SodiumBenzoate
Member
That "The Plan" movie was pretty terrible but Dean Stockwell was great as he always is.
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Battlestar Galactica's Ronald D. Moore Admits: The Cylons did not have a plan.
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
Prophet Steve
Member
It's too bad the planned out more things, because the cylons seemed quite incompetent towards the end, but it's still a cool show.
Thaedolus
Member
It had titties tho.
The main show definitely felt like it lost its thrust after New Caprica, and the need to shoehorn in the Helo/Sharon shit from Season 1 made the ending feel forced. But goddamn if I don't cry when Roslyn dies holding Adams's hand
Seductivpancakes
Member
I'm still upset at BSG over
Came out of no where.
Dualla's death.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Literally LOST in space.
Agent_Carnage
Member
The ending was meh. I would of preferred it was set in the far future and them coming back home to our Earth much far in the future.
Humanity started here then we ventured into space and found Kobol and the 12 colonies. When humanity came back home Earth is now home to tribals as we had similar Human/Cylon conflict which almost wiped out life on Earth.
That would work with how the Colonials and the tribal people on Earth were able to procreate as Humanity was born on Earth so their DNA is close enough. Then for the far future point it shows the cycle repeating itself as all the knowledge was lost.
Humanity started here then we ventured into space and found Kobol and the 12 colonies. When humanity came back home Earth is now home to tribals as we had similar Human/Cylon conflict which almost wiped out life on Earth.
That would work with how the Colonials and the tribal people on Earth were able to procreate as Humanity was born on Earth so their DNA is close enough. Then for the far future point it shows the cycle repeating itself as all the knowledge was lost.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Wait what?
"They didn't have a PERFECT plan" != "They didn't have a plan."
Help me understand.
"They didn't have a PERFECT plan" != "They didn't have a plan."
Help me understand.
catapult37
Member
Sorry for the fanfic, but one thing would have solved all this:
EVERYONE is a cylon. We discover when the cylons are killing people that the dead are being regenerated in another location, basically heaven to them since they believe they are fully human.
Allows the cylons to justify mass killing from their POV, ties in with "this has all happened before." Only downside is that it is a bit matrix-reloaded-y, but I think it works.
EVERYONE is a cylon. We discover when the cylons are killing people that the dead are being regenerated in another location, basically heaven to them since they believe they are fully human.
Allows the cylons to justify mass killing from their POV, ties in with "this has all happened before." Only downside is that it is a bit matrix-reloaded-y, but I think it works.
GuitarAtomik
Member
You know how I can tell you've never seen the end of Dexter....
andythinkpad
Member
This is why multi season plotlines don't work in US network TV. You either hope Amazon or Netflix commit to the project or intentionally ignore the later seasons/episodes yourself.
Because he's not in rehab for the crack addiction suffered by everybody who watched the last season?
A Serious Man
Member
BSG wasn't on a network channel.
Never seen an ep at all
AuthenticM
Member
It's probably better this way, lol. Don't bother. There are better shows to watch.
That's how I read it, too. "The plan" got fucked up because they're fallible and fought amongst themselves, despite having superior abilities. In the broader sense, "the plan" also resembles "god's plan", predestination, whether or not things work out in the end.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
Not too surprised to hear that. The show still rules. And the ending still sucks.
But hey it's the journey.
But hey it's the journey.
The problem isn't that multi-season plotlines don't work. It's that the producers never intended to make multi-season plotlines in the first place. They just tricked their viewers into thinking that they did. The article should be less that the Cylons didn't have a plan and more that it was the producers who didn't have a plan.
Nah, that's dependent on the producers having a plan for the show. They were making it up as they went along, so it was impossible for their characters to have much of a plan.
Jack Random
Member
agree with the idea that the first 2.5 seasons are perfection followed by a muddled mess. There were some great moments near the end though.
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
1.
The Head Six revelation that since her introduction, she has been telling the absolute truth.
Adama and Roslyn
Dualla's Death. Sorry, this did more to convey the despair everyone was feeling than any line of dialog ever could
Happy Ending for the Agathons.
Chief's rage
Sad Affleck
Member
Or Babylon 5's magnificent final episode that absolutely nailed the landing.
I binged this show in its entirety so I never really minded the whole plan business, or the ending itself. I literally did not have time to dream up fan-theroies and connect the dots and shit so I just rolled with the show. The only thing that bothered me was
the reveal of the secret cylons.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Definitely agree with #3 especially. It was a very powerful way of showing how even the seemingly strong and stable could eventually be completely worn down by the hopelessness that was setting in.
RedAssedApe
Banned
:shrugs: i want to watch the show again now
Neither did God by the way.
This feels like old news anyway, I thought we had know this for a while now?
Lost ran for seven seasons, and I think it was obvious from the 4th-5th season that they didn't know what to do. BSG managed to trick people into thinking they had a plan until the last episode or so. This said, I feel Lost at least tried, BSG's ending just felt plain lazy to me.
This feels like old news anyway, I thought we had know this for a while now?
Lost ran for seven seasons, and I think it was obvious from the 4th-5th season that they didn't know what to do. BSG managed to trick people into thinking they had a plan until the last episode or so. This said, I feel Lost at least tried, BSG's ending just felt plain lazy to me.
It became apparent to me watching season 4 that we would not get a satisfying ending. The whole season made no attempt to wrap up hanging plot threads until the final, which turned out to be a copout at best.
Honestly, I really have a high disregard for the final season of this show. It's a mess through and through.
However, the many concepts like the resurrection ship introduced in season 2 didn't make the task of wrapping things up any easier. So in my opinion, the fault lies with the whole series.
