-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Bioshock Infinite, overrated and repeative [spoilers]
- Thread starter Nilaul
- Start date
CambriaRising
Member
Both hard and 1999 are available from the start. 1999 mode just requires the Konami code.
It was, you just needed to enter the Konami code. They did this to prevent people from choosing it and being disgusted about how hard it is/losing all your play time due to dieing with no money.
Uninspired gameplay made it a disappointing package?
Or were you upset with everything else (narrative, characters, writing, atmosphere) as well?
Because if it's solely gameplay, than I think it's a bit harsh to call it a disappointing package overall.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Ah was not aware of this. I feel dumb but my sentiments still stand! lol
nordique
Member
I just beat it too, Tawpgun
And, I also enjoyed it
I really liked the whole "infinite thing" and the Rapture moment was really cool
But the end blew my mind, and made me feel very weird for thinking Elizabeth was hot.
I must say, I love Kev Levine's games because of how they make you think. This one was the evolution from the first Bioshock I wanted to see, which Bio 2 was not.
Though, I suppose in a way this is the true sequel since Irrational never handled Bio 2.
Great game, great ride. Not sure if I will continue with the DLC however.
And, I also enjoyed it
I really liked the whole "infinite thing" and the Rapture moment was really cool
But the end blew my mind, and made me feel very weird for thinking Elizabeth was hot.
I must say, I love Kev Levine's games because of how they make you think. This one was the evolution from the first Bioshock I wanted to see, which Bio 2 was not.
Though, I suppose in a way this is the true sequel since Irrational never handled Bio 2.
Great game, great ride. Not sure if I will continue with the DLC however.
I would say that the disappointing package is indeed because of the gameplay-- and the fact that it doesnt mesh at all with the story they're trying to tell. You can tell that the development team were trying to tell a worthy narrative with a fleshed out and interesting world but the way the gameplay is setup I felt that the world was used as nothing more than a theme park you shootbang your way through from one set piece to another. I think this game would have been much better as an action rpg hybrid where the bulk of the story isnt told in heavy handed expositions or hidden audio logs.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Forgive me, I’m not sure how many of these things are strictly “at odds” with each other, particularly
the interpersonal and the political. Aren't they one and the same in this game? At least, that was what I took from it, especially considering the nature of the reveal.
The political stuff just gets swept under the rug by the interpersonal story. The one gets cannibalized by the other. Very disappointing. Around about the time that you enter the alternate history where the Vox Populi go to war, Irrational has completely dropped the ball on the big stuff.
As for the "tearing," you're right that it is fundamental to the story from the get go, but it ends up also giving them a series of narrative "get out of jail free" cards in the game's back half (beginning right about at the moment I refer to above with the Vox). Not only does that let them "cheat," narratively speaking, but it also takes the main plot off the rails.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I see what your saying about the political/personal, but I'm not convinced. Where you saw the political being swept under the rug, I saw a correlation between the interpersonal and the political, which I thought was an extremely clever move. If you want to take the personal as political (or vice-versa) there are no giant leaps to be made:
Booker is an America repenting the sins of its past, Comstock is an America that utterly glorifies in them. Their battle is over the future of America, represented by their children's two possible futures
You're right, it does give them a get out of jail free card, but I didn't think that as I was playing; I never saw any of it as an ass-pull (unlike the end of The Stand, for example). I think that the tearing figures so deeply on every level that to criticise it specifically is near to dismissing the whole game out of hand. Tears, quantum physics and superpositions (and all that other stuff that I do not understand and had to wiki more than once) are fundamental to, not just the narrative, but its political and personal themes; that's why I felt it worked.
Don't get me wrong, the game is nowhere near flawless, but so many of Infinite's themes, ideas, science and politics are intertwined incredibly and on a level that most games only dream of.
As much as I'd like to believe that you're right, it just doesn't hold up. There's absolutely no consistency in its commentary. How does your reading account for the Vox and their wildly inconsistent behavior? How does your reading account for Fink or Slate, or any of the other nameless citizens of Columbia? The game's political-historical layers are a real mess IMO.
