I discovered this early on, but it's not particularly intuitive to dodge with lock-on + the dodge button. Maybe if you could tap to lock-on rather than hold.
Lock-on does tend to feel a little cumbersome for me as well. Playing through Bayonetta on Hard now and I still rarely utilize it, whereas in Metal Gear Rising and The Wonderful 101 I didn't really stop to think about it. Same goes for Dodge Offset compared to how it functioned in Revengeance, even if that game was a little too generous with the invincibility frames and whatnot.
You should, DMC3 took the action game genre to a whole new level and in many respects is still unmatched to this day. Bayonetta has taken heavy inspiration from it.
Lock-on does tend to feel a little cumbersome for me as well. Playing through Bayonetta on Hard now and I still rarely utilize it, whereas in Metal Gear Rising and The Wonderful 101 I didn't really stop to think about it. Same goes for Dodge Offset compared to how it functioned in Revengeance, even if that game was a little too generous with the invincibility frames and whatnot.
Kamiya said that they put in lock on just for the sake of it and that it's overall unnecessary to use it in Bayo1, he didn't use it either.
Dodge Offset is simplified in Revengeance but is only really useful for Bloodlust.
The way it functions in Bayonetta is more fun and satisfying imo since it feels like you are keeping the combo in your head a lot of the time without watching it come out, as you can cancel your punch or kick on the initial frames into the dodge and not even have them come out and still count toward the dodge offset.
Eventually you will do dodge offsets for long combos and all you will see is dodges because of how fast you are canceling, and you can speed it up even further by dodge offsetting with Beast Within.
Just beat the game, and I'm not sure what to think. The core combat is fun, but the QTEs and mini-games are awful, and I honestly didn't care for any of the bosses. Even the final boss wasn't particularly exciting, though I may just be thinking that because I very recently replayed W101.
The game wasn't too difficult either (played on Normal), didn't have any problems with Grace and Glory, same goes for the harder versions of em.
I guess I enjoyed the game overall and I'm glad I played it. Though just from playing the demo, I can already tell that I'll much prefer Bayo 2.
Yeah, I only ever use it for sniping distant enemies (especially with Kilgore). The game's soft lock is great, but it's nice to have the option to have the option of a super hard lock-on when attacking across long distances.
Since some of you are talking about DMC, i played 1 back in the day (when it came out), skipped 2 and 3, and tried 4 on PC, but i have to say, i wasn't really feeling this 4th chapter.
On the one hand, it is a gorgeous game, some incredible vistas, and works like a charm at 4k, 60fps.
On the other hand, i can't stand the dodge mechanic and how you're supposed to cover ground with the glove (Nero walks and runs very slowly).
I didn't play many action games, so my comparisons are Ninja Gaiden 1/2 and Bayonetta, basically.
I'm sure i'm missing something, and it's a shame, 'cause i'm really liking the setting, so i'd like to continue it.
And after hearing the Kamiya praise and finally playing W101 last year and Bayo 1 this week, I have to say this: Overhyped Director.
I expected to be wowed by perfection, but there are some parts (360-degree dodge in Space Harrier zone, quick QTEs, cutscenes immediately requiring a dodge afterwards are just a few in this game) which have me scratching my head.
Still a great game, but this is basically my reaction after all these years.
And after hearing the Kamiya praise and finally playing W101 last year and Bayo 1 this week, I have to say this: Overhyped Director.
I expected to be wowed by perfection, but there are some parts (360-degree dodge in Space Harrier zone, quick QTEs, cutscenes immediately requiring a dodge afterwards are just a few in this game) which have me scratching my head.
Still a great game, but this is basically my reaction after all these years.
Since some of you are talking about DMC, i played 1 back in the day (when it came out), skipped 2 and 3, and tried 4 on PC, but i have to say, i wasn't really feeling this 4th chapter.
On the one hand, it is a gorgeous game, some incredible vistas, and works like a charm at 4k, 60fps.
On the other hand, i can't stand the dodge mechanic and how you're supposed to cover ground with the glove (Nero walks and runs very slowly).
I didn't play many action games, so my comparisons are Ninja Gaiden 1/2 and Bayonetta, basically.
I'm sure i'm missing something, and it's a shame, 'cause i'm really liking the setting, so i'd like to continue it.
DMC3 is the best overall package (story especially) but DMC4 has the best combat engine ever, nothing compares.
