Support NeoGAF

[Karsticles]

The last time we elected a guy with very little foreign policy experience, it kinda uh...led to the worst foreign policy decision in American history and destabilized an entire region of the world for years, if not potentially decades.

But who cares about little stuff like that, right?

Except Sanders is one of the few to vote against the Iraq War, and Clinton voted in favor of it.

But who cares about little stuff like that, right?

 

[zer0das]

I'd rather someone admit they don't know something than make up a bunch of lies. What exactly do you want him to say? "I know exactly what the problem is and we're going to get involved in a dubious military intervention that will probably makes things worse?"

 

[Irnbru]

Yeah my mom was telling me this was a terrible look. Hispanics issues matter too, a lot of us are still pretty connected and prideful of our homes even if they are broken. But hey, lack of substance is nothing new I guess.

Except Sanders is one of the few to vote against the Iraq War, and Clinton voted in favor of it.

But who cares about little stuff like that, right?

And hey sanders forgets about his anti war convictions when it profits him!

But who cares about little stuff like that, right?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

What was so horrible about GHWB's foreign policy? I lived through it, but I don't seriously remember anything awful. He had the smarts to get out of Kuwait /Iraq when the job was done, and although I was against our involvement at the time, seems like a textbook case of successful intervention.

He didn't, actually. The maintenance of the no-fly-zone had to be a coalition of the willing rather than a Security Council sanctioned mission like Operation Desert Storm, and was a huge waste of American political capital given the prior political unison associated with the defence of Kuwait. A lot of people cite this abuse of Resolution 688 as part of the reason that the Security Council co-operation for Kuwait ended up not being possible for Iraq later, as both Russia and China ended up being alienated by what was close to a unilateral display of power. There's also the failure of American efforts with UNOSOM, although in some fairness that's shared with Mr. Clinton (who has a surprisingly terrible foreign policy record that goes weirdly uncommented on).

Oddly, the best American president of the last four decades or so with respect to foreign policy was probably Obama, who had the least exposure to it.

 

[B-Dubs]

What you want is someone with a good conceptual grasp of foreign policy analysis, such that once presented with relevant facts, they can come to good conclusions. I have no idea if Sanders would be good at this, in the same way in 2008 I had no idea if Obama would be good at this. The best you can do is hope they will. Clinton, on the other hand, has quite a long track record of being rather mediocre at this, ranging from her misadventures in Iraq to Egypt to Libya, and she's not viewed favourably in China having been one of the architects in the emphasis on the Pacific pivot. She had some successes - Burma is notable - but I certainly don't think she'll be classified as one of history's better secretary of states, and more towards the middle of the road.

The problem is that I don't think Bernie would be as good at it as Obama. Obama has this intellectual curiosity that Bernie doesn't have. When the financial crisis was going down in the middle of his 08 campaign he studied his ass off in an attempt to understand it and what he could do about it. Bernie doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would, or is, doing that sort of thing. If he were that sort of guy he'd be able to answer the question, even if it's only on a basic level.

 

[dramatis]

I'd rather someone admit they don't know something than make up a bunch of lies. What exactly do you want him to say? "I know exactly what the problem is and we're going to get involved in a dubious military intervention that probably makes things worse?"

I'd like someone to admit that he has no chance of winning the Democratic primary either, but hey, ignorance abounds everywhere inside Sanders's head. I guess if he can't do basic math he can hardly navigate foreign relations that he never bothered to prep or learn about before going on Univision trying to snag publicity and votes.

 

[Arkeband]

Are you, uh, implying that it's better to be unable to give a detailed answer because that answer might be boring to stupid people?

The underlying point is her foreign affairs experience is riddled with "what-not-to-do"'s, so if that's the experience you want, and want to continue having, then praise away.

Her answers in regards to foreign affairs that I've listened to seem carefully engineered to be long-winded and over-specific to provide the surface-level impression not only that she knows what she's talking about, but that by padding her answer, it will sound more valuable than her debate opponent's. Just because an answer is loquacious does not mean that it's worthy.

I do however appreciate her answers over any given Republican's, which is usually some combination of "nuke them to death" and "obama is weak", and while I'd appreciate if Bernie was knowledgable about everything, having the guts to admit a lack of knowledge is something rather unique among politicians.

It's Arkeband, so he's probably implying it's better to be unable to give a detailed answer than it is to be Hillary Clinton.

