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[Daft_Cat]

And no, the artist labels it, and you search for it. It's like chefs calling certain meals deconstructions of old dishes. They set out to do it, it's up to the critic to agree they met that. And as art tends to be, it's divisive.

Eh. As far as I'm concerned, unless the work itself is radical or challenging in some fundamental way (i.e not a superhero movie), then it ought to speak for itself. I would think only inexperienced or less talented artists have cause to come out and clarify, label or make excuses for their art. And it's only the pretentious ones that publicly defend themselves by claiming their work to be too far beyond their audience.

It's a questionable attitude, and a really iffy PR move. It makes me less confident in the Justice League film, even in light of the positive shift in direction.

 

[RDreamer]

The cinematography of this film is sooooo good. Based

Fong

shot the heck out of it.

The cinematographer from the last two Game of Thrones episodes is joining on for Justice League, too, so I'm looking forward to that.

 

[Blader]

All you have to do is look at the watchmen. Dr Manhattan has sex with Laurie while working with Veidt. Clark by contrast says fuck the world's problems and hops in the tub, clothes and all, to show he's completely there for her. The tub overflowing represents the cost of him doing this, that he can't just fly around the real world saving her wherever whenever.

But that's exactly what he does, though? Multiple times.

The cinematographer from the last two Game of Thrones episodes is joining on for Justice League, too, so I'm looking forward to that.

You just know this Davos shot was his trial run for Batman.

 

[itwasTuesday]

Well, bought it thanks to T-Mobile Tuesdays and vudu deal. I was thinking about getting the 4k version but apparently vudu only does 4k on lg and Vizio TV apps(I have a Sony), all others you need the Roku 4.

 

[atr0cious]

Eh. As far as I'm concerned - unless the work itself is radical or challenging in some fundamental way (i.e not a superhero movie) - it's generally only inexperienced or less talented artists that have cause to clarify or make excuses for their art. And it's only the pretentious ones that publicly defend themselves by claiming their work to be too far beyond their audience.

It's a questionably attitude, and a really iffy PR move. It makes me less confident in the Justice League film, even in light of the positive shift in direction.

Folks couldn't get over Clark "destroying" Metropolis or killing Zod so what do they know? And how is it not radical? Every other page has another version of not-my-superhero where they talk about getting the characters wrong. Or batman being a "murderer?" Snyder is a pretty learned dude.

 

[Dcube]

Can't wait to get home and watch this tonight. Theatrical cut was disappointing but my real major issues were the editing and pacing. Apparently that's been fixed so I hope to enjoy this quite a bit more.

 

[soqquatto]

this is still not a good movie. feels disjointed at times. I don't mind the tone, the liberties they took with characters, even Martha (well, that's hamfisted) in principle as an idea. it's just a clumsy piece of cinema. but they got a nice Batman out of this.

 

[BlueWord]

Just finished my first viewing. While definitely an improvement on the theatrical release, this is still an exhausting slog of a film with some very questionable plot and casting decisions. It just oozes this kind of misplaced self-importance throughout.

With that said, this definitely represents a step up from Man of Steel, whereas BVS felt like more of the same. I actually feel a lot more positive towards Cavill as Superman after seeing this.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Folks couldn't get over Clark "destroying" Metropolis or killing Zod so what do they know? And how is it not radical? Every other page has another version of not-my-superhero where they talk about getting the characters wrong. Or batman being a murderer?

I think we're talking past each other. I get what you're saying to some extent - I was just objecting to the filmmakers dismissing the harsh critical reception as a result of audiences not liking their heroes deconstructed.

Anyway, to each their own.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

A lot of people will be waiting for the physical release. Deadpool conversation didn't really amp up until the disc release either.

Yeah. I hate this digital first future we've wound up in. It makes sense since they can obviously get the digital stuff out there quicker than producing physical products, but I want the 4k bluray.

 

[atr0cious]

I think we're talking past each other. I get what you're saying to some extent - I was just objecting to the filmmakers dismissing the harsh critical reception as a result of audiences not liking their heroes deconstructed.

You might be arguing for the individual, as the large consensus was that Snyder not only didn't understand the characters, he was an objectivist(lol) who hated them. That is who the Snyders and WB are talking about when they say "they."

 

[Mengy]

But these movies aren't the dour cynical tomes folks claim they are, they are hopeful,

One word I would NEVER use to describe either MoS nor BvS is hopeful. I mean wow, how do you get that out of these films?

A far more appropriate adjective would be cynical, or contemptuous, or even dire.

Look at Civil War by contrast, where it says the powerful will always be right, no matter what steps to them. That's some scary shit, but he called him Stank so who gives a shit right?

