-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Battlestar Galactica Official Final Season Thread
- Thread starter Stoney Mason
- Start date
- Status
Aaronology
Member
Wow, I was just laying in bed and something struck me. "All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again."
Ooooh, I'm looking forward to next week.
Starbuck is going to interrupt the Cylon Cival War in the exact same way she did the human one back during the Cain arc. I can only imagine the reactions from everyone aboard the Dmitri. I am guessing a lot of them will suspect she lead them to the cylons on purpose. Not to mention the Cylon reaction. Here it is Natalie has been going on about reunification and a Final Five shows up, the same one who inadvertently sent that order to the raiders that got them in trouble with the Ones and in turn sparked the Civil War to begin with.
Ooooh, I'm looking forward to next week.
Didn't like how the Cylon civil war was over before it began but hopefully something good will come from it. I am also shocked as to the crew Starbuck had. Military protocol seems to have gone by the way side. I also did not like what Lee did bringing up that classified order just because he got owned by Roslin. It kind of paints him just as some power hungry politician and I didn't get a sense that power was the thing that motivated him in the military.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
interesting episode, but i still feel like nothing is happening.
bastionwords
Member
Ok, what the fuck. The civil war is just starting amongst the Cylons. Actually, I would say it kicked into full force tonight. How in the hell is the gunning down of certain basestars the end of the civil war?Big-E said:
I think Lee didn't bring up the classified information just because he was owned. I think it deals with how Roslin has always operated which is a person who believes he or she has a higher purpose. No matter what, he or she knows what is best for everyone and will do anything to accomplish the goals. Roslin has always acted in this manner. I think her actions could mirror the actions of a certain president. I'm beginning to think Roslin's is just fucking quick on her toes, and her response was actually a quick cover up to Lee's actions.
Pudding Tame
Member
icarus-daedelus said:
True, but they never knew they were cylons at the time and still in the service. It wouldn't be so hard to believe they used protection so Boomer wouldn't get preggers on the job. And between the Colonies being wiped and Boomer revealing she's a Cylon, not exactly what most people would call a good time to bring a kid into the world.
JayDubya said:
Not needlessly and not necessarily evil, Tori's actions were more realpolitik, would you want to take a chance on putting your freedom and very life in the hands of anyone, especially someone who has no problem executing unarmed and shackled skinjobs. Still, I don't think the Chief will be very happy when he finds out.
Argh.
That said, pretty good ep, can't wait for the next one.
I'm getting tired of just random people just walking into secure rooms with Vipers and all, freaking annoys me, the one last Battlestar in existence with fighters shot to hell and they don't have people in there 24/7 watching and working on them when they know there's human looking cylons out there? And good thing she knew where the key went and how to use the viper launcher thing, I guess she learned alot while being in politics.
That said, pretty good ep, can't wait for the next one.
Black Deatha
Member
mAcOdIn said:
It's possible that she entered the other landing pod that's not used. I didnt really notice many Vipers on deck, or anyone for that matter, would make more sense.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
No Baltar this episode. Based on the last two, I assume he was too busy having off-screen sex.
That would've been quite the thing, considering both the earlier episode where they went through a lot of trouble to NOT die in an airlock; and that it would be used as an escape from Cylon Tyrol, whereas he'd previously used it to eject Cylon collaborators.Enojado said:
I did think it would be smaller, but I was more surprised that it was so staffed with regulars/semi-regulars rather than nobodies to make it draw less attention from the rest of the fleet.joesmokey said:
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Double post.
Phoenix
Member
bastionwords said:
Depends on whether or not ALL of the models in the rebelling series were aboard those basestars. If so, the rebels are for all practical purposes eliminated. But I find that to be unlikely.
I think Lee was playing the politician initially to see if the rumors about the president's behavior were true before divulging any of the information he had. Once he discovered it was true he made the leap that she was trying to push through this legal basis change without any concern for the process - just as he was also told.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Personally, I'm willing to bet re: civil war:
We've never seen just how strong the Cylon forces actually are; don't know if they have 100 Basestars, 30, or just a dozen (after all the ones destroyed so far in the show). I'll bet that the six or so on Natalie's side that got ambushed might have been all the ships where they successfully killed off ALL the Cavils, Simons, and Dorals.
