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Blizzard "goes back to the drawing board" with Diablo 3 PvP

M

Majine

Banned
Jay Wilson said:
We've been working really hard on the features, content, and systems for PvP in Diablo III and I wanted to take some time to provide an update on where we're at. Of course, our goal has been to release our Team Deathmatch mode as soon as possible, but we don't want to put anything out there before it's ready. Right now, Team Deathmatch isn't yet where we want it to be, and I want to provide some insight into where we are at in the development process.

The State of PvP
Our original intent with PvP for Diablo III was to provide more formal support for the dueling community that existed in Diablo II. We wanted to give players some kind of structure that would not only make it easier for you to duel with one another, but also allow you to have duels that were team-based. This is how our Team Deathmatch mode emerged, and it's been instrumental in making a lot of improvements to Diablo III. But in continuing to develop this mode, playtest it, and put it in front of other developers within the company, we've found that it falls short of our expectations for a high-quality Blizzard experience.
Putting people into an arena and letting them hurl fireballs and swing crazy-ass swords at one another always has an element of fun to it. I imagine it's no surprise to anyone reading this blog that people like battling each other in video games, so if you had the chance to play our Team Deathmatch at one of the BlizzCons where we featured it you might not understand why we'd say that we don’t feel the current mode is good enough.

Well, Here's Why…
For us it comes to a few issues, one of which is depth. Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to make gets old relatively quickly. We've brought a lot of people in to try out Team Deathmatch and, while some found it entertaining, most of our testers didn't feel like it was something they'd want to do beyond a few hours. Without more varied objectives, or very lucrative rewards, few saw our current iteration as something they'd want spend a lot of time in.
Another is class balance. Like Diablo II, Diablo III was designed to be a PvE-first kind of game, where we never compromised on player abilities in the name of future PvP balance. We want to be able to carry over as many of the crazy runes, items, and skills as possible, with their crazy effects, and alter them as little as possible. In a casual PvP mode, something equivalent to a WoW Battleground, this would be fine, but Team Deathmatch felt very hardcore, and it put a laser focus on class balance in a way that we didn’t think would be good for the game as a whole.
Certainly, we've gotten a lot of benefits from the development of Team Deathmatch, especially in the areas of controls and combat model tuning, but at this point we don't believe it's the experience we feel it needs to be in order to ship, so we will be shelving it for now and exploring other options.

What's Next
So, our core problem is that our Team Deathmatch mode doesn't feel like a great addition to Diablo III. It's not up to the quality that Blizzard gamers expect or that we feel you deserve, and it doesn't really fit with our goals for the rest of the game. The question now is what are we going to do about it?
First and foremost, if our original goal was to support dueling, then we're not achieving that goal very well if we don’t actually give players a way to duel in-game. You’ve been asking us for dueling for a while, so we're going to add it to the game soon. Dueling is currently scheduled to release with patch 1.0.7, which is set to hit sometime after the new year. (We'll be providing details about that feature very soon, so stay tuned.)
But as I mentioned before, we are going back to the drawing board on a new replacement for Team Deathmatch, something that feels more appropriate for Diablo III. And as we stated previously, regardless of when we release it, it'll be a free addition to the game. Team Deathmatch provided us with the foundation that we needed and served us well. Hell, it may even still be added in some form in the future. For now, though, we're going to first be looking at new modes that play up to the strengths of the character classes, focus on objectives beyond just defeating other players, and possibly even integrate PvE elements and rewards.

Keepin' It Real
We wanted to be upfront and honest with the community about where this particular project is at. It's certainly not ideal, and I know some of you got to play Team Deathmatch at BlizzCon and are probably thinking, "It seemed good enough! Just give us that." I also know how I feel whenever a game or game feature I'm looking forward to is delayed, but, as with all things Blizzard, we want to be sure that the features we add to Diablo III are actually worth it and will make the game better, and PvP is no exception.
While we don't have any further information to share right now about our plans for additional PvP modes, we look forward to posting more about dueling in the next few days.
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They might be forcing this one feature, I think.
 
why not just do some kind of horde style competitive co-op where you fight waves and waves of enemies or some shit? maybe some kind of last man standing mode. seems like a no-brainer.
 
