Thanks Guys!
Also did anyone get anything to happen in the telescope room before Rom at the top? I never revisited it to see!
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Thanks Guys!
Also did anyone get anything to happen in the telescope room before Rom at the top? I never revisited it to see!
Aztechnology
Member
Anyone find any dialogue options for the Ring of Betrothal or the Mensis Cage yet? Or are they simply lore pieces?
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
I've read that you can propose to Vileblood Queen with the ring and she says no, but i haven't found it yet so i can't confirm it.
Central Yharnam clearly *is* the center of the city but it seems reasonable that prior to being sealed Old Yharnam was as its name denotes it was the area where they city was founded, which generally tends to remain the city center.
Gherman's reference to communion is likely a tie in to the Pthumeru chalice's reference to it, about going into the Labyrinth and communing in the sense of "to interchange or sharing of thoughts or emotions; intimate communication: " as opposed to some kind of eucharistic service. If the chalice was the source of the ashen plague because its the only special thing about Old Yharnam as you say then do you think there wouldnt be any confusion about the plague? The plagues referred to as baffling, implicitly they dont know where it came from or how it spreads. Which would be rather unlikely if only a subset of people all infected by the same vector were the original victims.
The ring lets you propose to Annalise Edit: As Sephiroth_GR_, thats just what Ive read so likewise cant confirm it
Inkvoterad
Member
So who are the powder kegs? Is it Djura and that guy below in old yarnham?
Rifle spear and stake driver's descriptions both start with "A trick weapon fashioned by the workshop heretics, the Powder Kegs."
What do they mean with workshop heretics, and who the fuck are the powder kegs.
God that name is fucking badass, we mecha anime now.
Rifle spear and stake driver's descriptions both start with "A trick weapon fashioned by the workshop heretics, the Powder Kegs."
What do they mean with workshop heretics, and who the fuck are the powder kegs.
God that name is fucking badass, we mecha anime now.
Far as we know they're a dead order of hunters. I presume they were hunters set in charge of old yharnam who were left there with the beasts when it was sealed off.
Why they're heretics could be any number of reasons. Might be their preference for loud weapons, might be because they sympathize with the beasts, might be because they no longer dream.
pretty sure some of his armor refers to him as a sympathetic, naive man.
Inkvoterad
Member
Since the guy down below Djura walks around all casually i'm wondering if they found a way to tame the beasts or some shit. Doubt he's gone mad since i feel like Eileen would have had something to say there.
I think he's more or less being straight with you when he gives you that spiel upon first entering Old Yharnam. Old Yharnam is populated by people who have fallen fully to the Ashen Plague, everyone you kill there was a human who got sick and became a beast. Theyre the only people in Old Yharnam, which is sealed off from everywhere else. So Djura is basically right when he says theyre no threat to anyone, you rock into Old Yharnam and start slaughtering "innocent" beasts.
Inkvoterad
Member
Ah yeah, the caps description says this:
"Attire of the retired hunter Djura.
This worn wolf cap was his trademark.
Djura is known through his contact with the Powder Kegs, the heretics of the workshop. He is said to have been both uncommonly kind and dreadfully foolish.
Djura felt defeated by the state of Old Yharnam and renounced his hunter's vows."
God this npc is the fucking best. This cap also has the highest beasthood rating in the game, i'm pretty sure.
From who's perspective? Part of the fun of the quotes is we don't know who or what is giving them, or what their motivations are.
From the perspective of the church that wants the beasts slain, he and his kind are all heretical for abandoning the hunt.
Also random question - why do people keep referring to the three cord ending as the 'true' ending?
From what I can tell, the only ending that doesn't suck for you is getting booted out of the dream and fucking off out of that cursed city forever, too bad if they get another cycle of hunts. Whatever was afflicting you before you came to Yharnam, better to croak to that than become ascendant slugworm.
Inkvoterad
Member
Yeah i know that, but wondering how the guy down there managed to stay out of combat.
maybe its just videogames being videogames (probably is), would have been cool if they turned like beast-masters or some shit.
Dominic_Shade
Member
Yeesh, that sounds like the perfect set-up for some Forest Hunters-esque PvP.
I've a feeling its just videogames being videogames, its not clear if the un-named NPC hunters are even actually hunters from "your world" or just NPC invaders i.e. the hunters from other worlds the messages in the Hunters Dream tutorial messages mention. Djura certainly is part of your world and he spends his time high up on a building away from the beasts, for what its worth
Aztechnology
Member
Ahh the more I think of it my theory of manufactured memories doesn't hold much water. It's still entirely possible the hunt is a test to find one capable of ascension. But I give up on the other theory after delving into it a bit further. I am almost positive that the nightmare of Mensis has already happened though. So The question I'm asking is, is Mergo actually the child that the game keeps referring to? Is the child trying to be born unnamed, or was it us the whole time? (Someone that found their way through the trials to become a great one.)