On the other hand, I would expect that perhaps one of the six basestars did manage to jump away before being destroyed. If Natalie tries to approach the Colonials in order to protect the fleet (even if she doesn't tell them about the Final Five directly), the fleet still needs to be in danger for dramatic purposes and BSG's Desperation Factor (tm). Having one Basestar escorting Galactica would help but still mean they'd have to run from Cavil's forces.
This is assuming that some kind of fleet / Cylon alliance is actually in the cards. In a way it seems possible that is where things are headed, however, I don't know if there is a plausible way Natalie could get the fleet to trust a Basestar joining the gang.
We've never seen just how strong the Cylon forces actually are; don't know if they have 100 Basestars, 30, or just a dozen (after all the ones destroyed so far in the show). I'll bet that the six or so on Natalie's side that got ambushed might have been all the ships where they successfully killed off ALL the Cavils, Simons, and Dorals.
On the other hand, I would expect that perhaps one of the six basestars did manage to jump away before being destroyed. If Natalie tries to approach the Colonials in order to protect the fleet (even if she doesn't tell them about the Final Five directly), the fleet still needs to be in danger for dramatic purposes and BSG's Desperation Factor (tm). Having one Basestar escorting Galactica would help but still mean they'd have to run from Cavil's forces.
This is assuming that some kind of fleet / Cylon alliance is actually in the cards. In a way it seems possible that is where things are headed, however, I don't know if there is a plausible way Natalie could get the fleet to trust a Basestar joining the gang.
The Storyteller
Member
What the frak just happened?
That was so disturbing and creepy. And totally unexpected. This season is moving places I really did not predict.
And I so called it with Tory being the most badass and interesting of the final four. Rekha Sherma hit it out of the park this episode, so did Nicki Clyne.
Bye Cally! I've hated you for like 2 seasons now, but this episode reminded me why I ever liked you. Her scene with Cottle amused me greatly, I mean the girl took his cigarette! No one has ever done that!
That was so disturbing and creepy. And totally unexpected. This season is moving places I really did not predict.
And I so called it with Tory being the most badass and interesting of the final four. Rekha Sherma hit it out of the park this episode, so did Nicki Clyne.
Bye Cally! I've hated you for like 2 seasons now, but this episode reminded me why I ever liked you. Her scene with Cottle amused me greatly, I mean the girl took his cigarette! No one has ever done that!
The Storyteller
Member
Also, I forgot to mention Roslin's bitchslapping of Lee. So awesome.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Great episode. Tory was creepy as hell--the weird distorted fishbowl lense she's seeing through was the very first tip-off for me that she wasn't quite right. As soon as they showed Cally being seen from that perspective when she was looking for Chief in the bar I knew it was her. Makes me wonder if Tory actually saw Cally approaching and wanted to fuck with her mind by pushing up on Chief.
My biggest disappointment is that the Final Four, or at least one of them, are confirmed as evil. Chief is the key--seems to me that Tory will really be all up in his brain now, suggesting their inherent superiority and "perfection" as reasons for whatever machinations she's hatching. Wonder if Chief will fall for it out of grief/despair until he finds out the truth.
And now every scene that sees Tory whispering into Roslyn's ear takes on a whole new level of suspicion.
Starbuck--can't figure out her deal. I am out of theories at this point. Her as a Cylon is too obvious. Maybe she's God. Or has been infused with a part of God.
Think Philip K. Dick, specifically The Three Stigmata Of Palmer Eldritch. Returning from the vast unknown changed somehow after encountering....?
My biggest disappointment is that the Final Four, or at least one of them, are confirmed as evil. Chief is the key--seems to me that Tory will really be all up in his brain now, suggesting their inherent superiority and "perfection" as reasons for whatever machinations she's hatching. Wonder if Chief will fall for it out of grief/despair until he finds out the truth.
And now every scene that sees Tory whispering into Roslyn's ear takes on a whole new level of suspicion.
Starbuck--can't figure out her deal. I am out of theories at this point. Her as a Cylon is too obvious. Maybe she's God. Or has been infused with a part of God.
Think Philip K. Dick, specifically The Three Stigmata Of Palmer Eldritch. Returning from the vast unknown changed somehow after encountering....?
Matt said:
Eh, I'd crack that up to the fact that both her husband and her son both had reason to be a little bit weird, and that perhaps based on that her own patterns of sleep or behaviour were logically modified - plus, she could have been clearly affected in periphery by the fact that Nicholas was growing inside of her for awhile and all. I would think that her "This feels kinda weird" is only natural considering those options.