One sentence in particular points to all types of reasons why I hate Blizz sometimes.

"Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to makes gets old relatively quickly"

Um, not really Blizz. People just dueled because they enjoyed it a shit ton in D2. People did World PVP in WoW for no other reason because they thought it was loads of fun. I don't see why Blizzard has to force or give a reward or objective to PVP. I always enjoyed PVP when it's of the natural or organic nature and it's just fun to do, not forced. Way overthinking it. I loved world PVP in WoW, stuff like fighting at X Roads or Tauren Mill was amazing, and then they went and took a crap with stuff like Battlegrounds.
 
I wonder how active is the playerbase now. It's been a couple of months since the last big update. I'd say improve the core of D3, the PVE content. Once that is really good, work on the PVP.
 
I played the pvp at blizzcon a few years ago. They were right. It didn't have lasting appeal at all. I knew this was coming when they first announced the delay. It was pretty much a cluster fuck of smashing your skills and trying to kill someone before they get you.
 
For those who did not read the long-ass unbolded OP:

- duelling is still on track for 1.0.7 patch early next year
- Team Deathmatch goes back to the drawing board
- whenever it is released it still will be free
 
They should have just put in Diablo 2 style PVP on day 1, they are taking this way too seriously and fucking themselves in the process.
 
Of course, our goal has been to release our Team Deathmatch mode as soon as possible, but we don't want to put anything out there before it's ready. Right now, Team Deathmatch isn't yet where we want it to be, and I want to provide some insight into where we are at in the development process.
Click to expand...

gp64Ml.jpg
 
Team Deathmatch mode doesn't feel like a great addition to Diablo III. It's not up to the quality that Blizzard gamers expect or that we feel you deserve, and it doesn't really fit with our goals for the rest of the game.
Click to expand...
So release it on the 15th of May and make it playable/fun in late August?
 
The way PvE is set up in Diablo 3 will be super frustrating and broken if taken over to PvP.

In diablo 3, players can freeze, stun, life leech monster that they are completely invincible.

Taking that to PvP will not fly. I have no clue how they will do PvP ever. Having people getting one shotted or stun locked over and over again is not fun.
 
Blizzard has become like an athlete or artist with performance anxiety; their fear of failure is making them fail. They just need to put out more games and stop endlessly iterating without actually making any progress.
 
Honestly, PvP is not even a remote draw to me in any game.

I still play Diablo 3 so I'm more than happy if they just focus on making the game even better.
 
Jarnet87 said:
One sentence in particular points to all types of reasons why I hate Blizz sometimes.

"Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to makes gets old relatively quickly"

Um, not really Blizz. People just dueled because they enjoyed it a shit ton in D2. People did World PVP in WoW for no other reason because they thought it was loads of fun. I don't see why Blizzard has to force or give a reward or objective to PVP. I always enjoyed PVP when it's of the natural or organic nature and it's just fun to do, not forced. Way overthinking it. I loved world PVP in WoW, stuff like fighting at X Roads or Tauren Mill was amazing, and then they went and took a crap with stuff like Battlegrounds.
Click to expand...
Yup. Developers time and time again seem to realize that there are people who do PvP because it's fun, and there are people who do PvP for rewards. It's extremely hard to please both of these groups, because reward-based PvP tends to kill fun-based (i.e. no incentive) PvP, and the folks who just want reward-based PvP will find fun-based PvP annoying as it generally hampers their attempts at getting other rewards.

Diablo II was purely fun-based PvP. It survived in a small community that enjoyed smashing for smashing, and it's unfortunate that Blizzard thinks PvP needs to please everyone to get released.
 
Does anyone even care at this point? I mean seriously. The game is a flaming trainwreck and I think people have moved on since its release to better stuff.
 
Jarnet87 said:
One sentence in particular points to all types of reasons why I hate Blizz sometimes.

"Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to makes gets old relatively quickly"

Um, not really Blizz. People just dueled because they enjoyed it a shit ton in D2. People did World PVP in WoW for no other reason because they thought it was loads of fun. I don't see why Blizzard has to force or give a reward or objective to PVP. I always enjoyed PVP when it's of the natural or organic nature and it's just fun to do, not forced. Way overthinking it. I loved world PVP in WoW, stuff like fighting at X Roads or Tauren Mill was amazing, and then they went and took a crap with stuff like Battlegrounds.
Click to expand...

I agree. My most memorable experiences in Diablo were when I was with a couple of other people descending deeper into the catacombs when another guy came into the game and declared themselves hostile.

WoW was the same. The fights in Tarren Mill and Southshore were little more than back and forth, but they were one of the most fun experiences that I've had in a game. This was before PVP rewards and ranks.
 
Just use the time and resources to add more items/effects in the meantime please. We all know the expansion is like 3 years off anyway, with the way you "release things when you are ready" (which is only another way of saying you are incapable of reaching milestones in appropriate periods of time).

PvP is always going to be a gimmick in this game and nothing that keeps people hooked for moths.
 
Despite loving D1, D2 & LOD, I still have not purchased D3. There is absolutely NOTHING enticing to that game that TL2 doesn't offer. Glad to see the negative opinions of the game compared to D2/TL2. Hopefully Blizzard will realize they aren't the powerhouse developer everyone believes them to be.
 
I'm a big fan of Diablo III, but this is a pretty epic mishandling of a feature and underdelivery on promises.

Never buy on potential. Buy something for what it is at the moment.
 
It's crazy how fast Blizzard has fallen. They just don't get it that people actually like dueling and do not care there are no rewards for it. People just find it fun and really that is all that should matter in the end.
 
Without more varied objectives, or very lucrative rewards, few saw our current iteration as something they'd want spend a lot of time in.
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I'm not saying Blizzard will do this, but I can't help but feel like this is something you say if you want Call of Duty style progression.
 
So how is Diablo 3 now a days? I remember looking at patch notes and some of the stuff on there seemed like good additions in theory.
 
Don't believe their excuses/lies

PvP is completely broken because of PvE. Gear that gives you 50+% crit chance and 500% crit damage with a 100% chance to prop a stun/freeze on crit hit will not work in PvP. This is basically the norm gear for anyone still playing D3.

PvE broke PvP and blizzard has no clue how to fix it. It has nothing to do with rewards...
 
Jarnet87 said:
One sentence in particular points to all types of reasons why I hate Blizz sometimes.

"Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to makes gets old relatively quickly"

Um, not really Blizz. People just dueled because they enjoyed it a shit ton in D2. People did World PVP in WoW for no other reason because they thought it was loads of fun. I don't see why Blizzard has to force or give a reward or objective to PVP. I always enjoyed PVP when it's of the natural or organic nature and it's just fun to do, not forced. Way overthinking it. I loved world PVP in WoW, stuff like fighting at X Roads or Tauren Mill was amazing, and then they went and took a crap with stuff like Battlegrounds.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. I haven't played WoW in years but when I did, I used to like starting up shit at the crossroads. Me and a couple of friends, killing everyone until word got out and higher levels turned up to take us on and before long more joined and there was running battles everywhere, guilds were porting in, bedlam.

World pvp, where the incentive is to just pvp is the best pvp. No titles or scores, no prizes, just breathing life into the game.
 
you wanna know what fucked diablo 3? instanced loot and automatic partying. gg blizzard, called this shit at launch.
 
So what's up with Blizzard nowadays? Have they become too large for their own good?
According to wiki they had 4600 employees in 2009. It boggles my mind how this can happen, also considering the development time of the game.
 
Herbspicesoy said:
So what's up with Blizzard nowadays? Have they become too large for their own good?
According to wiki they had 4600 employees in 2009. It boggles my mind how this can happen, also considering the development time of the game.
Click to expand...

I think they laid off a bunch of people in the last several months but I'm not positive.
 
Herbspicesoy said:
So what's up with Blizzard nowadays? Have they become too large for their own good?
According to wiki they had 4600 employees in 2009. It boggles my mind how this can happen, also considering the development time of the game.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of that was customer support type positions for WoW, which I know they began to do heavy layoffs since the dip in popularity.
 
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