life?

Anyone defending this Cop's action should be put in prison along with him.

This is exactly the mob lynch mentality that almost makes me wish the officer would get away just out of sheer principle.

 

[numble]

I wouldn't mind "accidentally" shooting someone, killing them, and say I thought it was a taser and get off with little to no punishment.

 

[Solideliquid]

No. If he'd tased the hell out of Mr Grant maybe Mr Grant henceforth would live a less criminal life?

.

I can't imagine this is your real stance. You are just baiting further argument, stop it. The man is dead.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

being a Cop or having a tough job does not excuse BAD decision making. No matter who's at the other end: Gandhi or Bin Laden, YOU FUCKING SHOT and KILLED A CUFFED, UNARMED MAN ON THE FLOOR.

Ugh... again, dude wasn't cuffed. Every article I have read states the man was not restrained by any sort of handcuffs and was on the ground because he was resisting. Videos have shown him resisting. When people resist, officers use non lethal force to stop them from resisting. That's what this officer tried to do but pulled out his gun instead of his taser. A tragic, horrible mistake that should cost him his job and his right to ever carry a gun again. But it doesn't make him a cold hearted killer, a coward, or a bully looking to intimidate people.

 

[SUPREME1]

Ugh... again, dude wasn't cuffed. Every article I have read states the man was not restrained by any sort of handcuffs and was on the ground because he was resisting. Videos have shown him resisting. When people resist, officers use non lethal force to stop them from resisting. That's what this officer tried to do but pulled out his gun instead of his taser. A tragic, horrible mistake that should cost him his job and his right to ever carry a gun again. But it doesn't make him a cold hearted killer, a coward, or a bully looking to intimidate people.

Pure sh*t.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Pure sh*t.

So then you subscribe that he deliberately pulled his gun to kill the guy on the ground for really no other reason than to kill him in front of several cops and a ton of witnesses and cameras? How is that more plausible and reasonable than him accidently pulling his gun when he meant to grab his taser?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Pure sh*t.

I know, I know. The more likely/logical conclusion is so less sexy and gratifying than just another cop killing whoever he wants!

 

[BigGreenMat]

Ugh... again, dude wasn't cuffed. Every article I have read states the man was not restrained by any sort of handcuffs and was on the ground because he was resisting. Videos have shown him resisting. When people resist, officers use non lethal force to stop them from resisting. That's what this officer tried to do but pulled out his gun instead of his taser. A tragic, horrible mistake that should cost him his job and his right to ever carry a gun again. But it doesn't make him a cold hearted killer, a coward, or a bully looking to intimidate people.

What is your definition of resisting? Under the law there really isn't a definition of resisting arrest. Anything can be resisting arrest. The officer could be choking you to death to subdue you and your flailing would technically define resisting arrest (this has happened many times) and under your flawed sense of justice and logic constitute correct procedure and application.

Have you ever had someone throw you on the ground with a friend have the two of them jump atop you with one of them digging their knee into your neck as you lay prone and helpless? If you have and quickly put your hands behind your back with no physical response then by all means keep up your argument. I, however, am able to recognize that a man with his hands up being throw to the ground and choked to some degree will respond as such. I mean the whole point of the position the cops put him in was to elicit that response and subdue him.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

So then you subscribe that he deliberately pulled his gun to kill the guy on the ground for really no other reason than to kill him in front of several cops and a ton of witnesses and cameras? How is that more plausible and reasonable than him accidently pulling his gun when he meant to grab his taser?

Yeah, I have to agree with this. There's no way a cop is just going to fire into a guy with all those people around unless he has severe mental issues.

The whole incident is unfortunate, but people are far too quick to jump on a cop for making a mistake. You have to remember that the guy he was dealing with was being intentionally difficult and was forcing an escalation. If the dude plays it cool, LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE, he's probably booked and released a few hours later.

The cop made a terrible mistake, but to say that he intentionally killed a guy in front of a bunch of witnesses is just silly.

 

[Macattk15]

Even if the cop was going for his tazer, it shows how poor of a police officer he is. Wouldn't tazering someone while your partner is touching him, shock your fellow officer as well?

