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[Vox-Pop]

The Euro is hear to stay, it is too much of a hassle to revert back.

 

[cvxfreak]

While we are at it, why not every single city in the world?

Hong Kong, Macau, and Shenzhen, China. :lol

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm not arguing against oversight or more transparency.

But I'm not sure how you're going to regulate speculating. that too has always existed.

You're line of thought is dangerous insofar as it allows countries like Greece to pawn off total responsibility to the big US banks and 'speculators', when the anatomy of the crisis seems straightforward enough. And in hindsight, it appears the EU's own manifest destiny has had a hand to play in this, over German objections no less.

Whoa there.

 

[Deku]

Whoa there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/business/global/05iht-greece.html

 

[Funky Papa]

I see the comparisons, but EU and manifest destiny are two different beasts.

 

[Deku]

I see the comparisons, but EU and manifest destiny are two different beasts.

And that is all there is to see. If you understand the point, then awesome!

There's no reason to start a discussion over what your interpretation of the phrase is.

 

[Funky Papa]

Eh, I just feel a bit touchy about certain US-based gaffers thinking that the EU is some kind of proto-empire in the vein of the old European superpowers, willing to swallow any nation dumb enough to stand on its way.

 

[Deku]

Eh, I just feel a bit touchy about certain US-based gaffers thinking that the EU is some kind of proto-empire in the vein of the old European superpowers, willing to swallow any nation dumb enough to stand on its way.

EU is an empire. so is the US, but i'm not going there. It's really a matter of interpretation.

But I'm in the 'empire' camp of world history that argues empires pervades history and is not going away nor has it gone away. And I view empire as a neutral word. Sadly most of GAF weened on Star Wars and Reagan thinks Darth Vader or Stalin-like figure has to be behind empires for it be an empire.

Either way, it has nothing to do with my choice of words. The use of the phrase 'EU's manifest destin'y is just the fact that certain individuals and drivers in Europe feel Europe needs to be of a certain size and scope.

 

[Alx]

EU is an empire. so is the US, but i'm not going there. It's really a matter of interpretation.

There cannot be an empire without an emperor. For the moment EU is just a private club of countries trying to build "a special relationship". But it's having the greatest difficulties to build anything closer to a coherent power with unique political, economic and defense lines.

 

[Deku]

There cannot be an empire without an emperor. For the moment EU is just a private club of countries trying to build "a special relationship". But it's having the greatest difficulties to build anything closer to a coherent power with unique political, economic and defense lines.

That's how most people see it. But Empires as entities are far more flexible than the need for central authoritarian control.

I'll save it for another thread.

 

[Sickboy007]

Always a pleasure to read avaya.

 

[Souldriver]

ITS ALL OVER PEOPLE, WE DONT HAVE A PRAYER!!! AAAAH!!!!

Spoiler

lol

 

[WrikaWrek]

This is just all part of the speculative attacks that are going on against the E.U.

It's a shame to see people add more fuel. Economic terrorism ftl

 

[avaya]

I'm not arguing against oversight or more transparency.

But I'm not sure how you're going to regulate speculating. that too has always existed.

You're line of thought is dangerous insofar as it allows countries like Greece to pawn off total responsibility to the big US banks and 'speculators', when the anatomy of the crisis seems straightforward enough. And in hindsight, it appears the EU's own manifest destiny has had a hand to play in this, over German objections no less.

You still misunderstand me, I'm not saying anything about allowing states to evade responsibility.

I am talking about the fundamental rules of the game.

Synthetic shorts allow speculators to take up massive positions without the need to put up any capital or very little at all. This needs to be stopped because it allows them to easily overwhelm any measures used to provide stability.This is a new development. It has never existed before (i.e. a matured OTC market with enough players/market-makers to provide some semblance of liquidity, even if they are taking principal positions).

Regulating these instruments is a matter of absolute priority.

