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Bitcoin community in panic as major exchange goes AWOL.
- Thread starter criesofthepast
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I don't think you understand compound fiats.
Naw, man. Making a game is free these days. http://unity3d.com/learn
If it is indeed your dream to make games, then you should make a game instead of day trading. Learning to code and make art are skills that have a good chance of landing you a non-menial job. Day trading does not provide you with employable skills. Even freelance work will provide you with a better cash flow than day trading.
The key operations take very little time, a few minutes to set up your trades, if that. Most time is spent analysing charts; even that doesn't have to take very long. The most time intensive aspect is learning how to do technical analysis. The most difficult thing is to control your emotions, i.e. don't panic sell and don't panic buy.
You should be in fiat in this case. Though you can also use things like stop loss orders as a precaution, i.e. if the prices falls below x then sell etc.
Are you daytrading in only Bitcoin or you're diversified in Litecoin, dogecoin etc
Currently just bitcoin but may diversify into other coins as well. Trading altcoins is a good idea as they can have some some pretty wild swings and diversification is good.
Fury Sense
Member
So what's the top site for daytrading? Obviously not coinbase.
Just to clarify for others, currency exchanges like xe.com are open 24/7 as well
Rocket Scientist
Member
Will high frequency trading be possible with bitcoin? Is it already possible? Are people setting up algorithms etc to make money?
A documentary called the Wallstreet Code might be interesting to some people here interested in the world of trading. It discusses the guys behind high frequency trading and the flashcrash. Really good watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFQJNeQDDHA
A documentary called the Wallstreet Code might be interesting to some people here interested in the world of trading. It discusses the guys behind high frequency trading and the flashcrash. Really good watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFQJNeQDDHA
There's a few. I recently switched to bitfinex.
But there are others such as btc-e and bitstamp. Those three are the biggest. Gox is dead.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
We have machines learning and recognizing patterns and making money for people.
I understand the fundamentals behind it but it still never ceases to amaze me that this is going on. Buildings dedicated to server farms and nothing else.
Rocket Scientist
Member
The documentary actually ends with one of the guys who created the algo's teaming up with some people talking about beating the algorithms. It does sound fucked up though. All these algorithms want is to be a nanosecond (or even less I guess!) faster at buying something than the next guy. They then sell it for a fractionally higher price to the next person and boom, do this a million times and you're rich.
A great part from the video is a guy talking about how he was surrounded by the most intelligent people in the world from all kinds of fields, and they had dedicated they're lives to making something that produced profits measured in cents.
I don't doubt that's possible. There are already bots for trading bitcoin. Just to bring the discussion back to the OP, there is a popular theory that MtGox was using a bot to manipulate their bitcoin price/reserves
Fury Sense
Member
I've heard of btc-e and bitstamp. Was really hoping for a US based solution. I've seen some, but they didn't seem all the way there.
Yikes. Forget it then, your Bitcoin investment strategy is far from your most egregiously risky plan.
Because there isn't news being made about Bitcoins steadily rising in price. Only huge swings in price make the headlines and that's when these drive-by posters are aware enough to post why is this still doing well or I knew it will crash eventually.
It's still dumb paile. Bitcoin is not an industry. It will collapse when people lose faith in it. If you know when exactly that is by all means continue "investing" or learn the hard way.
PetriP-TNT
Member
I'm in the game now
Is it really diversification when the gains in altcoins are all directly related to the success of Bitcoin and they all predictably and directly come crashing down when anything bad happens to it?
SneakyStephan
Banned
you mean being a productive member of society
you are exactly like how I imagined the average bitcoin miner/trader to be
It's also pretty hilarious that you are living off welfare that all those 'schmucks' taxes are paying for in the meanwhile
Bitcoin has been going for five years. If it was going to collapse it would have done so already.
The only thing welfare pays is the rent. I feel dirty being on it to be perfectly honest. Everything else, food, bills, bitcoin investment comes out of my bank account.
Madoff was going strong since the 1960s. There's an oft-told metaphor about Cinderella you've probably heard. You are having a fabulous time at a party with no clocks on the walls, but if you stay past midnight you turn back into a peasant.
The moral of the story is to get out while you can.
Risk management is important. Of course I would like to reinvest any trading profits into less risky ventures as time goes on. I would be happy, for instance, to put a million dollars into a traditional bank account, collect 4% interest a year and live off the 40k yearly return for the rest of my life.
