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Batman v Superman W/L Record

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Veelk

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Just as a matter of record, lets actually mark up all the times that Batman and Superman have fought and how that turned out. This isn't about who would have won, it's about who did win, and what were the circumstances of that victory.

UPDATE:

Current Total:

Batman 3

Superman 8

Ties 1



Winner: Superman


Winner: Superman


Winner: Superman, but jesus christ Alfred...


Winner: Superman


Two fights, both in Superman's favor.

Justice League: The New Frontier has a good one (technically two): One
staged
fight, where Superman deliberately takes the L to throw suspicion off, and one real fight. I'm having trouble finding decent pics, so bear with me:

Superheroes have, by and large, either signed up with the US government or stopped operating publicly due to some classic McCarthyism. Batman is one of the exceptions. Superman signed up with the government.

As you would expect, this eventually results in them coming to blows, but unlike most fights, you don't get any sort of fisticuffs. Batman sets up a trap in a junkyard that ends up dumping multiple tons of molten metal and various chemical byproducts on Superman, which slows him down for a few seconds; long enough for Batman to get the Batmobile to a caver network. Superman catches up with him after a few moments, and Batman shoots him with a harpoon made from Kryptonite. After a pretty great sequence with Batman driving desperately down the tunnels and Superman trying to pry loose the harpoon, Batman tries to swing Superman into a specially prepared prison... but at the last moment, Supes gets free.

The fight is then stopped by Wonder Woman, but without her intervention it's made pretty clear that things were about to go pretty poorly for the Caped Crusader.

Winner: Tie, but if it had been allowed to continue, Superman.

Two fights, One for Batman, one tie.







batman-wins.png

We have The Dark Knight Returns.
Despite being the most famous of all the Batman-Superman fights, it's not one where either party gave it their all. Superman let Batman prepare himself when he could have stopped him early. Superman was weakened by having take a point blank nuke earlier. And Superman actually wasn't trying to kill Batman. He was giving him lovetaps as he tried to talk him down peacefully. Meanwhile, Batman wasn't actually giving it his all and was paying the fight lip service to distract him while Green Arrow set up the shot. Once he did, that's when Batman could have won...but he didn't. He specifically says that he could have made it a stronger strain, but he didn't want to kill him, just prove a point. At which point he had that heart attack, that he himself devised as a cover.

Winner:
Technically, it's Superman. In practice, neither of them because neither of them were really fighting. Or maybe both of them can be considered the winners because they both got what they wanted, but it's a rigged fight either way. Batman was basically just stalling until he could intentionally throw the fight while Superman never made it a point to overpower Batman when he could have.

THey had a rematch in THe Dark Knight Strikes again, but I haven't read that, so I'm sure someone else could fill that part in.


Hush:
Superman is under the mind control of poison Ivy and trying to kill Bats. Batman spends the fight partly prepared (apparently, he always carries a kryptonite ring), partly improvising (him electrocuting Supes with the cities electrical power grid was pretty cool) but Superman is slowly overpowering each of his schemes. Batman would have lost if he had not told Catwoman to threaten Lois, which broke Ivy's mind control. Batman mentioned how Superman was fighting from the inside and holding himself back as much as possible.

Winner:
Batman, but one could say he cheated by having an external player, catwoman, to bring an external influence into their fight, lois. Depends on if you consider Catwoman an asset in his fight or an independent ally. Still, he wasn't truly fighting Superman since he wasn't himself and nerfed both his intelligence and strength.


Endgame:
Superman is under mind control again (Well, the whole Justice League is), this time by the Joker, and Batman has to take on each of them. However, he's Batman, and he's on home turf, so he has a plan ready. He evacuates the whole city and gets into a mech suit. It's enough to beat most of the JL, but then Supes comes in. Bat's mech has enough devices in it to hold him off for a time, but eventually he shreds it. When holding Batman high into the air, Batman spits a kryptonite compound into his eye, which disempowers him and causes him to fly down.