No. The prongs shoot out of the gun and go inside the individual being shot. The shock then goes wherever it wants through the body.

The skin is a very poor conductor of electricity, hence why some people who are struck by lightning actually live. The lightning jolt doesn't fully penetrate their skin ... just travels the fastest path on the surface of the skin it can to get to the ground that the person is standing on.

I don't think Tasers work the way you think. I am no expert but they do not "electrify" the target they are shooting. Most Tasers shoot out like 50,000 volts or something but at VERY low amperage, which is why usually people do not die from being tazed, though I'm sure there have been people who have (or from other complications caused by the muscle contractions).

I guess the electricity that is shot into the person via Taser stays "inside" the person and will not transfer to the surface of the skin where it could transfer to someone touching the victim.

 

[demigod]

This is exactly the mob lynch mentality that almost makes me wish the officer would get away just out of sheer principle.

And you fall in the category that I mentioned.

Ugh... again, dude wasn't cuffed. Every article I have read states the man was not restrained by any sort of handcuffs and was on the ground because he was resisting. Videos have shown him resisting. When people resist, officers use non lethal force to stop them from resisting. That's what this officer tried to do but pulled out his gun instead of his taser. A tragic, horrible mistake that should cost him his job and his right to ever carry a gun again. But it doesn't make him a cold hearted killer, a coward, or a bully looking to intimidate people.

How about I shoot you guys and call it an accident? The dude was on his back, 2 officers were on him. Even if he was resisting, it is NOT hard to cuff someone with 2 guy's on you. Here's what you do. You grab his first hand, cuff it, then move that to his other hand and you'll cuff the other! Now isn't that just amazing? It's like Magic!!!

Oh and thanks for telling me that a taser looks and feels like a gun now! /boggle

Edit : oh lol, who's the idiot that made a taser look exactly like a gun. just saw an image on yahoo.

 

[Marty Chinn]

And you fall in the category that I mentioned.




How about I shoot you guys and call it an accident? The dude was on his back, 2 officers were on him. Even if he was resisting, it is NOT hard to cuff someone with 2 guy's on you. Here's what you do. You grab his first hand, cuff it, then move that to his other hand and you'll cuff the other! Now isn't that just amazing? It's like Magic!!!

Oh and thanks for telling me that a taser looks and feels like a gun now! /boggle

Edit : oh lol, who's the idiot that made a taser look exactly like a gun. just saw an image on yahoo.

Sure, maybe he made the wrong decision. Maybe he didn't. The video that I saw didn't look conclusive of what exactly was going on there since it was so shaky and from a distance. But what I want to know is, do you think he purposely meant to shoot him and to kill him over the possibility that he grabbed his gun thinking he grabbed a taser? I just find it odd that people find the taser scenario so improbable but somehow intentionally wanting to shoot the guy dead in front of everyone is more probable.

 

[DataStream]

There was no reason for him to pull out a gun. His best case scenario would be involuntary manslaughter based off the 'oops i meant to grab a taser' theory.

He best get something, we don't need any riots in the bay. Oakland has enough problems already.

And more importantly he obviously deserves it.

 

[Freshmaker]

So then you subscribe that he deliberately pulled his gun to kill the guy on the ground for really no other reason than to kill him in front of several cops and a ton of witnesses and cameras? How is that more plausible and reasonable than him accidently pulling his gun when he meant to grab his taser?

That's why Taser recommends that you carry the taser on the other side of your belt with the butt pointing forward. So stupid crap like this doesn't happen.

 

[jko]

How about I shoot you guys and call it an accident?

here's a better idea: shoot us while you are surrounded by tens of people watching you as witnesses. if you still think you can get off the hook after that, go ahead.

EDIT: just watched the video again...do you see the cop's face after he shot the man?? he looked completely shocked when he looked at the other officer...as if he was telling himself "oh shit no i didn't..."

now, i'm not defending him killing the guy, but really...i think all this points to it being an accident. and he should be prosecuted as such.

 

[itsinmyveins]

now, i'm not defending him killing the guy, but really...i think all this points to it being an accident. and he should be prosecuted as such.

