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[always crazy bacon]

Looks OK to me.

 

[Adam_Vania]

seems unfair to compare a 2.5D game built of 3D models to 2D sprite animation. imo the lighting is pretty cool and has variations. yes the game is looking pretty bright overall so far, but so has every Castlevania.

 

[dragonzdogma]

People in this thread seem clueless that there was already a playable demo that was available at E3 and distributed to KS backers.

Here's how the game looks and plays in this early stage in 4K:
https://youtu.be/X23akP4RtgI

Yep, we got another MN.9 going here! :eyesrollingsohardicanseemybrain

Pretty much this-
This reminds me of how bad KOF 14 looks due to the horrible compression of youtube
but when I fire it up on my ps4 it looks great.

 

[Jacksinthe]

You explain this very accurately and much more better than I could. You gotta be a dev yourself too, right?

We'll find out if I'm a dev when our game hits PS4 and PC - until then I do my best

 

[LordKasual]

People who dislike 2.5D clearly aren't familiar with Arc System Works

Pretty much this-
This reminds me of how bad KOF 14 looks due to the horrible compression of youtube
but when I fire it up on my ps4 it looks great.

KOF14 is...just not much of a looker, really.

People in this thread seem clueless that there was already a playable demo that was available at E3 and distributed to KS backers.

Here's how the game looks and plays in this early stage in 4K:
https://youtu.be/X23akP4RtgI

Yep, we got another MN.9 going here! :eyesrollingsohardicanseemybrain

I was not aware of this, thank you.

Yeah the game is looking fine, it's got plenty of time left to cook.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Sorry but that's bs.



That's Muramasa emulated in 1080p.
Those assets are almost good enough for that already and i'm pretty sure they are already compressed and reduced for the Wii version. They do them in better quality for sure.

But about Bloodstained this is really not a matter of tech or 2D or 3D. They just have a really messy art direction...

You are still looking at assets inflated to several times their native resolution. There is a lot of missing detail there that is masked by the painting like art style.

Compare that to someone with 1080p spirtes and you see the difference.

2.5 D was chosen because of what it allowed them to do in terms of assets for the money and utility.

 

[Z..]

Still super hyped if the gameplay delivers (still enjoyed Rondo remake for PSP, so) , but the game is looking horrible, visually. Eww.
=(
Ewwwwwww.

 

[Skilletor]

Sorry but that's bs.



That's Muramasa emulated in 1080p.
Those assets are almost good enough for that already and i'm pretty sure they are already compressed and reduced for the Wii version. They do them in better quality for sure.

But about Bloodstained this is really not a matter of tech or 2D or 3D. They just have a really messy art direction...

I liked that part in Muramasa when I ran past the same screen like 5-6 times in a row to another "area" that was just the same screen 5-6 times in a row, because art at that fidelity can't be cheap or easy and you have to cut corners somewhere.

 

[Shredderi]

We'll find out if I'm a dev when our game hits PS4 and PC - until then I do my best

Alright, good luck

 

[Shredderi]

I liked that part in Muramasa when I ran past the same screen like 5-6 times in a row to another "area" that was just the same screen 5-6 times in a row, because art at that fidelity can't be cheap or easy and you have to cut corners somewhere.

True, but I was hoping the big kickstarter budget + publisher backing would help with things like that

 

[ScrapBrain]

The environment looks amazing but the character model and animations lack a certain something. movement just doesn't look exciting, it looks flat and bland. Perhaps that's just because there isn't anything going on other than movement...

 

[7threst]

Character looks like she has a constant back ache or something. Everything else I love!

 

[JediLink]

The graphics still look off, but I'm not really worried. I have faith the game itself will be great.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Why don't enthusiast gamers who follow the industry so closely get that sometimes things are just a test area or quickly done up skinner box for asset ideas with these kickstarters? Even games media and personalities are like this. It'd be like a movie buff saw a behind-the-scenes feature, on the set production, pre-FX and just thinks this is the movie and "looks like shit"

 

[Dolobill]

I don't understand how a game from someone like IGA or Inafune cannot afford to invest in detailed spritework when indie games from far lesser known devs continue to pump out some really amazing stuff. I'm currently playing Slain and the spritework in that game in incredible.

 

[Skilletor]

True, but I was hoping the big kickstarter budget + publisher backing would help with things like that

I think some elements we've shown have looked great. This looked only okay to me.

But a lot can happen in 1 1/2 years. I think it'll all come together. Even if it doesn't, the game looks "good" to me, and I could stand it looking exactly like this come release date if the gameplay, content, multiple characters, retro- 8 level castlevania, and all the other stuff that's coming is quality.

I don't understand how a game from someone like IGA or Inafune cannot afford to invest in detailed spritework when indie games from far lesser known devs continue to pump out some really amazing stuff. I'm currently playing Slain and the spritework in that game in incredible.

How long are those games? How big? How many characters? How many different weapons/moves/spells do they have? How many different types of enemies? How long did it take those indie developers to make the game?

Inafune wanted this game to be made with the help of a publisher. What are the odds that a publisher would be willing to back a game this large that would be sprite based?