That is not what Civil War was saying at all. It wasn’t about powerful always being right, it was about freedom of choice versus giving freedom up for the greater good. I’m not sure you understood the overall theme to CW, but you have seemed to see something in the latest DC movies that isn’t there either, so ……

 

[Dead]

One word I would NEVER use to describe either MoS nor BvS is hopeful. I mean wow, how do you get that out of these films?

A far more appropriate adjective would be cynical, or contemptuous, or even dire.

BvS is absolutely about hope overcoming cynicism. It's the entire crux of the finale.

The tone of the film is very dour and oppressive, it has to be. It can't credibly challenge the idea of hope without trying it's hardest to bury it.

 

[atr0cious]

A far more appropriate adjective would be cynical, or contemptuous, or even dire.

Seems you're describing the real world.

That is not what Civil War was saying at all. It wasn’t about powerful always being right, it was about freedom of choice versus giving freedom up for the greater good. I’m not sure you understood the overall theme to CW, but you have seemed to see something in the latest DC movies that isn’t there either, so ……

If this is all you got out of a movie where a man named America beats his former ally into submission, you probably shouldn't question my reading of the film.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Is Superman still a mopey guy in this cut?

Superman isn't "mopey" in either this movie or Man of Steel. He's the most optimistic character in a world full of people trying to drag him down.

I'm willing to concede that Lois having to retrieve the spear after being the one to throw it away doesn't flow well, but it's an entirely aesthetic complaint, her actions are rational for the weapon that just tried to kill her boyfriend, and calling it a "plot hole" is ridiculous.

That is not what Civil War was saying at all. It wasn’t about powerful always being right, it was about freedom of choice versus giving freedom up for the greater good. I’m not sure you understood the overall theme to CW, but you have seemed to see something in the latest DC movies that isn’t there either, so ……

 

[shoreu]

Superman isn't "mopey" in either this movie or Man of Steel. He's the most optimistic character in a world full of people trying to drag him down.

I'm willing to concede that Lois having to retrieve the spear after being the one to throw it away doesn't flow well, but it's an entirely aesthetic complaint, her actions are rational for the weapon that just tried to kill her boyfriend, and calling it a "plot hole" is ridiculous.

Lol if he's not quipping and smiling he's just mopey. He's totally just not... Acting like a normal person

 

[Jake2by4]

When did superman and everyone else discover that he can't see through lead?

 

[Arnie7]

These guy love it now. Totally changed their opinions.

http://youtu.be/nSI2w1Q_PXk

 

[Lord Virgin]

These guy love it now. Totally changed their opinions.

http://youtu.be/nSI2w1Q_PXk

From the comments:

In the BvS Ultimate Edition, Lex is prisoner AC231940.
Action Comics #23, 1940: Lex's first appearance in comics

Heh, wonder how many more references/easter eggs there are. Snyders CBM movies are normally full of them. Can't find the picture now, but one I liked:

Lex: ''Nobody was there to save me from my dads fist and abominations''
Picture of Superman standing between Lex and Doomsday trying to punch the latter.

 

[cr0w]

When did superman and everyone else discover that he can't see through lead?

Think about this as if you're a scientist.

In Man of Steel, Superman shows and proves that he can see through solid objects when he's being interrogated. He tells Hamilton what's in his pocket when he's in the other room.

Now assume Lex finds this out. Then Lex takes what is scientifically proved with x-rays, in that they can't penetrate lead. He extrapolates that, if Clark's x-ray vision works the same, it has the same limitations. He lines it with lead as a precaution, assuming Supes' abilities line up with known science.

Lex is a brilliant scientist, it's not hard to believe he could figure this out.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I could swear I saw a

Spoiler

Comedian killing Kennedy

Easter Egg. But it could be nothing.

 

[IconGrist]

I could swear I saw a

Spoiler

Comedian killing Kennedy

Easter Egg. But it could be nothing.

There's 3 Watchmen references I've seen so far.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

There's 3 Watchmen references I've seen so far.

Could you list them ?

 

[IconGrist]

Could you list them ?

Spoiler

The End is Nigh on the billboard the police pass by in Gotham.
"Who watches the watchmen" at the end of an article Clark is reading about Batman.
"Who watches the watchmen" written in spanish on the wall when Batman is holding Superman over his shoulder just before he dumps him.

 

[MisterHero]

Superman isn't "mopey" in either this movie or Man of Steel. He's the most optimistic character in a world full of people trying to drag him down.