Theres a few candidates for the "nightmare child" I'd say, theres the One Reborn, theres whatever was in the pram in the Nightmare of Mensis (which is heavily implied by the presence of the wet nurse to be Mergo), Arianna's beautiful boy and Impostor Iosefka's child. It tells you to kill the child and to get the "true" ending you have to kill at least the One Reborn and either Arianna's or Iosefka's child (or both). So by that logic they would seem to be the most logical candidates for the label. In short, I dont think its Mergo. The child could be a reference to you yourself, a possible surrogate for whatever Great One is in rut during this particular visitiation. Which would be funny as the game would be urging your character to suicide (which is also why its probably not you).
Edit: Totally forgot that, as pointed out below you get a Cord of the Eye after killing the wet nurse, so quite possibly do kill Mergo off-screen
The game item description?
I'm fairly sure the item description is objective in its assessments. And we've no idea who considers him heretical. Eileen considers all of Yharnam heretical. The Cainhursts and the church consider each other heretical.
It could be the hunters proper who consider his ilk heretical. Not really specified.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I assumed Durja was considered a heretic simply because he protects beasts instead of killing them, which is the only thing Hunters are for. That's why he's cut off from the Dream.
I think Mergo has to be the child if only because you don't win the game until you kill Mergo's Wetnurse, right?
I think Mergo has to be the child if only because you don't win the game until you kill Mergo's Wetnurse, right?
But Mergo's wetnurse is, definitionally, not Mergo. I mean possibly Mergo might die after her death from neglect if we assume she fulfills a role analagous to a normal wet nurse but the only children you actually kill are Arianna's and/or Impostor Iosfeka's (and the One Reborn if its a child). So if killing the child is what makes it the "nightmare child" then I dont think it can be Mergo.
Edit: Totally forgot that, as pointed out below you get a Cord of the Eye after killing the wet nurse, so quite possibly do kill Mergo off-screen
I'm not sure if that's the case since Eileen is also cut off from the dream and she seems rather in line with protocol. By which I mean being heretical being the reason you're cut off from the dream, may be one of the reasons or not at all.
Aztechnology
Member
We never actually see that she's taking care of Mergo even in the dream. It saying wet nurse doesn't mean that Mergo isn't already completely grown up even in that nightmare. It just means she was the one to sustain Mergo as an infant. I highly doubt Mergo is the child we are searching for in the game.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Seriously i want to know how can we interact with the Rom statue/corpse in Ebrietas's room, its driving me nuts.
Raven Prime
Member
There's a baby carriage, the sound of a crying baby and you get a third umbilical from defeating that boss.
It's where you revive the Vileblood queen.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
:O So maybe that's why Ebrietas is there? Trying to revive Rom?
Beelzebufo
Banned
That might not be Rom, but simply another person given eyes by Kos (or some say Kosm). Ebreitas is daughter of the Kosm(os).
Also, for whoever said Moon Presence might be connected to Oedon, both the message in the Gaol about beckoning the moon and the Oedon runes say people are surreptitiously seeking.
Also, for whoever said Moon Presence might be connected to Oedon, both the message in the Gaol about beckoning the moon and the Oedon runes say people are surreptitiously seeking.
Maybe you need one of those "phantom items" that are in the wikis but have no details on what they are or how to get them, possibly because theyre no longer in the game/fake e.g. http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Avolina%27s+Doll / http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Broken+Trinket / http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Old+Library+Key / etc.
Totally forgot you get the cord of eyes from beating her, unless she hung onto it as a grisly token it does seem to imply you killed Mergo (just like they dont show you rooting around in Impostor Iosfeka's stomach). Considering in all three ending paths you will be told to kil the nightmare child and Mergo is the only one you are guaranteed to kill then her probably is the nightmare child (which seems a little odd as it seems to be heavily implied that he's Yharnam's so has been around for ages, certainly long before the current issues as Mensis (BB's Mensa) met him. So maybe Mergo is a mis-direct and you only kill the "true" nightmare child in the complete/true/extended ending - which would make it Arianna's or Impostor Isoefka's (or the One reborn - I'm rooting for you big guy)
You can fucking revive her? Is that what her remains are for?
Raven Prime
Member
Yes.
That's so freaking cool. I've gotta try that this time around.
Though really you're not reviving her so much as putting her back together, I think they explicitly say that she's immortal and if you listen to Albert's full rant he just talks about mashing her up and challenges her to put herself back together (and if you examine the remains it says something abou them pulsing)
Eberitas is clearly in love with Rom and the thing in her room is a freaky sex doll of Rom. Remember, its not how many eyes you have, its the motion of the cosmos.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Watching the latest ENB video. In his opinion the skull in the Grand Cathedral is Laurence's and he also thinks Laurence is the founder of the Church
What I'm putting together is this:
The Odeon-powered blood you got transfused into you puts you into the hunt dream.
This blood connects you to the Great Ones and grants you immortality of sort, a part of their power, insight reinforce that connection and makes you able to see/interact with the crazy shit from the Great Ones world. The Yarhnam real world is still the real world, you just are granted awesome blood power and traveling between planes of reality/dream.
Usually the souls game have at least a bit of an explanation of why you don't really die, and I think Odeon's having divine power over you through blood is a good one for that.
