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Bloodborne vs. Sekiro
- Thread starter .Pennywise
- Start date
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Sekiro ain't even get a DLC [yet / ever]. It's not a fair fight.
(I think Sekiro will age like Ashina sake alongside Bloodborne. Gimme a rematch in 3 years...)
(I think Sekiro will age like Ashina sake alongside Bloodborne. Gimme a rematch in 3 years...)
KormaChameleon
Member
Unfair for me to voted as I never played Sekiro, I've heard mixed things about Sekiro in terms of gameplay but if I was to vote. No doubt, Bloodborne.
KormaChameleon
Member
git gud. On a serious notes, take it slow, keep your shield up, circle strafe and roll, learn your enemies attack patterns.
Team Andromeda
Member
Both overrated and both not fun games at all
CrysisFreak
Banned
Heresy...
Dark Souls 1 is easier to get into IMO. Demon's environments are designed to kill you.
Do few things and do them better than anyone else.
This is what Sekiro embodies.
It is hands down the best melee combat system I have ever experienced in any game. The combat feel amazing and LOOKS GOOD! LOOKING GOOD is such an important point. If you cannot admit that rolling into the feet of giant enemies is goofy and looks stupid, then you will not understand why Sekiro was such a breath of fresh air. People always prioritized the feel of the combat over the less intentional but more visually appealing combat systems of other games. Sekiro shattered the conception that souls like gameplay and being cinematic as fuck were two mutually exclusive things that could not coexist. The tension of exchanging blows is unparalleled. Only people who have been conditioned to approach combat a certain way from older FROMSOFT games find Sekiro jarring.
Additionally I will make this point once again.
Please do not conflate volume for quality (1,000,000,000 weapon combinations!!!, world map 300x the size of GTAV!!!!!, 32 different endings!). All of this is fluff. If the core is excellent it can stand on its own. Sekiro stands on its own.
The core of the game is better. The parry system is a great innovation and leap forward for soul's like games. It allowed for an increase in pace of combat while looking fucking beautiful. I expect some variant of the parry system in all FROMSOFT games going forward (including Elden Ring). Not doing so would be going backwards, and not so for practical reasons, but rather because angry fans refuse to adapt.
Now, aesthetic preferences come into the equation. Fantasy Feudal Japan or Victorian Gothic Horror, Playstation fanboy or clear minded individual, etc... These I weigh substantially less.
Sekiro all the way. Bloodborne is cool as well.
Neil Young
Member
Bloodborne was one of my favorite games if all time. I thought Sekiro was just too difficult and it reached the point where I knew I couldnt progress, I could not get good. That boss with the bow and arrow broke me. It took me 40 tries to beat his first form, I was so excited...THEN his second form. I never went back to the game.
Laconian Sword
Member
I think this is the crux of it: Sekiro feels "empty" because it focuses on fewer but much more skilled enemies rather than mobs of zombies. You have to strategize for both to some extent, but Sekiro doesn't ever let you off the hook; you have to do it straight without the benefit of invincibility frames, magic, or plain old luck. It's a minimalistic experience that forces you to truly git gud in a way no other Soulsborne has to date. I felt like I was forged into a real warrior by the end!
Bloodborne, on the other hand, is a very ornate experience in comparison, pretty much the opposite of Sekiro. That's cool too, it's incredible in its own right, but I feel like Sekiro actually elevated the whole genre and accomplished something entirely new.
That said, I finished Bloodborne back when it came out and I'm honestly puzzled by the out of control hype around it these days. It deserves tons of praise, yes, but I didn't think it was the sublime experience it's made out to be now even though it's one of my favourite games.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Sekiro "broke" the entire Soulsborne legacy. It was tailor-made to frustrate all the old tactics, old exploits, old ways of advancing through a Soulsborne game.
Hate to say it... but Soulsborne got too casual. The games are very tough, but they began to retread the same tropes and territory. Combat was adjusted and refined, but at the end of the day it's still about walking halfway up the stairs and quickly moving out of the way before that flaming boulder hits you. It has been that way since Demon's.
Sekiro gives you infinite stamina, the ability to jump, a superior block, encourages you to be aggressive, etc etc and this would normally break a Soulsborne game. Sekiro challenges a player's skills to the limits yet provides several of the best tools from the beginning. Clearly there's something more going on here. It's not just "too hard" when it objectively gives the players so many easy-buttons compared to prior Souls games.
Y yugoluke described the combat very well. Quoting below:
Demon's Souls forced you to git good in a way no other third-person action RPGs had to date. Checkpoints were spaced far apart. You lost your progress (souls) if you died without recovering your bloodstain, you could get killed by online invaders, you could get killed by one of countless devious traps, etc etc.