Nero is extremely fun to use, especially the Red Queen and it's Rev mechanic. You basically end up paying attention to each swing and move you do so you can time an Instant Rev properly and do as many EX moves as you can (which you can also Rev as well). There are two versions, one is normal timing (you get 1 EX bar) or perfect timing (you instantly fill up 3 EX bars).
It's simply brilliant, they perfectly incorporated a parry like mechanic for offensive purposes pretty much throughout his arsenal. So you can extend damage constantly if you get the timing down.
And during all this time you are always charging his gun (Charge Shot 3 is downright amazing).
The Devil Bringer is excellent since it brings the enemy to you and is basically a grab mechanic with unique grab moves and counter moves against most enemies and bosses in the game.
He is such an awesome character gameplay-wise.
And don't get me started on Dante, dude is just nuts in this game. 5 styles. 3 weapons and 3 guns (Pandora alone is a few weapons in one) available to switch through at any given time with a Devil Trigger mechanic that compliments his styles, moves and guns instead of being just a power up mode.
As for the dodge mechanic, Nero has plenty of moves with invincibility:
- Jump
- Roll
- Table Hopper (parry timing dodge)
- Shuffle (offensive move with plenty of invincibility frames)
- Devil Trigger activation (a large window of invincibility basically)
To be honest you can get away with using just the regular jump to dodge pretty much anything in the game. The regular jump has plenty of invincibility frames and has the advantage of getting you right back in the action since you can attack right away while in the air. It's my most used dodge move easily.
Eventually you will do dodge offsets for long combos and all you will see is dodges because of how fast you are canceling, and you can speed it up even further by dodge offsetting with Beast Within.
And then you will proceed to hear...rawrrrr rawrrrrr rawrrrrr. It's pretty satisfying haha. Once I figured out beast within canceling I started getting a lot more Platinum and Pure Platinum medals.
There's a sequence in Bayonetta 2 that will almost certainly change your mind. Not that Kamiya was directly responsible for it, but Platinum is more than Kamiya after all.
I just beat Chapter 2, but I died at the chapter-ending QTE four fucking times because apparently Platinum Games doesn't like the way I press the Y button. Why do they do this? It's cheap, it isn't challenging so much as arbitrary, it isn't fun and it isn't in any way related to the gameplay. I work hard, I do well at the boss, then I blow the QTE and the game spits out a STONE award at me as if to say, fuck you, next time don't bother playing. Crap like that just makes me want to stop playing the game.
And after hearing the Kamiya praise and finally playing W101 last year and Bayo 1 this week, I have to say this: Overhyped Director.
I expected to be wowed by perfection, but there are some parts (360-degree dodge in Space Harrier zone, quick QTEs, cutscenes immediately requiring a dodge afterwards are just a few in this game) which have me scratching my head.
Still a great game, but this is basically my reaction after all these years.
LOL Kamiya's games don't get praise because they are perfect.
Kamiya's games get praise because you can tell the man loves video games.
His games demand a certain level of effort out of you.
If you can overcome it, much like Dark Souls or Zelda dungeons, you will find core gameplay that will have you feeling like a kid again. Learning on your own and using that knowledge to overcome the challenges in front of you will give you a greater sense of accomplishment and a child like joy that you rarely get from the hand holding of most modern games today.
He's a product of the arcade-era of video games where the only instructions you get from the game is what the buttons can do. After that it's only you, your wits, your reflexes and your quarters (difficulty set on high so you either adapt quickly or go home broke). Because of his arcade roots you get arcade mini games/qtes that are hit and miss. I personally love when a game takes a moment to change things up a bit. Makes you appreciate the core gameplay even more (especially if its done bad). I'm an arcade kid myself so one or 2 levels is fine for me, although I can totally understand why Pure-Platinum-ists (or anyone trying to rank high) would loathe them.
All in all, by the time you finish it, you are beat up (and despite whatever bumps you may have hit) You turned out to be an adaptable, stylish, badass that experienced one helluva a ride that many try to replicate, but few succeed.
Kamiya games, like learning how to drive for the first time, is stressful and a bit awkward. After awhile you start to get used to the process while being aware of the way it handles (how hard you need to hit the brakes/accelerator, aware of blind spots etc..) Sometimes the car may handle too rough for some. Others don't have the patience to learn how to use the clutch. But if you stick with it, by the end of it, you're changing lanes, and shifting gears without thinking about it, reaching your destination almost as if you were on autopilot.