He doesn't even see the world as dragging him down. He wants to help everyone but he can't be everywherr at once. He even has this problem as Clark with deciding what stories to write about. Now he has Batman and Wondy, he doesn't have to agonize in saving people as much.

Can't wait to see UC!

 

[MisterHero]

Could you list them ?

There's the burning Superman effigy, if we're talking movie Watchmen

 

[Zakalwe]

In the UK if it matters. Where's the best place to get this digitally? Would love to watch it this evening.

Oh, crap... Read OP... July ;_;

 

[Plywood]

The cinematographer from the last two Game of Thrones episodes is joining on for Justice League, too, so I'm looking forward to that.

This is the best news yet for JL.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I mean... it's better. Unquestionably so. If you're going to watch this movie, this is the one to see.

-It feels like a complete film with more natural transitions from scene to scene.
-Lex's scheme feels more like a scheme and less like some random bullshit he can claim to pulling the strings on.
-Clark being atleast more proactive in his investigating etc.
-Lois' plot feels like it atleast kinda goes somewhere.

But...

-it still feels so fucking oppressive, with Superman purely reacting to others rather than making any real stance of his own. And you're still never really glad to see him on screen because you just don't give that much of a shit about him.
-It's still kinda irrelevant if Lois figures this whole thing out or not before meeting Lex, because clearly he needs her to get ahold of Superman either way.
-The 'Knightmare' sequence still comes out of nowhere and is so poorly contextualized with Flash's cameo.
-Batman is still the fucking Punisher (hell, moreso in some instances).
-The Africa sequence still doesn't make sense.
-the hilariously dumb shit is no less dumb (Bruce being lifted out of the cave by fucking bats, the Martha thing, the terrible Justice League tease, the peach tea bit etc.)

It's still not great but it atleast feels somewhat complete. The problems are less technical and still just problematic from a pure tone and intent point-of-view.

 

[cr0w]

You're aware he wasn't actually physically lifted out of the cave by bats, right? As evidenced by the line IMMEDIATELY after that says, "In the dream..." There also wasn't a giant bat creature actually in his mother's crypt.

 

[Shaanyboi]

You're aware he wasn't actually physically lifted out of the cave by bats, right? As evidenced by the line IMMEDIATELY after that says, "In the dream..." There also wasn't a giant bat creature actually in his mother's crypt.

Because why the fuck was that opening dream necessary at all? Because you otherwise have a pretty good introduction that could have ended 20 seconds earlier and it wouldn't have resulted in me struggling to contain my laughter. Instead they end on this heavy-handed attempt at symbolism.

I mean I know it's Snyder, but jesus...

 

[OldRoutes]

Because why the fuck was that opening dream necessary at all? Because you otherwise have a pretty good introduction that could have ended 20 seconds earlier and it wouldn't have resulted in me struggling to contain my laughter. Instead they end on this heavy-handed attempt at symbolism.

I mean I know it's Snyder, but jesus...

I thought it was a very powerful scene... eh!

 

[cr0w]

Because why the fuck was that opening dream necessary at all? Because you otherwise have a pretty good introduction that could have ended 20 seconds earlier and it wouldn't have resulted in me struggling to contain my laughter. Instead they end on this heavy-handed attempt at symbolism.

Because it establishes that what he had been promised by becoming Batman, a means to deal with his parents' murder, had become a nightmare that only dragged him farther down. The bats lifted him toward the light, but it was 'a beautiful lie', hence the actual name of the music track, which was A Beautiful Lie.

 

[Zakalwe]

I thought it was a very powerful scene... eh!

I liked the scene too. As soon as he started to rise it was obviously a dream.

 

[FeD.nL]

Because why the fuck was that opening dream necessary at all? Because you have a pretty good introduction that could have ended 20 seconds earlier and it wouldn't have resulted in me struggling to contain my laughter.

Because in that opening they establish that the death of Martha was slightly more the catalyst for Bruce to become Batman, evidenced by pearl necklace falling beside bruce in the cave and little Bruce looking towards his mother first when they are shot.

This also leads into the other dream sequence where a literal man-bat is born from his mother's, not his father's, grave.

Basically in both the dream sequences they establish the significance of Martha to Bruce. Which ultimately pays off when Clark says his mother's name.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Because it establishes that what he had been promised by becoming Batman, a means to deal with his parents' murder, had become a nightmare that only dragged him farther down. The bats lifted him toward the light, but it was 'a beautiful lie', hence the actual name of the music track, which was A Beautiful Lie.

Hey, buddy, I get it. It doesn't make it good. Next you'll be telling get me the Christ imagery was super important too. It's not.

 

[kewlmyc]

So any reason this is rated R, but the theatrical version wasn't?