Winner:
Batman it seems, but he hated it the whole time. And it's unknown what actually ended the fight, really. It ended with him spitting the kryptonite, them falling into the water, and the next scene is Batman trying to figure out what Joker is up to with the league in hospital beds. For all we know, that fall could have knocked both of them out and they were rescued by police or something, in which case I'd consider it a tie.

However, one should note that while Batman comments how Superman held back from the mind control from the inside in Hush, Batman comments here how the Joker effect here means that Supes is going all out.


The Dark Knight:
There was a very small fight in the heavily disliked first run of "The Dark Knight" in the new 52. Batman had been put under Scarecrows fear gas and started fighting Superman when he showed up to fight. And I mean plain old fisticuffs, no wily schemes here. Somehow, Batman punched him hard enough to make him bleed. Superman pushed him off, sending him flying to the ground, where he crashed into some shed or something and was knocked out.

Winner:
Superman. Honestly, the worst injury either of them suffered was the wound to their dignity. I'm actually all for a fight where Batman has to hold Supes off without relying on kryptonite, but this is just dumb. But they fought, so it's part of this list.


I know there are a ton more, so lets hear them.


One thing I'd like to mention, because I am partially doing this as a demonstration against people who insist that Batman has no chance. With all due respect, they are missing the point. Batman has a chance because it's not about trying to outmuscle or even outsmart the other. It's also their situation and, more importantly, their characters. You'll notice that Batman and Superman rarely have an actual reason to go all out against each other. The only thing that makes them fight is often if they are not in control of themselves. And when they go into fights, it's not a fair fight. There is no ring boundaries or rules they have to abide by. A real fight between them is often impossible because for the most part, they don't have anything to fight about, really fight about, so when they throw down, they usually don't commit to the most effective tactics either of them have and they don't play by any real 'rules'. So, the point is, it's not inevitable that superman would win, because what the fight actually is depends on the situation at hand. In other words, it's about the story, not the physics. You don't get many stories that end with "And then the dragon ate the brave knight, because seriously, what can a human do against a goddamn dragon". Which is true to life. You can always exploit a more powerful being in some way or another, it's just a matter of will you. As Neil Gaiman put it, “Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”
 
THey had a rematch in THe Dark Knight Strikes again, but I haven't read that, so I'm sure someone else could fill that part in.

They did? Man, that comic is a blur - and I read it two years ago. Such tripe, I only remember it being super convoluted, cat skates, president Luthor, and The Atom solving a problem Superman should've asked him to solve decades ago.
 
They did? Man, that comic is a blur - and I read it two years ago. Such tripe, I only remember it being super convoluted, cat skates, president Luthor, and The Atom solving a problem Superman should've asked him to solve decades ago.

Yeah, Flash put a bunch of bombs on Superman then Batman wailed on him with kryptonite socker boppers

the-dark-knight-strikes-again-1-pg74.jpg


Whoever won, we lost
 
Yeah, Flash put a bunch of bombs on Superman then Batman wailed on him with kryptonite socker boppers

the-dark-knight-strikes-again-1-pg74.jpg


Whoever won, we lost

Oh god...it's all coming back to me.

i'm so sorry

I saw the animated Dark Knight movie and loved it. The music, the voice acting, the story - I was all about it for a while. I proceed to read the comic and loved it too - new angles that weren't portrayed in the movie, comparing what the movie did well vs the comic, etc.

Then I read The Dark Knight Strikes Again...
 
We do not talk of The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Never should have been made. Something something mistake, something something trash.

Post crisis superman is pretty weak to kryptonite, toss a little in the eye and hes out.
 
We do not talk of The Dark Knight Strikes Again. Never should have been made. Something something mistake, something something trash.

Post crisis superman is pretty weak to kryptonite, toss a little in the eye and hes out.
Come on, be fair. How well would you function with radioactive material in your eye?
 
There is always a mentality that power/winning equals a better character

This isn't saying people choose to love someone for their power but rather if someone loves a character more then others he/she can't take it if their character loses in a battle of any sort...
Not all but some Batman fans can't see Batman losing because it creates a sense of inferiority even though the character could be arguably better as a whole then Superman.