All subsequent Soulsborne games followed this same core pattern: be cautious, don't rush forward, conserve stamina, watch for ambushes
I think a certain segment of Soulsborne players felt "left out" by Sekiro and that is the core of the criticism. There is no online helper-buddy system. The RPG elements are not robust enough to compensate for bad skill (grinding isn't viable). You can't use the old tricks. Even a seasoned Soulsborne player (*raises hand*) must "git gud" all over again when they are confronted by Sekiro. This happened with Bloodborne: a portion of the core Souls community disliked the de-emphasis on armor, the removal of shields, the removal of ranged combat, the removal of most free backstabs, and so forth.
Sekiro did "remove" a lot of things, but it expanded other things. There has never been a true "stealth" build in Soulsborne even though all the games reward stealth to some degree. Well now you have an entire game to yourself. Traversal and jump-attacks have been in all prior games as well, but they've been clunky (at best). Sekiro refined traversal and jumping and tied it into the combat system. Backstabs are not only back but Sekiro offers countless ways to backstab and instakill enemies. There's a move that one-shots any enemy monk in the game, for instance. If Sekiro should be slammed for omitting things, it should be praised in the instances where it was expanding and perfecting things.
In time, I expect more and more players will return to Sekiro as it continues to build a reputation as "too hard". Those who've taken a break from Soulsborne and folks who are going in with a fresh perspective will likely do fine at the game, no worse than if they were picking up Bloodborne or Souls for the first time.
And then they'll beat it and post "why did GAF say this game was way too hard? I just beat Sekiro in two weeks" and then everyone will show up and talk about how they always said the game was the easiest game in the entire franchise, you just needed to master the mechanics etc etc etc
How do I know this? Because the same thing happens every time a new Souls game comes out, ever since Dark Souls 2.
Hate to say it... but Soulsborne got too casual. The games are very tough, but they began to retread the same tropes and territory. Combat was adjusted and refined, but at the end of the day it's still about walking halfway up the stairs and quickly moving out of the way before that flaming boulder hits you. It has been that way since Demon's.
Sekiro gives you infinite stamina, the ability to jump, a superior block, encourages you to be aggressive, etc etc and this would normally break a Soulsborne game. Sekiro challenges a player's skills to the limits yet provides several of the best tools from the beginning. Clearly there's something more going on here. It's not just "too hard" when it objectively gives the players so many easy-buttons compared to prior Souls games.
Y yugoluke described the combat very well. Quoting below:
I wanna piggyback off this because in many respects Sekiro is the most "Souls" since Demon's Souls.
Demon's Souls forced you to git good in a way no other third-person action RPGs had to date. Checkpoints were spaced far apart. You lost your progress (souls) if you died without recovering your bloodstain, you could get killed by online invaders, you could get killed by one of countless devious traps, etc etc.
All subsequent Soulsborne games followed this same core pattern: be cautious, don't rush forward, conserve stamina, watch for ambushes
I think a certain segment of Soulsborne players felt "left out" by Sekiro and that is the core of the criticism. There is no online helper-buddy system. The RPG elements are not robust enough to compensate for bad skill (grinding isn't viable). You can't use the old tricks. Even a seasoned Soulsborne player (*raises hand*) must "git gud" all over again when they are confronted by Sekiro. This happened with Bloodborne: a portion of the core Souls community disliked the de-emphasis on armor, the removal of shields, the removal of ranged combat, the removal of most free backstabs, and so forth.
Sekiro did "remove" a lot of things, but it expanded other things. There has never been a true "stealth" build in Soulsborne even though all the games reward stealth to some degree. Well now you have an entire game to yourself. Traversal and jump-attacks have been in all prior games as well, but they've been clunky (at best). Sekiro refined traversal and jumping and tied it into the combat system. Backstabs are not only back but Sekiro offers countless ways to backstab and instakill enemies. There's a move that one-shots any enemy monk in the game, for instance. If Sekiro should be slammed for omitting things, it should be praised in the instances where it was expanding and perfecting things.
In time, I expect more and more players will return to Sekiro as it continues to build a reputation as "too hard". Those who've taken a break from Soulsborne and folks who are going in with a fresh perspective will likely do fine at the game, no worse than if they were picking up Bloodborne or Souls for the first time.
And then they'll beat it and post "why did GAF say this game was way too hard? I just beat Sekiro in two weeks" and then everyone will show up and talk about how they always said the game was the easiest game in the entire franchise, you just needed to master the mechanics etc etc etc
How do I know this? Because the same thing happens every time a new Souls game comes out, ever since Dark Souls 2.
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
just finished my 8th time through Sekiro last night! that final boss is the best boss fight From has ever done.
still, you just take one look at Bloodborne. that art design is just god tier.
sorry, Sekiro, have to vote BB.
still, you just take one look at Bloodborne. that art design is just god tier.
sorry, Sekiro, have to vote BB.
