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[Kintaro]

I think the major thing I take away from all of this is that it is just another example of how young this medium is and how far, far, far away it is from being taken as a serious form of character and expression. Granted, his doesn't apply to this particular game, but in general. It is still so, so young.

What I mean is, for example, If a game came along that tackled racial issues, how would it be taken? Probably not very good. The only company who could do it is Rockstar it seems. Hell, Bioware gets grief for including sex in games...

 

[Shito]

Which is sad.

It would be nice if some people used this story (whether it's overblown or not) as an opportunity to look into the negative connotations associated with the word in an attempt to better understand why some people could be offended by it.

Or if some people would look at the fact that obviously a non-negligeable part of the english-society lost the negative connotation associated with the term, and embrace the joyous fact that someone used it as its initial meaning: a fruit.
Isn't that what we should be striving for? Get rid of those racist connotations?
Isn't that what is happening for this word?

 

[Tempy]

I'll have you know that if we bitch enough, the next Scribblenauts game is going to be incredibly bland. Forgot the words baby, meat, priests, and gun! Just be happy with different species of bird!

Bird can be a derogatory term for a woman.

 

[Blizzard]

Not too obscure for last year's presidential race. Funny how that popped up with a black male in the mix.

No, that's not at all what I meant, sorry. I meant (see my notes about dictionary definition) the problem is that using "sambo" to refer to a melon seems exceedingly obscure. If sambo was a well-known word or you could actually find it in any English language reference book, then I think people -might- not mind as much.

 

[DisenLedZep]

So... now thanks to Kotaku eventualy someone on tv news will mention this and: success!
Kinda remind me of this... :lol

 

[Woodsy]

You're very, very wrong

And --
1950? Try saying that in certain parts of America and see where you wake up in the morning. I'm 26, black, and definitely know the history of the word. Like other posters have said, the sad thing is not many people in America know it's a racist term. But whatever. it's just something 5th Cell has to deal with now.

It's "sad" that people son't know that it's a racist term? That's simply evidence that it's a term that is no longer used and/or relevant. Is "clover" in there? That's a racist term for the Irish - should we be up in arms about that one too, even though nobody has probably seriously used that as a racist term in 60 years.

This is the problem with America moving beyond racism - when you make an issue about some developer putting a fruti in a game that has the same name as some outdated racist term, you diminish the impact of ACTUAL racist acts. Sometimes a sambo is just a sambo.

 

[Shurs]

Isn't that what we should be striving for? Get rid of those racist connotations?

By sweeping them under the rug and acting like they never existed? No.

 

[EternalGamer]

The sheer percentage of people who argue that this isn't a big deal is more concerning to me than the actual in game use. This is about as blatantly obvious of a racist term as you can get. It would be like if someone who grew up in a 3rd world country only read novels from the U.S written in the early 19th century and then came here and started calling black people "niggers." Yes, she did not INTEND to use racist language, but that doesn't change the fact that she did use racist language and should apologize upon being made aware of her ignorance.


There is no coincidence in the fact that people who are ignorant to the history of racism in the U.S. are the same people who are saying this is "no big deal." And again, yes, sorry but if you have not heard this term, you don't know anything about the history racist propaganda in the U.S. Just because it is not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it isn't to others. At least make an attempt to raise your cultural awareness rather than obnoxiously assuming that your perspective is the objective one.

 

[Blizzard]

Let me help you with your "research."

What's the second listing on Google?

Apparently I made a really stupid post and didn't clarify what I meant. What I was trying to do was research sambo's meaning as a melon, not as a racial slur, since people above me (I think I might have quoted someone) were saying that "sambo means melon". The only thing I could find was that sambo is the Spanish/German term for a fig leaf gourd, and it doesn't show up in dictionaries or google's define: or wikipedia except for a couple of isolated articles, etc.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Shito]

By sweeping them under the rug and acting like they never existed? No.

No: by giving them back their initial meaning.

 

[Rashanii]

Can't wait for the other racism arguments like:



Don't forget the grape juice!

What the fuck is JUICE! Gimme some of that apple drink, baby! It's green...

 

[Tempy]

No, that's not at all what I meant, sorry. I meant (see my notes about dictionary definition) the problem is that using "sambo" to refer to a melon seems exceedingly obscure. If sambo was a well-known word or you could actually find it in any English language reference book, then I think people -might- not mind as much.

