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Been in Bulgaria for 2 days, Been called "Nigger" multiple times in the street
- Thread starter SirRattleBalls
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1.21Gigawatts
Banned
It also depends a lot on whether you are in an urban or rural area.
It unlikely you'll encounter these forms of racism in Berlin or Hamburg, but if you happen to come across some small rural town in east Germany...
Just based on their voting habits I'd say that 10-15% of the population there are racist to a degree where they would display it openly.
KraftyKrankins
Member
Братле, мисля че това е достатъчно голямо доказателство./That's a large enough proof there brother.
iMAGINATION
Banned
I've backpacked through Europe alone as a small black woman and it was completely fine. Stick to big cities and don't do stupid shit and you'll be completely fine. I'm more afraid of the south of US than eastern europe.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
And OP has heard that how many times? VS how many times has he heard just a simple "negger" (which would be basically 'a black guy' when used by common folks)?Братле, мисля че това е достатъчно голямо доказателство./That's a large enough proof there brother.
I'm well aware of the nuances of Bulgarian language myself.
I'm originally from Bulgaria and live in London and I'm ashamed of my country. When someone jokes 'hey I should go to a holiday in Bulgaria' my first reaction is DON'T. Just don't. The kind of ignorance that they breed over there is beyond anything anyone from a first world country can image.
Almost 80% of people under 25 leave the country. It has a very severe receding population and lack of young people in general. Because we grew up in the internet age and know better, the ones that stay, choose to stay in the ignorance, with some exceptions of course.
Almost 80% of people under 25 leave the country. It has a very severe receding population and lack of young people in general. Because we grew up in the internet age and know better, the ones that stay, choose to stay in the ignorance, with some exceptions of course.
Night Hunter
Banned
What?
Like, I'm not from Bulgaria, but I guess most racial slurs against Black people spoken in western languages derive from the latin word niger and not from an English word.
To clarify, the N-word is in fact the same in both languages (small change) because there are no black people in Bulgaria, therefore there has never been a need for the word. Older people wouldn't even think it's an offensive word, it's just the only word they know to describe a black person.
KraftyKrankins
Member
Dude, you know very well that if one of us were to say "negger negger negger" in Bulgarian to a black man that'd still be racist as hell. Same thing as someone saying "black black black" to someone in the west. A bit of a stupid example but you get my meaning
. It's the context that matters in this case.Lovely Salsa
Banned
Huh
Are you talking about mexico or southern states? If the latter, half of the population is black...
It seems like even if these people were calling the OP whatever it is Black people are referred to, Neger, that going around just calling people Black is strange. Hey Black, Black, come here. There goes Black. I mean at least in English we don't refer to people about their race unless there is a reason to. Come here Mexican, come here Black guy. It still comes across as racist.
Yeah, there's got to be reason why they are obsessed with it despite its notoriety though. When I am reminded of Japan's emphasis on racial purity and its attitudes towards immigration I am lead to believe that it is simply not about aesthetics, but also a tacit admiration for Nazism's master race concept.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
I don't think you have to worry about blatant racism in Asia like this. Maybe some strange looks, people who want to take pictures with you, kids who might want to rub your skin/hair and some older people who might shy away from you in the subway.
What the OP experienced is something completely different. I'd be afraid for my safety in an environment like that.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Sorry, but I disagree. Somebody calling a guy "negger" in Bulgarian could be anything from:Dude, you know very well that if one of us were to say "negger negger negger" in Bulgarian to a black man that'd still be racist as hell. Same thing as someone saying "black black black" to someone in the west. A bit of a stupid example but you get my meaning
a) Racist
b) Ignorant
c) Slow-to-realize it's inappropriate (as in '...Ohh, I just said negger in front of an actual black guy')
Yes, young, educated (and non-fascist/racist) Bulgarians tend to use 'black-colored', alas, not everybody is young, educated and non-racist around here. And some people are just slow to adjust their tongue. So while OP has definitely been subjected to openly racist slurs, let's not automatically assume every single time he hear the word "negger" was actually such a case.
HisImperialMajesty
Member
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Plenty of racism in what OP experienced. Now read again what I wrote.
[ed] Actually, here's a much more disturbing story, which happened to somebody much less fortunate than OP:
http://www.mediapool.bg/chernokozh-turist-be-prebit-v-tsentara-na-sofiya-news264014.html
Quick summary:
On may 18th, a black tourist guy was attacked while he was sightseeing in Sofia. After getting on his own to the nearby hospital (a taxi cab "politely" refused to take him) and getting treated for small injuries, he then had to wait for an hour at the local police station waiting for an interpreter to file a report.
FYI, none of the comments under the article show any approval for what happened to the guy. On the contrary, posters are disdained with the inadequate police reaction.
So yes, there's racism (and even neo-nazism) in Bulgaria, but Bulgarians are not a singular entity. Xenophobic accounts are not generally approved by the common folk, but they are much more concerned with the disfunctional/inefficient state apparatus (police, judicial system), than with individual cases of xenophobia/racism. Society is slowly getting there.
Actually, some of my Korean friends here have told me they've heard pretty shitty things from older peopleRelating to the discussion of Koreans' treatment in Japan, my Korean friend who grew up here changed his name a couple years ago to the most Japanese name I've ever heard, when he attained citizenship. Don't wanna say his full name, but his family name is now Tokyo (東京
Are you black/are you around black people much? If so, I'm surprised you haven't seen some bad shit.
You might be surprised to hear what my black friends have experienced here in Japan, then. Rarely is anything ever said straight to their faces, but I mean... it's Japan.
Super crazy. I saw two Japanese Neo Nazis two weekends ago. Guys had nice leather jackets with tons of pins. Saw a big iron cross, and I thought, "They probably don't know what that means." Then I saw a big swastica hanging from the side. "They... probably know." Then I realized they had the hitler youth haircut--both of them. Then I saw one had the imperial eagle on the back. Fucking upset me. Made me mad that they were flaunting that shit in public.
Why are there so many racist idiots everywhere?I've said this before, but as a Mexican in Japan, my experience has been 100% positive. I have yet to feel discriminated and whenever I get attention for not being Japanese, it's positive. So I guess it depends entirely on your ethnicity here... for better or worse, many Japanese people couldn't find Mexico on a map if you asked them to.
soundahfekz
Member
I'm having hard time understanding what you wrote. Are you saying that out of the blatant racist remarks OP experienced, some were said in ignorance? Or are you saying over time, a portion of racist remarks the OP could receive will not always be racist but could fall under the two other categories that you listed?
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Sorry that happened to you, OP. It sounds like you handled it well though.
BravesCountry
Banned
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
try nineties / early '00s, if the Norwegian usage is the same as the same spelling in Dutch (and I think German too).
As for the Dutch variety, It's fall from 'not a racist word' grace (it was, but people ignored that) is actually kind of interesting because it's probably a direct result of American media intersecting the meaning as 'absolutely fucking racist' causing its fall. But at the same time, now the American actual racist slur is kind of replacing the status of 'not a racist word', because its historical meaning wasn't transferred along with it (because no movie or other media work ever did), and worse, it's obviously used as a 'between us' word as well, which just adds further confusion when you know a word from a different language, but its (full, multiple) meaning is still a vacuum waiting to be filled.
The attitude that posters take in this thread towards how people learn meaning versus knowing a word is really a typical American thing of "our history is everybody's history and everybody speaks our language", which is unfortunately immediately visible in Trump's NATO visit. That is not reality. I mean, most Americans don't even speak, write or even understand the second language of the US: Spanish, when by comparison, almost everybody else on the planet knows two languages on average (this is a hyperbolic expectation, not an actual statistic, but feel free to look it up yourselves).
But questions about linguistics aside, we don't have to ask "was it meant to be racist" when people are shouting it at your face, in this case OP. That's not some random mistake in intent, and yeah, Eastern Europe is still a lot more openly racist than North-Western Europe is, but that's kind of expected given historical and economical circumstances as they are. Doesn't make it right, but to expect the same treatment there as back home was honestly a fallacious expectation from the start.
I'm sorry that had to be your experience though.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I guess I don't enjoy broadly-panted generalizaitons by otherwise intelligent posters. Particularly in cases where I happen to have a sufficiently close look at the details.
No, I'm saying the encounters OP had with the guy who "liked his country free.." and the group of kids by what OP originally thought to be the stadium was clearly hostile racism. The discussion that stemmed from that evolved into what "negger" means in Bulgarian. So there's a pretty good chance he might have heard it, or could even continue hearing it, in non-racist situations.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
It depends. Which countries have you visited so far and what have you liked the best?
Language is a very difficult problem. The word Neger (long e) was actually also in use for a very long time in German and older people are still using it. It was more something as negro, not the n word used in the US. Up until very recently the word Negerkuss was used in German language as well for a sweet dessert.
In Switzerland, parts of Austria and Germany still a lot of people call it Mohrenkopf, which means head of a Mohr. Mohr was used for almost 1000 years to describe somebody of color. It originated in old German and is connected to the Moors a muslim community from northern Africa.
This is changing because the world is getting more international, but in a lot of countries especially in Eastern Europe this will take some time, because to get the idea across, that a word people used for centuries is offensive to people they barley had contact with, that is hard to explain. But this is true for almost every country in Europe. When Clarkson hit his producer, he was also using the racial slurs the English were using for the Irish for a very long time and they are neighbors and even of the same skin color.
I know this is frustrating, but the will adept and understand it. But it will take time, as usual.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Then you might actually enjoy visiting Bulgaria - we have similarly green scenery and some excellent spirits. Just drop me a PM if you decide to actually visit - for one, it's better to do that with a guide, and two, these migrant times are not the safest for a lone tourist of color.
All you people jumping on CPP for his first post have probably never been to Europe. Some of the more isolated countries their population has no fucking clue what the n-word means. In the OP his case they absolutely did as they were trying to provoke him. But you have no idea how many time in bad English i heard some white older guy trying to be friendly in the middle of a broken English conversation say "yes, yes my nigga" then akwardly try to shake the black guys hand.
Do not underestimate how fucking clueless some people are. Especially in some backward countries like Bulgaria.
But yeah the people the OP described knew what they were saying.
Do not underestimate how fucking clueless some people are. Especially in some backward countries like Bulgaria.
But yeah the people the OP described knew what they were saying.
BotoxAgent
Member
Fuck those racist shit stains.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Which is why cpp's post was ridiculous. We weren't talking about some old clueless, awkward old Serbian guy saying "good day my nigga", the OP was clearly describing hostile, brazen, explicit racism. Soooo
All the movies I've seen where someone vacations to Eastern Europe involve drugs or murder...sometimes both in unrelated situations.
I don't really agree, I hear "Asians are the most racist people on earth" all the time.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Croatia is good. Like, croatia is where my journey eastwards ends, the rest is filled with countries Im not interested in.
I'd laugh at the incident in Bulgaria. I'd think to myself you should be proud that someone takes their time and money to visit this shitty country
I have no idea what the OP was thinking (or his gf in this case)
I'd say there's a high chance that no one would even know you're Native American. You could be from anywhere in Europe, and if you're perfectly fluent in English, well you'd just be another American
It's ok, mexican co workers visiting us frequently and none of them had any issues so far.
Just stick to tourist routes, if you don't speak hungarian.
Edit: keep in mind verbal insults in general don't taken seriously here - and people don't have guns, so you will be pretty safe
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Would they take offense if you called them buggers?
Well, I'm in the UK and it isn't really talked about. Perhaps it is different where you are.
The Albatross
Member
Even if it was 'negger' which is just the Bulgarian for black person or what have you, that's still fucked up to say... If a black person were walking by my house and I said, "I like my country free of black people" or if black people were walking by and I said, "hey blackie blackie blackie," I wouldn't be using a necessarily offensive word....... But it'd still be damn racist.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
As a Swede who lives in Bulgaria, I'm terribly sorry to hear what you went through.
Bulgarians have a lot of internal issues with poverty, lack of education and freedom in general (low salaries and a general balkan sense of hopelesness), but it's still not excusable.
Bulgarians have a lot of internal issues with poverty, lack of education and freedom in general (low salaries and a general balkan sense of hopelesness), but it's still not excusable.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Not excusable is an understatement. As a dual-nationality Bulgarian who lives in Bulgaria, we have to fix the problem at the root - namely fix the educational, legislative and police systems, before these lost generations of kids get the help they need. Or else.
That's good to hear.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Many Bulgarians just have a "mañana mañana" attitude to most things, since they in general have a lot of shit against them in general society. Most have to fight tooth and nail to get somewhere, so it's pretty understandable that they get in general really defensive when you, as a foreigner living cheaply in their country, tell them "You all need to change".
Not excusable though, but I've met a lot of people in my social circles who are more of the educated and progressive kind, who work with foreigners and who know what sucks about Bulgaria.
I'm 100% certain that if I bring this up during our smoke break tomorrow, all the Bulgarians will roll their eyes and say "Fucking Bulgarians".
One thing I noticed in the beginning since moving here, is that a lot of the generally nice, progressive and intelligent Bulgarians, tend to say "Yeah fuck Bulgarians".
Generalizations here, but y'know.
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