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[Bumblebeetuna]

So really, you think she should be able to say she is a lesbian anywhere BUT on a social gaming service? Also, please explain to me in what mediums it is needed and how they differ from a social gaming service. Could you also let me know what personal information is acceptable to you for gamers to place on their profiles.

:lol No, I didn't say she should be allowed to say it EVERYWHERE but on Live. There are plenty of online social avenues where letting everyone know you are a lesbian is not only acceptable but encouraged. A social gaming service as you put it, is not one of them. I don't think any personal information aside from maybe your first name and maybe where you live would be acceptable. Those things can be relevant to gaming with other people. Whether or not you prefer to date people of the opposite sex makes no difference in this environment and in most cases will just lead to harassment.

Again, I'm not talking about the TOS, I do not know what she wrote, and in any case MS do have the right to censor their data. I am referring to the other posters in this thread and elsewhere who say it is not acceptable for her to do it.

And again, how does the opinion that Xbox Live is not the place to let everyone know you are a lesbian logically get stretched out to imply that gay people should never ever display it to the public? It's a retarded leap to connect those two.

 

[fortified_concept]

Yeah it is hypocrisy... kinda of like damning people for being close minded about homosexuality while also blaming an entire country for a policy created by Microsoft. Good stuff. :lol

Whether you want to admit it or not, violence is always more socially acceptable than sex in USA.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

on a alternate note: why do people feel so compelled to be so chatty about personal life on Live anyways?

Why, years back, when I would play Yahoo Chess did practically everyone start off by asking A/S/L? Some people just want to play games against real people (i.e. not offline AI), while others like to feel a sense of community and who they're playing against, even if the information provided might be falsified.

 

[Jive Turkey]

That sounds suspiciously like something an AMERICAN would say. /:|

Uh...Uh...

O CANADA!
OUR HOME AND NATIVE LAND!
TRUE PATRIOT LOVE IN ALL THY SON'S COMMAND.
WITH GLOWING HEARTS WE SEE THEE RISE,
THE TRUE NORTH STRONG AND FREE!
FROM FAR AND WIDE, O CANADA,
WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE.
GOD KEEP OUR LAND GLORIOUS AND FREE!
O CANADA, WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE.
O CANADA, WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE.

 

[Dead Man Typing]

Are you taking masturbation out of the picture? Or are you claiming that masturbation is sad?

Yeah I'd say it's pretty sad. I'm never happy afterwards...

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Uh...Uh...

O CANADA!
OUR HOME AND NATIVE LAND!
TRUE PATRIOT LOVE IN ALL THY SON'S COMMAND.
WITH GLOWING HEARTS WE SEE THEE RISE,
THE TRUE NORTH STRONG AND FREE!
FROM FAR AND WIDE, O CANADA,
WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE.
GOD KEEP OUR LAND GLORIOUS AND FREE!
O CANADA, WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE.
O CANADA, WE STAND ON GUARD FOR THEE.

now do the french part

 

[SimpleDesign]

Yeah I'd say it's pretty sad. I'm never happy afterwards...

:lol

 

[gutter_trash]

you guys forget that you are dealing with the most unreasonable demographic there is. The teenage suburban male.
they are out to demonstrate territorial dominance, that is the nature of the teenage male trying to prove to be a tough adult (failing)

in real life, they would get beat up, they would get arrested, they would get suspended from school for unruly conduct.
but on LIVE, with a headset + anonymity: = this is the perfect place for the teenage males to flex his territorial pissing skills for dominance

+ when it comes to thoughtful conversations about social issues, politics or world events... you are dealing with the most generalist, prejudicial, ill-informed group.

Don't expect them to be UNDERSTANDING because they wont, they are teenage males educated in a dubbed down system.
expectations from this group should be kept low

 

[Interfectum]

Dude, I don't know where you live but I personally live in America and that's how it GENERALLY is around here.
Our culture stinks the "violence is more acceptable than sex". Don't be on denial if you're an american. It's simply how our society is and this comes from our puritanist roots. Wake the fuck up.

.

Obviously the age old American problem is, in terms of our mainstream media culture, violence is more acceptable than sex. But people blaming this MS policy on that 'problem' are barking up the wrong tree. MS banning that XBL tag has nothing to do with them being scared of "OMG TEH GAY" and more to do with their policy of keeping sexual content out of profiles due to problems with child predators.

