Support NeoGAF

[farnham]

They really should have played nice. It makes no sense to fight with the company who makes the damn game you're profiting off so much :lol

i heard that actually kespa demanded money from blizzard because they were "advertising" starcraft through their pro leagues :lol :lol

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

End of Broodwar tournaments

I really hope GomTV pickes up the slack after Kespa is no longer around to bully the players. Im sad to see the MSL and OSL go though, there is allot of history there.

 

[ghst]

i'm not sure you carry on calling it a sport at this point.

 

[farnham]

I really hope GomTV pickes up the slack after Kespa is no longer around to bully the players. Im sad to see the MSL and OSL go though, there is allot of history there.

gomtv will mainly focus on starcraft 2 as it is the hot thing right now and as they are having a lot of success with gsl. but i believe they will do sc1 tournaments too as it still makes money and they have the rights to do so.

 

[Pandaman]

What are the ramifications of this? Is Kespa going to get shut down?

we can only hope.

 

[Ronok]

here you go

Yes that would be illeagle. Publishers make money off of selling audio books.

I know it would be illegal to broadcast the audio book itself. I just wasn't 100% sure if that made it illegal to broadcast a reading from a completely different version. I assumed it did, but didn't want to make a ruling on it.

 

[farnham]

I know it would be illegal to broadcast the audio book itself. I just wasn't 100% sure if that made it illegal to broadcast a reading from a completely different version. I assumed it did, but didn't want to make a ruling on it.

whats the point of an audio book if you can just broadcast the reading of the book.

 

[Igo]

Kespa decided that if anyone wanted to broadcast SC games in Korea they had a buy a license from them. You cant exclusively license something you dont own.

When you start pulling shit like that you are gonna piss Blizz off.

Their SC games or all SC games? Kespa do sound like assholes but I think they should have the right to license the tournaments and leagues they produce.

Restricting their contracted players from participating in other competing leagues sound like standard sporting practice to me. The NFL and MLB certainly do this.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Their SC games or all SC games? Kespa do sound like assholes but I think they should have the right to license the tournaments and leagues they produce.

Restricting their contracted players from participating in other competing leagues sound like standard sporting practice to me. The NFL and MLB certainly do this.

Yeah as long as they have a license from Blizzard but they don't so they're fucked.

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

I know it would be illegal to broadcast the audio book itself. I just wasn't 100% sure if that made it illegal to broadcast a reading from a completely different version. I assumed it did, but didn't want to make a ruling on it.

Basically you need to get the rights for any use that generates money or impares the IP holders ability to make money. There are exceptions such as the first sale doctrine. Now that I think about it Blizzard could probably go after commentators making money off of videos on utube and other sites, Im sure they wouldnt as thats a PR disaster but they may make a deal with google to get a cut.

Their SC games or all SC gamees? Kespa do sound like assholes but I think they should have the right to license the tournaments and leagues they produce.

Restricting their contracted players from participating in other competing leagues sound like standard sporting practice to me. The NFL and MLB certainly do this.

Blizzard wanted to sell them a license and spent years trying to negotiate. Kespa basically just said fuck off we arent paying you.

 

[Mudkips]

Why the fuck would they announce this at a con?

Yes that would be illeagle.

No, this.

 

[Zizbuka]

By that logic I have the right to produce a harry potter movie because I bought one of the books.

Actually, no. It would be more like you have the right to read the book to a crowd. I guess the sticking point is if you charged people to listed to you reading the book.

Wait, is this the real reason LAN play got axed?

 

[HolyCheck]

Why the fuck would they announce this at a con?

Because they had all the korean media there in one spot and thus it's convenient!

 

[Tacitus_]

Actually, no. It would be more like you have the right to read the book to a crowd. I guess the sticking point is if you charged people to listed to you reading the book.

Wait, is this the real reason LAN play got axed?

And you'd go around telling other people that they can't read it out loud as well and demand that those that listened to you won't go to a different reader.

And yeah, that's a part of why LAN got axed, although Blizz will never admit it.

 

[Lostconfused]

You people can just pick up a book and read through the text that's written in the first few pages. Where it tells you that you cant reproduce the book in any way without consent, and something about front jackets and what not.