Also, I don't think the Celestial Emissary is an alien. Instead it might actually be what the Healing Church made in order to get in touch with the Great Ones. It's the emissary from us to them. Which also explain how Iosefka got turned into one by the impostor girl.
The Odeon-powered blood you got transfused into you puts you into the hunt dream.
This blood connects you to the Great Ones and grants you immortality of sort, a part of their power, insight reinforce that connection and makes you able to see/interact with the crazy shit from the Great Ones world. The Yarhnam real world is still the real world, you just are granted awesome blood power and traveling between planes of reality/dream.
Usually the souls game have at least a bit of an explanation of why you don't really die, and I think Odeon's having divine power over you through blood is a good one for that.
Also, I don't think the Celestial Emissary is an alien. Instead it might actually be what the Healing Church made in order to get in touch with the Great Ones. It's the emissary from us to them. Which also explain how Iosefka got turned into one by the impostor girl.
Aztechnology
Member
The baby carriage is Symbolism, and we know there was no actual child in the carriage. As to the fact she had a piece of umbilical cord that doesn't really mean much, we found one in the hunters dream site underneath the church as well. It's entirely possible she had the cord from when she raised Mergo. That doesn't actually prove Mergo is a child at the time of the nightmare or that Mergo is the one we are looking for.
Beelzebufo
Banned
i just think he's incredibly old and frail.
It just dawned on me how fucked up it is to have you killing a baby (Arianna's) in the game, and I wonder if the reason why they both die together is so if you stab only the baby, From can excuse it by saying you missed and stabbed both, and that it's not possible to target and kill the baby.
When the game was being submitted for a rating to CERO in Japan, they initially were told that the game would get a Z rating, but that's a big problem because you 1) can't advertise on TV and 2) can't make display cases in electronic stores, so it really affects sales. The reason they were given it'd be Z is that the player can kill innocents. Sony told them that they aren't innocent, they're enemies, and they resubmitted for a rating. I think it might have been referring to the newborn baby you kill.
I know this because my friend worked on the box art and told me that this all went down the week of going gold, so he had to submit two pieces of artwork to the printer, one in the case of Z rating and one in case they lowered the rating to D. The day they'd find out about the new rating was literally the day of printing. As it happens, it was lowered to D in the end.
When the game was being submitted for a rating to CERO in Japan, they initially were told that the game would get a Z rating, but that's a big problem because you 1) can't advertise on TV and 2) can't make display cases in electronic stores, so it really affects sales. The reason they were given it'd be Z is that the player can kill innocents. Sony told them that they aren't innocent, they're enemies, and they resubmitted for a rating. I think it might have been referring to the newborn baby you kill.
I know this because my friend worked on the box art and told me that this all went down the week of going gold, so he had to submit two pieces of artwork to the printer, one in the case of Z rating and one in case they lowered the rating to D. The day they'd find out about the new rating was literally the day of printing. As it happens, it was lowered to D in the end.
Perhaps you had a special mix of blood?
Also it seems you're not the only one to have been part of the Hunter's Dream. Most hunters you meet know of it, and eventually left it behind.
The backstory for Bloodborne sounds very close to RubyQuest.
I suggest looking up RubyQuest when you guys are able, it's a really good classic.
Found a site of some old god. Discovered that it's blood (or flesh) cures any disease or illness but causes people to go mad and turn into horrible things. And it has cycled many times after finding it. It even does the trick of having a supposed theme in the beginning then turning into eldtrich horror theme after a certain point. Point for point it's amazing how close they are.
GatticusFinch
Member
I haven't read all the posts in here, but I didn't see this mentioned in the first 10 pages or the last few:
Mensis is Latin (and derived from even older languages from what I gather) for month, which was derived from the time period for menstruation, which is blood.
I'm certain they named the School that for a reason, but I'm not sure there is any meaning beyond the superficial one attached to it.
Or we can start getting 2deep5me with menstruation being god's punishment to Eve (original sin) for eating from the tree of knowledge and gaining insight.
Mensis is Latin (and derived from even older languages from what I gather) for month, which was derived from the time period for menstruation, which is blood.
I'm certain they named the School that for a reason, but I'm not sure there is any meaning beyond the superficial one attached to it.
Or we can start getting 2deep5me with menstruation being god's punishment to Eve (original sin) for eating from the tree of knowledge and gaining insight.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Laurence starting the healing church makes sense. Willem doesn't just not like the "old blood", he dislikes all blood. The rune workshop tool says Willem would be proud of runes because they don't use blood.
Aztechnology
Member
I had read the Etymology also refers to moon or moon month/month of the moon, so it's just a double whammy.
The veracity, if you will, of ENB's videos is a little unclear to me. Are they simply a pre-cursor to the "official" lore explanation in the guide and if so mirror it? Are they simply his "personal opinion" and if so is that opinion informed simply by whats in the game or with the insider knowledge he has from doing the guide?
He was one of the first doing complete lore explanations on Youtube for Dark Souls 1. He's trying to continue that with Bloodborne but he's also got a guide to sell.
You can expect that he knows some key details that will appear in the guide, but for much of the story he's filling in the gaps like we are. But he's rather good at filling in the gaps, so there are two good reasons to listen to his thoughts.