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[Kuraudo]

This isn't a Sega developed game though. It's from Platinum Games, Sega is just publishing it.

It is using a Sega engine though.

 

[Ogami Itto]

I'm sure some site will magnify a screenshot 400 or 500% and find jaggies somewhere.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

Frame drops were the least of NG2's problems.

And it was still more fun than 99% of the games put out this gen.

 

[TheExodu5]

And it was still more fun than 99% of the games put out this gen.

It's my most hated 360 game. And I own Dead or Alive Xtreme 2.

I've never seen an action game go out of it's way with ranged and flying enemies to ensure you're not having fun.

 

[Doc Evils]

I want to Berieve

 

[Phoenix Fang]

It's my most hated 360 game. And I own Dead or Alive Xtreme 2.

I've never seen an action game go out of it's way with ranged and flying enemies to ensure you're not having fun.

Then you should stick to playing easy mode. Matter of fact the game was so much fun I still play it till this day even after getting all the achievements.

 

[TheExodu5]

Then you should stick to playing easy mode. Matter of fact the game was so much fun I still play it till this day even after getting all the achievements.

I've played through DMC3 (original) on Hard no problem.

The difficulty is not the issue. It's the terrible level/enemy design, which is somehow even worse than DMC4.

 

[VNZ]

"Locking" is used way too often regarding framerates.

Sure – you can cap the framerate, as in not letting the engine go above a certain fps limit (as in most 30fps games for consoles). Locking the framerate isn't that simple. It was indeed a feature of the Model 2 arcade board (or was it Model 3?), where the hardware would simply discard any polygons not drawn in the alotted time frame – but these days even the smartest culling algorithms aren't really able to avoid some dips here and there. Why? Because the designers simply throw too much shit at the engine.

Nice ass by the way.

 

[Fyodor Dostoevsky]

"Locking" is used way too often regarding framerates.

Sure – you can cap the framerate, as in not letting the engine go above a certain fps limit (as in most 30fps games for consoles). Locking the framerate isn't that simple. It was indeed a feature of the Model 2 arcade board (or was it Model 3?), where the hardware would simply discard any polygons not drawn in the alotted time frame – but these days even the smartest culling algorithms aren't really able to avoid some dips here and there. Why? Because the designers simply throw too much shit at the engine.

Nice ass by the way.

true. I wish they'd cut down on the super HDR specular lightmap blahdiddy blahs for a better framerate. Something like Oblivion could've taken a visual drop for a better framerate and it would've been much better off for it.

 

[Philanthropist]

Eat that, Carmack!

<.< >.>

 

[Phoenix Fang]

I've played through DMC3 (original) on Hard no problem.

The difficulty is not the issue. It's the terrible level/enemy design, which is somehow even worse than DMC4.

That's what I loved the most about it. I found the level design to be way better than NG IMO

 

[FFChris]

I've played through DMC3 (original) on Hard no problem.

The difficulty is not the issue. It's the terrible level/enemy design, which is somehow even worse than DMC4.

I concur. NG2 does suck.

Bayonetta looks to be the cure to my disappointment, can't wait for it.

 

[black_vegeta]

I've played through DMC3 (original) on Hard no problem.

The difficulty is not the issue. It's the terrible level/enemy design, which is somehow even worse than DMC4.

Amen brotha!!!

DMC3 was one of my favorite games.

DMC4, I could care less about.

 

[lupinko]

It is using a Sega engine though.

blim of gamersyde mentioned that Kamiya told him that it was PG's own internal engine that used.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

:lol
I can't believe 3 years after the launch we still have those discussions. The game will be identical, there might be some slight differences related to different GPU rendering methods but that's it.

Just like Ghostbusters turned out right?

 

[Kuraudo]

blim of gamersyde mentioned that Kamiya told him that it was PG's own internal engine that used.

I read someone on here saying it was a Sega engine a few months back. After I posted, I did a search to try to confirm it, but couldn't find anything. So yeah, maybe it is PG's afterall. If Kamiya says it is, it must be.

 

[BeeDog]

I'll believe it when I see it. That little interview blurb someone posted a while ago, where the response to a question whether the PS3 version is progressing was something along "uhh, it's progressing (LAUGHS!)", still makes me nervous.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Maybe I'm miss remembering the quote then. I was sure it was NG2.