On top of that, do people here think the guy's not fretting over this on his own? I'm pretty sure he's a lot more torn up over this than anyone in this thread.

 

[DY_nasty]

On top of that, do people here think the guy's not fretting over this on his own? I'm pretty sure he's a lot more torn up over this than anyone in this thread.

So he's the only person thats ever felt bad because he did something wrong? That poor, poor man.

The reason I want this guy to get the book thrown at him is because if this isn't cracked down on all of a sudden more and more cops are going to take their responsibilities less seriously. If they can shoot a guy because of whatever bullshit reason they can think of, and get away it, then whats next? Should all black men just invest in bright orange safety wallets?

And what the fuck is with you guys calling the suspect criminal? IT WAS NEW YEARS MORNING FOR FUCKS SAKE. He was probably just mad that his girlfriend dumped him over a text or some shit, its not like the guy was knocking people over and spitting on babies. Also, if you haven't been arrested before, just take others word for it - its not fucking comfortable being slammed to the floor with your arm twisted into your back. I'm not resisting shit. My body simply isn't that flexible officer.

 

[itsinmyveins]

So he's the only person thats ever felt bad because he did something wrong? That poor, poor man.

The reason I want this guy to get the book thrown at him is because if this isn't cracked down on all of a sudden more and more cops are going to take their responsibilities less seriously. If they can shoot a guy because of whatever bullshit reason they can think of, and get away it, then whats next? Should all black men just invest in bright orange safety wallets?

And what the fuck is with you guys calling the suspect criminal? IT WAS NEW YEARS MORNING FOR FUCKS SAKE. He was probably just mad that his girlfriend dumped him over a text or some shit, its not like the guy was knocking people over and spitting on babies. Also, if you haven't been arrested before, just take others word for it - its not fucking comfortable being slammed to the floor with your arm twisted into your back. I'm not resisting shit. My body simply isn't that flexible officer.

Hold on here one second, I was under the impression that this was an accident, no?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

So he's the only person thats ever felt bad because he did something wrong? That poor, poor man.

The reason I want this guy to get the book thrown at him is because if this isn't cracked down on all of a sudden more and more cops are going to take their responsibilities less seriously. If they can shoot a guy because of whatever bullshit reason they can think of, and get away it, then whats next? Should all black men just invest in bright orange safety wallets?

So punish one guy to the full extent of the law, well beyond what he actually deserves, just to try and deter future people from doing the same, which they may or may not actually do? Hate to break it to you, but GAF is wrong when they imply that every cop is a murdering bastard, just waiting for their chance to put a bullet into someone. There's absolutely 0 logic in assuming that because one cop won't spend the rest of his life in prison for shooting someone, suddenly loads of other cops will want to mimic what he did.

And what the fuck is with you guys calling the suspect criminal? IT WAS NEW YEARS MORNING FOR FUCKS SAKE. He was probably just mad that his girlfriend dumped him over a text or some shit, its not like the guy was knocking people over and spitting on babies. Also, if you haven't been arrested before, just take others word for it - its not fucking comfortable being slammed to the floor with your arm twisted into your back. I'm not resisting shit. My body simply isn't that flexible officer.

He's been to prison before.

 

[DY_nasty]

So punish one guy to the full extent of the law, well beyond what he actually deserves, just to try and deter future people from doing the same, which they may or may not actually do? Hate to break it to you, but GAF is wrong when they imply that every cop is a murdering bastard, just waiting for their chance to put a bullet into someone.

I'm not saying that every cop is garbage. Check my post history in this thread, I've actually defended police in general.

However, I do think its time to make example out of more people in power just to discourage the rampant power abuse that is been going on. I don't even like the idea of a cop being able to get away with such a huge mistake.

 

[itsinmyveins]

He's been to prison before.

How's that relevant though?

 

[itsinmyveins]

I'm not saying that every cop is garbage. Check my post history in this thread, I've actually defended police in general.

However, I do think its time to make example out of more people in power just to discourage the rampant power abuse that is been going on. I don't even like the idea of a cop being able to get away with such a huge mistake.

