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[Lime]

Phil Kollar covered a GDC roundtable discussion by professor and game designer Derek Manns and Dennis Mathews of Revelation Interactive Studios.. I've posted some excerpts, but there's more at the link.

On developer demographics and the lack of coverage:

"Blacks in gaming should not just be about developing positive characters," Manns said, "but also about what can be created by diversity in development."

Manns noted that while the industry has seen some improvement in the last decade in its distribution of demographics, the percentage of black developers has increased a measly .5 percent — from 2 to 2.5 percent of all developers. Those stats come from the IGDA, which Mathews said is the only organization in gaming that is actively gathering analytics on demographics.

On how the production process affects what type of character gets put into their games

Mathews said one of the sources of stereotypes in gaming comes early in the process, stemming from the very concept of a "target audience." Developers attempt to pinpoint who will be playing their game and, in doing so, turn to stereotypes, even unknowingly.

"Those stereotypes tie into publisher decisions of what games get picked up and what should be put into games," Mathews said.

On why hiring and developers need to be more diverse and considerate:

Mathews summed up the biggest reason why diversity is needed in one phrase: "People don't know what they don't know." He explained that often developers who aren't black don't even realize when they're drawing on stereotypes because they don't have any black coworkers to call it out.

"Hiring is done via word of mouth," Mathews said. "It's people you know you work well with, which often means people who are like you, which often means people who are the same race."

On non-Black developers creating something they are unfamiliar with beyond their own comfort zone:

For the last portion of the roundtable, the group moved onto a complex discussion of whether developers should try to create characters of other races, genders and cultures if they might not know or understand those races, genders and cultures themselves.

"Can you trust yourself to create something about a type of person you're not familiar with?" one audience participant asked. She conceded that it's possible, but you have to commit to doing the right research.

"You have the ability to create something that's outside your culture," another audience member said. "You just need to understand that it's not your culture. We spend too much time trying to analyze if you're authentic to an experience. Don't be scared of trying something new and getting rejected."

Others argued that said research should include specifically reaching out to and talking to people. "It's not enough that you're researching on the internet," said one participant.

On how game companies should actively do something

Finishing with a discussion on how the industry can better address these issues, Manns said that more opportunities need to be given to black developers, especially by platform operators like Microsoft and Sony.

"Give us a deal for one game," Manns said. "I have plenty of friends in this industry who are black developers and very talented, but I don't have the money to pay them."

On hiring practices and networking events

Another audience member noted that change needs to start on an individual level, particularly with hiring managers. "If you're a hiring manager, come to events like this, and if someone says something that impresses you, introduce yourself and exchange cards," she said. "You have to realize that you yourself have a bias to hang out with people like you and hire people like you, so you have to actively fight against that bias."

As the roundtable ended, Manns and Mathews highlight Blacks in Gaming, an organization in its first year of existence that is seeking talented people to fill leadership positions. They also promised more panels throughout the week further discussing the issues facing African American portrayals and representation in gaming.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/3/5/8158645/black-developers-stereotypes-gaming

 

[Lime]

I also want to mention that the podcast SpawnOnMe had an amazing conversation with Evan Narcisse from Kotaku last week that covers a lot of this topic and how best to understand it and what needs to be done in the gaming industry.

Kotaku writer, Evan Narcisse makes his first trip to Brookago! We talk about Evan’s provocative, but truthful article about blackness and gaming. Kah, Cee, Shareef Jackson and Evan talk honestly about race, gaming, representation and how we can, collectively, make things better.

There is so much wisdom in that discussion, definitely a huge recommendation.

 

[Stare-Bear]

I work in the visual effects industry (kind of similar to the games industry) in the UK and the Netherlands and I've noticed over the past 15 years that there are simply not a lot of black people interested in working in this industry. This started from college, where out of 75 students only 1 was black.

I think the games and visual effects industry is one of the most diverse industries out there. Ive worked in teams with people from all over the world, who all have different backgrounds and cultures.

 

[Lime]

I work in the visual effects industry (kind of similar to the games industry) in the UK and the Netherlands and I've noticed over the past 15 years that there are simply not a lot of black people interested in working in this industry. This started from college, where out of 75 students only 1 was black.

I think the games and visual effects industry is one of the most diverse industries out there. Ive worked in teams with people from all over the world, who all have different backgrounds and cultures.

The roundtable discussion kind of covered that aspect:

Another attendee noted that one of the reasons stereotypes in gaming and a lack of black developers may exist is because of early console and PC distribution.