You also can't screen movies you buy either. Just in case you didn't know that either.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Would Ford sue for people broadcasting Mustang races and charging for it?

Nope. Most likely Ford would love it and consider it free advertising.

However this isn't quite the same thing.

 

[Igo]

You realize your radio station pays the band every single time they play their song right?

It's more like asking if the bands should be paid when if their music is played at a televised club. Or should a book publisher be paid if I held a book reading and charged people to sit and listen to me.

 

[Snow]

Actually, no. It would be more like you have the right to read the book to a crowd. I guess the sticking point is if you charged people to listed to you reading the book.

Wait, is this the real reason LAN play got axed?

I think the reason for no LAN is more to prevent something like ICCup. Getting an account that allows online play is a big selling point and deterrent to getting a pirate copy. Having LAN would make it a lot easier to make an alternative online matchmaking service, so I think the big reason is prevent that and make sure battle.net remains the sole online SC2 service for as long as possible.

 

[HolyCheck]

It's more like asking if the bands should be paid when if their music is played at a televised club. Or should a book publisher be paid if I held a book reading and charged people to sit and listen to me.

They are. Well should be (and I don't mean oh it's bad if they don't!) I mean theres governing bodies that monitor it so that they do, and if theyre not, then some ones slipping up

 

[Hazaro]

Blizz are in the right.

Yeah but they are still dicks since they did just about 0 for eSports and now come in at StarCraft's last hurrah to try and strangle the diminishing SC 1 scene.

 

[Kuga]

Blizzard didn't do much of anything for competitive SC1, and now they just want a piece of the pie. Hence no LAN play in SC2 (otherwise they wouldn't be able to remotely kill/ban players in "unofficial" tournaments)

On the other hand, Kespa is full of itself and deserves whatever it gets for being so adamant against concessions. It IS Blizzard's game and IP. Not a fan of the BW scene dying, but the Koreans need to get a grip.

 

[Tacitus_]

KESPA needs to get a grip, not Koreans. We <3 all things GomTV

 

[Ronok]

KESPA needs to get a grip, not Koreans. We <3 all things GomTV

Not all things, but they are doing a decent job.

 

[Hazaro]

KESPA needs to get a grip, not Koreans. We <3 all things GomTV

GOMTV never ran any leagues of note ever.

The 10 years of ProLeague and StarLeague they had no involvement of. That's the core of SC:BW right there.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

If this accelerates the decline and dismantling of KeSPA, I'm all for it. Fuck those guys.

 

[Tacitus_]

GOMTV never ran any leagues of note ever.

The 10 years of ProLeague and StarLeague they had no involvement of. That's the core of SC:BW right there.

They had the Averac-Intel tourney! But my point was mainly that saying Koreans need to get a grip is wrong since GomTV isn't behaving like KESPA.

 

[Ronok]

I was wondering. Will Gom allow those who were banned by KeSPA to play? And if so, will they even let those who were banned due to the match fixing scandal? :-/ I assume not, but I'm curious.

 

[HolyCheck]

I was wondering. Will Gom allow those who were banned by KeSPA to play? And if so, will they even let those who were banned due to the match fixing scandal? :-/ I assume not, but I'm curious.

They will def allow those banned by kespa, it's a contract thing to do with sc1 teams, Gom cares little. The match fixing guys, dunno would be interesting

p.s.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163043
TL using this thread as their source!

 

[syllogism]

Good riddance

 

[farnham]

GOMTV never ran any leagues of note ever.

The 10 years of ProLeague and StarLeague they had no involvement of. That's the core of SC:BW right there.

they are running gsl and so far gsl has been better then any proleague imho

I was wondering. Will Gom allow those who were banned by KeSPA to play? And if so, will they even let those who were banned due to the match fixing scandal? :-/ I assume not, but I'm curious.

i dont think gom will allow someone like ma jae yoon (savior)
but basically gsl is free to enter. everyone can participate if they win

 

[Snow]

They will def allow those banned by kespa, it's a contract thing to do with sc1 teams, Gom cares little. The match fixing guys, dunno would be interesting

p.s.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163043
TL using this thread as their source!

Man, so much mindless cheerleading in that thread for both sides. I like TL, but their forum doesn't have the greatest signal-to-noise ratio.