I also think people forget just how much spirte work was already done for Iga going all the way back to SotN, which used tons of stuff from Rondo.

 

[Toxi]

I like the look and am surprised people don't. Nowhere near as ugly as Mn9, that's for sure.

Biggest thing that stood out to me was how the roof platforms weren't consistent in how high the floor was on them. In a game with platforming, that's kinda an issue.

 

[The Technomancer]

Why don't enthusiast gamers who follow the industry so closely get that sometimes things are just a test area or quickly done up skinner box for asset ideas with these kickstarters? Even games media and personalities are like this. It'd be like a movie buff saw a behind-the-scenes feature, on the set production, pre-FX and just thinks this is the movie and "looks like shit"

I only care because MN9 had massive lighting issues and I think they're using the same framework. Otherwise I do really like how this looks

 

[ShadowgeistX]

I understand the aversion to MN9 posts, but what about some people not digging the animation or small camera adjustments qualifies as "jackassery"? Animation and camera movement are important and dramatically alter perception of the visual feedback loop while playing a game as "feel".

As someome who still, a year in, tweaks our overall feedback loop for "feel" - Bloodstained looks like it just got the character controller and camera implementation working with this video and now they move on to the months-long process of tweaking.

We can see from the video there will be jumps, platforming, pitfalls, etc - the fluidity and EXPRESSION (line of action) of those movements is dictated by animation, camera and general gamey-physics - if they are to feel good, they need to look good. You need to marry how it looks with how it plays and visual stimuli is the forefront of that equation.

Doesn't work for me in this video. That's not "jackassery" - that's observation. We are 19 years past SotN. Here's hoping the visual feedback loop gets updated to fit with the much better conventions established through the years thanks to a strong foundation built decades ago.

I was mostly referring to the MN9 2.0 comments, yes.

But speaking for myself, I backed it expecting an SotN style game and what's shown so far pretty much hits the mark. If they tweak all the visual feedback loops that you're looking for then that's bonus. Hell I'd love it if they did too. But my expectations are tempered and my priorities lie with getting an interesting map to explore with maybe a half-decent story attached to it (among some other things of course). Anything past that is just the cherry on top really.

 

[Crankshaft]

Is this still coming 2017 or has it been pushed back? Game looks pretty far from being done

 

[origamipirate]

Is this still coming 2017 or has it been pushed back? Game looks pretty far from being done

It's targeted as a 2018 release now, as of this past September. Given how good the E3 demo felt to play as a huge fan of the Igavanias, I have zero worries about it.

 

[orochi91]

Muramasa: The Demon Blade
Not only pretty to look at, but also fun gameplay.

Muramasa. Looks liek the vita version screenshot.

Doing that level of spritework in 1080p+ woudl be very, very expensive and time consuming. The game as it stands was designed for 640x480 or 540p on the vita.

Cheers, thank you for answering.

My friend has a Vita, so I'll try borrowing it from her to play this game; it looks stellar.

 

[Tidalwave]

Backround looks excellent. Character model still looks bad. Didn't enjoy my experience playing it either so I hope it doesn't stay as...stiff?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

From those 2d pixel masterpieces to this... argh

yeeeahhhh I'm feeling the same way. I'm starting to regret how much money I put into backing this.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think the lighting is throwing me off. I know it's a dark scene but everything is flat. She casts no shadow when she jumps on the roof. And the roof collapsing just looks bad.

 

[BlueBomberX]

From those 2d pixel masterpieces to this... argh

It's not great looking, but it's serviceable. What's going to make this game is the game itself, not the visuals. So try not to get too hooked on them.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

I don't understand how a game from someone like IGA or Inafune cannot afford to invest in detailed spritework when indie games from far lesser known devs continue to pump out some really amazing stuff. I'm currently playing Slain and the spritework in that game in incredible.

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Inafune and IGA are running companies and are paying salaries that are fitting for veteran creators with 20+ years of experience.

A lot of the indie developers working in 2D are usually working with an incredibly low overhead and are probably just barely able to pay themselves a decent wage with other work being out-sourced only when necessary.

It's just not a comparable situation. The only reason Japanese companies were able to be so prolific in 2D in previous generations is because they were basically treating their employees like indentured servants and that doesn't really fly nowadays.

 

[ScientificPizza]

the art look fine tbh

also the level design in that village video is already infinitely better than mighty no 9

 

[PapaEmeritus]

Comments like this make me wonder if people have played the igavanias recently.

I'm playing SoTN right now on Xbox One and I've played all the GBA ones, I know there's a "float" to them, this just looks more extreme version of that. Like I said I haven't played this, could be the video, but I still stand by what it appears to me in that it looks slightly "off"

 

[jabuseika]

Hottest garbage.

 

[yurinka]

Looks very good considering it's under development.

 

[FireBeaver]

Please don't be bad, please don't be bad. I don't think I can handle another Kickstarter disappointment like Mighty No 9 again.

 

[EDarkness]

I think the background style clashes with the character style. I hope they find a way to better marry the two together.