I believe that sambo the gourd does not show up in most English language references because it's a foreign word, and unlike, for example, the Japanese sushi, hasn't become entrenched enough in general daily usage to be considered part of the English language.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I think the major thing I take away from all of this is that it is just another example of how young this medium is and how far, far, far away it is from being taken as a serious form of character and expression. Granted, his doesn't apply to this particular game, but in general. It is still so, so young.

What I mean is, for example, If a game came along that tackled racial issues, how would it be taken? Probably not very good. The only company who could do it is Rockstar it seems. Hell, Bioware gets grief for including sex in games...

I'm not sure if it's completely a function of age, though.

Pro baseball and football have been around for a helluva long time and yet I still see the Washington Redskins and Chief Wahoo.

 

[dcdobson]

I haven't actually read the article, but I must say that I'm genuinely shocked by the number of americans who hadn't heard of the word "sambo". Can we consider this, in a weird way, progress?

 

[Suairyu]

http://www.reason.com/news/show/31068.html

That was an incredibly stimulating read. Thank you.

If I'm looking to get a cigarette (no chance in hell), I wouldn't ask one of my gay friends if I could bum a fag off him because A) he'd laugh his ass off and B) I know how that word is loaded for gays, even if I would never mean it in that manner.

Haha, I was so close to using that as an example.

 

[water_wendi]

By sweeping them under the rug and acting like they never existed? No.

i see a couple types of people.

a) People are saying that they have honestly never heard of the term as a racial slur
b) Old people saying that they know of its use as a slur but havent heard it used in 20+ years

i dont see anyone denying that it never existed as a slur.

Putting in a melon-like graphic instead demonstrates a lack of sensitivity, imo.

Well what should the devs should have put in?

I haven't actually read the article, but I must say that I'm genuinely shocked by the number of americans who hadn't heard of the word "sambo". Can we consider this, in a weird way, progress?

Well now that it has made the video game press rounds, expect the word to make a resurgence on Live.

 

[DrFunk]

It's "sad" that people son't know that it's a racist term? That's simply evidence that it's a term that is no longer used and/or relevant. Is "clover" in there? That's a racist term for the Irish - should we be up in arms about that one too, even though nobody has probably seriously used that as a racist term in 60 years.

This is the problem with America moving beyond racism - when you make an issue about some developer putting a fruti in a game that has the same name as some outdated racist term, you diminish the impact of ACTUAL racist acts. Sometimes a sambo is just a sambo.

You know, I'd agree with you here, but that's simply not true. Living in the South, the term comes up more often that you think. And like Mr. Moderator mentioned earlier, it showed up during a fucking presidential election!

 

[Luigiv]

Let me help you with your "research."

What's the second listing on Google?

If you think 5th Cell had time to Google every single word they put in Scribblenauts, you're crazy. The guys in 5th Cell are all under 30 so it's doesn't seem odd that whoever found the word in whatever esoteric text they were reading didn't know it was also a racial slur. To him it was just another noun he never heard of before to be added to Objectnauts... "Oh! and it looks like a watermelon? [Copy & Paste graphic] Ok done, next word". It really wasn't that hard a mistake to make.

 

[Woodsy]

The sheer percentage of people who argue that this isn't a big deal is more concerning to me than the fact than the actual in game use.


There is no coincidence in the fact that people who are ignorant to the history of racism in the U.S. are the same people who are saying this is "no big deal." And again, yes, sorry but if you have not heard this term, you don't know anything about the history racist propaganda in the U.S.

The funny thing is, I bet the people that have a problem with this term being in the game or with the people who don't think it's any big deal, probably had no idea that a sambo was actually a fruit.

 

[soul creator]

I think this particular instance is much ado about nothing, but a huge swath of GAF's willful ignorance and/or continuous refusal to accept that anything could possibly be interpreted as racist is consistently scary to me.

agreed.

This has pretty much been my feelings about this and the RE5 stuff...the actual content in and of itself doesn't bother me, but I'm always amused/weirded out by the overly defensive responses.

 

[fatty]

There is no coincidence in the fact that people who are ignorant to the history of racism in the U.S. are the same people who are saying this is "no big deal." And again, yes, sorry but if you have not heard this term, you don't know anything about the history racist propaganda in the U.S.

Thanks for getting on that high horse and enlightening us. Us lowly peons (sorry if I offended any ogres) who only associated Samba with martial arts have no perspective on the "history of racist propaganda in the U.S".

 

[stuminus3]

What a lot of complete and utter shite.

 

[McBradders]

What the fuck is JUICE! Gimme some of that apple drink, baby! It's green...