I stick to my claim in the OT: it seems clear that Irrational initially had an idea for a Rapture-like tale of Columbia, but that got derailed somewhere mid-development by the story of Elizabeth, Booker, and Comstock. But they were too deep into development to change everything completely, so they just had to suture all the disparate story elements together as best as they could. The "tears" gave them a (cheap) way to do so. They could just wave their hands and tell us to ignore what we just saw since we're now in a different history. It's like making an entire game out of the "it was all a dream" ending.
As for the politics, I would agree that the tears fit into the political commentary through the first few hours of the game (the manipulation of history for the sake of political gain), but like everything else, it all goes to pot shortly thereafter. The tears just become a convenient plot device rather than an emblem of political ideology (akin to the Pieces of Eden in Assassin's Creed). Irrational just uses the whole "tearing" thing as a way to glue together a bunch of irreconcilable ideas in the story.
It's ultimately just a bunch of smoke and mirrors designed to distract players from realizing they've been duped. It's the M. Night Shyamalan method. The fact that so many fans of the game spent so long "decrypting" the plot shows just how silly it all is. That's not "analysis" or "finding meaning"; that's simply decoding. Puzzles are fun, but putting them together doesn't mean that I've "made sense" of anything. It's just busy work.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Okay. Well, the Vox's inconsistent behaviour is actually one of my biggest sticking points for the game, so you got me there. Others are adamant that there is plenty of historical precendent for rebels in a revolution going 'blood simple', but I don't feel I can really debate that because, narratively speaking, I think Irrational fucked up. Like I said before, I don't think this game is perfect.
Fink and Slate are pretty easy to fit into a representative reading: industrialisation and the military, respectively. At the same time they are part of Booker's history of sins: His time as a Pinkerton and his time as a soldier.
I can respect that point. The tears toward the end allow the players/Irrational to explore consequences, particularly whichever potential future that the children of America could bring upon the world. The science (I use the term very loosely) that tears bring to the table are fundamental to making the final political point of the game: that America exists in both a state of guilt and of glorification of it's 'sins', and that change (and possibly atonement) can only occur through the correct guidance of our children... or something. Again, that's what I got from it.
How dare you! I haven't been duped, you swine!
I can see what you're saying. There has been more debate over the plot than the actual themes. Now, I'm no expert but I'm personally pretty impressed with how everything ties together, purely from a thematic perspective (except the Vox, of course).
Also? I HATE Shyamawhammalan. I can't even pronounce it.
The Vox's actions in the late-game are quite similar to Booker's actions during Wounded Knee, complete with scalping. Might not even be a coincidence. Slate worked with the Vox, Slate knew Booker's history, Booker was a martyr to the Vox...wouldn't be hard for Slate or Daisy to use that to motivate the Vox to action, beyond what they were. Hell, maybe Daisy killed Booker because he knew his death could be used that way.
Where it fits into your representation...
If Booker is repentence from Sin, and Comstock is the glory of Sin, maybe Daisy/Vox are the repression of Sin? I dunno.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
That is a very interesting point you got there, chief. I'm not sure how that would fit the political aspect, though...?
Hell if I know. I could debate with you forever on what happened and how it happened, but once we get to "what did the author mean" I'm out of my element.
If I was to write an english paper on the game, it'd look like this - the game all took place inside Booker's head. The Vox represent his past sins...sins against the working man, sins against Native Indians. The Founders were the easy way out...embrace religion, don't really change. The entire game was about his internal struggle...succumb to his past or the easy way out, or work hard and overcome. Hence why in the ending there isn't really a paradox of Comstock being drowned and Booker always rejecting or whatever...it's Booker coming to the realization that Rejecting the baptism is the proper way to deal with everything.
Yeah, English wasn't my strongest subject.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Hahaha - that works for me! I read a post in the 'Bioshock Theme' thread saying that Columbia was a "literal monument to Booker's sins". That was my in. The game made so much sense to me after reading that.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
People can dislike things you think are good without it being a troll you know?
I didn't dislike bioshock infinite but I didn't care about it at all, in fact while playing it I realized it's the equivalent to "Oscar bait" movies in video game form. Except the video game "academy" that hands out the game of the year awards has the lowest possible standards for what makes a video game good.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Finally started it. 2 hours in... and I kind of agree. I'm not feeling the magic I felt in Bioshock. I don't mean to compare them, I realize they are different experiences, but outside of story and environments, the systems were built in a way that required strategic and tactical approaches to combat. Infinite is... a solider shooter? I'm disappointed with that, it has really uninpsired approach to combat, it's really gun-heavy, whereas B1 felt more melee and in-your-face focused, more emphasis on dread/scares/horror, with consistent AI and approach. No traps, kinesis, camera scanning, etc, things that made combat more than just... well, range combat. I don't know. Columbia is really cool to walk around in, but so far... well, I had more fun with Tomb Raider.