As for the rest of the episode, they had to deal with Cally at some point and I'm glad they got it out of the way in a single episode.
I'm fairly certain that the fishbowl lens was Cally's POV as opposed to Tori's, unless I'm really mistaken.
But then, if I can beg the question, what does it mean that of our Final Four models she is the only one not pictured in the Last Supper image? I don't think this denotes a spoiler, since I have no idea what, precisely, it means, but it makes me wonder how marginalized she will end up being.
Evil? I don't see it - Tori is certainly twisted, just a little, but her perspective isn't such that I will view all of her actions as negative. I think that she is simply embracing it all in a different way, and that if anything it is a lot of Baltar's doing. And in my books, there is no question that Chief will know better than to fall for it - this will only make him more guilty about who he is (Since he knows that even if she did commit suicide and not get murdered, it was still because of him). If anything, Tori's view on the issue is that she deserved it, and he obviously doesn't follow that - she's manipulative, but I'm not willing to presume evil until I see it for my own eyes.
I need to start being productive (I'm spend the last two hours obsessing over this, between watching the episode and writing my overlong blog post), so I will leave the Cylon Civil War discussion until later. But it is important, so I'll highlight this for discussion:
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Fuck you Cally haters, I can't believe they actually went and did that 
Cally was hysterical, like Starbuck often is. Ewwww. At least Baltar seems to be more composed when he's stressed out.
According to spoilers on some BSG website on future episodes:Kaijima said:
It's Leoben who connects with Kara who then try to work together. Apparently the rebels' are severely damaged and aren't powerful enough to scare Kara into jumping away.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
jak stat said:
Cally was pretty understandable, considering the sleep deprivation and drugs. I thought she was a good character. I'm not mad they killed her, because shit just got real with the final five and it's an interesting twist. They did it so brutally though, and even showed her spaced-out corpse, eesh :|
After seeing the preview last week I had convinced myself it was a fakeout, no way they could do that. But they got bigger balls than I thought
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
I wonder what the trigger is for just-awakened Cylons to use their "powers". Is it automatic once they are self-aware? Tory slapped Cally half-way across the air-lock as if she were a rag doll--was this only because she is embracing what she is whereas the others haven't really come to terms?
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Big-E said:
Maybe it's a fail-safe. When they believe themselves to be human, they have the limitations of one. This allows their cover to never be blown until they are activated. Regardless of their denial, it's in the rest of the 4 to do exactly what Tory did (the inhuman strength). Matter of fact, if I remember the previews of this season, Saul is shown picking up either 6 or Natalie with one hand by the throat...
I'm not convinced that Tory is evil, even though she looked completely stone cold when she pushed the button.
There's a possibility that Tory's perspective is that she had to eliminate Cally because Cally knew about them and once the word got out, they would be ejected out of the airlock themselves or locked away for the rest of their lives, so it was purely a survival instinct instead of something inherently evil.
There's a possibility that Tory's perspective is that she had to eliminate Cally because Cally knew about them and once the word got out, they would be ejected out of the airlock themselves or locked away for the rest of their lives, so it was purely a survival instinct instead of something inherently evil.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
bill0527 said:
She was cold, calculated, mechanical and had no qualms about completely suckering Cally with sweet talk. I call EVIL.
Still, she did keep the baby....(though she's probably thinking it's important being half-Cylon and all)
bill0527 said:
Um. Cally not killing all 3 of them when she could, Cally basically being talked down into surrendering rather than killing herself, Cally helpless on the ground crying, and then being sucker punched and flying across the room... any of this ring a bell?
Furthermore, look at Athena. Athena is a trusted member of the crew. There is no reason why Tigh, Anders, Tory, and Tyrol couldn't have just gone directly to Adama and made it out alive and okay. They haven't. But neither have they gone about sabotaging anything or making assholes of themselves. Except for Tory, who's just murdered someone to keep her little secret.
Tigh really has nothing to lose but his pride.
Anders had nothing to lose but Starbuck. Tyrol had nothing to lose but Cally...
And Tory? Well, she doesn't have a role in the military fleet, and there's no way she'd keep her political job, and no one really trusts her that much anyway, so she's got the most to lose in all this, and she's quite willing to do murder.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
JayDubya said:
And you bring up a tangential point as well--Cally was going to kill herself if Tory hadn't shown up to talk her out of it. So the "OMG She knows!" problem was going to work out in Tory's favor regardless. So why did Tory interfere then? Seems to me that she just wanted to make sure the half-Cylon baby survived. Being a mere observer would have emphasized the detached, inhuman qualities of her Cylon/machine side but the "Oh, everything will be alright, Cally" speech and what followed was no doubt evil.