It's a huge mistake, no doubt, and of course it should be handled like that. But like I said, it seems a lot of people here are assuming that his guy isn't gonna feel bad about this at all and simply is trying to stay outta jail or something. Personally, I'd say having made such a horrible mistake is a far worse punishment than being sent to jail for a bunch of years.

 

[demigod]

here's a better idea: shoot us while you are surrounded by tens of people watching you as witnesses. if you still think you can get off the hook after that, go ahead.

EDIT: just watched the video again...do you see the cop's face after he shot the man?? he looked completely shocked when he looked at the other officer...as if he was telling himself "oh shit no i didn't..."

now, i'm not defending him killing the guy, but really...i think all this points to it being an accident. and he should be prosecuted as such.

I got a better idea, how about cuff the guy who's on his back instead of trying to tase/shoot him. IT"S NOT HARD ya know, especially when someone else is next to help you.

Aww poor officer? Do you think it's fair to the victim's family/friends? He should've thought twice before acting like a fucktard and pulling out a *gun* to tase/shoot. Sorry but I don't buy the story that he *accidently* thought he had a taser gun. Even if he did, he should be put away for at least 10 years in prison so he doesn't *accidently* kill someone else again.

Btw has the officer even gone public to apologize or anything or offer to be put behind bars?

 

[DY_nasty]

It's a huge mistake, no doubt, and of course it should be handled like that. But like I said, it seems a lot of people here are assuming that his guy isn't gonna feel bad about this at all and simply is trying to stay outta jail or something. Personally, I'd say having made such a horrible mistake is a far worse punishment than being sent to jail for a bunch of years.

Dude, little kids feel bad when they spill milk all over the floor - that doesn't mean that they're immune from cleaning that shit up. He feels bad, so that makes it okay? No, fuck that. And since its been going on for so long, we should make an example out of him. So much so, that the next cop that even thinks he's in a similar situation will think twice.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Dude, little kids feel bad when they spill milk all over the floor - that doesn't mean that they're immune from cleaning that shit up. He feels bad, so that makes it okay? No, fuck that. And since its been going on for so long, we should make an example out of him. So much so, that the next cop that even thinks he's in a similar situation will think twice.

Are you really comparing spilling milk as a kid to something that most likely will haunt that guy for the rest of his life? Of course feeling bad doesn't make shit right again, but making an example out of someone because of an accident? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that mob mentality. Rather, the answer isn't making an example out of one guy since that doesn't really adress the problem, which I'm saying either could be based on lack of proper training, education or routines and having the police actually enforcing them. Shortly put; the need higher standards for pretty much everything.

 

[adamsappel]

Thanks for the info, Macattk.

Fine, let's accept that the cop thought he was going for his tazer. He ended up killing a guy with his gun. Just because it is an accident doesn't absolve you of responsibility, nor clear you of punishment. If you speed on a rainy day, you don't get forgiven for a resulting car crash just because you didn't mean to wreck. If you cause the death of someone else, you deserve punishment. And if you are an officer of the law, given great responsibility and public trust, your punishment should reflect the betrayal of that responsibility and trust.

 

[DY_nasty]

Are you really comparing spilling milk as a kid to something that most likely will haunt that guy for the rest of his life? Of course feeling bad doesn't make shit right again, but making an example out of someone because of an accident? Sorry, but I don't subscribe to that mob mentality. Rather, the answer isn't making an example out of one guy since that doesn't really adress the problem, which I'm saying either could be based on lack of proper training, education or routines and having the police actually enforcing them.

I'm not comparing them straight up :lol

I'm saying that ANYONE can feel bad about ANYTHING.

And making examples of people actually does do a pretty decent job for the short term. Prevent riots, instill a little bit of faith in the community, cops work knowing that someone is actually paying attention to how they perform... sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[itsinmyveins]

I'm not comparing them straight up :lol

I'm saying that ANYONE can feel bad about ANYTHING.

And making examples of people actually does do a pretty decent job for the short term. Prevent riots, instill a little bit of faith in the community, cops work knowing that someone is actually paying attention to how they perform... sounds like a good idea to me.