I'm pretty sure it would be a pretty ludicrous claim to make given the numbers on screen during the Ninja steps... But you're confused, I'm pretty sure Itagaki was out of the door before he had the time to hype it up in previews and the like.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Many devs just demo the lead platform version. Last gen everyone demoed the PS2 version and the Xbox version came out just fine. It's just easier to demo one platform than two obviously. Many games where the PS3 version wasn't shown for a long time turned out perfectly fine.

yeah i remember it took a while for any PS3 footage of DMC4 to be shown- even though it was originally thought to be PS3 exclusive.

360/PS3 games developed in-house by one developer almost always turn out fine, it's just when they put PS3 duties in someone else's hands, or port it later on when things can get buggy. i said buggy. im buggin'.

 

[Kuraudo]

I'll believe it when I see it. That little interview blurb someone posted a while ago, where the response to a question whether the PS3 version is progressing was something along "uhh, it's progressing (LAUGHS!)", still makes me nervous.

I'm pretty sure he was laughing at being asked a stupid fanboy-baiting question. Kamiya's directed four high profile games and delivered lots of interviews for them. He's not a stranger to PR and when he's asked a question about a game he wants to succeed he's not going to make a comment suggesting his game is anything but perfect.

 

[szaromir]

Just like Ghostbusters turned out right?

Ghostbusters was especially funny because developers praised PS3 to heavens. However, I think this Bayonetta video deserves a proper discussion, not another "they're not showing PS3 version so it must be shit". Similarly, I remember the same discussion about Mirror's Edge for 360 and it seemed equally ridiculous to me.

 

[iconoclast]

I hope it's equal. I'll probably be importing the Japanese PS3 version because of the 360's infuriating region locking. Forgoing achievements and having an inferior product would be upsetting.

Maybe I'll just get my Japanese 360 earlier than I planned...

PS. NG2 level design cuts the bullshit that does not belong in action games. Endless backtracking, shitty platforming, shitty puzzles, etc. Automatically makes it have the best level design in any action game.

 

[dojokun]

Maybe it means the game is 30 fps, and if you have both consoles and play them at the same time, that's 60 fps total. 60 fps "on both consoles."

 

[StuBurns]

I'm pretty sure it would be a pretty ludicrous claim to make given the numbers on screen during the Ninja steps... But you're confused, I'm pretty sure Itagaki was out of the door before he had the time to hype it up in previews and the like.

No, he did a lot of interviews about the game. And he went after the game shipped.

 

[Fyodor Dostoevsky]

That's what I loved the most about it. I found the level design to be way better than NG IMO

ugh, it's just running in a straight line through a level, with some irritating water parts.

Even though there's less platforming in NG2, it's somehow all worse. When I go back to NGBlack, I always appreciate the variety in the environments more, even though the puzzles are as bad as old Resident Evil's.

 

[burgerdog]

Even if it's 600p @ 60fps I'm getting it for ps3 this year. Unless the 360 version ends up being region free.

 

[Liabe Brave]

"Locking" is used way too often regarding framerates.

And if the videos are anything to go by, Bayonetta may output 60fps but it's certainly not drawing that many. It tears all over the place, in a huge percentage of frames. Fortunately, tearing is a lot less noticeable at full speed from a 60fps game, so in motion it's not as distracting as bad tearing in a 30fps game. But it was still very prevalent as recently as E3.

 

[ZealousD]

[/B]

Amen brotha!!!

DMC3 was one of my favorite games.

DMC4, I could care less about.

 

[SapientWolf]

And if the videos are anything to go by, Bayonetta may output 60fps but it's certainly not drawing that many. It tears all over the place, in a huge percentage of frames. Fortunately, tearing is a lot less noticeable at full speed from a 60fps game, so in motion it's not as distracting as bad tearing in a 30fps game. But it was still very prevalent as recently as E3.

How can you get tearing at less than 60fps? I thought having more frames than the tv can output is what caused the problem in the first place. I'm sure there will be a vsync option for those who are sensitive to the issue but I won't be using it. Any chance of a PC port?

 

[abstract alien]

Sad that we have to hope for such a thing in this day and age. All this power, and its still a luxury to have something that was done on a damn ps1.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

No, he did a lot of interviews about the game. And he went after the game shipped.

I was kidding about the relatively small announcement window and Itagaki's departure from techmo, of course he gave some interviews and the like. Though I very much doubt you'd have a better recollection of Itagaki interview than Draft, and I doubt the man himself would lie about one of his games in an interview. Like I said if you played the game itself, more specifically the ninja stairway you'd know they never had intention of locking it in at 60fps, or even 30fps and to be honest I think the segment went on to show that some things are worth a drop in frame rate.

 

[Smelly Tramp]

Just like they did with Resident Evil 5...

...

