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[truly101]

I don't know how much I would try to downplay the whole RE5 "OMG RACISM!" thing when compared to this. Whether you agreed with N'Gai's opinion of the trailer or not, you are talking about how a race of people are being depicted in a game versus a by the way word/object association from a racist slang word and a fruit that might reinforce that connotations. Both topics are worth discusion, but I felt N'Gai's greivance with the trailer had a bit more merit to it.

 

[Luigiv]

Jesus, why don't you guys learn to speak English over there?

:lol You've got it backwards.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Just a warning: If the number of posts in this thread exceeds the number of posts in the official Scribblenauts thread, no one gets dessert.

No one.

 

[soul creator]

Ten years ago, I would have generally agreed with you, but over the years my thinking has changed somewhat. We've got people running around spouting off the "N" word left and right with no hate associated with their use of it. Hell, in many cases it's used to promote camaraderie as insane as it seems from the outside looking in. In that sense, I think we've shifted things around a bit. I would have prior to this shift considered the "N" word and other racial slurs to be inherently negative words, displaying racism quite openly.

But by people attempting to take the words back - or whatever it's being called - they've made it impossible to consider any word inherently bad and something deserving of punishment for using it because you don't know why it was used. Motive becomes the focal point at this time, IMO.

I'm actually referring to the fact that racism as a phenomenon often times goes beyond simply "people saying possibly offensive words", and can instead manifest itself implicitly in unspoken cultural attitudes, institutions, and other social structures.

That's what I meant to get across when I mentioned that I thought that was a limited view of racism. I'm rarely personally offended by "bad words" form of racism.

 

[woodypop]

The facts really seem to be on 5th Cell's side, but a significant amount of people here are still offended. This isn't meant to say "YOU'RE WRONG!", just that I don't understand.

Is that really the case?

I haven't read the entire thread (it's moving way too fast), but I don't get the feeling that a lot of people are actually offended by what's in the game. I see more people taking issue with the possibility that someone might be offended by it.

 

[Bit-Bit]

Can we ban Kotaku now?

 

[Hootie]

People are actually offended by this? Fucking hell. :lol

 

[RedNumberFive]

Can we ban Kotaku now?

Seconded!

 

[Zerokku]

Seconded!

Thirded.

Though I'm still a junior so my opinion means nothing D:

 

[C Jones]

Can we ban Kotaku now?

What is the logic? They ran the story, and they have a quote from a dev saying that they aren't a racist company and they don't make racist games.

I had no idea about this before I read the story. Had I typed in "sambo" and saw what appears, I would've been confused as hell and I may have thought something was up (of course I would've done some research, but my initial reaction would not have been good). Now that I've read the story I know the intent of the devs, and I know that no harm was done. Why are some of you throwing a fit at Kotaku for running this?

 

[poppabk]

[*]Based on this information, I decided that 5th Cell didn't do anything wrong or malicious, although they should probably remove that dictionary word from the next run of the game to prevent any more misunderstanding.

Why? Ultimately, if anyone is offended, it is because there is a fruit that looks similar to a watermelon that is called a sambo. People should complain to the people in charge of naming fruits, not 5th Cell.

 

[Zerokku]

What is the logic? They ran the story, and they have a quote from a dev saying that they aren't a racist company and they don't make racist games.

I had no idea about this before I read the story. Had I typed in "sambo" and saw what appears, I would've been confused as hell and I may have thought something was up (of course I would've done some research, but my initial reaction would not have been good). Now that I've read the story I know the intent of the devs, and I know that no harm was done. Why are some of you throwing a fit at Kotaku for running this?

Because the way they ran it, with an intentionally sensationalistic headline.

 

[Kyzer]

You can ban it. And they'll STILL lurk.

And steal GAF poster ideas.

Word for word.

and say they "realized" it on their own.
and even use the same reference pics.

Just like the Final Fantasy Elixir font.
Just like Serah looking like a hentai bag.

 

[C Jones]

Because the way they ran it, with an intentionally sensationalistic headline.

So they are a site grabbing for clicks? What site doesn't do that? I could see if the content was shady but I'm just not seeing it. The quote is right there.

Edit: to be clear I don't really care for Kotaku at all. I know they've reported inaccurate stuff in the past. I'm just not seeing the problem in this particular case.

 

[RedNumberFive]

What is the logic? They ran the story, and they have a quote from a dev saying that they aren't a racist company and they don't make racist games.

I had no idea about this before I read the story. Had I typed in "sambo" and saw what appears, I would've been confused as hell and I may have thought something was up (of course I would've done some research, but my initial reaction would not have been good). Now that I've read the story I know the intent of the devs, and I know that no harm was done. Why are some of you throwing a fit at Kotaku for running this?