This is a policy against sexual references in XBL profiles, not 360 games/content. More and more there has been sexual content / nudity coming to video games (GTA penis, Mass Effect sex, etc). There are also rated R movies (some of which feature sex and nudity) on XBL marketplace. So the argument of "MS allows violence but no sex on their system" is false because it's only in terms of XBL profiles.

 

[Jive Turkey]

now do the french part

Ô Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits.

Spoiler

Shamelessly copied and pasted from Wikipedia. :\

 

[fortified_concept]

Obviously the age old American problem is violence is more acceptable than sex. But people blaming this MS policy on that 'problem' are barking up the wrong tree. MS banning that XBL tag has nothing to do with them being scared of "OMG TEH GAY" and more to do with their policy of keeping sexual content out of profiles due to problems with child predators.

This is a policy against sexual references in XBL profiles, not 360 games/content. More and more there has been sexual content / nudity coming to video games (GTA penis, Mass Effect sex, etc). There are also rated R movies (some of which feature sex and nudity) on XBL marketplace. So the argument of "MS allows violence but no sex on their system" is false because it's only in terms of XBL profiles.

How on earth does mentioning on your profile that you're gay has anything to do with child predators? Please describe a situation where mentioning that you're gay in your profile can lead to child molestation.

And again my opinion on the urban myth of child predators lurking to molest your kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APlx9btTn8

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Don't expect them to be UNDERSTANDING because they wont, they are teenage males educated in a dubbed down system.
expectations from this group should be kept low

I think an important facet of this argument to consider though is that you have no choice but to deal with this demographic if you want to play games with other Xbox users online. I've seen people point to disagreements with other ToS agreements and argue that they're the law of the land. For instance, I'm sure people here have gotten banned for what the banned individual might deem to be an unfair policy. However, in such a case (and not to suck up to the adminstrators here), I would say "tough luck" and argue for their right to run this forum as they see fit. There are two reasons for that:

1. At this forum, we post here free of charge. Thus, it really doesn't make sense for me to send EvilLore a scathing PM notifying him that unless he changes the rules, I'm taking my business elsewhere. My 'business' simply involves me using up his server's bandwidth. If I was paying good money for my right to post here, I might actually have some ammo. As it stands, I really have nothing to complain about.

2. This isn't the only game in town. I think the mods are tyrants? Well, there's a plethora of other places where I can waste time chatting about games and other nonsense. With Live, there's no such luck. If I want to play Halo 3 against other users online, I HAVE to go through Live and I HAVE to pay to do so. Sure, I could buy a PC and use Steam, or I could buy a PS3 and go through PSN, but none of those options are going to allow me to play Halo. As such, I don't have a choice in the community I belong to.

 

[Interfectum]

How on earth does mentioning on your profile that you're gay has anything to do with child predators? Please describe a situation where mentioning that you're gay in your profile can lead to child molestation.

And again my opinion on the urban myth of child predators lurking to molest your kid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APlx9btTn8

It's a blanket policy. (ie no talk of ANY sex in XBL profiles)

That's fine that you believe child predators lurking around where children play (online and off) are an urban myth. But until MS lawyers believe the same (oh and also Nintendo's), there will be policies like this in place. Not an American thing, a corporate thing.

 

[badrockjones]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

 

[fortified_concept]

It's a blanket policy. (ie no talk of ANY sex in XBL profiles)

That's fine that you believe child predators lurking around where children play (online and off) are an urban myth. But until MS lawyers believe the same (oh and also Nintendo's), there will be policies like this in place. Not an American thing, a corporate thing.

So they ban anything sexual because of the tiny chance that a child predator might lurk on the service. Using your logic shouldn't we ban all violence too since there have been reported cases of lunatics killing people because of videogames?

 

[TiVo]

It is a gay issue but not really.

It is the fact that if enough people file complaints for whatever reason then Microsoft acts. Who decides what reason to override?
Let's say tons of people claim you cheat but you don't. They won't review on a case by case basis but I think if they just ban because if there is smoke there is fire.

 

[Vinci]

This thread was everything I thought it would be, and more.

 

[Interfectum]

So they ban anything sexual because of the tiny chance that a child predator might lurk on the service. Using your logic shouldn't we ban all violence too since there have been reported cases of lunatics killing people because of videogames?

Again you don't understand. You are trying to find hypocrisy where there is very little.