The unregulated OTC market, which bought you the 2007-2009 liquidity crunch fuelled economic collapse is now working itself up the ladder through sovereign debt.

That is before we delve into the world of HFT systems which dominate nearly all major exchanges and make a mockery of the idea of fair capital markets.

The CEO of Goldman Sachs spelt it out. No one is listening. Just like they didn't listen to John Paulson's solution to stop capital erosion of the banks post-Lehman till the UK Treasury decided to buck the trend and do it.

The Greece issue is very real however there is very little basis to start questioning the creditworthiness of France, Germany and the UK with the US and Japan very close behind.

 

[Byakuya769]

I'm not arguing against oversight or more transparency.

But I'm not sure how you're going to regulate speculating. that too has always existed.

You're line of thought is dangerous insofar as it allows countries like Greece to pawn off total responsibility to the big US banks and 'speculators', when the anatomy of the crisis seems straightforward enough. And in hindsight, it appears the EU's own manifest destiny has had a hand to play in this, over German objections no less.

Speculation is fine. Naked speculation with derivatives on derivatives starts to get a little dodgy.

 

[jamesinclair]

EVERY year since 1995 (yes, before the euro was a paper currency) there have been news articles about a euro breakup.

EVERY year.


I wonder if the same people who make these reports are the same folks who predict the dow going to 6,000 (every year) and oil reaching $200 (last summer).

 

[KilledByBill]

I don't think the Euro zone is going to break apart, the article in the OP itself says that for countries to be ejected from the monetary union it must have the unanimous support of all members. Germany would basically have to say "screw it" and unilaterally start reprinting the Mark. The shocking thing to me is that even Germany has had budgets that routinely violate the Euro treaty and yet now they're looking for an enforcement mechanism where none has ever existed.

But as the world continues to grapple with the economic downturn it looks like the Euro is going to be in for a continued bumpy ride and some further devaluation. As easy as it is to try to blame the current situation on international currency speculation/manipulation (which is part of the problem now that there's "blood in the water") or some kind of American conspiracy to weaken Europe (from what I understand conventional wisdom here actually favors a "weak dollar" policy to prevent the U.S. trade deficit from growing too large) this crisis has revealed structural problems that need to be solved.

How do you maintain a currency union when there are such wide disparities between GDP and fiscal policies of the member nations? Can you create a European Treasury or entity that sets a common fiscal policy in all of the member states, without essentially stripping the sovereignty of the member states away and creating a new nation-state? Since the EU is essentially an ongoing experiment its tough to find the answers in history.

 

[Ripclawe]

Meh, in the end all I want is a 1 to 1 value with the dollar

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aqquuYOAN_sE

The ECB said it will intervene in government and private bond markets “to ensure depth and liquidity in those market segments which are dysfunctional,” and central banks in Germany, Italy and France began buying government bonds yesterday. The ECB restarted a dollar-swap line with the Federal Reserve.

By resorting to what some economists have called the “nuclear option,” the ECB may open itself to the charge it’s undermining its independence by helping governments plug budget holes.

“The ECB’s supposed ‘independence’ has now been shown to be nothing more than a sham, a chimera, a will-o’-the-wisp,” Dennis Gartman, a Suffolk, Virginia-based economist and hedge- fund manager, said in his daily Gartman Letter on May 10. “In the end the ECB and the euro will be punished for this decision to stand down from what had previously been considered sacred.”

“The euro is doomed,” said Andrew Wilkinson, senior market analyst at Interactive Brokers Group LLC in Greenwich, Connecticut. “It’s like a clown without its makeup. The strains among the partners are becoming clear and it’s becoming harder to see global growth not being threatened by this.”

‘Head Through Parity’

The euro has lost 9 percent this year, according to Bloomberg Correlation-Weighted Indices. The dollar has gained 7.2 percent and the yen has advanced 7.9 percent.

The euro “can easily head through parity” with the U.S. dollar under a “hard landing” recovery scenario from the European deficit crisis, according to Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc.