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Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship

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Politico changed the title to the much less damning 'Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point 'scholarship' but never applied'

They really blew this story
 
All of my Facebook conservative military buddies are furious with him. Vets take that stolen valor thing pretty seriously. I know he never claimed to have served, but this is close enough for a lot of people.
 
worst thing that happened to carson is him being at the top of polls. that just made people want to dig into his past which might not have happened had he remained 4th or 5th.
 
I'm sure this joke has already been made but we need the long form acceptance letter...why aren't Republicans calling for it?!
 
I feel like Wesley Lowery has the gist of what happened here.

Wesley Lowery ‏@WesleyLowery 4h4 hours ago
1. Carson has misrepresented parts of West Point thing 2. Politico's headline/lede overstated the misrepresentation

In the short term, this is meaningless, and Politico fucking up makes the entire thing dodgy.

However, Ben Carson is a fucking liar, and should be called out on that repeatedly. Nobody's likely to bring up his association with that snake oil shit he was peddling again due to the last debate. The remainder of the republican debates are going to be softballs.
 
animlboogy said:
Was he recommended and offered admission or not?
Click to expand...

no.

and he claims to have met a general who recommended that he go there on a date when the general was halfway across the country in washington.

the entire story is BS, but this shouldn't be a surprise given the track record carson has about saying completely insane things.
 
Yeah, gotta say, I'm with Benji here. I was too eager to get excited about this, but I can't say this looks like much. I mean, hell, it could still crush him, because you never know, but it does seem like a pretty bullshit controversy all in all.
 
EskimoJoe said:
Yeah, gotta say, I'm with Benji here. I was too eager to get excited about this, but I can't say this looks like much. I mean, hell, it could still crush him, because you never know, but it does seem like a pretty bullshit controversy all in all.
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You mean that even though he lied several times about meeting a specific general, and them rolling out the red carpet for him to go to West Point, all to make himself sound better, that doesn't count because someone screwed up the headline to say he actually applied?

Despite Carson's repeated detailed accounts about it being Westmoreland, and that he was specifically offered a "full scholarship", the excuses I've heard are "he just got confused about who he met" and "he meant that they said he would have an easy time getting in." Which is not what he said, and he's since doubled-down on his statements being true. Even when Westmoreland's people say that he wasn't in the area at the time.

This is clearly a lie intended to make him look better, one he's been making for over 20 years now. How is that a bullshit controversy?
 
Azure Dream said:
You mean that even though he lied several times about meeting a specific general, and them rolling out the red carpet for him to go to West Point, all to make himself sound better, that doesn't count because someone screwed up the headline to say he actually applied?

Despite Carson's repeated detailed accounts about it being Westmoreland, and that he was specifically offered a "full scholarship", the excuses I've heard are "he just got confused about who he met" and "he meant that they said he would have an easy time getting in." Which is not what he said, and he's since doubled-down on his statements being true. Even when Westmoreland's people say that he wasn't in the area at the time.

This is clearly a lie intended to make him look better, one he's been making for over 20 years now. How is that a bullshit controversy?
Click to expand...

Yep, exactly this. He's a big time opportunistic liar, and this is only the latest example of that. Simply put Carson is extremely untrustworthy and you can't take anything he says seriously. Not stories from his past, not excerpts from his book, and certainly not his very loosely outlined stances on policies which seem to change with every debate question. He is either just on a huge book tour for himself or trying really hard to bluff his way into the oval office.

Ironically Trump really isn't much different, only more practiced at the lying game.
 
Yup, Benjipwns is correct. This is what I said in the Ben Carson OT:

RustyNails said:
Wait I'm confused. Ben Carson says in his memoire that he was offered a scholarship into westpoint. But he refused, in order to pursue a medical career. Isn't that consistent with Politico's findings, that he never went to westpoint? If the point of contention is that Gen Westmoreland offered him a scholarship and he turned it down, then he might get away with it. Because Westmoreland is dead and no one can corroborate his story. He might as well say Westmoreland showed him a dick pic.
Click to expand...

There is no way of verifying what Westmoreland said to Carson. Maybe he said "apply to Westpoint and I'll make sure you're taken care of". It could be a many different things, and Politico blew it's load on something that Carson can easily and quite reasonably give an excuse for.
 
RustyNails said:
There is no way of verifying what Westmoreland said to Carson. Maybe he said "apply to Westpoint and I'll make sure you're taken care of". It could be a many different things, and Politico blew it's load on something that Carson can easily and quite reasonably give an excuse for.
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If Westmoreland wasn't actually there at the time, as his people say, then you can certainly know what he said to Carson, which is nothing.

Unless Carson talked to him over the phone, but describes that as meeting Face-to-Face. You can keep making up reasons why Carson could "sort of" be right in what he said, but the matter is that the way he's been telling this story about Westmoreland rolling out the red carpet for him to go to West Point is, apparently, provably false. Westmoreland can't have said it to Carson if Westmoreland wasn't even there to begin with.
 
Azure Dream said:
If Westmoreland wasn't actually there at the time, as his people say, then you can certainly know what he said to Carson, which is nothing.

Unless Carson talked to him over the phone, but describes that as meeting Face-to-Face. You can keep making up reasons why Carson could "sort of" be right in what he said, but the matter is that the way he's been telling this story about Westmoreland rolling out the red carpet for him to go to West Point is, apparently, provably false. Westmoreland can't have said it to Carson if Westmoreland wasn't even there to begin with.
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Again, you're thinking from an objective, rational perspective. Dates are something you can fudge. Truth can be adjusted. Ben Carson's response will be "This was 50 years ago! So what if I got the place and time wrong. Are you calling me a liar? Are you calling General Westmoreland a liar? Why do you hate America?"
 
I know this is cliche, but if this was on the other side, Republicans would have a field day. Lying about getting a full ride to West Point?

I'll never understand why people can't accept faults with someone they support regardless of party.
 
RustyNails said:
Again, you're thinking from an objective, rational perspective. Dates are something you can fudge. Truth can be adjusted. Ben Carson's response will be "This was 50 years ago! So what if I got the place and time wrong. Are you calling me a liar? Are you calling General Westmoreland a liar? Why do you hate America?"
Click to expand...

Basically. It's not that I think Ben Carson isn't a liar. It's that this is a lie that can easily be pivoted into something he remembered poorly, and is partly correct, and the media, and honest, and focus on the issues. There are probably better ways to get this guy. He's gonna slip out of this one because in the end, it's not that conclusive, and it's not really that significant. I mean, everyone lies. People lie to make themselves look good. Especially politicians. So his supporters aren't gonna give a shit. At best, this is just another brick in the "Ben Carson is crazy" wall, but it's not gonna crush him.
 
the casualty in all this will be politico. not Ben Carson. Ben Carson will never go beyond a certain point, but Politico shot itself in the foot.

RW media is all over politico

Politico Admits Fabricating A Hit Piece On Ben Carson
The Federalist-14 hours ago
Where Politico's Ben Carson 'scoop' went wrong
CNNMoney-14 hours ago
Politico, CNN and the struggle over Ben Carson's credibility
Blog-Baltimore Sun (blog)-15 hours ago
Politico Changes Headline On Carson Story, Pretends It Didn't
Daily Caller - ‎16 hours ago‎
Carson: Politico Story 'Total Fabrication,' Never Claimed I Applied to West Point
Breitbart News - ‎16 hours ago‎
Politico Tried To Destroy Ben Carson, But It's Backfiring In A HUGE Way
Western Journalism - ‎14 hours ago‎
Did Ben Carson Really Admit He 'Fabricated' West Point Scholarship? (Spoilers: No)
Mediaite - ‎18 hours ago‎
 
HUELEN10 said:
He's still one of my picks, nothing's come up to change that. I don't have to personally like whom a vote for, I vote for whomever will benefit me the most, and hurt others the least regardless of party, and if there's something on the ballot I am not learned enough on, I simply do not vote on that thing instead of making a half-assed vote.

But yeah, this guy's been killing it lately (with insanity that is). The Pyramids to store grain. I know that wheat was found in one and was found to be still alive as seeds (learned it in Bill Nye as a kid), but to think that pyramids were granaries is insane.
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In Civ2 they were totally granaries.
 
Politico and liberals are going to take the L here. Just accept it now and move on. The story always had enough vagueness where the Carson camp could (and did) deny any falsehoods.

But in the end, none of this matters. Why? Because Carson isn't a serious candidate. He just wants to sell books and speeches.