MS allows sexual content (that's not AO or XXX) on their system. They do not allow sexual content in the XBL profile system. They probably also don't allow violence in their XBL profile system (IE if you said in your profile "Im going to kill <insert name of a real person>" and you were reported, you will most likely be banned).

You are trying to correlate what content MS allows on their system to what they allow people to put in their profiles.

 

[JonathanEx]

because if there is smoke there is fire.

What if you have a smoke machine

 

[fortified_concept]

Again you don't understand. You are trying to find hypocrisy where there is very little.

MS allows sexual content (that's not AO or XXX) on their system. They do not allow sexual content in the XBL profile system. They probably also don't allow violence in their XBL profile system (IE if you said in your profile "Im going to kill <insert name of a real person>" and you were reported, you will most likely be banned).

You are trying to correlate what content MS allows on their system to what they allow people to put in their profiles.

What a terrible example. You're comparing mentioning that you're gay (sexual) with saying that you're gonna kill someone (violence). I'll just ignore it because even though you didn't mean to directly compare them it's still very stupid. A better example of violence would be mentioning that you killed [insert skilled user] 20 times in COD4 which btw would not get you banned.

 

[The_Joint]

So to get banned from Live all you have to do is put "I have sharp knees" in your profile?

 

[Grecco]

What a terrible example. You're comparing mentioning that you're gay (sexual) with saying that you're gonna kill someone (violence). I'll just ignore it because even though you didn't mean to directly compare them it's still very stupid. A better example of violence would be mentioning that you killed [insert skilled user] 20 times in COD4 which btw would not get you banned.

So you are comparing Fake Violence to real sex? instead of his comparison of real sex and real violence. How is his comparison worse and yours isnt?

 

[fortified_concept]

So you are comparing Fake Violence to real sex? instead of his comparison of real sex and real violence. How is his comparison worse and yours isnt?

Mentioning that you're gay isn't "real sex". She's wasn't describing how she was fingerfucking chicks she just mentioned something that defines her as a person which is just remotely linked to sex.

 

[SimpleDesign]

Mentioning that you're gay isn't "real sex". She's wasn't describing how she was fingerfucking chicks she just mentioned something that defines her as a person.

Because assholes find the word lesbian offensive, lesbians can't type how they like fingerfucking other chicks in their profile.

Society makes me sick.

Spoiler

I'm serious.

 

[Jive Turkey]

What if you have a smoke machine

Smoke machines don't actually make smoke.

Oh shit. Mind blown.

 

[Ranger X]

Sexual orientation have nothing to do with the dangers of sex predators anyways. If anything, mentionning your age and gender to begin with would be more harmful. Would you get banned for saying those things? I really doubt it.

.

 

[fortified_concept]

So to get banned from Live all you have to do is put "I have sharp knees" in your profile?

Or say that you're beautiful. Because being attractive -> people from the other gender want to have sex with you -> sex -> OMG THE CHILDREN!

 

[M.J. Doja]

So to get banned from Live all you have to do is put "I have sharp knees" in your profile?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Or say that you're beautiful. Because being attractive -> people from the other gender want to have sex with you -> sex -> OMG THE CHILDREN!

Jesus :lol

 

[Aurora]

I don't see anything wrong with the banning. Microsoft do not tolerate any kind of information on XBL that may prove controversial or otherwise provocative. Case closed.

All this talk about infringement of rights is utter bullshit. Your sexuality has absolutely no reason to be flashed around on your gamer profile, nor does any other personal information such as your political or religious views - it's really quite simple.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

All this talk about infringement of rights is utter bullshit. Your sexuality has absolutely no reason to be flashed around on your gamer profile, nor does any other personal information such as your political or religious views - it's really quite simple.

What needs to be flashed around on your profile?

 

[DNF]

I don't see anything wrong with the banning. Microsoft do not tolerate any kind of information on XBL that may prove controversial or otherwise provocative. Case closed.

All this talk about infringement of rights is utter bullshit. Your sexuality has absolutely no reason to be flashed around on your gamer profile, nor does any other personal information such as your political or religious views - it's really quite simple.

But as i understand other posts microsoft don't ban if someone implies on his/her profile is straight/hetero and that seems wrong for me.

 

[fortified_concept]

I don't see anything wrong with the banning. Microsoft do not tolerate any kind of information on XBL that may prove controversial or otherwise provocative. Case closed.

And who defines what's controversial or provocative? The rednecks who were stalking the girl because she was gay? Using that logic you shouldn't mention that you're black either because some stupid fuck might find it "controversial" and troll you.

All this talk about infringement of rights is utter bullshit. Your sexuality has absolutely no reason to be flashed around on your gamer profile, nor does any other personal information such as your political or religious views - it's really quite simple.

You're right! I don't want people's sexuality flashed in front of me. I demand the male/female question to be removed from Xbox Live, all avatars to become asexual and profiles indicating that you're male or female to be removed. Enough is enough with people practically throwing their sexuality at me through Xbox Live.

 

[dollartaco]

But as i understand other posts microsoft don't ban if someone implies on his/her profile is straight/hetero and that seems wrong for me.

That exactly why this is so wrong. If I can write in my profile that I like women, a lesbian should be able to do so as well. There's no valid argument against that other than some bullshit parsing.

 

[Llyranor]

That exactly why this is so wrong. If I can write in my profile that I like women, a lesbian should be able to do so as well. There's no valid argument against that other than some bullshit parsing.

Well, if they find you or many people report you. Which is exactly what happened to JonathanEX and his 'hetrosexual' status and his subsequent ban.

 

[TheFightingFish]

That exactly why this is so wrong. If I can write in my profile that I like women, a lesbian should be able to do so as well. There's no valid argument against that other than some bullshit parsing.

You guys do know that we already tested that in this thread. JonathanEx added Heterosexual to his profile, he was reported by someone in the thread and Microsoft gave him a one day ban. All his info says "Code of Conduct" now.

http://live.xbox.com/en-US/profile/profile.aspx?pp=0&GamerTag=JonathanEx

Not really sure if this resolves the issue, but yeah, they will ban you for saying you are heterosexual if you are reported.

 

[RSLAEV]

Ugh this thread... this fuuucking threeeeeaaaad!

So full of ignorance!


Welp I was on the fence about upgrading my account from silver to gold but I will never *ever* subrscribe to gold after this. Hell I'd get rid of the damn 360 if not for the fact that my friend has one and likes to bring games over. Who the hell do they think they are fooling "Some gamers are offended..." yet I wouldn't be able to log in and play for 5 minutes without getting hit left and right by N-Bombs.

Why try to market an expensive entertainment machine towards adults and then prohibit them from accurately describing themselves in their profile? If I'm a lesbian and after long last I find someone else who calls themselves a lesbian maybe I shoot that person a friend request and get to know them and start playing games online with them. Isn't that pretty much how you build a community?

 

[Llyranor]

Ugh this thread... this fuuucking threeeeeaaaad!

So full of ignorance!


Welp I was on the fence about upgrading my account from silver to gold but I will never *ever* subrscribe to gold after this. Hell I'd get rid of the damn 360 if not for the fact that my friend has one and likes to bring games over. Who the hell do they think they are fooling "Some gamers are offended..." yet I wouldn't be able to log in and play for 5 minutes without getting hit left and right by N-Bombs.

Why try to market an expensive entertainment machine towards adults and then prohibit them from accurately describing themselves in their profile? If I'm a lesbian and after long last I find someone else who calls themselves a lesbian maybe I shoot that person a friend request and get to know them and start playing games online with them. Isn't that pretty much how you build a community?

Yes, yes, that's a perfect example.

 

[Teknoman]

Ugh this thread... this fuuucking threeeeeaaaad!

So full of ignorance!


Welp I was on the fence about upgrading my account from silver to gold but I will never *ever* subrscribe to gold after this. Hell I'd get rid of the damn 360 if not for the fact that my friend has one and likes to bring games over. Who the hell do they think they are fooling "Some gamers are offended..." yet I wouldn't be able to log in and play for 5 minutes without getting hit left and right by N-Bombs.

Why try to market an expensive entertainment machine towards adults and then prohibit them from accurately describing themselves in their profile? If I'm a lesbian and after long last I find someone else who calls themselves a lesbian maybe I shoot that person a friend request and get to know them and start playing games online with them. Isn't that pretty much how you build a community?

Just like to say that every XBL game isnt filled with people throwing racial slurs and lame insults all over the place.

 

[RiskyChris]

I don't see anything wrong with the banning. Microsoft do not tolerate any kind of information on XBL that may prove controversial or otherwise provocative. Case closed.

All this talk about infringement of rights is utter bullshit. Your sexuality has absolutely no reason to be flashed around on your gamer profile, nor does any other personal information such as your political or religious views - it's really quite simple.

Oh, that's odd. What was with the election 2008 candidate gamerpics?

It's like... it's a social service...

 

[JessicaPadkin]

That exactly why this is so wrong. If I can write in my profile that I like women, a lesbian should be able to do so as well. There's no valid argument against that other than some bullshit parsing.

You know, I remember recently one of the write-ups in the Spotlight channel thingy actually contained text that referenced '...your girlfriend' in some way (i.e. implying the reader had a girlfriend. Probably very generous anyway considering most of the misfits on XBL). I distinctly remember moaning about it to the lucky people in my Party at the time.

So apparently it's okay for Microsoft to dictate your sexuality to you, you're just not allowed to talk about it yourself. Harsh...

 

[TheFightingFish]

Ugh this thread... this fuuucking threeeeeaaaad!
Why try to market an expensive entertainment machine towards adults and then prohibit them from accurately describing themselves in their profile? If I'm a lesbian and after long last I find someone else who calls themselves a lesbian maybe I shoot that person a friend request and get to know them and start playing games online with them. Isn't that pretty much how you build a community?

I actually think this would be a good usage of the already existing zones. Go ahead and use the existing "family" zone or create a "censored" zone or whatever and use that as the area to heavily enforce on GamerTags and Bios and whatnot. Then let everyone else in recreation or underground or whatever be under much looser policy (just remove obvious racial / sexual slurs or graphic sexual content). I know that some might be offended by gay or lesbian being terms that wouldn't fly in the censored zone but as long as they also censor straight, hetrosexual and whatever else in this zone and leave the rest free I think I'd be ok with this.

 

[SimpleDesign]

You know, I remember recently one of the write-ups in the Spotlight channel thingy actually contained text that referenced '...your girlfriend' in some way (i.e. implying the reader had a girlfriend. Probably very generous anyway considering most of the misfits on XBL). I distinctly remember moaning about it to the lucky people in my Party at the time.

So apparently it's okay for Microsoft to dictate your sexuality to you, you're just not allowed to talk about it yourself. Harsh...

Like I said earlier, they had a couple that met over Xbox Live and got married interviewed in the Spotlight or featured gamer thing before.

 

[fortified_concept]

Like I said earlier, they had a couple that met over Xbox Live and got married interviewed before.

Disgusting. Don't they know there are children on Xbox Live? It's offensive.

 

[myDingling]

on a alternate note: why do people feel so compelled to be so chatty about personal life on Live anyways?

15 year old males are not the age demographic that is keen on being sociable with anonymous onliners, 15 year old are the nastiest there be.

for co-op games, I understand communication and all but for competitive games... do you really want to be yelled at on the headset? (MUTE button when it guys haywire)

As expected this threadis full of much ignorance. Quite sad to read. But I would like to comment on the above kind of response:

STOP BLAMING THE VICTIM! "Why is she advertising her sexuality anyway?" Why are you letting off the bigots and ignorants off so easily? Yeah, maybe it was a misinformed decision to identify as lesbian on Xbox Live, or maybe it wasn't and she was willing to take on the flurry of stupidity that would flood her as a result. In any case, it does not excuse the awful people who are making these comments and making other gamers feel awful.

They're the ones causing the hate crime so why isn't Microsoft banning them? "Oh because there's just too many." Well sounds like a pretty easy task to me, if there's so many. Shooting fish in a barrel. Send a Microsoft Rep into any game, have him/her listen in for 5min and bam you have a banning! It would be easy to do but Microsoft doesn't want to persecute its immature, ignorant base. Instead it will appease all the little backwater, 15 year old boys and ban the word "lesbian" so that all the little boys will be happy and pure for the child predator creeping in around the corner.

This shit's unexcusable and M$ better be feeling the heat and amending their policies soon.

 

[Teknoman]

English police are going to show up soon and attack people about the use of the word ignorant, I just know it :lol

 

[Llyranor]

Yeah, freaking M$.

 

[Mr. Durden]

But why does she need to put it in her profile? I'm not putting in my profile "Hey, I'm straight" either. There's no need to

 

[Shoogoo]

Just like to say that every XBL game isnt filled with people throwing racial slurs and lame insults all over the place.

Are you sure? Because I just come back from a Geow2 game and someone said out of nowhere 'Shoogoo is poopoo ass shit'

 

[Raiden]

Tbh, this is just some numbnuts response on his workday to another complaining XBL member. Im pretty sure this would not be stated as an Microsoft opinion.