JayDubya said:
This also begs the question: Is the Cylon programming so insidious that the 4 think themselves still capable of exercising free will in that particular regard--that is, do they think their decision to not tell Adama is up to them?
Maybe it isn't. Maybe what they're currently doing is exactly what they are programmed to do.
JayDubya said:
All of this would be logical if it wasn't for your Athena connection making absolutely no sense - she is NOT a sleeper Cylon, it's important that we remember this. She was a Cylon who chose, wholeheartedly, so become part of the human form of life by proving her worth over multiple episodes knowing full well who she was and what she could do. The fleet was certainly resistant to this, but she was able to prove her worth by redefining her own image. As far as her as a person is concerned, she has never been personally responsible for evil.
On the other side of the coin, the sleeper Cylons are of a whole different breed - they are so known to these people in one sense that a shift to Cylon personhood would fundamentally change all of their existing relationships. There is no danger in Athena, but there is danger in the potential of four other Boomers skulking around with no idea what their programming is. While you're right that perhaps they may face some level of amnesty, to say that they'd make out okay is going too far.
In Tory's case, I will agree that there is more value in keeping their secret because she is in a different position of actually liking this particular shift in her identity. It seems to have defined her in a way that it hasn't the others, which is an important distinction as to how their self-identification identifies their connection to either their Cylon or Human sides. However, I think that you're severely underselling the level to which Roslin, for example, would react to Tori's betrayal, or how Adama would handle the reality of his 40 years of friendship being all a lie. While these are extreme ends of the spectrum, I think that it would be closer to that than "They'll come out ok."
Tigh? iam fairly certain he isn't dead.
Just wish the plot would move a bit faster with just a bit more action and a bit more punching Roslin in the face. At least she's dying that's cheered me up a bit.
Although while asking for more action looking at the current state of galactica a small meteor would kill her.
Just wish the plot would move a bit faster with just a bit more action and a bit more punching Roslin in the face. At least she's dying that's cheered me up a bit.
Although while asking for more action looking at the current state of galactica a small meteor would kill her.
bob_arctor said:
To be honest: that's not evil, it's smart. Cally is a nuisance to them, the baby is an asset and an important part of solving questions of identity, so Cally killing both of them helps no one. It was extremely manipulative, but I don't think that there is such a black and white line between good and evil in the show's dynamic for us to use the terms. The whole question of human and Cylon is one of identity - there's a little Cylon in all of us, and it was clear in that moment that Tory certainly seems to be the Deanna of the Four.
Which doesn't make her evil - just representing a more extreme value system in one direction.
Phoenix
Member
Put me in the Tory is NOT evil crowd. She is an awakened cylon drunk on Ambrosia (biblical/mythological context is just becoming stupidly apparent now). She's starting to flex her muscles and explore behaviors and experiences. All of the awakened cylons are almost like children with super powers.
Phoenix
Member
Sir Fragula said:
The better question is - how COULD you love Cally? What was there to appreciate about her that would elevate her from the Battlestar Deathpool? If anything she was a disposable easy kill. She could be knocked off for dramatic effect while not really changing the direction of the story at all nor impacting significantly the major characters.
Skittleguy
Ring a Bell for me
My reaction to this ep:
WTFOMGROFLBBQKEKEKEKE
WTFOMGROFLBBQKEKEKEKE
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Phoenix said:
I pretty much entirely agree, though I had no overt dislike of her. Still, it was really, really sad to me when they showed her thinking about when her and Chief first got together and how far away in the past that seemed.
:-(
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Lee for Prez...joesmokey said:
I wonder if Tori is going to tell Tyrrol everything that happened with Cally..specifically as well if Cally knew about him being a Cylon.
He's probably guessing that she might have found out given that she gave him a wrench to the head, but I wonder if Tori will confirm that to him.
edit - I also wonder now if that'll make Tori a target for Tyrrol. *looks at the knife weilding Tyroll in the last supper pic*
He's probably guessing that she might have found out given that she gave him a wrench to the head, but I wonder if Tori will confirm that to him.
edit - I also wonder now if that'll make Tori a target for Tyrrol. *looks at the knife weilding Tyroll in the last supper pic*
- Status