Therefore throwing some other Batman fans under the bus as not true fans if they say the Batman loses in a fight.
There will always be a number 1 in everything mentality.



Edit: Also Superman is OP to ludicrous levels like a child in a schoolyard playing super hero and stating that their power can counter all their other friends powers regardless of what their power is.
 
In the Injustice comic, Superman breaks Batman's back. Winner: Superman... until...

3482537-superman-vs-alfred-injustice-gods-among-us-36.jpg


Alfred comes in and beats the ever-loving shit out of him, using a pill that everyone without powers has taken to stand a chance against their metahumans rivals.
 
In "Sacrifice," Max Lord made Supes think he was fighting Brainiac.

Who won? You tell me.
Well, I'll need details, man. Batman clearly came out the most injured, but superman clearly didn't kill him as was the intended goal. I don't know what Batman's goal was here. If he's the one who managed to brake the mind control, then he neutralized superman before superman neutralized him.

I haven't read the story so that might not have happened, but the whole point of the thread is that power =/= victory
 
The issue with brainwashing is that I would imagine you're not getting the passionate or dedicated hero you normally see.

If they went all out, Superman could vaporize Batman and Batman could whip out some Kryptonite. If anything, Kryptonite being a thing makes Superman capable of losing to anyone from Jimmy Olsen to Goku.

In the Injustice comic, Superman breaks Batman's back. Winner: Superman... until...
Alfred comes in and beats the ever-loving shit out of him, using a pill that everyone without powers has taken to stand a chance against their metahumans rivals.

That is the most amazing thing I've ever seen.
 
They had tons of "fights" in the pre-crisis days

This one where a possessed Superman just chokes Batman until he passes out.

3039798-world%27s+finest+comics+202+016.jpg


Batman beats Superman with Kryptonite gloves, but gets tied up at the end:

3039808-world%27sfinest_302_18.jpg


3039809-world%27sfinest_302_20.jpg
 
Lex Luthor:Man of steel

Batman has a kryptonite rock and superman keeps his distance and blows it out of his hands with super breath. When batman uses his grappling hook to get it superman grabs the line and flies him away from the kryptonite and then he grounds and pounds him.
 
Well, I'll need details, man. Batman clearly came out the most injured, but superman clearly didn't kill him as was the intended goal. I don't know what Batman's goal was here. If he's the one who managed to brake the mind control, then he neutralized superman before superman neutralized him.

I haven't read the story so that might not have happened, but the whole point of the thread is that power =/= victory

Max Lord brainwashed Superman, who then proceeded to blitz pretty much the whole JL. The mind control was broken after Wonder Woman slit Superman's neck with her Tiara and then snapped Max Lord's neck.
 
Lex Luthor:Man of steel

Batman has a kryptonite rock and superman keeps his distance and blows it out of his hands with super breath. When batman uses his grappling hook to get it superman grabs the line and flies him away from the kryptonite and then he grounds and pounds him.
Oh, shit, how could I forget one of my favorites. That's the one major issue I had with that comic, since I never found a believable reason that supes would just assault him like that. But it's definitely one where bats gets whooped.
 
Well, I'll need details, man. Batman clearly came out the most injured, but superman clearly didn't kill him as was the intended goal. I don't know what Batman's goal was here. If he's the one who managed to brake the mind control, then he neutralized superman before superman neutralized him.

I haven't read the story so that might not have happened, but the whole point of the thread is that power =/= victory
The League was investigating who murdered Blue Beetle, and Batman was close to uncovering the truth. Max Lord, the culprit, didn't want that happening before his master plan was ready so he activated his sleeper agent Superman, whose mind he had spent years subverting. In his mind, Superman was attacking one of his archenemies after they murdered someone close to him; in reality, Superman caught Batman by surprise on the Watchtower and brutally attacked him. Batman tried to use the Watchtower's defenses against Superman, but they were largely ineffective and he was seriously injured and near death. Before Superman could deliver the final killing blow, Wonder Woman returned to the Watchtower and, upon seeing the attack, was able to save Batman. Per Max's suggestion, Superman fled before he could be caught in her lasso thus breaking Max's control, and later woke up in the Fortress of Solitude covered in blood.
 