And Tomb Raider also has boring enemies!
And Tomb Raider also has boring enemies!
It has traps.
I really don't dislike the game (or its fans). But for all that, I can't abide a world in which an ending like that gets a pass. It doesn't count as a "plot twist" if you keep changing the world's rules as you go. That's where Irrational is playing according to the Shyamalan playbook. It's the worst kind of narrative cheapness. I mean, the dude calls himself "Night," for crying out loud. Not the sort of person to be emulating, especially where writing is involved.
Virtually every power you get has a trap alternative where you hold the button.
And at the very least, Infinite utilizes it's Vigors in combat much better than Bioshock's Plasmids.
Sorry for being late to throw in my 2 cents but my account just got activated and i haven't had a chance to weigh in on the OP
Anyway I think in a perfect world the developers would have taken all the time they needed, maybe roll over the assets to next gen, and created something a little more open and RPG-ish like system shock 2. But it's not like most games with cut content where omissions are glaring. OP complains about doing nothing but shooting and scavenging, but thats like criticizing space invaders because you're just moving around shooting at rows of aliens the whole time. the gameplay has some issues but the bottom line is its fun
Anyway I think in a perfect world the developers would have taken all the time they needed, maybe roll over the assets to next gen, and created something a little more open and RPG-ish like system shock 2. But it's not like most games with cut content where omissions are glaring. OP complains about doing nothing but shooting and scavenging, but thats like criticizing space invaders because you're just moving around shooting at rows of aliens the whole time. the gameplay has some issues but the bottom line is its fun
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I haven't played Bioshock Infinite yet, but imo most games in general are repetitive.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Hahaha! If only he referred to himself exclusively in third person... Screaming Meat could get behind a guy like that.
Where abouts do you think they change the rules, chief?
GoddyofAus
Banned
I stopped reading at "repeative".
Messofanego
Banned
Well then, now we already know your GOTY results! But no FEAR?
Oh c'mon. I hate these kind of comments that want any long form opinion dumped into the OT, when we can have a thread about certain things about a game. It screams of peer pressure and I've seen it too much here. If you don't like the OP, just ignore it. I'm pretty sure thread whining is not cool anymore.
Messofanego
Banned
Spec Ops The Line. People are still making threads about it here.
I'd also argue for Brothers in Arms Hell's Highway. Instead of a WW2 story, it became a psychological thriller.
Alan Wake, too although it has much more exploration and character interaction to be qualified as just a hallway shooter.
The Vox uprising. That's where you start entering the alternate histories wholesale. I guess Irrational figured that if they were going to make plot holes (er, plot tears) big enough to drive a tank through, the main character and his sidekick may as well follow. I audibly groaned at that part, and the rest of the game was a downward spiral for me from there on out in all kinds of ways (story, themes, level design, etc).
I'm pretty easy going when it comes to sci-fi gimmicks--and some are done incredibly artfully in games--but I don't have patience for straight-up cheats.
I'm on my second play-through right now and I'm really not convinced that the gameplay is "uninspired". Honestly, I feel that the game does a good job delivering a fairly open ended "mini sandbox" type of experience. You have a wide variety of weapon and strategic choices when it comes to positioning and the game encourages the player to keep moving rather than standing in one place. When you throw in the sky rails and some of the large arenas you end up with some really well designed battles that force you to think on your feet and handle different types of foes with unique weaknesses to exploit. They have, I think for the better, captured the type of gameplay you typically experience in a Halo game. It's so much more interesting than your average first person shooter.
When you toss in the exceptional story telling, atmosphere, level design, and presentation you have one hell of a package. It's true that the end result is NOT a "Shock"-like experience if by that you are expecting System Shock 2, but it really doesn't matter, as the game is fantastic in its own right.
As much as I enjoyed it, I do think it was far more predictable than Infinite. Still a great narrative experience, though.