Kotaku tends to run sensationalist stories to drive up page views. That's besides the point, as Kotaku is generally awful all around, thus deserving of said ban.

 

[dragonfart28]

And the overly sensitive lose another round. Thank you GAF for this goldmine of a thread.

 

[Haly]

People are actually offended by this? Fucking hell. :lol

I think it's more like some people think others might be offended by this, and are complaining about it on principle.

 

[dojokun]

So they are a site grabbing for clicks? What site doesn't do that? I could see if the content was shady but I'm just not seeing it. The quote is right there.

Edit: to be clear I don't really care for Kotaku at all. I know they've reported inaccurate stuff in the past. I'm just not seeing the problem in this particular case.

To be more specific, they are a site for grabbing clicks, even at the expense of the reputation for well-meaning people (in this case, 5th Cell). A lot of sites don't do that.

 

[freddy]

What is the logic? They ran the story, and they have a quote from a dev saying that they aren't a racist company and they don't make racist games.

I had no idea about this before I read the story. Had I typed in "sambo" and saw what appears, I would've been confused as hell and I may have thought something was up (of course I would've done some research, but my initial reaction would not have been good). Now that I've read the story I know the intent of the devs, and I know that no harm was done. Why are some of you throwing a fit at Kotaku for running this?

Kotaku has edited the story and headline and a lot of people probably don't realise it happened. The edited version is quite reasonable to me. The original didn't seem as reasonable to a lot of people including me.

 

[RedNumberFive]

To be more specific, they are a site for grabbing clicks, even at the expense of the reputation for well-meaning people (in this case, 5th Cell). A lot of sites don't do that.

Game journalism at it's finest!

Also, I'm in love with the Progressive chick in the banner ad at the bottom of the page!

 

[C Jones]

To be more specific, they are a site for grabbing clicks, even at the expense of the reputation for well-meaning people (in this case, 5th Cell). A lot of sites don't do that.

I guess I just don't see it that way. To me it made 5th Cell's intentions quite clear, so I took no offense. It helped clear things up in terms of my perception of them rather than harm it.

 

[twinturbo2]

I'm only familiar with the wrestling term "sambo". I blame Blue Mary and that creepy Russkie in Tekken.

 

[C Jones]

Kotaku has edited the story and headline and a lot of people probably don't realise it happened. The edited version is quite reasonable to me. The original didn't seem as reasonable to a lot of people including me.

Ah ok, I understand. That makes sense, thanks.

 

[D4Danger]

Can we ban Kotaku now?

where do I sign?

 

[Wizman23]

So my favorite sports team lost last night and ESPN reported it. Should we ban ESPN too since they reported bad news in my eyes? Get the f outta here with that shit. If this were Bungie or any other "Gaf hated develpoer" the tone of this thread would be completely different. I said Bungie due to the constant trolling and Halo hate that usually springs up about the 5th post of every Halo related thread.

 

[dojokun]

I guess I just don't see it that way. To me it made 5th Cell's intentions quite clear, so I took no offense. It helped clear things up in terms of my perception of them rather than harm it.

But think of how many people out there that are offended by this, who wouldn't be offended if this article never came out.

 

[MirageDwarf]

In instances like this, ignoring a story -- one that was already on the Internet before we posted -- is not an option. What is an option is striving to get comment from the people involved. We held off publication until we did. It doesn't matter if I like Scribblenauts, like the folks from 5th Cell, visited their studio a couple of weeks ago, or any of that. If there's news, the reporter's obligation is to look into it.

I see there are disagreements about how widely known the word sambo is, how widely its racial connotations are known, about what information we included or didn't include in the story. But at the end of the day, we presented a story that I feel put the facts out there, explained the context, provided the needed explanation and ample defense from 5th Cell.

A reader who is thinking critically and whose heart and gut tell them that people at the development studio didn't intend any wrong will find plenty of facts in the story to support that.

This isn't a matter of what I want the story to include, but what we think the story needs to include, to be responsible and dispassionate, to focus on what we know and what we can back up. That was the goal and the service we hope to continue to provide to our readers.

This is really sad. You're defending this piece of shit sensationalist bullshit article that makes ridiculous claims out of nothing. Didn't expect you defending this.

 

[Epic Tier 3 Engineer]

If Anything, we should applaud 5th Cell for teaching us the true meaning of the word sambo. We're all a bit smarter for it.

 

[Zeliard]

I'm very surprised at the number of people who were not previously aware of the word's racial history. If you're out of the US, it's understandable, but presumably most people in this thread aren't.

 

[truly101]

So my favorite sports team lost last night and ESPN reported it. Should we ban ESPN too since they reported bad news in my eyes? Get the f outta here with that shit. If this were Bungie or any other "Gaf hated develpoer" the tone of this thread would be completely different. I said Bungie due to the constant trolling and Halo hate that usually springs up about the 5th post of every Halo related thread.