 

[farnham]

They will def allow those banned by kespa, it's a contract thing to do with sc1 teams, Gom cares little. The match fixing guys, dunno would be interesting

p.s.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163043
TL using this thread as their source!

internet -> gaf -> internet as usual :lol :lol

 

[Phenomic]

Why do I feel like not listening to Blizzard Activison's request about there own game isn't a good idea. I mean what is there net worth? I'm fairly sure they are printing money. I don't think they can compete with the lawyers they can have access too.

Nor does it sound like they have been overly sensitive and at least from the explanation I've read Blizzard has seemed pretty reasonable about this.

 

[Noshino]

Yeah but they are still dicks since they did just about 0 for eSports and now come in at StarCraft's last hurrah to try and strangle the diminishing SC 1 scene.

Wouldn't the fact that they have been trying to break a deal with KeSPA mean that they have indeed been trying to "do things for eSports"?

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

Man, so much mindless cheerleading in that thread for both sides. I like TL, but their forum doesn't have the greatest signal-to-noise ratio.

It is because they have fucking atrocious moderation policies where it is nearly impossible to get banned

 

[hamchan]

They will def allow those banned by kespa, it's a contract thing to do with sc1 teams, Gom cares little. The match fixing guys, dunno would be interesting

p.s.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163043
TL using this thread as their source!

Reading the comments at Team Liquid, I'm surprised at the number of people supporting Kespa and not Blizzard.

 

[FoxSpirit]

It is because they have fucking atrocious moderation policies where it is nearly impossible to get banned

"I don't know, maybe you are stupid. Maybe retarded. Don't you care for your multiple warnings and bans?"
User was temp banned for 1 week

Seriously, the basic moderation is fine but they have to become much more strict in actually banning people.

 

[farnham]

Reading the comments at Team Liquid, I'm surprised at the number of people supporting Kespa and not Blizzard.

read some of their comments and it looks like most of the people that like sc1 are still rooting for kespa as it is the only chance that sc1 will stay.

 

[Arzehn]

Reading the comments at Team Liquid, I'm surprised at the number of people supporting Kespa and not Blizzard.

Why is it surprising? We want BW leagues to continue and KESPA, MBCGame and OGN are the three main players in BW. Of course we're against Blizzard. The people who are with Blizzard are the ones who just now started with SC2, or those who just don't give a shit and just want to talk politics (ie most of this thread).

Anyway, I have a feeling as a foreign company in Korea Blizzard will not win this. Hopefully the Korean Department of Culture will step in (again).

 

[Snow]

Reading the comments at Team Liquid, I'm surprised at the number of people supporting Kespa and not Blizzard.

I think it's mostly that a lot of people there don't want the BW leagues to stop, and they see Kespa as the party that wants to keep that running and Blizzard as the party whose action possibly end those. Don't think there is much more to it than that.

 

[farnham]

Why is it surprising? We want BW leagues to continue and KESPA, MBCGame and OGN are the three main players in BW. Of course we're against Blizzard. The people who are with Blizzard are the ones who just now started with SC2, or those who just don't give a shit and just want to talk politics (ie most of this thread).

Anyway, I have a feeling as a foreign company in Korea Blizzard will not win this. Hopefully the Korean Department of Culture will step in (again).

you do realize that denying intellectual property of an american company could lead to international dispute ?

i dont think south korea can afford any quarrel with america.

also this is going to court and the legal situation is pretty clear.

kespa is saying. starcraft is a public good therefore we dont need to pay and also we have the right to charge for it (not making any legal or logical sense). i dont think any judge will buy that kind of argument just because they are korean and blizzard is not.

 

[HolyCheck]

Why is it surprising? We want BW leagues to continue and KESPA, MBCGame and OGN are the three main players in BW. Of course we're against Blizzard. The people who are with Blizzard are the ones who just now started with SC2, or those who just don't give a shit and just want to talk politics (ie most of this thread).

Anyway, I have a feeling as a foreign company in Korea Blizzard will not win this. Hopefully the Korean Department of Culture will step in (again).

Ok, it's what you want, are you arguing then out of passion? or can you not see it is incorrect legally?