At the moment I can't say I have a spare million lying around; hence the need for risky trading.
criesofthepast
Member
Wait Paile, you refuse to work and dog on the idea of working an honest job, yet your collecting welfare and investing money in bitcoins? Do you go to school? Or just sit at home collecting welfare and hoping to strike it rich of this plan of yours? Sounds like you're just lazy IMO. You keep talking about 1% a day like anyone could do it by spending 5 minutes a day looking at charts, meanwhile you have admitted to now have made how many bad decisions trading? Didn't you invest money in MTGox way after the writing was already on the wall with them and basically admitted in the other thread you had no clue about their recent troubles when you put money in there? Doesn't sound like you know what your doing.
I don't know how welfare works where you are from but aren't you supposed to be making an effort to find work to even qualify and stay on welfare? Attend meetings and workshops? If you have money in the bank for investments then I don't even know how you got accepted to welfare to be honest.
I'm on team bitcoin as well but the posts you make are seriously bizarre and I think that's why a lot of people here are laughing at you.
I don't know how welfare works where you are from but aren't you supposed to be making an effort to find work to even qualify and stay on welfare? Attend meetings and workshops? If you have money in the bank for investments then I don't even know how you got accepted to welfare to be honest.
I'm on team bitcoin as well but the posts you make are seriously bizarre and I think that's why a lot of people here are laughing at you.
It don't think it's possible in the same sense of what it means in Wall Street.
High frequency trading relies on observing someone else's buy order, purchasing the thing he is trying to buy at a lower price before he can get it, then selling to him at a higher price. It relies on the HFT being able to complete a purchase faster than the time it takes for the original order to find a seller.
That doesn't mean that automated trading is not feasible, just that the conventional mode of HFT isn't.
It is difficult to achieve those requirements in the world of Bitcoin, because there is a high latency in completing a transaction, since it must be verified by the block chain. Transfers sometimes take upwards of an hour, which is orders of magnitude too slow. You can effectively pay to speed up transfers in Bitcoin, but this would cut into the slim margins of HFT, and would probably still be too slow.
In answer to your questions...sigh
I don't refuse to work, but would rather not have to. I lost my job a month ago through no fault of my own. I invest my own savings into bitcoin, not welfare.
Sure I've made bad decisions and have had failures. This is a learning experience. I accept that.
I did not invest money into Gox. I had mined some dogecoin last year, converted it into bitcoin and yes, made the fuck up by putting it into Gox when I shouldn't have. I lost nothing out of my own pocket but live and learn nonetheless.
That is correct. I have lived the past month without welfare. It only started the other day. I have obligations and responsibilities that I need to do in order to continue getting welfare. The sooner I am off it the better. I can't stand it.
There is a liquid assets threshold that as long as you are under you are entitled.
If that is your view, so be it. The only way for me to rubbish that view comprehensively is to be successful here in what I am wanting to do.
I don't refuse to work, but would rather not have to. I lost my job a month ago through no fault of my own. I invest my own savings into bitcoin, not welfare.
Sure I've made bad decisions and have had failures. This is a learning experience. I accept that.
I did not invest money into Gox. I had mined some dogecoin last year, converted it into bitcoin and yes, made the fuck up by putting it into Gox when I shouldn't have. I lost nothing out of my own pocket but live and learn nonetheless.
That is correct. I have lived the past month without welfare. It only started the other day. I have obligations and responsibilities that I need to do in order to continue getting welfare. The sooner I am off it the better. I can't stand it.
There is a liquid assets threshold that as long as you are under you are entitled.
If that is your view, so be it. The only way for me to rubbish that view comprehensively is to be successful here in what I am wanting to do.
Ron Mexico
Member
I know I'm late to the party on this and all, but isn't this "investment strategy" essentially analogous to a Martindale system? Or a reverse Martindale system? If I make X,I'll match it and make 2x as much. Then I can match that and infinitely make money!
The kicker of it is, it'll work initially. Same way as I'll initially win by doubling my bet at the roulette table every time it comes up red. I mean it won't come up red 10 times in a row, right? I mean if it did it certainly wouldn't happen 15 times in a row right? Right?!?! In the roulette example, it's game over when you hit the table limit or your bankroll. In a speculation game like this, the table limit is greed and your bankroll is... your bankroll.
There are people far smarter than we are who aren't touching this with a ten foot pole. There's a lesson to be learned in that. Crypto currency has been around the mainstream long enough to draw attention of the most shrewd investors. We're not reinventing the wheel here.