Don't pigeon-hole me like that, I'll be unenthusiastically voting for her in lieu of a better candidate like I'm sure a great deal of America will be. My Bernie-centric posts have mostly been to dispel FUD from the other side.

 

[Horns]

He has limited talking points that he can handle. Outside of them, he doesn't always shine. He's been a politician for 30 years so I don't see why he struggles.

 

[Mael]

I am 90% sure Bush Sr. was very popular outside the US. The first Iraq War was not unpopular around the world. Hell, I remember it was Bill Clinton people are scared of outside the US, him threatening international trade and all during the campaign. Foreign Policy wasn't what tank the first Bush iirc

Very popular is overselling it.
He wasn't hated.
Non of the US president were that hated except fucking Bush Jr.
If you didn't live in a country directly in conflict (commercial or the usual kind) with the US most people thought of US presidents as elected officials from a foreign country.
Dear god Bush Jr did a number on US foreign relations.
Seriously Clinton is not in way widely hated.
Heck in the EU the only negative position you could find against the US prior to Bush is basically that they try to much to interfere with internal EU stuffs.

 

[DOWN]

This is what people like about Bernie Sanders.

Obviously he should have been a bit more prepared.
But given two people who are unprepared, one says, "I don't know, but I should know" sounds better than the potential alternative. An alternative that sounds like it wants to be informed but it's like a book report written from the summary on the back of the book.

Like Trump when he's talking about Abe Lincoln:


I'd rather him be honest with his knowledge shortcomings than hear a response like that. Some more well versed politicians can clean up that answer better. But it doesn't really have any more substance.

Trying this hard to undermine someone being more knowledgeable than their competitor looks super desperate

 

[aeolist]

i can't say i'm particularly knowledgeable either, but aren't the problems in venezuela et al pretty much their own fault at this point?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The problem is that I don't think Bernie would be as good at it as Obama. Obama has this intellectual curiosity that Bernie doesn't have. When the financial crisis was going down in the middle of his 08 campaign he studied his ass off in an attempt to understand it and what he could do about it. Bernie doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would, or is, doing that sort of thing. If he were that sort of guy he'd be able to answer the question, even if it's only on a basic level.

I'm inclined to agree that Sanders wouldn't be as good at it as Obama, but Obama isn't the point of comparison, Clinton is.

EDIT: I mean, Obama was a really great President. Plausibly the best post-war US president, excluding maybe Johnson.

 

[Azzanadra]

So about the violence in Central America...

Look, here's the truth! It's about the millionaires and the billionaires....

I don't think it would be a lie to say income inequality is a cause of violence...

 

[Irnbru]

The underlying point is her foreign affairs experience is riddled with "what-not-to-do"'s, so if that's the experience you want, and want to continue having, then praise away.

Her answers in regards to foreign affairs that I've listened to seem carefully engineered to be long-winded and over-specific to provide the surface-level impression not only that she knows what she's talking about, but that by padding her answer, it will sound more valuable than her debate opponent's. Just because an answer is loquacious does not mean that it's worthy.

I do however appreciate her answers over any given Republican's, which is usually some combination of "nuke them to death" and "obama is weak", and while I'd appreciate if Bernie was knowledgable about everything, having the guts to admit a lack of knowledge is something rather unique among politicians.

I guess it's really hard to pick up a newspaper and read the foreign affairs section and know some semblance of the issues that affect the homelands of a significant population of the US people. If he doesn't want to give a shit about Hispanics it's all gravy, there's a reason he's not winning our vote.

 

[DOWN]

The underlying point is her foreign affairs experience is riddled with "what-not-to-do"'s, so if that's the experience you want, and want to continue having, then praise away.

Elaborate on this because I'm pretty sure there's only like two things I heard during her tenure that get scrutinized and neither proving worthy of any sort of discipline or firing

 

[Mael]

I don't think it would be a lie to say income inequality is a cause of violence...

So your point is that the US should intervene in Latin America's internal affairs to make sure wealth redistribution is fair?

 

[Koomaster]

Does the man know anything other than his stump speech, just curious. He's a tape recorder at this point. Bernard is complete garbage but the kids like him because he's promised them free candy. The man knows nothing and probably isn't even fit to clean Hillary's shoes without linking it to Wall Street somehow. So glad when this is over and he goes back to being irrelevant. Probably time for him to retire.

 

[royalan]

Really doesn't matter at this stage of the game, despite how damning it is. Just goes to show that, as a candidate, Bernie's really no more than a sloganeer. A protest candidate. And once you get past that and try to get deeper with him, there's no substance. No policy. And no intellectual curiosity with which to develop these things. He's just running for President of the United States, after all.