Max Lord brainwashed Superman, who then proceeded to blitz pretty much the whole JL. The mind control was broken after Wonder Woman slit Superman's neck with her Tiara and then snapped Max Lord's neck.
Right, so that was definitely a loss in Batman's direction then. But you can understand why I asked.
 
The matchup has never been that interesting too me. It's never going to be organic because one or both have to be massive assholes. And not in the cool asshole way like Namor or Wildstorm Captain Atom.
 
I'm so tired of this shit. It's like a newborn vs. Ali. Fans somehow love this, though. So we'll see Batman vs. Superman fights and have writers come up with ridiculous plot armors for Batman for the next 40 years.

Now I want to see someone writing a plot armor/"preperation" for the newborn to beat Ali.
 
I'm so tired of this shit. It's like a newborn vs. Ali. Fans somehow love this, though. So we'll see Batman vs. Superman fights and have writers come up with ridiculous plot armors for Batman for the next 40 years.

Now I want to see someone writing a plot armor/"preperation" for the newborn to beat Ali.
Newborn and Ali are placed into a ring. Ali immediately forfeits because him hurting the baby in any way will ruin his career and also he isn't about to hit a newborn.

Winner: newborn. Seriously, dude, atleast read the OP. You couldn't have missed the point harder.
 
In the Injustice comic, Superman breaks Batman's back. Winner: Superman... until...

3482537-superman-vs-alfred-injustice-gods-among-us-36.jpg


Alfred comes in and beats the ever-loving shit out of him, using a pill that everyone without powers has taken to stand a chance against their metahumans rivals.

Yeah well your family got his killed by using kid gloves on the Joker a known terrorist, so hypocrite much. Nightwing died cause Superman wanted to put already convicted criminals into a better prison, which Batman was against because reasons. Batman is also harboring a terrorist in one Harley Quinn. I guess we should just forget her part in the murder of Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane and the destruction of Metropolis. Batma truly turned against Superman in this story cause I shit you not he stopped an invasion from Apocalypes by killing (Turned them to ashes) all the parademon who were killing people in mass. BATMAN IS INSANE!
 
Yeah well your family got his killed by using kid gloves on the Joker a known terrorist, so hypocrite much. Nightwing died cause Superman wanted to put already convicted criminals into a better prison, which Batman was against because reasons. Batman is also harboring a terrorist in one Harley Quinn. I guess we should just forget her part in the murder of Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane and the destruction of Metropolis. Batma truly turned against Superman in this story cause I shit you not he stopped an invasion from Apocalypes by killing (Turned them to ashes) all the parademon who were killing people in mass. BATMAN IS INSANE!

And that's why injustice is bad
 
Justice League: The New Frontier has a good one (technically two): One
staged
fight, where Superman deliberately takes the L to throw suspicion off, and one real fight. I'm having trouble finding decent pics, so bear with me:

Superheroes have, by and large, either signed up with the US government or stopped operating publicly due to some classic McCarthyism. Batman is one of the exceptions. Superman signed up with the government.

As you would expect, this eventually results in them coming to blows, but unlike most fights, you don't get any sort of fisticuffs. Batman sets up a trap in a junkyard that ends up dumping multiple tons of molten metal and various chemical byproducts on Superman, which slows him down for a few seconds; long enough for Batman to get the Batmobile to a caver network. Superman catches up with him after a few moments, and Batman shoots him with a harpoon made from Kryptonite. After a pretty great sequence with Batman driving desperately down the tunnels and Superman trying to pry loose the harpoon, Batman tries to swing Superman into a specially prepared prison... but at the last moment, Supes gets free.

The fight is then stopped by Wonder Woman, but without her intervention it's made pretty clear that things were about to go pretty poorly for the Caped Crusader.