"First iterations of PCs and consoles like the PlayStation were missed in poorer, urban communities," he said. "The developers inspired by those first iterations were white. They're the ones making games now, and it shows in what they create."

The intersection of class and race also affect this. But you are also coming from a European context, so your experience is markedly different than US or Canadian developers.

 

[DWinn7]

Great topic. More developers need to step out of their comfort zone and take risks. It's ok to step back and say "we need to be more diverse because we're tired of making the same type of characters and gaming experiences"

It will take a bit of work because, like they said, it's a word of mouth industry and people hire who they're familiar with.

 

[JDSN]

This is why I find the "Hire the best" logic shorta myopic, hiring the best is aking to gamers asking for objective reviews, your definition of "the best" actually means "the one the interviewer thinks is similar to him" and in the gaming industry that means hiring a white dude that was recommended by another white dude.

 

[Boombox On]

This is why I find the "Hire the best" logic shorta myopic, hiring the best is aking to gamers asking for objective reviews, your definition of "the best" actually means "the one the interviewer thinks is similar to him" and in the gaming industry that means hiring a white dude that was recommended by another white dude.

Not only that, but the industry (alongside many others) hiring practices are 99% dependent on 2 things:

1) access, something that is absolutely not equal amongst all ethnicities.
2) networking, which is really a factor of access.

 

[mclem]

As it happens, the producer I worked under around half of my time at Rebellion was black. The original Sniper Elite was very much his baby. Don't know if he was involved with V2 or 3, though; he may have been made redundant in the same cull as got me.

 

[QuickSilverD]

Manns noted that while the industry has seen some improvement in the last decade in its distribution of demographics, the percentage of black developers has increased a measly .5 percent — from 2 to 2.5 percent of all developers. Those stats come from the IGDA, which Mathews said is the only organization in gaming that is actively gathering analytics on demographics.

Wouldn't that actually be a 25% increase?

 

[Lime]

Wouldn't that actually be a 25% increase?

Depends on how you see it. Compared to the other increases, like Latino and women in the same survey, Black employment hasn't developed that much, disappointingly so.

 

[block tower]

thanks for the links, im going to read this later

 

[n00bsauce87]

He explained that often developers who aren't black don't even realize when they're drawing on stereotypes because they don't have any black coworkers to call it out.

This is true in real life when companies have to point out in PR moves that they didn't know that an action of theirs could be considered racially insensitive.

Most recently:

'Strange Fruit' PR firm changes name after Twitter backlash

Having a diverse workforce and more importantly, among the managers and other decision makers will only yield better results and avoid negative press. Having a black person on staff would have at least increase the likelihood that there would be an attempt to prevent the use that name from 0% to any number above 0%, and that's better than 0% every time.

Wouldn't that actually be a 25% increase?

Yes, that's correct. But I think the context is that is among the entirety of a 100% pie, not comparing itself to itself.

 

[petran79]

are things any better in France ?

 

[wildfire]

Wouldn't that actually be a 25% increase?

Cute.

Overtime I expect this situation to change. Personally I expect these numbers to double in 5 years with the way incubating programs for STEM have been developing in the past.

 

[Dice//]

I am a firm believer that a diverse development team can make a much more enjoyable game world. We all win.

 

[Ezalc]

This is why I find the "Hire the best" logic shorta myopic, hiring the best is aking to gamers asking for objective reviews, your definition of "the best" actually means "the one the interviewer thinks is similar to him" and in the gaming industry that means hiring a white dude that was recommended by another white dude.

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

 

[Lime]

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

Your answer is in the OP. That's not how the professional world works.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

Yeah, but there is no such thing as purely objective hiring. Even for technical jobs (CS major here) where interviews involve solving technical problems and there is at least some sort of objective benchmark, a lot of it still has to do with culture fit and subjective opinions on a candidate. I'm not sure how you'd solve that, aside from a way to measure that without the interviewer knowing anything about the person they're interviewing...which isn't a very practical thing to do

 

[PBY]

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

Welp

 

[blastprocessor]

Same with Indian developers in the UK 15 years ago. There were only 3 Indians on my BSc Computer Science course (Computer Game course were introduced quite a few years later). I'm sure the gaming industry will evolve but it will take time. You have to want to do this, like l did.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Welp, it's going to be one of those threads where I consider leaving gaf for a while.

 

[Infinite]

Welp, it's going to be one of those threads where I consider leaving gaf for a while.

What makes you say that? This thread is moving pretty slow and the responses aren't bad for the most part.