Well, short term isn't really long term, and long term is what counts in the long run, right?

But yes, and I'm not talking about performance reviews either. If an officer carries around a taser on the wrong side or not correctly secured and etc (no matter if it's during an arrest or whether he's just patroling) -- suspend him without pay for a set time and etc. There are a lot of small mistakes that can have huge consequences, so they definitely need to be alert to those kinds of things. Other than that constant checking up on routines, procedures and so on need to be done, of course, to maintain a high standard.

But regarding what punishment this officer should get? I don't know.

 

[DY_nasty]

Well, short term isn't really long term, and long term is what counts in the long run, right?

But yes, and I'm not talking about performance reviews either. If an officer carries around a taser on the wrong side or not correctly secured and etc (no matter if it's during an arrest or whether he's just patroling) -- suspend him without pay for a set time and etc. There are a lot of small mistakes that can have huge consequences, so they definitely need to be alert to those kinds of things. Other than that constant checking up on routines, procedures and so on need to be done, of course, to maintain a high standard.

Oh yeah, I'd love to say standards raised over the next few years as part of long term solution. In the meantime, I'd like to see the book thrown at this guy

Spoiler

like they've been doing to minorities since the US was founded

 

[jko]

Do you think it's fair to the victim's family/friends?

no it's not fair. a lot of things in life isn't. you think it's fair that the cop has to go through all this and then face a possible life sentence because he accidentally shot someone? no it's not.

...he should be put away for at least 10 years in prison so he doesn't *accidently* kill someone else again.

sure, if you think that's a fair punishment...

 

[Combine]

Here is some background information on the officer that they've released:

BART officer lived quiet life before fatal shooting
Jim Doyle, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, January 9, 2009

(01-09) 18:30 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- The BART police officer who shot and killed an unarmed man on a station platform on New Year's Day had lived a quiet, unremarkable life without apparent troubles before videos of the shooting hit the national airwaves.

Johannes Mehserle, 27, resigned from the BART police force Wednesday, avoiding an interview with internal affairs investigators who were trying to obtain his statement about why he shot Oscar Grant as the 22-year-old supermarket worker lay face-down at the Fruitvale Station in Oakland.

Mehserle, who grew up in the city of Napa, was a 2000 graduate of New Technology High School there, and a 2006 graduate of Napa Valley College Criminal Justice Training Center.

Until recently, he lived with his girlfriend in Lafayette. She recently gave birth to their first child.

Mehserle had worked for the BART police for about two years.

According to a family friend, Mehserle's parents have left their home in Napa because of death threats stemming from the BART incident.

Napa County Supervisor Bill Dodd told the Napa Valley Register that he has known the Mehserle family since Johannes Mehserle was a youngster who played basketball for St. John the Baptist Catholic School. Dodd coached the boy on an all-star basketball team that traveled to Minnesota for a tournament.

"Johannes' family was always there at his side cheering him on," Dodd told the newspaper, adding that Johannes was bigger than the other players.

"I called him the gentle giant," Dodd said. "He is a very kind, caring and gentle person."

Dodd described the BART incident as devastating for Johannes and his family. "Both families have suffered," he said. "One has lost a loved one, and Johannes will have to face what happened every day of his life."

Damien Sandoval, program director of the Napa Valley College Criminal Justice Training Center, said Mehserle graduated from the 22-week police academy, which includes instruction on how to use force and when to use weapons such as guns, batons, Tasers and pepper spray.

"As for firearms, we provide 72 hours of training," Sandoval said. "We put the gun in their hand, tell them when and how to use it."

He said Mehserle also would have received additional training from the BART police force.

At the police academy, Mehserle signed a form prohibiting disclosure of information about his transcript or activities there.

"Frankly, I don't remember him," Sandoval said. "I taught him, but don't recall anything about him."

Mehserle attended three different high schools in Napa Valley.

He spent his freshman year at Justin-Siena High School, a Catholic school.

"He was a quiet, good student - top of the class, and no problems," said Steve Meyer, the dean of students. "He was an athlete, a big kid. I think he did track and probably did football."