Winner: Tie, but if it had been allowed to continue, Superman.
 
Justice League: The New Frontier has a good one (technically two): One
staged
fight, where Superman deliberately takes the L to throw suspicion off, and one real fight. I'm having trouble finding decent pics, so bear with me:

Superheroes have, by and large, either signed up with the US government or stopped operating publicly due to some classic McCarthyism. Batman is one of the exceptions. Superman signed up with the government.

As you would expect, this eventually results in them coming to blows, but unlike most fights, you don't get any sort of fisticuffs. Batman sets up a trap in a junkyard that ends up dumping multiple tons of molten metal and various chemical byproducts on Superman, which slows him down for a few seconds; long enough for Batman to get the Batmobile to a caver network. Superman catches up with him after a few moments, and Batman shoots him with a harpoon made from Kryptonite. After a pretty great sequence with Batman driving desperately down the tunnels and Superman trying to pry loose the harpoon, Batman tries to swing Superman into a specially prepared prison... but at the last moment, Supes gets free.

The fight is then stopped by Wonder Woman, but without her intervention it's made pretty clear that things were about to go pretty poorly for the Caped Crusader.

Winner: Tie, but if it had been allowed to continue, Superman.

I was never interested in watching New Frontier until I read this.

Also, is it just me or is the animated DC stuff far better than most comics, cartoons or movies?
 
Yeah well your family got his killed by using kid gloves on the Joker a known terrorist, so hypocrite much. Nightwing died cause Superman wanted to put already convicted criminals into a better prison, which Batman was against because reasons. Batman is also harboring a terrorist in one Harley Quinn. I guess we should just forget her part in the murder of Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane and the destruction of Metropolis. Batma truly turned against Superman in this story cause I shit you not he stopped an invasion from Apocalypes by killing (Turned them to ashes) all the parademon who were killing people in mass. BATMAN IS INSANE!

Nonsense, Superman is an absolute tyrant and nutjob in Injustice.
 
Yeah well your family got his killed by using kid gloves on the Joker a known terrorist, so hypocrite much. Nightwing died cause Superman wanted to put already convicted criminals into a better prison, which Batman was against because reasons. Batman is also harboring a terrorist in one Harley Quinn. I guess we should just forget her part in the murder of Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane and the destruction of Metropolis. Batma truly turned against Superman in this story cause I shit you not he stopped an invasion from Apocalypes by killing (Turned them to ashes) all the parademon who were killing people in mass. BATMAN IS INSANE!

the Harley thing is so crazy to me. Every time she shows up with Batman and his people I keep going "did they seriously forget she was one of the people sho started all this shit".

Fuck those guys, #Supermanisright
 
Yeah well your family got his killed by using kid gloves on the Joker a known terrorist, so hypocrite much. Nightwing died cause Superman wanted to put already convicted criminals into a better prison, which Batman was against because reasons. Batman is also harboring a terrorist in one Harley Quinn. I guess we should just forget her part in the murder of Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane and the destruction of Metropolis. Batma truly turned against Superman in this story cause I shit you not he stopped an invasion from Apocalypes by killing (Turned them to ashes) all the parademon who were killing people in mass. BATMAN IS INSANE!

Nightwing died because Supes was going to move them a prison only he and his supporters had control over and that the public had no checks upon. So if abuse happened in that prison nobody would know except the criminals and the abusers. Throughout Injustice and even the normal continuity it's pretty well established most of her actions under Joker are coerced and stuff she later regrets doing. Batman didn't turn against Supes because of that one act, he had already stepped away from Supes (iirc) and that was the final straw. Because if you can justify killing one man for killing and destroying a city, then an army because they're killing your people, you can continue to justify less and less justifiable acts, which is exactly what Injustice is about. By the end of it you have Supes melting two holes into Billy Baxton's brain just because he spoke out against the abuse. It's a slippery slope when you're an near-invincible god taking matters into his own hands. It's why Batman has so strict rules in the first place, if he were just killing people, he'd just be creating a more violent world and adding to the problem instead of fixing it, driving fear into not only criminals but the normal civilians who live their lives lawfully, and that's just a man. What happens when a God starts killing?