Kamiya games reward you with the same amount of effort you put in. And when you make it to the end, you will be rewarded with an experience you won't find in most other games. It isn't the story, or the graphics, or even all of the gameplay you will praise. It's the overall experience and impression the game leaves you with that you will be praising as well as his ability to top himself with each new game. You will definitely have gripes and critiques on how to improve the game, but the refined gameplay surrounded by the rough around the edges charm the game gives off, will remind you why you fell in love with video games all those years ago.
TL;TR
-Kamiya's games aren't perfect..
-Challenges you to learn while playing which is a turn off for those looking for more of a passive experience
-The journey is bumpy and much like learning, frustrating at times. Especially with pop (QTE/Mini game) quizzes
-but the joy you will experience after learning, executing and mastering the unique core gameplay is second to none.
-Games are meant to be played and when (and if) you finish Kamiya's all out chaotic assault on the senses, you will remember why you fell in love with video games.
-Kamiya's games aren't perfect..
-Challenges you to learn while playing which is a turn off for those looking for more of a passive experience
-The journey is bumpy and much like learning, frustrating at times. Especially with pop (QTE/Mini game) quizzes
-but the joy you will experience after learning, executing and mastering the unique core gameplay is second to none.
-Games are meant to be played and when (and if) you finish Kamiya's all out chaotic assault on the senses, you will remember why you fell in love with video games.
Haha, I was half-joking. Bayo 1 has it's problems, as does W101, but I will never forget either of them for the fact that they are great experiences.
I mean you can be like David Cage all you like and say that shit needs a nice story to be great, but W101's story was chaotic and stupid as fuck and I slurped that shit up like it was mac and cheese (love mac and cheese BTW).
I feel more into a game if I can see that passion and dedication has gone into that game and the 2 games I have played, Kamiya seems like he loves the games he crafts.
Maybe Scalebound for the Xbox One will stop his weird crap, maybe it won't. All I know is that i'm learning to strap myself in and just experience the roller coaster.
P.S: Learn? All i've learnt is Bat Mode is great, PKP+Dodge is the answer to all of live's problems and Grace and Glorys are overhyped.
Psh, "G+G are hard even on Normal"? Gimme a break. PKP+Dodge solves ALL.
DMC3 is the best overall package (story especially) but DMC4 has the best combat engine ever, nothing compares.
Nero is extremely fun to use, especially the Red Queen and it's Rev mechanic. You basically end up paying attention to each swing and move you do so you can time an Instant Rev properly and do as many EX moves as you can (which you can also Rev as well). There are two versions, one is normal timing (you get 1 EX bar) or perfect timing (you instantly fill up 3 EX bars).
It's simply brilliant, they perfectly incorporated a parry like mechanic for offensive purposes pretty much throughout his arsenal. So you can extend damage constantly if you get the timing down.
And during all this time you are always charging his gun (Charge Shot 3 is downright amazing).
The Devil Bringer is excellent since it brings the enemy to you and is basically a grab mechanic with unique grab moves and counter moves against most enemies and bosses in the game.
He is such an awesome character gameplay-wise.
And don't get me started on Dante, dude is just nuts in this game. 5 styles. 3 weapons and 3 guns (Pandora alone is a few weapons in one) available to switch through at any given time with a Devil Trigger mechanic that compliments his styles, moves and guns instead of being just a power up mode.
As for the dodge mechanic, Nero has plenty of moves with invincibility:
- Jump
- Roll
- Table Hopper (parry timing dodge)
- Shuffle (offensive move with plenty of invincibility frames)
- Devil Trigger activation (a large window of invincibility basically)
To be honest you can get away with using just the regular jump to dodge pretty much anything in the game. The regular jump has plenty of invincibility frames and has the advantage of getting you right back in the action since you can attack right away while in the air. It's my most used dodge move easily.
Either it's more complicated than Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden, or they don't explain it as "dumbass proofly" as those games do, because i'm having a hard time doing much more than mashing buttons and trying to roll sideways, i don't know what half those moves are.
One thing that bugs me about the dodge, is that in both Bayo and NG, you freely roll in any direction, whereas in DMC4, you can only roll sideways, or you're gonna jump, which becomes hard to determine in more chaotic moments, for me.
If you ever saw Jeff Green play Dark Souls, that's a bit how i feel going from NG or Bayo (not that i'm good at those, mind) to DMC4.
One thing that bugs me about the dodge, is that in both Bayo and NG, you freely roll in any direction, whereas in DMC4, you can only roll sideways, or you're gonna jump, which becomes hard to determine in more chaotic moments, for me.