Save your angst for Rubio.
 
Ben Carson's lies are juuuuust obtuse enough, so he goes with plausible deniability. Apparently this is enough to not only appease people (mostly because of Politico's overzealous framing of the issue). but there are actually some who are actively defending his questionable story.

Guess he's real GOP presidential material after all! :p

The strained defense comes across as a superficial attempt at being "evenhanded" even though he has given contradictory versions which point towards distortion at best, and flat out opportunistic fabrication at the the worst. And the cherry on top is that this is ultimately just a further confirmation of Ben Carson's ongoing habit of giving, shall we say, idiosyncratic narratives.

Politico deserves to be taken to task for leading with the most salacious interpretation, but their journalistic shark jumping doesn't really exonerate Carson. He didn't have a problem citing this whole thing publicly as a sort of notch on his belt, but when he's taken to task all the suddenly oh gosh he's a victim and gee whiz it was so long ago who can recall? Sure thing.
 
Maninthemirror said:
the casualty in all this will be politico. not Ben Carson. Ben Carson will never go beyond a certain point, but Politico shot itself in the foot.

RW media is all over politico

Politico Admits Fabricating A Hit Piece On Ben Carson
The Federalist-14 hours ago
Where Politico's Ben Carson 'scoop' went wrong
CNNMoney-14 hours ago
Politico, CNN and the struggle over Ben Carson's credibility
Blog-Baltimore Sun (blog)-15 hours ago
Politico Changes Headline On Carson Story, Pretends It Didn't
Daily Caller - ‎16 hours ago‎
Carson: Politico Story 'Total Fabrication,' Never Claimed I Applied to West Point
Breitbart News - ‎16 hours ago‎
Politico Tried To Destroy Ben Carson, But It's Backfiring In A HUGE Way
Western Journalism - ‎14 hours ago‎
Did Ben Carson Really Admit He 'Fabricated' West Point Scholarship? (Spoilers: No)
Mediaite - ‎18 hours ago‎
Click to expand...

LosDaddie said:
Politico and liberals are going to take the L here. Just accept it now and move on. The story always had enough vagueness where the Carson camp could (and did) deny any falsehoods.

But in the end, none of this matters. Why? Because Carson isn't a serious candidate. He just wants to sell books and speeches.

Save your angst for Rubio.
Click to expand...

I can't believe he's going to get away with it.

GrotesqueBeauty said:
Ben Carson's lies are juuuuust obtuse enough, so he goes with plausible deniability. Apparently this is enough to not only appease people (mostly because of Politico's overzealous framing of the issue). but there are actually some who are actively defending his questionable story.

The strained defense comes across as a superficial attempt at being "evenhanded" even though he has given contradictory versions which point towards distortion at best, and flat out opportunistic fabrication at the the worst. And the cherry on top is that this is ultimately just a further confirmation of Ben Carson's ongoing habit of giving, shall we say, idiosyncratic narratives.

Politico deserves to be taken to task for leading with the most salacious interpretation, but their journalistic shark jumping doesn't really exonerate Carson. He didn't have a problem citing this whole thing publicly as a sort of notch on his belt, but when he's taken to task all the suddenly oh gosh he's a victim and gee whiz it was so long ago who can recall? Sure thing.
Click to expand...

The problem, which Carson supporters can't seem to understand, is that this situation undermines his credibility. The point this story made, when it was believed to be true, was that he was so charismatic that he was able to convince General Westmoreland to give him a full ride to West Point after talking with him for a short time. It was one of the centerpieces of his character story, that everyone who meets Carson is impressed by his God-given charisma and other abilities.

Now that we know it was an exaggeration and that Carson's meeting with Westmoreland may not have occurred as described, that aspect of his character story falls apart. Instead of reflecting and realizing that, his supporters have chosen to circle the wagons over how Politico framed the article. Carson's supporters are as obtuse as his lies.
 
Lots of "but Hillary LIED about taking sniper fire in Bosnia!!!" from callers on conservative radio. They keep making a mistake and call Bosnia "Benghazi" though, lol.
 
teruterubozu said:
Lots of "but Hillary LIED about taking sniper fire in Bosnia!!!" from callers on conservative radio. They keep making a mistake and call Bosnia "Benghazi" though, lol.
Click to expand...