 

[KePoW]

Welp, it's going to be one of those threads where I consider leaving gaf for a while.

lol why would you say that? Think you're taking things too seriously, I never let any GAF thread affect my life. It's just a gaming forum

 

[twobear]

lol why would you say that? Think you're taking things too seriously, I never let any GAF thread affect my life. It's just a gaming forum

He said the thread made him consider leaving GAF, not leaving his job or his wife.

 

[dem0neyes]

Interesting take on it and answered a few of my questions regarding why this is the case. When I was in college there was only one other black guy that was a computer science major and at the job I have now (Software Developer) I have been the only black developer here since I started 4 years ago. Considering the number of people that work on the project I work on it really is staggering. I do think some of this has to do with lack of interest in computer science amongst African Americans personally.

 

[Jumplion]

For the last portion of the roundtable, the group moved onto a complex discussion of whether developers should try to create characters of other races, genders and cultures if they might not know or understand those races, genders and cultures themselves

"Can you trust yourself to create something about a type of person you're not familiar with?" one audience participant asked. She conceded that it's possible, but you have to commit to doing the right research.

"You have the ability to create something that's outside your culture," another audience member said. "You just need to understand that it's not your culture. We spend too much time trying to analyze if you're authentic to an experience. Don't be scared of trying something new and getting rejected."

Others argued that said research should include specifically reaching out to and talking to people. "It's not enough that you're researching on the internet," said one participant.

This is something I've wrestled with myself. Sometimes it feels like it's not my "place" to create a character from a perspective that I am unfamiliar with. Research and having people share their perspectives can help, but I'm talking more the base morals of it. As a white dude, it's kind of sad and a bit ironic that the people that are the cause of less diverse characters in games are the ones who ultimately have the most power to rectify this.

 

[KePoW]

He said the thread made him consider leaving GAF, not leaving his job or his wife.

by life, I meant someone's personal mood

 

[Amir0x]

I like this Lime about hiring:

Another audience member noted that change needs to start on an individual level, particularly with hiring managers. "If you're a hiring manager, come to events like this, and if someone says something that impresses you, introduce yourself and exchange cards," she said. "You have to realize that you yourself have a bias to hang out with people like you and hire people like you, so you have to actively fight against that bias."

Because it's so true. People tend to bring people around themselves who emulate who they are and who they're familiar with, and that tends to be on average a very select group of skin colors and world views. It reminds me of the anecdote from the making of the television show COMMUNITY, I posted it in the female statistics topic:

It started because the showrunner of the comedy show COMMUNITY, Dan Harmon, was forced to maintain a 50/50 quota for female writers. At first, he hated it:

I remember going, “Are you f*cking kidding me?” to myself. “Okay, I got a sitcom, and this is as far as you go,” because I’ve just been told that half of my staff needs to be a quota hire.

But then...

Now you have a staff that is just as good as the staff you would have had, but happens to be half women. And it seems like the greatest thing in the world, because the world is half women. And the male writers across the board, from top to bottom, in their most private moments drinking with me, when they’re fully licensed to be as misogynist, reactive, old-boy-network as they want, all they can say is, “This turned out to be a great thing.”

I don’t have enough control groups to compare it to, but there’s just something nice about feeling like your writers’ room represents your ensemble a little more accurately, represents the way the world turns.

Even though Bromstad’s gone, now I’m carrying this legacy, going, “Eh, guys, we really need a half-female writing staff.” I would teach it. I think we have to stop thinking of it as a quota thing and think of it as a common-sense thing.

I found it amazingly refreshing how honest and reflective he was about how it worked out. He admitted he was stubborn and that he needed to be forced to change; and then that change netted some unpredictably positive results. Now he can't even imagine doing it another way and advocates forced gender balance.

Now obviously that might be extreme, but the idea is sound... maybe sometimes people have to be forced into diversity to understand why it can have such a positive impact on the games they're making. Who knows. But something definitely has to change.

Welp, it's going to be one of those threads where I consider leaving gaf for a while.

maybe instead of drive-by shitposting you could contribute a thought that would make this thread the type of thread that makes you consider this community special instead?

 

[Papilloma]

Wouldn't that actually be a 25% increase?

25% relative increase, 0.5% absolute increase.

 

[entremet]

Good looking out, OP.

I'll read this later.

 

[timetokill]

The part that's most difficult is this:

"You have the ability to create something that's outside your culture," another audience member said. "You just need to understand that it's not your culture. We spend too much time trying to analyze if you're authentic to an experience. Don't be scared of trying something new and getting rejected."