Yeah, it's tough to get used to. Or even to go back to, for that matter. I've played the various DMCs for probably hundreds of hours, but Bayonetta's omnidirectional, one-button dodge has ruined me and it takes me ages to get back into DMC mode. I tried playing DMC1 in the HD Collection a few weeks ago and I had to stop out of embarrassment
Bayonetta can do pretty much everything DMC4 dante can do via her accessories and her normal moveset. Her normal moveset makes his looking fucking tiny. And at least you can perform gunslinger or melee combos without switching stances.
I'm not great at action games (though I've also don't play them and never really tried). I was thinking of playing on normal and then doing a second playthrough on easy to get pure platinum for every encounter. Or should I just begin with easy to prepare for normal
All of Kamiya's games, both the ones he's directed and the ones he was involved with at a staff level (RE1, RE0) are at the very least competent and blessed with a solid understanding of the medium, you have to give him that.
Some, like RE2, W101 and Bayonetta, I'd even grant masterpiece status. He's earned his reputation as an auteur and then some imo.
I'm not great at action games (though I've also don't play them and never really tried). I was thinking of playing on normal and then doing a second playthrough on easy to get pure platinum for every encounter. Or should I just begin with easy to prepare for normal
I'm doing it the other way around. I'm starting on Easy and will play again on Normal. As far as Platinum Games games goes Normal is equivalent to Hard compared to other games and Easy is the equivalent to Normal lol.
Either it's more complicated than Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden, or they don't explain it as "dumbass proofly" as those games do, because i'm having a hard time doing much more than mashing buttons and trying to roll sideways, i don't know what half those moves are.
One thing that bugs me about the dodge, is that in both Bayo and NG, you freely roll in any direction, whereas in DMC4, you can only roll sideways, or you're gonna jump, which becomes hard to determine in more chaotic moments, for me.
If you ever saw Jeff Green play Dark Souls, that's a bit how i feel going from NG or Bayo (not that i'm good at those, mind) to DMC4.
Like any good action game there is a ton to learn and master in DMC4. This genre is akin to a fighting game in depth so of course it can take a while to learn, but that's my favourite part about it. And like fighting games they are pretty bad at teaching the player (most ppl learn how to dodge offset in Bayonetta by seeking info outside of the game after all) but there are plenty of vids on youtube and info on places like gamefaqs that can teach you what you need and then some.
It can be more complicated than Bayonetta because there is more that you can do (Dante’s move list borders on the ridonculous and has various shenanigans that add even more depth) and it's more free style, not to mention you have two very different and fully realized characters to play with (Nero isn't a clone of Dante like Jeanne is of Bayonetta, gameplay-wise) whereas in Bayonetta a lot of the moves and combos are homogeneous between a lot of the weapons with the only difference being the kind of ammo that is fired.
The moves I have mentioned you have to buy so you probably don’t have them yet but the good part about about DMC4 is that if you buy a move and don’t like it then you can refund the points and buy something else without penalty. Nero is far from a mashy character because you are always trying to time the Ex-Act or Max- Act (the sword Rev’ing, he has an engine in his sword that you can Rev either manually or during attacks which results in more damage and access to EX moves of 3 power levels).
As for dodging, just regular jump bro. It might sound odd but that’s what makes jumping unique in Devil May Cry, there are plenty of invincibility frames on its start up. (the same as, if not more than, Bayonetta’s dodge). And if you just tap jump quickly then you will get a very short hope and can use it as a quick dodge. Jumping to dodge is faster and a lot more useful than using the roll you get with lock on, I don’t use roll at all personally. And you can use jump to dodge in any direction without locking on.
You also may want to consider playing DMC3 first if you haven’t played it. It’s a prequel that takes place before DMC1 and has a really nice story. In that one Dante is locked into one style at a time so it will make it easier for you to delve into the series. And if you start by using the Trickster style then you will have access to a dedicated dodge button.
I'm not great at action games (though I've also don't play them and never really tried). I was thinking of playing on normal and then doing a second playthrough on easy to get pure platinum for every encounter. Or should I just begin with easy to prepare for normal
I bought one of Rodin's treasures and it says it's a costume. How do I use it? When I go to the costume change menu between chapters all I see are the Nintendo costumes.
I bought one of Rodin's treasures and it says it's a costume. How do I use it? When I go to the costume change menu between chapters all I see are the Nintendo costumes.
I'm doing it the other way around. I'm starting on Easy and will play again on Normal. As far as Platinum Games games goes Normal is equivalent to Hard compared to other games and Easy is the equivalent to Normal lol.