I mean, he's been hitting Hillary Clinton for months on "REGIME CHANGE!!!!!one!!1eleven" in Latin America. Well, you'd think he'd know something about what was going on in these countries if he's going to use them as an attack line.

 

[Formless]

I'd still vote for him in the general but it's just unfortunate how he speaks sometimes. He doesnt know how to adapt or provide more context to his points, and this shows his lack of breadth of knowledge about the world.

 

[RustyNails]

BERNIE.

The host was asking about the collapse of a socialist state, something that SHOULD be of interest to Bernie given his views. Him not being able to formulate an answer tells me he has blinders on.

 

[Azzanadra]

So your point is that the US should intervene in Latin America's internal affairs to make sure wealth redistribution is fair?

I just pointed out income inequality is a cause of violence. Where did I state or imply that the US should do anything or intervene?

 

[Maxim726X]

I'd still vote for him in the general but it's just unfortunate how he speaks sometimes. He doesnt know how to adapt or provide more context to his points, and this shows his lack of breadth of knowledge about the world.

Despite how much I've come to detest him as a candidate, I would still easily vote for him over Trump.

However, that isn't going to be the match-up... Unless you're implying that you would vote for him if he ran 3rd party. I hope people can understand how damaging that would be.

 

[iammeiam]

BERNIE.

The host was asking about the collapse of a socialist state, something that SHOULD be of interest to Bernie given his views. Him not being able to formulate an answer tells me he has blinders on.

This is what trips me up--him not knowing the details of every political issue worldwide is one thing; it's another more surprising thing that he had _nothing_ prepped for explaining how Venezuela's failing state isn't a real representation of the socialism he supports. This should be on the shortlist of things he is prepped for.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Candidate gives honest answer rather than bullshitting his way through it. Refreshing.

 

[Squalor]

Candidate gives honest answer rather than bullshitting his way through it. Refreshing.

Candidate should have been prepared in the first place.

Candidate is still bullshitting.

More at 11.

 

[The Technomancer]

Weird thing to say, cause during her interviews and town hall she goes pretty in depth.

Psssh don't you know that answering questions in "depth" is just a recycling of "words" and "catchphrases" designed to make her look "informed"

We don't need any of that fancy information Mr. Scientist

 

[Koomaster]

Candidate gives honest answer rather than bullshitting his way through it. Refreshing.

Candidate doesn't know anything about foreign affairs, yet wants to be President. Perplexing.

 

[Adaren]

I guess it's really hard to pick up a newspaper and read the foreign affairs section and know some semblance of the issues that affect the homelands of a significant population of the US people. If he doesn't want to give a shit about Hispanics it's all gravy, there's a reason he's not winning our vote.

Now I want someone to ask Bernie what newspapers he reads.

Candidate gives honest answer rather than bullshitting his way through it. Refreshing.

When you're using the same defenses as Trump supporters...

 

[BUNTING1243]

guys come on, foreign policy is just a tool of the establishment

 

[HStallion]

Wow he could have answered that question and given basically given the same answer but without doing so in condescending terms. Just say you don't know but you will look into it. Its not a great answer but its better than,"I'm running for President, out of the way"

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

This is what trips me up--him not knowing the details of every political issue worldwide is one thing; it's another more surprising thing that he had _nothing_ prepped for explaining how Venezuela's failing state isn't a real representation of the socialism he supports. This should be on the shortlist of things he is prepped for.

It's such a soft question too. He could point to corruption and inept leadership and even pivot to his usual stump. He not only whiffs on the lay up, he just says "I dunno?!?"

 

[NewFresh]

Candidate gives honest answer rather than bullshitting his way through it. Refreshing.

This line of thought is really confusing to me. it's essentially Trump supporters "Telling it like it is" line.

 

[Tom Nook]

In other words: "I don't give a f..... about you guys right now. Let me be president first, then I'll consider.

 

[massoluk]

This is what trips me up--him not knowing the details of every political issue worldwide is one thing; it's another more surprising thing that he had _nothing_ prepped for explaining how Venezuela's failing state isn't a real representation of the socialism he supports. This should be on the shortlist of things he is prepped for.

Yeah, who are these people working for Bernie? This should be one of those things.

 

[KingK]

Considering that foreign policy is the one area where presidents can actually do something in, I would want somebody that knows more about the subject than their peers.