How realistic is that, really, for people to do? In this case, "getting rejected" can include the game not selling well, being labeled a racist, and possibly losing your job or your company going out of business.

Is that really a risk we can expect people to take?

I'm not arguing against creating more diverse characters, but I can definitely understand why people choose the "safe" option most of the time. I'd love to hear actual solutions to how to handle this issue.

 

[grandwizard]

Great read, really drives the point home that we need to branch out and try new things, even if it is risky, if we want to have different experiences and not be stuck in the same rut forever.

 

[Brainfreeze]

The only one I'm a bit iffy on is "non-Black developers creating something they are unfamiliar with beyond their own comfort zone."

Of course, with proper research and respect, this is something that should be attempted. But just seeing Gaf's reaction to the possibility of a white-gay villain in Farcry 4, for instance, makes me totally understand why many developers may not make that step outside of their comfort zone. Taking that steps makes people much more critical of your work, and it's not easy to begin with. I think it's easier said than done that developers should make the attempt and not be afraid to fail. I'd be afraid.

If I ever do create my own game, it'd probably be something like Thomas Was Alone, honestly. Just because jumping into the whole sex/gender/race/religion pool can be frightening at times. Putting yourself out there with art is already scary enough on its own.

I think we as video game fans can probably do a better job of propping up well-made game with different cultural ties, instead of shitting on the ones who make mistakes, if we want this to be prevalent.

Making more games that represent other cultures is probably one of the quickest things to bring other cultures into helping to develop games.

 

[True Fire]

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

You should educate yourself on how valuable diversity can be to an organization. It brings together people with different experiences and skillsets, and it allows an organization to change and grow. When you hire people who are "best for the job" (based on your limited worldview) you end up with people with the same skills and experiences as the people already in the organization, as their criteria for "best for the job" is very narrow and only includes people similar to themselves.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

I've written about this for a thesis and in a presentation, but a some of it also comes from a long history of movies and American culture that got exported to Japan and then gestated without real cultural or historical understanding.

 

[blakep267]

The only one I'm a bit iffy on is "non-Black developers creating something they are unfamiliar with beyond their own comfort zone."

Of course, with proper research and respect, this is something that should be attempted. But just seeing Gaf's reaction to the possibility of a white-gay villain in Farcry 4, for instance, makes me totally understand why many developers may not make that step outside of their comfort zone. Taking that steps makes people much more critical of your work, and it's not easy to begin with. I think it's easier said than does that developers should make the attempt and not be afraid to fail. I'd be afraid.

If I ever do create my own game, it'd probably be something like Thomas Was Alone, honestly. Just because jumping into the whole sex/gender/race/religion pool can be frightening at times. Putting yourself out there with art is already scary enough on its own.

I think we as video game fans can probably do a better job of propping up well-made game with different cultural ties, instead of shitting on the ones who make mistakes, if we want this to be prevalent.

Making more games that represent other cultures is probably one of the quickest things to bring other cultures into helping to develop games.

But doesn't that speak to the skill of the developer and writers etc. i agree if you aren't skilled enough to tackle diverse characters don't. Play it safe. But I do things I that if it's skillfully done, gamers would appreciate diversity

 

[timetokill]

But doesn't that speak to the skill of the developer and writers etc. i agree if you aren't skilled enough to tackle diverse characters don't. Play it safe. But I do things I that if it's skillfully done, gamers would appreciate diversity

The quote literally says to try, and not be afraid of being rejected. Your version says only do it if you can pull it off. How do you know if you can pull it off? The price of rejection is extremely high in this case.

 

[KingV]

Wouldn't that actually be a 25% increase?

By raw numbers, its probably actually even higher, assuming that there are more developers today than there were 10 years ago.

 

[Lime]

The Evan Narcisse / SpawnOnMe podcast episode touches on creating something you're not familiar with. They mention Jill Murray and her team researching the topic of slavery for AC Liberation and Freedom Cry as an example.

This RPS article also addresses it: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/04/hopi-less-how-kachina-became-donut-county/

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

I've written about this for a thesis and in a presentation, but a some of it also comes from a long history of movies and American culture that got exported to Japan and then gestated without real cultural or historical understanding.

On this note: are there any Japanese-Brazilian immigrants with positions in the former's game industry? The Japanese government's attempts to attract Brazilian immigrants with a shared heritage didn't go so well two or three decades ago; individuals and families who migrated are often at risk of discrimination and limited participation.