 

[Jintor]

The other problem with the book analogy is that when you buy a book you buy a (copy of) the book, but when you buy a video game what you technically buy is a non-transferrable licence to use the software. You're a licencee, not an owner. Dunno if that affects IP rights to broadcast but I think it would.

Blizzard are probably in the right, since Starcraft is, after all, their goddamn product.

 

[farnham]

i heard that in the terms of content for starcraft there is a clause that you cant commercially reuse the product or something like that.

 

[Zzoram]

The sad part of this is OGN and MBCGame are the reason Starcraft even matters, but Blizzard is going to sue them to death. Even worse, MBC has stated before that they don't profit from their operation, they basically break even. It's not like they're rolling in cash, e-Sports is big in Korea but it's still just a big niche.

If Blizzard wins, they'll kill Broodwar to try to push Starcraft II harder, even if people still prefer to watch Broodwar. Also if Blizzard wins this, it also means everyone's youtube/livestream of themselves playing Starcraft II is owned by Blizzard.

 

[Technosteve]

The sad part of this is OGN and MBCGame are the reason Starcraft even matters, but Blizzard is going to sue them to death. Even worse, MBC has stated before that they don't profit from their operation, they basically break even. It's not like they're rolling in cash, e-Sports is big in Korea but it's still just a big niche.

Also if Blizzard wins this, it also means everyone's youtube/livestream of themselves playing Starcraft II is owned by Blizzard.

No you just need a license from blizzard if your doing a tournament for money prize.

 

[Forkball]

GEEK IS

Suing international television channels for broadcasting your games for profit.

 

[farnham]

The sad part of this is OGN and MBCGame are the reason Starcraft even matters, but Blizzard is going to sue them to death. Even worse, MBC has stated before that they don't profit from their operation, they basically break even. It's not like they're rolling in cash, e-Sports is big in Korea but it's still just a big niche.

If Blizzard wins, they'll kill Broodwar to try to push Starcraft II harder, even if people still prefer to watch Broodwar. Also if Blizzard wins this, it also means everyone's youtube/livestream of themselves playing Starcraft II is owned by Blizzard.

yes OGN and MBCgame did a lot

i would even argue that the existance of replays and some of the replay-observer features are direct derivatives of OGN and MBCgames ideas.

still they cant just ignore the IP of the people that actually made the game .

 

[Zzoram]

yes OGN and MBCgame did a lot

i would even argue that the existance of replays and some of the replay-observer features are direct derivatives of OGN and MBCgames ideas.

still they cant just ignore the IP of the people that actually made the game .

Even if Blizzard is legally right, what they're doing is bad for e-Sports. They seem to want more money than OGN/MBC can afford to pay (they mostly break even and need sponsors every season to even afford to run a tournament), and I bet Blizzard is asking for what they know to be too much because they really just want Broodwar to die to move South Korea towards SCII. Right now SCII is not a huge success in Korea because most people are still playing and watching Broodwar. Blizzard is trying to forcibly speed up a transition.

Blizzard knows there isn't much money to be made in Broodwar, but there is money to be made in killing Broodwar and hoping that people switch to Starcraft II and buy the game.

 

[farnham]

Even if Blizzard is legally right, what they're doing is bad for e-Sports. They seem to want more money than OGN/MBC can afford to pay (they mostly break even and need sponsors every season to even afford to run a tournament), and I bet Blizzard is asking for what they know to be too much because they really just want Broodwar to die to move South Korea towards SCII. Right now SCII is not a huge success in Korea because most people are still playing and watching Broodwar. Blizzard is trying to forcibly speed up a transition.

Blizzard knows there isn't much money to be made in Broodwar, but there is money to be made in killing Broodwar and hoping that people switch to Starcraft II and buy the game.

if OGN and MBC are broke why are they paying kespa ? it makes no sense at all imo.

and you are wrong. starcraft 2 is way more succesful then sc1 right now. maybe not in the pc bangs as you got to play it for free on your homecomputer for like two month. just compare VOD numbers for GSL and the current Ongamenet stuff its like 2000 vs. 1 million

actually the boxer match got 1,7million views.

the latest jaedong and flash matches got something like 10000 views.

its pretty clear what is more popular in korea