 

[Zackat]

Comparing this to MN9 is a farce. It looks way better.

 

[BiggNife]

I really don't think this looks ugly? It's miles upon miles better than Mighty No 9. It feels like some people have just decided that this game will be bad because MN9 was bad, but I have far more faith in IGA as a designer than Inafune.

 

[bethore]

Early animations aside, I don't like the way the game looks. Maybe it's because the game is still in development I really don't like how the characters cell shaded models art clash with environments.

 

[duckroll]

Reminds me of all the 2.5D games on XBLA and PSN last gen. Shadow Complex, Bionic Commando Rearmed, etc.

 

[Adam_Vania]

Reminds me of all the 2.5D games on XBLA and PSN last gen. Shadow Complex, Bionic Commando Rearmed, etc.

this fine w me. those games look nice. this game does not need to revolutionize graphics, i would rather them put the effort into making it play fun & level design.

 

[Jacksinthe]

This shouldn't be hard to understand. Inafune and IGA are running companies and are paying salaries that are fitting for veteran creators with 20+ years of experience.

A lot of the indie developers working in 2D are usually working with an incredibly low overhead and are probably just barely able to pay themselves a decent wage with other work being out-sourced only when necessary.

It's just not a comparable situation. The only reason Japanese companies were able to be so prolific in 2D in previous generations is because they were basically treating their employees like indentured servants and that doesn't really fly nowadays.

I had written a partial post earlier but decided not to post it because it felt a tiny bit OT but I'll give the short-short version here.

I know a 1-man studio doing insane work who's only source of income for the past few years was but a fraction of this KS campaign. If he had half this budget he would be able to push this way past what we are seeing here.

The problem is exactly as you've outlined it - too many old cogs in the machine paying out veteran status when they should be searching and using talent that can push the budget and production values through the roof.

It's the number one reason I refuse to back "HOLY SHIT THIS OLD DEV IS BACK AND KICKSTARTING THIS CONCEPT ART INTO A GAME!!!1! !" crowdfunding campaigns. Nobody should back a campaign with a few snippets of art, no proof of concept using a vertical slice and by name only. They are always gambles even with the most amazing campaigns but the oldies are always the ones that waste the most money based on self-service and friend-service. That's not how things have to get done these days.

 

[Cheat Code]

This looks a bit shit to be honest.

I know it's early, but this is already smelling of Mighty No. 9.

 

[Peroroncino]

Guys, if you want a really good metroidvania that's already out, and with a deep combat system to boot [finishers, counters, parrying, you can even parry arrows], I can't recommend this enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_054dUJzCE

And here's a little clip of parrying arrows and coloring environment with enemy's blood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y7vebkAeEI

 

[dragonzdogma]

Any good looking 2.5 D games out there you guys could reminded me of?

I honestly can't think of any right now.....

EDIT: but everything is made of polygons -

to answer my own question...

 

[duckroll]

Any good looking 2.5 D games out there you guys could reminded me of?

I honestly can't think of any right now.....

EDIT: but everything is made of polygons -

Mark of the Ninja?

 

[Conkerkid11]

Any good looking 2.5 D games out there you guys could reminded me of?

I honestly can't think of any right now.....

EDIT: but everything is made of polygons -

Inside, Strider, Shadow Complex, Trials series, the two most recent Donkey Kong games, most modern Nintendo platformers, Most modern fighting games.

Mark of the Ninja?

2D?

 

[dragonzdogma]

Mark of the Ninja?

Never played or heard of this game,
but man that's some good looking 2d cell shading right there-
is almost as good as the new guilty gear.

Inside, Strider, Shadow Complex, Trials series, Most modern fighting games.


2D?

Wow- those 2 look great.

 

[Secret Fawful]

This looks gorgeous. People actually think this looks like Mighty No. 9? HOW?

 

[Foffy]

I'm sure the location will a bit interesting with enemies in it. I mean, villages have never been too interesting in Castlevania games...

What are people expecting here?

 

[Davey Cakes]

I think it would help a lot if they added some dynamic elements to the background, it is so static and lifeless right now. They may be planning to do that, it's too early to know.

This and the "studio lot" comment are where I'm at, currently.

I think the game looks PROMISING but it's clearly not all there. It needs more bells and whistles, but with plenty of development time left I'm certain the team will produce something worthwhile.

 

[dragonzdogma]

Hey - the demo looks quite nice compared to the latest footage no?

 

[Conkerkid11]

I'm sure the location will a bit interesting with enemies in it. I mean, villages have never been too interesting in Castlevania games...

What are people expecting here?

It just doesn't look all that appealing to me. I dunno what it is exactly. I think the lighting's too bright, the character looks really out of place, there's not much foreground detail... Like, I feel there should be more objects or something on the layer the player's on.

Now that I'm glancing through all the other developer updates, maybe the biggest things for me are just the weird lighting and the fact that all the environments look realistic, whereas the player is some weird anime character thing. They don't make sense together, and it looks like what you get when an amateur indie dev pulls together a bunch of free assets off the Unity store or something.