Justice League: The New Frontier has a good one (technically two): One
staged
fight, where Superman deliberately takes the L to throw suspicion off, and one real fight. I'm having trouble finding decent pics, so bear with me:

Superheroes have, by and large, either signed up with the US government or stopped operating publicly due to some classic McCarthyism. Batman is one of the exceptions. Superman signed up with the government.

As you would expect, this eventually results in them coming to blows, but unlike most fights, you don't get any sort of fisticuffs. Batman sets up a trap in a junkyard that ends up dumping multiple tons of molten metal and various chemical byproducts on Superman, which slows him down for a few seconds; long enough for Batman to get the Batmobile to a caver network. Superman catches up with him after a few moments, and Batman shoots him with a harpoon made from Kryptonite. After a pretty great sequence with Batman driving desperately down the tunnels and Superman trying to pry loose the harpoon, Batman tries to swing Superman into a specially prepared prison... but at the last moment, Supes gets free.

The fight is then stopped by Wonder Woman, but without her intervention it's made pretty clear that things were about to go pretty poorly for the Caped Crusader.

Winner: Tie, but if it had been allowed to continue, Superman.

Is New Frontier worth it? Didn't like the movie at all because to me it felt too much like a golden age story by the end of it with a monster of the week type of thing. I don't know, it's hard for me to explain, but while I love the modern day stuff, I've always hated the pre-crisis stuff because it's always felt very fake and very unappealing to me.
 
Also, is it just me or is the animated DC stuff far better than most comics, cartoons or movies?

Don't see it. Most of the cartoons are just Batman/JLA stuff...there's almost never anything else.

And Green Lantern: First Flight, Batman vs. Robin definitely isn't as good as the comics.

Even Tower of Bable was much better than Doom, which just depicted Batman as some god who knows everything and the rest of the league like some 5 year olds.
 
Don't see it. Most of the cartoons are just Batman/JLA stuff...there's almost never anything else.

And Green Lantern: First Flight, Batman vs. Robin definitely isn't as good as the comics.

Even Tower of Bable was much better than Doom, which just depicted Batman as some god who knows everything and the rest of the league like some 5 year olds.

The Superman movies weren't bad. And almost all of the JL stuff is pretty good.
 
I still say their fight in Justice League War is the only way it should ever go down

Batman literally throwing any and everything at him, and not really phasing Superman.

Do they fight in the Batman/Superman book, first time meeting?
 
Don't see it. Most of the cartoons are just Batman/JLA stuff...there's almost never anything else.

And Green Lantern: First Flight, Batman vs. Robin definitely isn't as good as the comics.

Even Tower of Bable was much better than Doom, which just depicted Batman as some god who knows everything and the rest of the league like some 5 year olds.

Dark Knight Returns is probably the best comic to animated adaptation.

That said, Young Justice is leagues above most super hero material I've been exposed to.

That's not in the movie, sadly. Just the comic.

Womp womp :(
 
I've flushed most of Dark Knight Strikes Again from my memory, but wasn't that like all the remaining super heroes versus Superman? I remember the FLash and Atom being involved in that fight too, with Batman only coming in at the end to use the Hulk hands.



What's this from?

Justice League: War
 
Is New Frontier worth it? Didn't like the movie at all because to me it felt too much like a golden age story by the end of it with a monster of the week type of thing. I don't know, it's hard for me to explain, but while I love the modern day stuff, I've always hated the pre-crisis stuff because it's always felt very fake and very unappealing to me.

Hmm... as much as I love it, I'm not sure you would. It's very much a love letter to that period, the golden/silver ages.

Fake is definitely not one of the words I'd use to describe it, though. It's brimming with very much genuine feeling, and there's a bunch of stuff that they had to cut from the movie for time/rating reasons. I'd say give it a shot. If nothing else, the art is to die for.
 
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