What games in your opinion constitute what combat in an action rpg should aspire to be? I've never really heard a definitive example brought up.
I like to define "action RPG" as a game where combat is based on character stats, but button inputs directly control each action. Final Fantasy XII and XIII for instance aren't action RPGs despite running in real time because because you control battle button-to-menu-to action, whereas in Kingdom Hearts or the Mana games it's directly from button-to-action.
These games essentially try to combine the twitch gameplay of an action game with the strategy of an RPG, and I am hard-pressed to find a game that achieves a good balance between the two. Most end up feeling like RPGs with weak action elements because they were made by RPG developers who aren't experienced in making action games.
I can't remember very many examples from before current gen, but I do recall looking back fondly on the first Kingdom Hearts after playing KHII, which I thought was a button-masher on normal difficulty. The most interesting example I remember from last gen is Rogue Galaxy. That could've been a pretty good game RPG-wise if one of the earlier spells didn't completely break it, but I got really interested when some of the boss fights made good use of action game skills like dodging attacks and making use of range.
In my opinion Tales of Symphonia (only Tales game I've played) is one of the better recent examples. The usual JRPG gameplay matters as much as any other here, but so does watching boss attack animations and timing your attacks and blocks accordingly. I even found simple moves like knockdowns useful for rounding up enemies and giving casters some breathing room. I never really found myself directly commanding team mates often though. It would be really awesome if a Tales game inherited the Soul Calibur system with heavier RPG elements.
What spurred this whole thing up was me recently going back through the first Mass Effect and remembering how RPG-oriented the game was. The shooting action compared to third person shooters about as well as the aforementioned games compare to Ninja Gaiden, but I'm kind of just now realizing that ME1 is more a game about equipment, stats, and abilities, whereas ME2 removed equipment almost entirely and tried to up the twitch element. Hopefully ME3 goes back to the RPG elements that BioWare is good at.
The games that I think almost definitely nail the best balance between action game skills and RPG skills though are Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. They are the only games I've seen so far with stats that affect your character's movement and other elements typically associated with action games.
You have attack, defense, and resistances of course, but also things like poise, and how your strengths affects how much equipment slows you down. Fights are won not only by playing to stats but also enemy patterns and animations. It's not as fast as a Ninja Gaiden but features a similar level of precision in its controls that is necessary for the game to work.
Yeah this seems like a blog, but I wanted to ask here because there are probably a shitload of action rpgs from the old school console and PC days that I've missed.
TL,DR: I think the Tales games and the first Mass Effect are interesting in how they combine action and RPG elements, but Demon's/Dark Souls does it best right now.
I like to define "action RPG" as a game where combat is based on character stats, but button inputs directly control each action. Final Fantasy XII and XIII for instance aren't action RPGs despite running in real time because because you control battle button-to-menu-to action, whereas in Kingdom Hearts or the Mana games it's directly from button-to-action.
These games essentially try to combine the twitch gameplay of an action game with the strategy of an RPG, and I am hard-pressed to find a game that achieves a good balance between the two. Most end up feeling like RPGs with weak action elements because they were made by RPG developers who aren't experienced in making action games.
I can't remember very many examples from before current gen, but I do recall looking back fondly on the first Kingdom Hearts after playing KHII, which I thought was a button-masher on normal difficulty. The most interesting example I remember from last gen is Rogue Galaxy. That could've been a pretty good game RPG-wise if one of the earlier spells didn't completely break it, but I got really interested when some of the boss fights made good use of action game skills like dodging attacks and making use of range.
In my opinion Tales of Symphonia (only Tales game I've played) is one of the better recent examples. The usual JRPG gameplay matters as much as any other here, but so does watching boss attack animations and timing your attacks and blocks accordingly. I even found simple moves like knockdowns useful for rounding up enemies and giving casters some breathing room. I never really found myself directly commanding team mates often though. It would be really awesome if a Tales game inherited the Soul Calibur system with heavier RPG elements.
What spurred this whole thing up was me recently going back through the first Mass Effect and remembering how RPG-oriented the game was. The shooting action compared to third person shooters about as well as the aforementioned games compare to Ninja Gaiden, but I'm kind of just now realizing that ME1 is more a game about equipment, stats, and abilities, whereas ME2 removed equipment almost entirely and tried to up the twitch element. Hopefully ME3 goes back to the RPG elements that BioWare is good at.
The games that I think almost definitely nail the best balance between action game skills and RPG skills though are Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. They are the only games I've seen so far with stats that affect your character's movement and other elements typically associated with action games.
You have attack, defense, and resistances of course, but also things like poise, and how your strengths affects how much equipment slows you down. Fights are won not only by playing to stats but also enemy patterns and animations. It's not as fast as a Ninja Gaiden but features a similar level of precision in its controls that is necessary for the game to work.
Yeah this seems like a blog, but I wanted to ask here because there are probably a shitload of action rpgs from the old school console and PC days that I've missed.
TL,DR: I think the Tales games and the first Mass Effect are interesting in how they combine action and RPG elements, but Demon's/Dark Souls does it best right now.