Honestly, I'd argue Alan Wake had more shooting than Bioshock Infinite and became far more repetitive due to "samey" scenery. It also featured too many "defend your position" moments.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Ah, fair enough. That was (and still is) the game's major sticking point for me, too... just for slightly different reasons.
hahaha damn, I did not know this. I'm happy i played through the game twice though, it was worth it.
Interfectum
Gold Member
I thought they spent way to much time on the Vox uprising alternative dimension. Before that it seemed like shit was about to get real with all the dimension jumping but it kinda spun it's tires on that particular one for half the game.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I meant a bit more than just that, I felt like I was designing traps in bio shock. With kinesis I would stack benches and bins an things around me so big daddies and splicers couldn't charge me and rigged the area around my little fort with trip wires and mines. I really enjoyed the flexibility of that
which instance?
There's nothing "exceptional" about Infinite's level design. The levels are your average corridor shooter, but with stunning art. That's about it.
Apophenia Overload
Member
A game that makes good on the potential of infinite realities would be more like Scribblenauts, not "magical cover/turret/health appearer." You can swap Liz for the TF2 Engineer and get more or less the same results, including the emotional depth.
Steve McQueen
Member
I liked the original Bioshock a lot, but Infinite... don't know. It just didn't grab me the way the original did. I was nice to fool around with the powers, but having played the knife of Dunwall this week...Dishonored is more my kind of game.
HueyFreeman
Banned
I love how a mod still hasn't edited the thread title. Seems like quite a pointed omission, I'd say.
Needless to say, I find BI's combat extremely rewarding - on my 2nd 1999 playthrough and still get swept away for hours.
Needless to say, I find BI's combat extremely rewarding - on my 2nd 1999 playthrough and still get swept away for hours.
I hold on to the opinion that playing this game on easy is ideal. I never died and I pretty much tore through the combat. It never go in the way, never felt distracting. It allowed me to enjoy the narrative a lot more because I wasn't dreading the next encounter.
But I did see the disconnect you spoke of. Just wasn't as glaring for me and didn't hurt my overall experience.
That only work for us who like the narrative and the story, there are other players that just enjoy the gameplay, the combat and avoid or skip the plot if possible, those are the ones that found the gameplaye somewhat repetitive. Playing Infinite on 1999 is a must imo, easy and normal is just retarded simple.
Should've said that easy was ideal for people who felt the combat was in the way of the narrative which seemed to be that persons issue. To each their own of course.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
I finished working on the second of my Bioshock Infinite music videos earlier today. If you've finished the game and haven't seen them already I've included links below:
<epic sized spoiler warning: these videos contain scenes from the end of the game>
Video 1 - Everybody Wants To Rule The World
http://youtu.be/t65CQUp-1fc
Video 2 - The Sound of Silence (new)
http://youtu.be/wdFY3a0iva4
Edit: Thanks goes to Neiteio for some great feedback regarding an early version of my second video.
<epic sized spoiler warning: these videos contain scenes from the end of the game>
Video 1 - Everybody Wants To Rule The World
http://youtu.be/t65CQUp-1fc
Video 2 - The Sound of Silence (new)
http://youtu.be/wdFY3a0iva4
Edit: Thanks goes to Neiteio for some great feedback regarding an early version of my second video.
such a good taste, professional editing there, I like your videos better than whatever PR stuff they have used to market the game, congrats !
I finished working on the second of my Bioshock Infinite music videos earlier today. If you've finished the game and haven't seen them already I've included links below:
<epic sized spoiler warning: these videos contain scenes from the end of the game>
Video 1 - Everybody Wants To Rule The World
http://youtu.be/t65CQUp-1fc
Video 2 - The Sound of Silence (new)
http://youtu.be/wdFY3a0iva4
Edit: Thanks goes to Neiteio for some great feedback regarding an early version of my second video.
Great job; love Tears for Fears.
I finished working on the second of my Bioshock Infinite music videos earlier today. If you've finished the game and haven't seen them already I've included links below:
<epic sized spoiler warning: these videos contain scenes from the end of the game>
Video 1 - Everybody Wants To Rule The World
http://youtu.be/t65CQUp-1fc
Video 2 - The Sound of Silence (new)
http://youtu.be/wdFY3a0iva4
Edit: Thanks goes to Neiteio for some great feedback regarding an early version of my second video.
Favorited the second one and will share it on my Google Plus.