I'm just an anonymous voice from the Internet, but after 15 years in the financial industry, I've seen the market spikes, I've watched the housing bubble happen. Shit, I was closing (not underwriting, mind you) over a million dollars a week out of a branch inside a supermarket in central NJ back in '02 & '03. Most loans of that time were 5 year ARMs and we know what happened in 2008. But they said there's no way I'd lose money right? Right?!?!
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Just my $.02
The kicker of it is, it'll work initially. Same way as I'll initially win by doubling my bet at the roulette table every time it comes up red. I mean it won't come up red 10 times in a row, right? I mean if it did it certainly wouldn't happen 15 times in a row right? Right?!?! In the roulette example, it's game over when you hit the table limit or your bankroll. In a speculation game like this, the table limit is greed and your bankroll is... your bankroll.
There are people far smarter than we are who aren't touching this with a ten foot pole. There's a lesson to be learned in that. Crypto currency has been around the mainstream long enough to draw attention of the most shrewd investors. We're not reinventing the wheel here.
I'm just an anonymous voice from the Internet, but after 15 years in the financial industry, I've seen the market spikes, I've watched the housing bubble happen. Shit, I was closing (not underwriting, mind you) over a million dollars a week out of a branch inside a supermarket in central NJ back in '02 & '03. Most loans of that time were 5 year ARMs and we know what happened in 2008. But they said there's no way I'd lose money right? Right?!?!
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Just my $.02
speculawyer
Member
I guess this is what happens when you have a currency that hackers can steal.
Oops there goes another rubber tree
http://www.thestar.com/business/201...ses_after_hackers_steal_digital_currency.html
Read The Black Swan ASAP. Youre a disaster waiting to happen.
Ron Mexico
Member
And here's where I'm going to take issue. If you have that much sitting in a bank account to cover your "other" expenses, I'd like to see what that application looked like. Granted, welfare laws are going to look slightly different everywhere, but this reeks of... something.
The plot thickens. Paile refuses to work a 9 to 5, is a wellfare recipient and speculates on cryptocurrencies.
Capital Disdains Tax.
I don't know if they do, but they would certainly be supposed to. I imagine you could deduct mining expenses if you made enough from mining for it to be worthwhile.
So do. Iirc there was a discussion on reddit about classifying bitcoin as a currency or commodity when filing taxes.
Ha
Wow, I just read his posts in the bartender thread. Tenuous grasp.
And after reading more it becomes a bit clearer why he feels he was fired. Ok, I'm removing myself from this one.
PetriP-TNT
Member
First Magic The Gathering Online Exchange, then Flexcoin and now Paile is banned. Bad month for bitcoins.
they should but probably don't. I have a feeling a lot of people will be getting in trouble for bitcoin-related tax fuckery in the coming years.
Why not invest that money to the actual stock market instead. Even if bit coin were one day to become legit with regulations and all that stuff, its too scary to go head first into that right now. Like that guy who supposedly lost 300k + because Mt. Gox went down... kidding or not, I would not doubt some folks have lost a considerable amount of money due to investing into this currency. Why not just gamble with the stock market instead with actual currencies? Or am I missing something here?
That's my feeling on it, too. I feel like some bitcoin investors on the smaller scale are just becoming what they have railed against: people who work in mysterious exchanges and avoid paying taxes on their profits.
of course and they try because it's "untraceable"..... except that where smoke is billowing out at an alarming rate, an auditor will probably want to poke around there.
Ron Mexico
Member
I think it's the willful blindness thinking that somehow it's still a secret society that isn't on the mainstream radar which somehow makes it immune to the issues with any other speculative market.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I chalk it up more to the insane volatility of bitcoin giving a higher potential for returns in the short term if played right (and everyone thinks they'll play it right).
Ron Mexico
Member
It would stand to reason that while bitcoin to bitcoin transfers aren't traceable, the exchange back and forth to dollars must certainly is. Hence a paper trail in the event of an audit. I can have millions in bitcoin but it's not truly "valuable" in the overwhelming majority of cases without exchanging it to a fiat currency. And if I try to disguise that, we'd be in money laundering territory.
Exactly. I think in some cases that's what's happening - money laundering into different crypto currency exchanges.
Ron Mexico
Member
I think we're saying the same thing. Everyone will play it right because it's not susceptible to the same pitfalls of say, penny stocks, because it's not a part of that system.
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