Re: non-African-heritage/-ethnic individuals and teams making products about those peoples, research into the demographic and synthesis of their ideas with the developers' own is necessary for any such project. It can't hurt to own up to one's unfamiliarity and use this project as means to understand the culture(s); for developers it would be a constructive experience and, in cooperation with publishers and PR, the game could both stand on its own merits and silently communicate empathy for another people. Giving the marginalized just as much an opportunity to make games for themselves and others is more important, though.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's pretty lonely out here, it's true

The quote literally says to try, and not be afraid of being rejected. Your version says only do it if you can pull it off. How do you know if you can pull it off? The price of rejection is extremely high in this case.

No one will ever learn anything or improve if they don't try, and honestly most devs aren't avoiding doing it out of fear of offending, especially if you look at what's come out over the past few decades.

 

[timetokill]

No one will ever learn anything or improve if they don't try, and honestly most devs aren't avoiding doing it out of fear of offending, especially if you look at what's come out over the past few decades.

How can you tell what hasn't been done due to fear of offending?

And again, while I agree that we need to be able to learn, the price of failure in this case can be the failure of the game itself, your job, your reputation, and so on. That's not an environment you want to "fail" in.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

How can you tell what hasn't been done due to fear of offending?

And again, while I agree that we need to be able to learn, the price of failure in this case can be the failure of the game itself, your job, your reputation, and so on. That's not an environment you want to "fail" in.

Ok, then let's not worry about this anymore

 

[timetokill]

Ok, then let's not worry about this anymore

That's not the solution either, obviously, and I'm not arguing for it.
I'm looking for practical ways of improving the situation.

For larger companies, hiring more black employees is a good start and a way to help tackle these issues.

For smaller or more indie developers, what is a practical way to give them the space to "fail" without it ruining their livelihood?

 

[Lime]

That's not the solution either, obviously, and I'm not arguing for it.
I'm looking for practical ways of improving the situation.

For larger companies, hiring more black employees is a good start and a way to help tackle these issues.

For smaller or more indie developers, what is a practical way to give them the space to "fail" without it ruining their livelihood?

Research, communicate and reach out.

 

[JDSN]

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

Ok.

 

[Infinite]

That's not the solution either, obviously, and I'm not arguing for it.
I'm looking for practical ways of improving the situation.

For larger companies, hiring more black employees is a good start and a way to help tackle these issues.

For smaller or more indie developers, what is a practical way to give them the space to "fail" without it ruining their livelihood?

That seems like a rather small issue that is blown out of proportion especially when it's essentially solved with communication.

 

[Messofanego]

Thanks for this, Lime. Will listen to that podcast, don't get enough Evan Narcisse.

Has N'Gai Croal got anything to say about this?

This is why I find the "Hire the best" logic shorta myopic, hiring the best is aking to gamers asking for objective reviews, your definition of "the best" actually means "the one the interviewer thinks is similar to him" and in the gaming industry that means hiring a white dude that was recommended by another white dude.

Not only that, but the industry (alongside many others) hiring practices are 99% dependent on 2 things:

1) access, something that is absolutely not equal amongst all ethnicities.
2) networking, which is really a factor of access.

Good points.

 

[KidGalactus]

Hiring people of different races for the pure purpose of diversity is not the right way to go about it. The person hired should be the person who is best for the job, that is always up to the one judging and may obviously have some bias but that person's race shouldn't be a factor in it. I'm all for diversity but the definition of the best isn't somebody who is most like him it's somebody who has the skills necessary for the job.

You believe in a just world, which is real cute and all, but it just isn't reality.

Should the best person always be hired for a job? In a world where all other things are equal, absolutely.

However, this is not our situation. We have to create the world we want to live in.

Waiting for things to work out eventually (whenever that is), because you think a "just world" will not allow injustice to continue, is passive, ineffecTive, and kind of silly.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Its a great article. It brings up honest questions.


How do you tell the difference between attempting diversification and ending up with check-listing? It has to be an honest effort, and be a real balance of mental thought. You can't come at the issue half assed, that's definitely something to think about. But that goes for any kind of racial attempting outside of what the devs themselves know, as well as gender stereotypes.

I liked the Last Of Us's interpretations of 'black ness' the best because Henry and Sam were just like everyone else. They didn't subscribe to many cliches and were pretty honest as characters. Although i did have an issue with the projection of once again being seen as the disposable one and the one to betray, but those were just niggling issues