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

If I buy, it'll be for 360.

Controller and all. But then again, I'll wait till launch to see if the PS3 version has any extras or anything that might give it the edge. I don't mind buying SP only games for PS3.

 

[-tetsuo-]

That's what I loved the most about it. I found the level design to be way better than NG IMO

You're nuts

 

[MvmntInGrn]

It is using a Sega engine though.

Really? Do we know which other titles used the same engine?

 

[Liabe Brave]

How can you get tearing at less than 60fps? I thought having more frames than the tv can output is what caused the problem in the first place.

No, what causes the problem is the renderer not being able to finish drawing the next frame before the output device needs it. As a result, it just fills in what it hasn't drawn with the same image as the previous frame. During motion, this results in a hard horizontal tear between the two different images. Since broadcast standard in the U.S. is 30 frames/60 fields per second, tearing happens at any draw rate not evenly divisible into these (so 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, and 60fps are all tear-safe*).

V-sync tells the renderer not to output torn frames, but instead to wait until the next complete frame at one of those acceptable rates. Therefore, a game that fluctuates between 27fps and 30fps will tear a lot; with v-sync on it will show no tearing, but the framerate will flip between 30fps and 20fps (with nothing in between). Hence, v-sync gets rid of tearing but results in lower average framerates. There are other methods to banish tearing; all have tradeoffs and costs.

* Theoretically, the new 120Hz displays could also show 6, 12, 24, and 40fps without tearing, but I'm not sure any consoles have output methods that could allow that.

 

[kruskev]

Really? Do we know which other titles used the same engine?

must be the magical sega engine that all the recent sonic games used.

 

[matmanx1]

That interview was mostly useless but I enjoyed the footage. The game looks fun even if I'm not crazy on some of the design work. And yeah, Bayonetta does have an amazing posterior!

 

[Net_Wrecker]

God, no matter how many times I've seen that footage, it always looks different, and just as good as the first time. VERY fluid gameplay, and tons of effects everywhere.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Why couldnt they give us a 1080p mode at 60fps. Now that would be awesome

 

[SapientWolf]

No, what causes the problem is the renderer not being able to finish drawing the next frame before the output device needs it. As a result, it just fills in what it hasn't drawn with the same image as the previous frame. During motion, this results in a hard horizontal tear between the two different images. Since broadcast standard in the U.S. is 30 frames/60 fields per second, tearing happens at any draw rate not evenly divisible into these (so 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, and 60fps are all tear-safe*).

V-sync tells the renderer not to output torn frames, but instead to wait until the next complete frame at one of those acceptable rates. Therefore, a game that fluctuates between 27fps and 30fps will tear a lot; with v-sync on it will show no tearing, but the framerate will flip between 30fps and 20fps (with nothing in between). Hence, v-sync gets rid of tearing but results in lower average framerates. There are other methods to banish tearing; all have tradeoffs and costs.

* Theoretically, the new 120Hz displays could also show 6, 12, 24, and 40fps without tearing, but I'm not sure any consoles have output methods that could allow that.

That doesn't sound right at all. I've never seen tearing on a sub 60fps game. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Pantheon Of The Lesser]

That doesn't sound right at all. I've never seen tearing on a sub 60fps game. Can anyone confirm this?

are you kidding? new Red Faction, Blue Dragon, Fable 2, the list goes on and on... nearly every 30fps game nowadays has tearing, in some cases, it's massive.

 

[Truespeed]

60fps doesn't mean they look the same.
There must be a reason they haven't been showing it on PS3.

That's because the PS3 version is in black and white.

 

[radios shipping overview]

60fps? all over my face

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

That doesn't sound right at all. I've never seen tearing on a sub 60fps game. Can anyone confirm this?

Have you played Resident Evil 5?

 

[Tiduz]

Have you played Resident Evil 5?

uhm wasnt that 30 fps

 

[soco]

That doesn't sound right at all. I've never seen tearing on a sub 60fps game. Can anyone confirm this?

there are parts that are vaguely right but a lot of the details are really off to just wrong.

you can certainly see tearing on sub 60fps games, though. if they've got vsync disabled, you'll almost always see tearing in some sections of any game. you can even have games running above 60fps show tearing. it's all a matter of timing on when it renders a frame and when the output is sent for that frame.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

uhm wasnt that 30 fps

That's the point, he said sub-60fps.

 

[HUELEN10]

I pray for no tearing...

Regardless, can't wait!

 

[mario ate my burger]

Why couldnt they give us a 1080p mode at 60fps. Now that would be awesome

Limited hardware.