Its not what was reported, its how the issue was reported that has people mad at Kotaku. Nobody seems to have an issue with the Joystiq version because it comes across as neutral. Kotaku, not so much.

 

[alr1ght]

I'm very surprised at the number of people who were not previously aware of the word's racial history. If you're out of the US, it's understandable, but presumably most people in this thread aren't.

I can say that the only use of Sambo I've heard is a form of fighting developed in Russia. I also don't talk with tons of racists though.

 

[Monroeski]

Because the way they ran it, with an intentionally sensationalistic headline.

If you want to ban sites for using intentionally sensationalistic headlines, we would only be able to link to like 3 places on the entire internet.

 

[riskVSreward]

So my favorite sports team lost last night and ESPN reported it. Should we ban ESPN too since they reported bad news in my eyes? Get the f outta here with that shit. If this were Bungie or any other "Gaf hated develpoer" the tone of this thread would be completely different. I said Bungie due to the constant trolling and Halo hate that usually springs up about the 5th post of every Halo related thread.

That's the worst analogy in the history of GAF.

 

[C Jones]

But think of how many people out there that are offended by this, who wouldn't be offended if this article never came out.

First off let me say I'm talking about the article as it is now, not before it has been edited as some have pointed out.

I think you have it completely backwards. Again, had I discovered this on my own, I would've been quite confused and somewhat offended. Now that this has "blown up", we now have quotes from the dev explaining the logic behind the art. I had no idea this thing even existed before today. I just don't see how this story (again, as it's written right now on the site) harms them. They have a quote from the dev explaining the intent, so that goes a long way for me in terms of clearing up the air.

I just don't see how anyone reading the article comes away thinking that the devs have bad intentions.

 

[riskVSreward]

I can say that the only use of Sambo I've heard is a form of fighting developed in Russia. I also don't talk with tons of racists though.

It's as if even people who live in the US can't recognize it's own diversity and realize that some areas just don't have as much blatant racism as others.

Kotaku has edited the story and headline and a lot of people probably don't realise it happened. The edited version is quite reasonable to me. The original didn't seem as reasonable to a lot of people including me.

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been edited, but it is truly amazing at how they bend to GAF's will. Could Kotaku even exist with GAF?

 

[dojokun]

First off let me say I'm talking about the article as it is now, not before it has been edited as some have pointed out.

I think you have it completely backwards. Again, had I discovered this on my own, I would've been quite confused and somewhat offended. Now that this has "blown up", we now have quotes from the dev explaining the logic behind the art. I had no idea this thing even existed before today. I just don't see how this story (again, as it's written right now on the site) harms them. They have a quote from the dev explaining the intent, so that goes a long way for me in terms of clearing up the air.

I just don't see how anyone reading the article comes away thinking that the devs have bad intentions.

Regardless of whether or not people think the devs have bad intentions, there are people who now think the devs are "ignorant." The point is, the simple act of drawing attention to the issue makes it seem worse, because common sense says that if it's not a big deal, it doesn't deserve its own article. It's like shouting in public, "Johnny is not a racist!!!!" The people who hear you may have technically heard a sentence that makes a positive statement about Johnny, but the fact that you feel the need to say it implies there's something more than meets the eye (or ear). Thus, there is a cloud of suspicion drawn over Johnny's head.

 

[freddy]

I actually think a lot of people piling on Stephen Totillo should go back and read the article as it is now. The guy has been very good in the past and has edited the article after taking on board some of the criticisms. That in itself deserves a little respect.

This late bashing screams of the mob mentality.

 

[phisheep]

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been edited, but it is truly amazing at how they bend to GAF's will. Could Kotaku even exist with GAF?

It might not have been GAF. There were some very explicit criticisms on Kotaku itself (including some of mine). And they'd have got the same answer if they ran the piece past their lawyers as well.

 

[stuminus3]

I actually think a lot of people piling on Stephen Totillo should go back and read the article as it is now. The guy has been very good in the past and has edited the article after taking on board some of the criticisms. That in itself deserves a little respect. .

He shouldn't have fucking posted it in the first place. He knew what he was doing.

 

[C Jones]

I actually think a lot of people piling on Stephen Totillo should go back and read the article as it is now. The guy has been very good in the past and has edited the article after taking on board some of the criticisms. That in itself deserves a little respect.

This late bashing screams of the mob mentality.

This is really true. It's not the smear campaign some of you are making it out to be, at least in the state it's in now. I don't think anyone will be picketing 5th Cell folks.

 

[phisheep]

I actually think a lot of people piling on Stephen Totillo should go back and read the article as it is now. The guy has been very good in the past and has edited the article after taking on board some of the criticisms. That in itself deserves a little respect.