:lol awesome, and here's the performance for those behind the curve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuTjQLfU6Gk

 

[Tempy]

The funny thing is, I bet the people that have a problem with this term being in the game or with the people who don't think it's any big deal, probably had no idea that a sambo was actually a fruit.

They're ignorant of the wonderful world of gourds!

 

[RotBot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQhKaDMfXU&fmt=18

Where was the uproar when a Sambomaster song was in Ouendan 2 on the Nintendo DS?

Sure, their name could mean a Russian martial art expert, but it could also imply that they want to be black slave owners!

 

[eznark]

Any thread with a reason.com link is a winner.

Bish, if you needed a spade what would you ask for from a black friend? What if you're playing spades, do you request a change to clubs? Also, when you are at white folks houses what do you put cheese on?

 

[wayward archer]

The funny thing is, I bet the people that have a problem with this term being in the game or with the people who don't think it's any big deal, probably had no idea that a sambo was actually a fruit.

I seriously doubt very many people on either side of the argument knew it was a fruit before this thread.

 

[Flachmatuch]

The sheer percentage of people who argue that this isn't a big deal is more concerning to me than the fact than the actual in game use.

There is no coincidence in the fact that people who are ignorant to the history of racism in the U.S. are the same people who are saying this is "no big deal." And again, yes, sorry but if you have not heard this term, you don't know anything about the history racist propaganda in the U.S.

But this is no big deal, because there was no racist intent or even idiotic insensitivity (like in RE5), it's just that they didn't know the word. There's no racist feeling or thinking behind it, no racist undertones, it implies nothing - it's just a simple word used badly, and that'll keep happening all the time. It's *incomparable* to the racism and jingoism, sexism or militarism in quite a few other games, like MW or Ninja Gaiden or whatever.

 

[water_wendi]

Any thread with a reason.com link is a winner.

Bish, if you needed a spade what would you ask for from a black friend? What if you're playing spades, do you request a change to clubs? Also, when you are at white folks houses what do you put cheese on?

A peckerwood?

 

[hamchan]

I seriously doubt very many people on either side of the argument knew it was a fruit before this thread.

A lot of people didn't even know the word existed.

 

[J Tourettes]

I must say that I'm quite surprised at the amount of people that hadn't even heard of this word. I'm thirty and live in London and I'm familiar with this word, although I rarely hear it.

 

[Vagabundo]

If that were so, it would make me quite gay indeed.

As a side thought, it's an odd coincidence that you mentioned Dublin just now, as I was just thinking at how the whole watermelon thing is same as the stereotype that Irish people only eat potatoes. You guys don't get offended by that do you? No one gets up in arms stressing it not PC, do they?

No coz we actually do eat a megaton of potatoes. There is a large section of the country that would not class a dinner as a dinner if it does not include at least one type of potato.

I always laugh at one of my friends from the deep country - the Wilds of Tipperary - who owned a farm. She told me her mother had to have a big bowl of boiled potatoes on the table even when they are having Spag-Bol, or the father would throw a fit.

We're a little more cosmopolitan in our eating habit these days, but we're still big potato eaters - and the supposedly biggest eaters of tinned Baked Beans per capita in the World.

EDIT: I didnt actually answer your question, but I doubt many irish people would get offended, but there are some sure ways to start a fight with an irish man, start talking about politics or religon. They are our hot buttons.

 

[soqquatto]

The funny thing is, I bet the people that have a problem with this term being in the game or with the people who don't think it's any big deal, probably had no idea that a sambo was actually a fruit.

not only racist, you're also homophobic. sir, you disgust me.

 

[EternalGamer]

Thanks for getting on that high horse and enlightening us. Us lowly peons (sorry if I offended any ogres) who only associated Samba with martial arts have no perspective on the "history of racist propaganda in the U.S".

Ignorance is ignorance. I've tried being nice about it earlier in the thread, but it only resulted in people being obnoxious and creating a strawman out of what I was saying. There is no shame in calling people out for their ignorance. In fact, more people should do it.

Our culture has a very significant history of anti-intellectualism (Richard Hoffstadter has a great book on this topic) and being willing to actually call people out on it is important less be overrun by people who are obnoxiously loud but are not held to facts.

 

[Epic Tier 3 Engineer]

agreed.

This has pretty much been my feelings about this and the RE5 stuff...the actual content in and of itself doesn't bother me, but I'm always amused/weirded out by the overly defensive responses.

If anything, it's the exact opposite. People make much ado out of absolutely nothing. It's political correctness at its worst, and it breeds racism. I have as many black friends as white who enjoyed the hell out of RE5 and it was the farthest thing from their mind.