Thanks. Guess I'll start on easy. I thought that if I went through normal and got new weapons and saw everything once I would be prepared to get Pure Platinums on easy.
It's pretty hard to gauge my ability since the closest I've come to playing an action game is that I'm half way through God of War I though I know that's a very different game. I do know the best I'll be is competent though.
I did play No More Heroes twice but never beat the final bosses (true final boss for the first game) on hard. Though if you know NMH you know that the second game's final boss is the definition of cheap and infuriating.
I'm grinding earlier chapters to buy more witch hearts before I play the final chapter. How many witch hearts can you buy? Also, it's amazing revisiting earlier chapters where I used to struggle, and now beating them effortlessly. It's like a whole new game. Sections that dragged the first time through are now airtight and fun.
It will help, but it's not something you use deliberately. It basically increases the chances of getting an extended round of witch time, should you miss the timing for the dodge ever so slightly. It's a safety net you'll appreciate when it kicks in unexpectedly during a boss battle.
This game is crack lol. Just played 4 straight hours after getting my copy and it's already past 1AM. Currently at chapter 6. Still as great as it was back in the day, though I am still just so bad lol. Gold and Silvers, yet to get a plat trophy at the end. Still hate those insta-death QTEs. Hopefully I won't see them in Bayo 2.
Just finished this time for Bayo 2. As someone who's first Platinum games went TW101 then Revengeance and then a bit of Bayo 2, Bayo 1 felt a bit slow/clunky sometimes compared to TW101/Revengeance/Bayo 2 and not sure if i imagined it or not but some of the quicktime events have some incredibly small windows compared to the other Platinum games i mentioned although thankfully nothing like
The final button mash quicktime event in TW101 to save the earth, i still resent that quicktime event lol
I'm grinding earlier chapters to buy more witch hearts before I play the final chapter. How many witch hearts can you buy? Also, it's amazing revisiting earlier chapters where I used to struggle, and now beating them effortlessly. It's like a whole new game. Sections that dragged the first time through are now airtight and fun.
It will help, but it's not something you use deliberately. It basically increases the chances of getting an extended round of witch time, should you miss the timing for the dodge ever so slightly. It's a safety net you'll appreciate when it kicks in unexpectedly during a boss battle.
I guess I just really suck at dodging because I think I dodge/activate witch time like once for every 3 or 4 times I get hit. With that said, what DID make it easier/more fun was getting that panther form. Now I'm just dashing around the battlefield randomly hitting guys and running away before they can touch me... except for those really annoying fire/lightning type enemies (can't remember their names, but they first showed up in chapter 4 or 5 and always seem to come in pairs).
Just started it two days ago and I'm loving it. As a big fan of Vanquish and W101 I knew I was in for something special.
However, I do have a question: is there no way to see the high scores for the levels I already completed once? And no leaderboards either? In the W101 you can see your ranking for each sequence at the level select screen, which helps a lot when you want to replay some levels and improve your score...
I dunno what it is, but I'm getting my ass kicked. Playing on normal on my first ever playthrough, I'm getting Stone Awards at the end of almost every chapter
I dunno what it is, but I'm getting my ass kicked. Playing on normal on my first ever playthrough, I'm getting Stone Awards at the end of almost every chapter
Just started it two days ago and I'm loving it. As a big fan of Vanquish and W101 I knew I was in for something special.
However, I do have a question: is there no way to see the high scores for the levels I already completed once? And no leaderboards either? In the W101 you can see your ranking for each sequence at the level select screen, which helps a lot when you want to replay some levels and improve your score...
However, I do have a question: is there no way to see the high scores for the levels I already completed once? And no leaderboards either? In the W101 you can see your ranking for each sequence at the level select screen, which helps a lot when you want to replay some levels and improve your score...
Before you start a chapter you can bring up a menu with various options, one of them shows you your records. It shows the ranks you earned on each difficulty and chapter.
Before you start a chapter you can bring up a menu with various options, one of them shows you your records. It shows the ranks you earned on each difficulty and chapter.
I love Bayonetta, DMC1 Dante, and DMC4 Dante, but I'm not keen on DMC3 Dante at all. His Swordmaster combos just don't feel good or powerful to me, and I need a good sword in these sorts of games. I'm not a fan of DMC3 generally actually, although I recognise that it's a good game.
Unless of course you simply mean from a cutscene/cool/funny guy perspective, in which case he's awesome.