This late bashing screams of the mob mentality.

Agreed.

It would have been better if Stephen had not leapt quite so emphatically to the defensive stance to start with and paid attention sooner, but the corrective job has been done and done well.

And it should be a warning sign to Kotaku that they had three senior people writing on that article and still got it wrong. I hope the lesson is learned and that they have apologised to 5th Cell as well.

We really don't need to bang on about it any more here. There will still be some backlash of course, but only a tiny fraction of the backlash that 5th Cell would have got had the article remained unedited - can't say Kotaku don't deserve it.

 

[RedNumberFive]

He shouldn't have fucking posted it in the first place. He knew what he was doing.

.

He got his page views with his sensational story, so I suppose the time was right to finally be a responsible "journalist".

 

[Evlar]

No one has to ban it: I've been resolute in not clicking any Kotaku links for a good long while.

 

[stupei]

It's funny because gay means stupid and also homosexual!

 

[RedNumberFive]

No one has to ban it: I've been resolute in not clicking any Kotaku links for a good long while.

I've been doing this for quite some time. When it's not stories like this, most of Kotaku's content seems to be regurgitated press releases, booth babes, and Ashcraft's random musings about his life. Believe it or not I don't give a shit what he's up to each evening. To summarize, Kotaku is horrible, and I die a bit inside when GAF links to them.

 

[Dennis]

I can't believe I'm reading this crap from someone so obviously intelligent (and one of my favorite posters to boot).

You are demanding perfection from the people who work at 5th Cell. It would take a completely perfect creature with an eternity of development time to foresee every possible reaction and interpretation that any gamer in the world could draw from the items spawned in Scribblenauts. Human beings are not perfect.

This isn't about racism. This is about a completely insane and ass-backwards mindset a frightening number of supposedly intelligent people in America condone and encourage which goes: if someone (especially someone with a skin tone that is anything other than lily-white, which makes them a minority and also, apparently, a de facto "victim") feels offended by something, that person has been slighted and is entitled to an apology (at the very least). It doesn't matter if the thought process of the person taking offense is completely flawed and irrational. It doesn't matter if the the complaint is based on nothing at all. It doesn't matter if any offense was actually intended or foreseen, despite all efforts to foresee and squash problems.

It's total bullshit. This is what happens with irrational feelings are granted so much importance that they somehow trump logic and reality.

There are people in the world who think their feelings are so important, even an obviously false interpretation of a situation demands a fawning apology (and validation of a totally paranoid, frothing-at-the-mouth-crazy worldview). And you are defending them.

And the great evil of a mindset such as this is that it implies that a situation such as this cannot occur in which it was all a mistake, or a misunderstanding or a coincidence. It implies a person making such an accusation is infallible and has no burden of proof at all when bringing such accusations. It implies that everyone and everything in existence is suspect, even if one has no reason at all to suspect them. To condone this is to condone and perpetuate a knee-jerk mindset born of fear and ignorance.

For the people who are going to parrot the same irrational and tired "arguments": bigotry clearly does exist. It is not something we can "work past" as a species. It is a byproduct of genetic hard-wiring. It always has existed and it always will. It's a terrible thing, one of the worst aspects of humanity. In every case in which it is clearly present, it should be battled and discouraged to the best of our ability.

But taking offense at something does not mean the person taking offense has a valid case. Sometimes the party at fault is the one claiming to find fault in others.

I blame capitalism for this, partly. Any time someone cries racism, the people who want our money scramble to run damage control and appease possible customers. They don't care about truth. All they care about is their bottom line. The whiners are validated and know that next time, all they have to do is claim to take offense and they get their way. And the cycle continues. I will be very disappointed if 5th Cell bows to this pressure.

The above is a very long post, but Í am quoting it because it deserves to be read by as many as possible. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Korey]

I actually think a lot of people piling on Stephen Totillo should go back and read the article as it is now. The guy has been very good in the past and has edited the article after taking on board some of the criticisms. That in itself deserves a little respect.

This late bashing screams of the mob mentality.

It's very likely they went back and changed the headline and edited the article after the backlash they received.

 

[stupei]

Is that really the case?

I haven't read the entire thread (it's moving way too fast), but I don't get the feeling that a lot of people are actually offended by what's in the game. I see more people taking issue with the possibility that someone might be offended by it.

This. 100% this.

The majority of people offended have flat out said they take issue with the behavior on display in this thread, not the game or its designers.

 

[riskVSreward]

The above is a very long post, but Í am quoting it because it deserves to be read by as many as possible. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The race card is a helluva drug.

 

[C Jones]

The above is a very long post, but Í am quoting it because it deserves to be read by as many as possible. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Yikes.