Meyer said the reason for the student's transfer to a public high school "could have been financial," given the higher cost of private school.

Mehserle spent his sophomore year at Vintage High School.

"He was just kind of hanging in there," said Katy Dunlap, assistant principal at Vintage. "He was taking some college prep classes, but had problems with math. He did all right in science and English. He wasn't a terrible student by any means. He was very average."

Dunlap said that she only had access to Mehserle's transcript, and that any disciplinary problems were too old to retrieve.

Mehserle spent his junior and senior years at New Technology High School, which attracts students interested in the sciences and technology careers as well as students who value small classes.

Howard Mahoney, the school's principal, said Mehserle's teachers no longer work there.

"The two people who did know him just barely knew him and said he was a nice enough student," Mahoney said. "He graduated in good standing and moved on. We really don't know too much about him aside from that.

"We're sorry about this whole incident, and our hearts go out to the families," Mahoney said.

Kind of ironic, the "quiet" and "unremarkable" guy would become something else entirely now.

 

[illuminated1]

just in case anyone didn't get to see the video.

here's a new clear one:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4ba_1231550246

 

[WickedAngel]

On top of that, do people here think the guy's not fretting over this on his own? I'm pretty sure he's a lot more torn up over this than anyone in this thread.

I'm sure that plenty of drunk drivers who have killed innocents in wrecks feel remorse after. That doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

The "resisting" argument doesn't hold any water (Not directed at you, IIMV). Whether or not he was initially resisting is irrelevant; he was subdued at the time of the shooting. Police can't take that kind of action after the fact; if the officer felt that the resistance was a threat, the time to draw his weapon would've been when the young man was still on his feet.

So punish one guy to the full extent of the law, well beyond what he actually deserves, just to try and deter future people from doing the same, which they may or may not actually do? Hate to break it to you, but GAF is wrong when they imply that every cop is a murdering bastard, just waiting for their chance to put a bullet into someone. There's absolutely 0 logic in assuming that because one cop won't spend the rest of his life in prison for shooting someone, suddenly loads of other cops will want to mimic what he did.



He's been to prison before.

If he is found guilty and punished to the full extent of the law, it is not "well beyond what he actually deserves". In fact, it would be exactly what he deserves based on the judgment of a jury of his peers (Which is the exact same treatment that any private citizen would get).

 

[duckroll]

no it's not fair. a lot of things in life isn't. you think it's fair that the cop has to go through all this and then face a possible life sentence because he accidentally shot someone? no it's not.

Yes, life isn't fair, but if it's investigated and made clear that the gun was drawn and fired because he made an error, it doesn't matter if it's accidental at all, there should be a punishment. If a guy driving a car accidentally shifts gears or accelerates instead of braking and runs someone over just because he had a really long day and he was tried, should he be let off the hook because it was just an accident? Let's say he isn't drunk, and he's a great guy, has a nice family, contributes to charity, volunteers are church, liked by everyone at work, etc. No. The fact of the matter is that the only reason he has accesss to a weapon at his hip is because he is a cop, and with that comes a responsiblity not to allow an accident to happen, because he knows it's a deadly weapon. Sure, it sucks to go to jail for an accident, but in this case, it would be fair.

 

[gutter_trash]

from the looks of the video, it looks like a mistake and fuck up.
just like when you accidentally delete a file in your windows browser by accident or when you forget to save you work and closed the application

people may call me cold but I believe it was a mistake, tired mistake, n00b mistake, rookie mistake whatever but looks like a mistake and the officer is going to be haunted by it for long long long time

I don't condone it, I don't condemn it... because it was a mistake, not intentional

 

[PhoenixDark]

I hate fucking cops so fucking much. Only the lowest dregs of society choose to become police officers because they are too fucking stupid to do anything else with their lives. Fuck them all.

Stereotyping an entire group of people makes you look like an idiot. Obviously there are more than a few police who sign up just because they get a kick out of the power trip, but that's not why most people join the force.

 

[gutter_trash]

look at them, they look like rookies, for sure it was a mistake and non-intentional