Agreed. On the other hand, while Hillary may be more knowledgeable on the subject, she's not necessarily better. Her record on foreign policy doesn't exactly inspire confidence in her decision making skills, and there are many accounts of how much her and Obama clashed on foreign policy during his administration, with her being one of the most hawkish of his advisors.

I'm not thrilled about either choice here, but at least most of Bernie's answers boil down to "I'd probably keep doing what Obama's doing," and I really like Bernie's stance on Israel/Palestine.

Although honestly this entire election to this point just makes me wish we got rid of term limits so Obama could stick around another 4 years.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah, who are these people working for Bernie? This should be one of those things.

Exactly. People have said it before, but I really have come to believe that he is a rather incurious person. I don't have any other explanation for why he is so seemingly willfully ignorant about stuff

 

[ultratruman]

If Hillary gave an interview like this she'd be crucified

 

[Cub3h]

This line of thought is really confusing to me. it's essentially Trump supporters "Telling it like it is" line.

Which is bizarre as he's running for PRESIDENT of the United States. Being honest about not knowing something isn't a good thing, this is the stuff you should know to even be remotely qualified to be president.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Ultimately, this is an interview on foreign policy with a candidate that has a .000000001% chance of stepping into the Oval Office.

 

[Squalor]

This line of thought is really confusing to me. it's essentially Trump supporters "Telling it like it is" line.

I mean, there is a parallel in the mentalities of hardline Sanders and Trump supporters.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Seriously, Bernie has nothing substantive to say about Latin America, at all?

How can they let him go on Univision and not think Latin America will come up as a subject? Does he prepare for anything? He was utterly unprepared for the Democratic debates, except for maybe the last one.

Oh man that meme of Bernie delivering the exact same stump speech every time is more real than I expected.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Trying this hard to undermine someone being more knowledgeable than their competitor looks super desperate

My post has nothing to do with his opponent.

 

[Slayven]

Yeah, who are these people working for Bernie? This should be one of those things.

Well one did manage a comic book shop before going to work with Bernie

 

[Brinbe]

lol It's genuinely amazing to see people just starting to realize why many voters actually supported Clinton in the first place! Because despite her many and numerous supposed faults, she'd actually be FUCKING GOOD AND PREPARED for the highly important and serious job she's running for. Whereas Bernie would be catastrophically terrible and wholly incompetent, something his detractors noticed many, many many months ago!!! But, noooooooo, we're all just establishment $$$$$$hills! Couldn't be that he's all talk, with absolutely zero real game to back things up.

Sigh... it's the pattern that always emerges. People fall in love at first sight, then actually take a peek beneath the curtain and find out the horrific truth. Welcome to reality, folks.

 

[Squalor]

Well one did manage a comic book shop before going to work with Bernie

So Sanders can tell me more about the Marvel Universe than Latin America?

 

[Jackpot]

Whoever it was, it's true.

Do you think the leader of any country, must or should know details about foreign affairs?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: No. There are people on the presidential staff that take care of those details. They provide the needed information on said topics, so the president can take a well informed decision.

Not sure if serious.

Why know anything in that case?

 

[aeolist]

lol It's genuinely amazing to see people just starting to realize why many voters actually supported Clinton in the first place! Because despite her many and numerous supposed faults, she'd actually be FUCKING GOOD AND PREPARED for the highly important and serious job she's running for. Whereas Bernie would be catastrophically terrible and wholly incompetent, something his detractors noticed many, many many months ago!!! But, noooooooo, we're all just establishment $$$$$$hills! Couldn't be that he's all talk, with absolutely zero real game to back things up.

Sigh... it's the pattern that always emerges. People fall in love at first sight, then actually take a peek beneath the curtain and find out the horrific truth. Welcome to reality, folks.

well people fell in love with obama in 2008, and even if his presidency hasn't been perfect i think it's clear he's been better for the office than any of the other candidates that year would have been, including hillary. i mean at this point she's basically running on obama's record and promising 4 more years of his policies.

 

[Karsticles]

And hey sanders forgets about his anti war convictions when it profits him!

But who cares about little stuff like that, right?

He doesn't have anti-war convictions. He has said since the first debate that he would go to war with a nation if he felt it was necessary. So...what are you even talking about?

 

[Koomaster]

So Sanders can tell me more about the Marvel Universe than Latin America?

I first read this as 'Sanders can tell me more about the Marvel Universe and Captain America.' and laughed pretty hard imaging Sanders waving around a comic book during his speeches.

 

[Dany]

Ridiculous