 

[cr0w]

If someone had to explain to you that the bats didn't actually physically lift him up out of the cave, I don't necessarily think you get it.

I'm not going any farther down this fucking rabbit hole.

 

[bob_arctor]

Hey, buddy, I get it. It doesn't make it good.

Yeah, you'll find yourself in the minority on this one. Most people liked that scene, and the opening in general.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Hey, buddy, I get it. It doesn't make it good. Next you'll be telling get me the Christ imagery was super important too. It's not.

So what makes it bad?

 

[broncobuster]

Because why the fuck was that opening dream necessary at all? Because you otherwise have a pretty good introduction that could have ended 20 seconds earlier and it wouldn't have resulted in me struggling to contain my laughter. Instead they end on this heavy-handed attempt at symbolism.

I mean I know it's Snyder, but jesus...

It's integral to Bruce's attitude in life. I love the Nolan films, truly. But a key difference is Bruce using Batman with purpose. Whereas Bruce in BvS views it as his salvation. Hence when invited to Lex's party, he wants to go as Batman. He begrudgingly goes as Bruce Wayne. Scenes in a film don't work in isolation. You have to take into account other scenes that reinforce his character. When he's saying, "the world only makes sense if you force it to." Well, there you go.

 

[Shaanyboi]

If someone had to explain to you that the bats didn't actually physically lift him up out of the cave, I don't necessarily think you get it.

Yo, I know it's a dream. My ears work fine, I heard the line that immediately follows. It also wasn't at all necessary. It doesn't change that the second it started happening, everyone in my group had to cover their mouths to not just burst out laughing, my girlfriend muttering "Oh fucking god, no..."

 

[Veelk]

If someone had to explain to you that the bats didn't actually physically lift him up out of the cave, I don't necessarily think you get it.

I'm not going any farther down this fucking rabbit hole.

Nothing about his post suggests he was unaware it didn't actually happen. He's saying it's an unnecessary and silly looking scene anyway.

 

[IconGrist]

A complaint like that only comes off to me as having a general problem with that kind of symbolism being in a superhero movie. Especially because it's so in your face with it. Which while not uncommon in its primary medium hasn't quite manifested itself in these types of movies as being normal.

 

[cr0w]

Yo, I know it's a dream. My ears work fine, I heard the line that immediately follows. It also wasn't at all necessary. It doesn't change that the second it started happening, everyone in my group had to cover their mouths to not just burst out laughing, my girlfriend muttering "Oh fucking god, no..."

So you've got a problem with symbolism in a movie about a guy who dresses in a Batsuit to be an actual symbol himself?

That's cool, man. Maybe you were at the wrong film.

It was important within the film itself, as were the Christ/Archangel Michael allegories.

Now, whether you think they were necessary at all is a different story, but you can't say that they weren't important to the story that was being told.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Yeah, you'll find yourself in the minority on this one. Most people liked that scene, and the opening in general.

The opening is good. Really good. The montage, the Metropolis invasion, that stuff is well done (aside from the dude in the building needing to be told to leave work as hell rains from the sky, but whatevs). But that montage is marred by a really sour final note of Bruce floating out of the cave.

Spoiler

please no one else try to explain how it's a dream. I am well fucking aware...

 

[Lord Virgin]

The opening is good. Really good. The montage, the Metropolis invasion, that stuff is well done (aside from the dude in the building needing to be told to leave work as hell rains from the sky, but whatevs). But that montage is marred by a really sour final note of Bruce floating out of the cave.

Spoiler

please no one else try to explain how it's a dream. I am well fucking aware...

Dude,

Spoiler

IT WAS A DREAM!

Sorry, had to. Let's watch it, I love it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN9g7RzTHr4

I'm gonna miss Zimmer and Fong

 

[Ahasverus]

So any reason this is rated R, but the theatrical version wasn't?

Mild nudity and gun violence

I mean... it's better. Unquestionably so. If you're going to watch this movie, this is the one to see.
...
It's still not great but it atleast feels somewhat complete. The problems are less technical and still just problematic from a pure tone and intent point-of-view.

Coming for you, I think the UC delivered.

"And what falls... is fallen" is such a wet fart of a line.

No it isn't. It's poetic.

 

[Inferno313]

Dude,

Spoiler

IT WAS A DREAM!

Sorry, had to. Let's watch it, I love it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN9g7RzTHr4

I'm gonna miss Zimmer and Fong

"And what falls... is fallen" is such a wet fart of a line.

 

[Lord Virgin]

"And what falls... is fallen" is such a wet fart of a line.

For you...

Spoiler

all cbm need more Hardy Bane.