BathanKaitos
Neo Member
For Hardcore not even a little bit of crybaby players Bloodborne. (You can even pull your hair off out of madness)
For Action and mediocore players Sekiro. Most of players can literally play peacefully.
If i have to choose, my choice would be Sekiro. I dont want to get Heartattack or Cancer because of a game.
For Action and mediocore players Sekiro. Most of players can literally play peacefully.
If i have to choose, my choice would be Sekiro. I dont want to get Heartattack or Cancer because of a game.
Elder Legend
Banned
Bloodborne
Better setting
Better art direction
Better gameplay
Sekiro's theme is extremely boring to me.
Better setting
Better art direction
Better gameplay
Sekiro's theme is extremely boring to me.
GAMETA
Banned
Nah. All that you see as good I see as bad.
1- Value how the combat looks over how it plays? Are you watching or playing the game?
Funny enough, the most amazing, epic and visually appealing boss battle is the Dragon you get the tears from, and it plays like a Zelda boss, not the usual Sekiro or even Souls ones. Your point on how combat looks then is completely subjective.
2- A single weapon and play style isn't better than the Souls class and weapon system, Souls arealdy do very well in combat, the way you say makes it seem like Sekiro is miles ahead in game design and play, it isn't, not from DS3 at least.
Sekiro's combat, for me, feels lacking. Unlike Souls, you're forced to play it in a single way. There's no different path, there's no different approach. A lot of times defending felt like QTEs. What's the fun in this? I saw none.
3- Who said anything about the size of the world, I'm talking world building, what's in it, its visual aesthetic, its atmosphere. Sekiro is pretty bland and centered on Ashina, it doesn't feel grand or epic or visually appealing as Souls/BB do. But here I agree that it's completely subjective. I'm no fan of feudal japan, I didn't like Nioh's world building/levels as well, just not my cup of tea.
Fbh
Member
Man this is really hard. Love both games.
Sekiro has amazing combat, great bosses (best final boss ever IMO) and I love how it adds verticality to the already amazing level design FROM has become known for.
But at the same time I love the world and setting of Bloodborne, I love the way it slowly shifts from "traditional" horror to cosmic horror, it also has great combat and some amazing bosses, and the weapons and equipment are more varied than those in Sekiro which gives it better replay value.
I'd be fine with either of them winning but my vote goes to Bloodborne.
I really like this format.
It's actually getting people to talk about specific match ups which I think is fun.
A big poll would just be the usual boring list thread.
Sekiro has amazing combat, great bosses (best final boss ever IMO) and I love how it adds verticality to the already amazing level design FROM has become known for.
But at the same time I love the world and setting of Bloodborne, I love the way it slowly shifts from "traditional" horror to cosmic horror, it also has great combat and some amazing bosses, and the weapons and equipment are more varied than those in Sekiro which gives it better replay value.
I'd be fine with either of them winning but my vote goes to Bloodborne.
I really like this format.
It's actually getting people to talk about specific match ups which I think is fun.
A big poll would just be the usual boring list thread.
LarknThe4th
Member
Bloodborne is one of the real reasons to get a PS4, excellent game!
CrysisFreak
Banned
Sekiro is so goddamn beautiful that its combat system is like a dance, your eyes glued to the screen, every animation is perfect, every single thing is fair, every single mistake is on you, every single sound of swords clashing makes you harder than you already are and in the very end you either master it or you get cucked and give up.
It's the Trackmania of Soulsborne games, it is just that precise and fair.
If it does not get a sequel, I will dedicate my life to creating the ultimate spiritual successor.
It's the Trackmania of Soulsborne games, it is just that precise and fair.
If it does not get a sequel, I will dedicate my life to creating the ultimate spiritual successor.
Fair enough, we all value different things.
To address a few of your points.
1 - Nothing in my post is about valuing how it looks OVER how it plays, but rather acknowledging that the way it looks has now been upgraded in a major way. Not just atmospheric, or character art but the actual combat. It looks really good. Better than how combat in other FROMSOFT games looks. This would include how you move around the enemy, the look at the moment of the clash, the counters and ninja arts you could learn and execute. There is a fluidity to it that lends itself to look more natural. Transitions between combos and connecting attacks and reading and reacting to enemy attacks and movements all looks really good. Better than in other FROMSOFT games.
2/3 - The reference to size of world, and volume of options was to highlight that very often companies will tout all of these "choice and options" and receive praise from the gaming community, whereas the game and underlying mechanics can be underwhelming and subpar (aka. all of this open world fatigue that many people talk about). This is not to suggest that FROMSOFT games suffer from this, but rather that I prefer something that is all killer and no filler. A lean experience that excels in the few things on offer will always appeal to me more than a game that feels the need to lead with the amount of options they have.