Honestly, I really have a high disregard for the final season of this show. It's a mess through and through.
However, the many concepts like the resurrection ship introduced in season 2 didn't make the task of wrapping things up any easier. So in my opinion, the fault lies with the whole series.
There were some great scenes and episodes in seasons three and four, even after the New Caprica arc, although the overarching narrative definitely fell apart. I'd like to think that without the writer's strike, the team could have worked out a reasonable plan. Regardless, BSG is still my favorite dramatic series (and there are only a few episodes I skip on rewatch, Black Market foremost among them).
Having
as two of the Final Five was brilliant. The others were eh. Not that the FF really mattered that much outside of a few episodes.
Having
Ellen and Saul Tigh
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
My takeaway was that
Kobol was just another stage in the cycle. It was like New Earth. Humans evolved elsewhere, made Cylons, humans left, and came upon Kobol where humans had also evolved. Instead of shedding their technology they took on the role of gods and taught the Kobol humans their technology. Kobol humans made their own Cylons. We know the rest.
afternoon delight
Member
And the result is they outclass nearly every fugging contender almost a decade now after airing.
Quality is always going to stand out above and beyond the many, many disappointments released every year.Even The Wire has Season 5's newsroom though- just doesn't compare at all to the lingering Marlo threads laid in previous seasons.
This sounds familiar to me as well. I think you're right, yeah.
SwiftDeath
Member
Clearly the plan is still in motion hence why they'd say that
Kill Your Masters
Member
Eh it's fine for me.
Still one of my all time favourite TV dramas.
I even enjoyed the ending, especially as it had the superior Along the watchtower playing. Yeah the last season was not as coherent as the rest but still damn fine television.
Still one of my all time favourite TV dramas.
I even enjoyed the ending, especially as it had the superior Along the watchtower playing. Yeah the last season was not as coherent as the rest but still damn fine television.
Galactica dropping in and out of orbit and shooting out the raptors will forever by one of my favourite moments in television history
It's Reyn Time!
Member
I'm not going to spoiler this, partly because it's speculation and partly because if you're in this thread you should probably have watched the whole thing.
The Lords of Kobol are the 'Angels' and the 13th Lord of Kobol is 'God'. We see a few of them throughout the show - Head Six and Not-Gaius, the Leoben Kara speaks to before she dies, the version of Elosha which Roslin speaks to during jumps. They're likely the leftovers of some previous cycle, from a group which managed to take resurrection technology to its logical conclusion - to create an afterlife or some kind of immortality.
Something happened on Kobol which made the 13th tribe (Cylons) leave for Earth, the other 12 tribes (humans) to leave and form the colonies, and the Lords of Kobol to abandon them all. In all likelihood it was a war between humans and Cylons, and something happened which made resurrection there impossible. It's mentioned that the Cylons which made their way to Earth were trying to reinvent resurrection technology, and it's mentioned that anyone who dies on Kobol is really, really dead. As in no afterlife for them.
The Angels follow the humans and Cylons around in the series, sometimes trying to nudge them in the right direction, sometimes outright influencing events to try and save what's worth saving of both races. Kara becomes one of them when she dies, likely a replacement of Athena, who God watched throw herself from a cliff and die in despair at the departure of the 13 tribes, or Aurora, whose idol she hands to Adama before she dies (a figurehead on the ship, leading the way much as Kara would later do for the fleet).
Or, you know, BIBLE IN MY SCIFI RAGE RAGE RAGE
GuitarAtomik
Member
Interesting/plausible take on it. Never considered that's what the Angels could be.
whatevermort
Member
BATTLESTAR GALACTICAS RONALD D. MOORE ADMITS: CYLONS DID NOT HAVE A PLAN
I don't think this is really surprising for most people-but I think what's telling is that there are people that expect every TV show to have it's story mapped out in advance when it first airs. That's just not how TV production and writing work. They're all making it up as they go along. The number of TV shows that get a pilot from a pitch/script are a really small - and then from those the number that actually get picked up for a series are even smaller-and then from there the number that even stay on the air for more than a season are even smaller. The chances of anyone having an entire 7 season storyline mapped out for a show is just unreasonable.
I've just sold a TV show. And while I have the big picture story planned out, and the first season arc planned, with a vague idea of what happens in season 2, I couldn't tell you what happens if it runs for seven years. At best, I've got a three year arc - and when there's a writer's room, that's likely getting beaten up and messed around - it's much make fun coming up with these stories with other people. But thematically, I know what the show is going to say - and I think that's almost more important than worrying about planning every plot beat for every possible season of TV.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
I mean you can look to the original series for some hints at what the reimagined 'Angels' were. That had a Ship of Light with vastly superior beings aboard it (the script called them Seraphs - literally meaning 'angelic beings') who could appear and disappear at will, were non-corporeal and claimed they were once human. When Kara dies you see her expression turn to awe as her cockpit is filled with blinding light. The details are open to interpretation but it's clear they tried to include that aspect of the original show into the remake.
Pretty much where I'm at. It almost makes no sense, but damn if it isn't cool.
adamsappel
Member
That's awesome! Let us know when it's ready to air. Be prepared for the GAF backlash.
Yes he did. I believe there was a story of him going into the writers room and erasing any and all plans they had for figuring out how the second half of season 4 tied together everything up to that point, and Moore wrote "It's about the characters stupid", and they went from trying to give an overarching conclusion to what we ended up getting.
I myself enjoyed the ending, it wrapped things up even if it just didn't answer all the questions. 'The Plan' afterwards was garbage though, and shouldn't have been made.