There are people who believe she was in Benghazi during the embassy attack and people died because the security detail has to save her.
 
If republicans held their own candidates to 1/4 the standards they have for Hillary, no one would be left. The skewing of reason and logic in this thread by some to make a complete nutjob, borderline pathological liar, save a tiny bit of face is ridiculous. If you try to cover yourself in military valor through lies, fuck off. You don't think a doctor knows how to use the word "scholarship" correctly? Maybe Bill Clinton thought Monica's mouth was Hillary's. It is such an honest mistake to make. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go finish filling up my pyramids with grain for the winter.
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
I know this is cliche, but if this was on the other side, Republicans would have a field day. Lying about getting a full ride to West Point?

I'll never understand why people can't accept faults with someone they support regardless of party.
Click to expand...
The comments in that wsj article are brutal. The sheer amount of "but Obama!" And "but Hillary!" is staggering.
 
LosDaddie said:
Politico and liberals are going to take the L here. Just accept it now and move on. The story always had enough vagueness where the Carson camp could (and did) deny any falsehoods.

But in the end, none of this matters. Why? Because Carson isn't a serious candidate. He just wants to sell books and speeches.

Save your angst for Rubio.
Click to expand...


There is no reason for me to lower myself to the ludicrous standards of "truth" which are now part and parcel of right wing propaganda.
 
exmachina64 said:
I can't believe he's going to get away with it.



The problem, which Carson supporters can't seem to understand, is that this situation undermines his credibility. The point this story made, when it was believed to be true, was that he was so charismatic that he was able to convince General Westmoreland to give him a full ride to West Point after talking with him for a short time. It was one of the centerpieces of his character story, that everyone who meets Carson is impressed by his God-given charisma and other abilities.

Now that we know it was an exaggeration and that Carson's meeting with Westmoreland may not have occurred as described, that aspect of his character story falls apart. Instead of reflecting and realizing that, his supporters have chosen to circle the wagons over how Politico framed the article. Carson's supporters are as obtuse as his lies.
Click to expand...

I'm a supporter ?
 
exmachina64 said:
I can't believe he's going to get away with it.



The problem, which Carson supporters can't seem to understand, is that this situation undermines his credibility. The point this story made, when it was believed to be true, was that he was so charismatic that he was able to convince General Westmoreland to give him a full ride to West Point after talking with him for a short time. It was one of the centerpieces of his character story, that everyone who meets Carson is impressed by his God-given charisma and other abilities.

Now that we know it was an exaggeration and that Carson's meeting with Westmoreland may not have occurred as described, that aspect of his character story falls apart. Instead of reflecting and realizing that, his supporters have chosen to circle the wagons over how Politico framed the article. Carson's supporters are as obtuse as his lies.
Click to expand...
He's not going to get away with it, this is going to be a major plus to his campaign. He may have made the whole thing up or he may have met Westmoreland on a different date and was offered sponsorship for a place at West Point, which he turned down. I doubt we will ever know, but there is enough plausibility to the story for it to be accepted.
 
Order said:
It still blows my mind that I had to read this asshole's book when I was younger
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It is a required class reading at my school, and the teachers talk to all the minority students like they need to be following in his example. The guy is basically a saint here.
 
Beelzebufo said:
This guy really is the biggest idiot in the world. And he's less charismatic than Trump! How is he even above Bobby Jindal?
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Because he actually has more charisma than Jindal. Also, Jindal is not an outsider.

aeolist said:
update: coworker sarcastically claims i'm racist for not liking carson. this is apparently karmic payback for other unknown parties calling him racist for not liking obama.
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I knew this was coming.

Revolver said:
Maybe. But there's a clear pattern of falsehoods and outright lies coming from Carson that's going to be difficult to just wave away. Blood is in the water now and crying "liberal media" and "gotcha questions" will only stall for so long.

Trump needs to get his birther Hawaii 5-0 team of detectives on the case of the missing secretary. That story troubles me more than any of Carson's other tall tales.
Click to expand...

It shouldn't be too difficult to search employee records and find out the name of the secretary. Assuming she hasn't changed her name and headed out of the country, people can track her down.

I posit that she overheard Dr. Carson's prayer and decided to get while the getting was good.
 
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