Additionally it is quite obvious that in other Souls games, there were weapons that felt way better than others. Mechanics and movement sets were more varied and some came through feeling better than others. Obviously time had to be split, and it could be seen where the considerations and development time was spent. When there is a constraint in the weapons used, there is obvious refinement that shines through, as was the case in Sekiro. More focus on less things. Just resource allocation, and finite time and development dollars. It was something that was materially felt in Sekiro. Limiting the scope to sword combat in Sekiro made sword combat the best it has been in the studio's history.
SuperGooey
Member
I didn't enjoy Sekiro at all, meanwhile Bloodborne is my game of the generation.
Bloodborne, for me!
Bloodborne, for me!
Flying Toaster
Member
I am a huge fan of Bloodbornes theme. It hands down my game o f the generation.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I guess for people who likes PVP and co-op, for me personally I never bothered with online in any Souls games because my goal with those games is take on interesting enemies and bosses and explore its world alone.
Sekiro may not have "multiple build" like other Souls games since its an action game rather than RPG but one thing it has is the satisfaction of mastering the combat.....at least for me.
I find it highly enjoyable re-fighting bosses once you understand how the combat works, this why I replayed Sekiro multiple times until I got platinum.
Aion002
Member
It's really great indeed and when the combat "clicks" it's amazing, I finished 5 times to get the plat and I still replay it from time to time.
However, I do enjoy helping people out online and making different builds, so for me BB has the edge.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
Problem with Sekiro's difficulty is there's less options to deal with it, even Bloodborne has less options for difficult encounters than the Dark Souls trilogy, to be fair, it feels like with each new game they're both refining their craft but also limiting the scope of what you can do
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Watch the video I posted above, the way this guy uses the arts and shinobi tools are crazy good.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I'm not saying there aren't options but it's definitely less than the Souls games. Bloodborne was very similar, figure out the game's rhythm or fail but it's more believable people can get through that whole game without parrying for instance. There's things like different armor sets, character classes, weapons, etc. though in Bloodborne the armor sets rarely really mattered and the different types of builds only felt really possible late game, maybe I'm wrong? There's a person out there who got a big kick out of Dark Souls and they cheesed most bosses with arrows and magic or some shit is what I'm saying. I mean... the first time I played Dark Souls III I made it a third of the way in before figuring out I was fat rolling (Bloodborne was my first Souls so I didn't know this was a thing) because I finally hit a boss that wasn't allowing that shit. Can you imagine not having something so important nailed down in Sekiro and getting a third of the way through?
NorthernSword
Member
Bloodborne is the best PS4 exclusive for sure. I love Sekiro but Bloobborne has better enemy designs and gameplay variety. Also the Chalice Dungeons where decent for generic maze type content. Sekiro is incredible though and just as good at what it does for sure but Bloodborne offers more.
Esca
Member
I voted Bloodborne. I was very good at that game, the combat just clicked with me, one shotted 4 or 5 bosses which for me in a soul game is nuts, I've one shotted like 1 or 2 bosses in the rest of souls games combined. Everything about the game was perfect.
Sekiro I really liked but I could not progress any further as it was too difficult for me, the combat didn't click with me as I'm horrible at parrying
Sekiro I really liked but I could not progress any further as it was too difficult for me, the combat didn't click with me as I'm horrible at parrying
Grind through it. You start learning the game and it gets easier. The hardest time anyone has is usually the first section of the first souls game they play
CrysisFreak
Banned
Preach.
I straight up cannot come up with an improvement.
MisterBrimstone
Member
Lack of multiplayer. It added a lot to the souls series.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Playing Sekiro right now, I love flying through it. It is way easier to do a boss rush in this game and just run through slashing people at will no need to level up or farm for health vials. Almost reminds me of NES Ninja Gaiden: that pace of action game.
So cool that From was able to experiment with that format. When you look at how different these two games are from one another, and how they both totally excel at what they are doing, you gotta hand it to From Software. They are on fire right now.
So cool that From was able to experiment with that format. When you look at how different these two games are from one another, and how they both totally excel at what they are doing, you gotta hand it to From Software. They are on fire right now.
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Laconian Sword
Member
"Easier" with a big asterisk next to it
But yeah, it's all up to you and your skill. You should be able to breeze through if you've put the work in. Mastery is undervalued these days.
iconmaster
Banned
My friend, that is how.
However, most of Miyazaki's games are not as hard as they seem at first. If you persist in them, the game will help you along with better equipment, upgrades and jolly co-op (both human and NPC). I hear Sekiro is the exception: no leveling, so you really do have to just git gud.
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HE1NZ
Banned
Damn I was thinking of starting with Sekiro. In Demon's Souls I can't even tell what loot stats are without looking it up. It's some weird runes.