Yeah, I mentioned in passing that the internet called it "the official game of the KKK". They laughed, and we continued playing co-op.

 

[Shurs]

i see a couple types of people.

a) People are saying that they have honestly never heard of the term as a racial slur
b) Old people saying that they know of its use as a slur but havent heard it used in 20+ years

i dont see anyone denying that it never existed as a slur.

I understand that point.

The point I was attempting (poorly) to make was that if a person's unawareness of the negative connotations of the word are indicative of a lack of understanding regarding the struggles that African-American's have had (and IMO continue) to go through in this country, then I'd rather they know that the term was used as a racial slight at one time.

I think it only helps to know history, good or bad, so we don't repeat the mistakes of our predecessors.

 

[Shito]

If I'm looking to get a cigarette (no chance in hell), I wouldn't ask one of my gay friends if I could bum a fag off him because A) he'd laugh his ass off and B) I know how that word is loaded for gays, even if I would never mean it in that manner.

So you would deny your friend a good laugh, even though you know he would take it lightly, as he should?
Man, what kind of a friend are you! ^^
Seems to me you just illustrated the exact opposite of what you wanted to express: context matters, and so with it *intention*.

 

[eznark]

not only racist, you're also homophobic. sir, you disgust me.

:lol

 

[riskVSreward]

So typing in sambo summons a gourd, it's literal meaning, and it looks like a watermelon... you'd have to be a real asshole to write an article making a racist connotation out of it. On the other hand, people should let this one go because theres obviously no real racism in this instance. For the record, I've never heard this term reference anything other than the martial art.

 

[McBacon]

Further discounting any impression that there was an racial intent, Slaczka also told Kotaku that one of the people responsible for finding and adding words to the game was black — to be clear, Slaczka, however, is not saying that an African-American put the word "Sambo" in.

This whole section is just a nightmare. Ugh.

 

[truly101]

I still think its a bit of a stretch to automatically associate Sambo with a melon like graphic because you're relying on everyone having those same connotations and associations, and its not consistent throughout the game. If I put in "chink" or "nip" and got a bowl of rice, yeah, you've got a problem there. Otherwise you have to equate Sambo = black man stereotype = southern black stereotypes = watermelon and other food. I understand some of the points, but its just not strong enough for me.

BTW I love fried chicken and grape soda and I'm white.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

And again, yes, sorry but if you have not heard this term, you don't know anything about the history racist propaganda in the U.S.

It's true. Science has determined that not knowing this word actually sucks other facts out of your head.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think this particular instance is much ado about nothing, but a huge swath of GAF's willful ignorance and/or continuous refusal to accept that anything could possibly be interpreted as racist is consistently scary to me.

Bingo. We are a bunch of manbabies that don't want any critical lens placed over our entertainment unless we're bitching about there not being a critical lens placed on our entertainment.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Back in my freshman year when we were discussing slope fields in my calc class one of the slope fields had ab equation that when you drew out the slope field drew a swastika. OBVIOUSLY MY JEWISH PROFESSOR WAS A NAZI.

 

[hamchan]

I understand that point.

The point I was attempting (poorly) to make was that if a person's unawareness of the negative connotations of the word are indicative of a lack of understanding regarding the struggles that African-American's have had (and IMO continue) to go through in this country, then I'd rather they know that the term was used as a racial slight at one time.

I think it only helps to know history, good or bad, so we don't repeat the mistakes of our predecessors.

It's not indicative of that though. I live in Australia and even I know about the struggles African-Americans have gone through. I expect most people in the world would too. I've never heard of this term though.

 

[Tempy]

BTW I love fried chicken and grape soda and I'm white.

I've heard about the stereotypical love of watermelons and fried chicken, but where does the grape soda thing come from anyway?

 

[jibblypop]

I have never heard this word in my life.. but my wife is from the States so I asked her and she knew it right away. So I guess it's more common than I thought (especially for Americans)

 

[taylor910]

10 pages and not one Kanye meme telling Kotaku that RE5 is the most racist game ever??


Guess that is officially dead

 

[JoeFu]

It's true. Science has determined that not knowing this word actually sucks other facts out of your head.

It's totally true. I forgot everything about the discussion about The Birth of a Nation and other things I learned during AP US History in high school after finding out I never heard of this word.

 

[HK-47]

Thats grape drink!

Dave Chappelle - Grape Drink

Beat me to it. Love that bit.