joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
I've noticed Avalon Hill tends to cheap out on their components. It's really a Shane they don't give the same attention to their games that Fantasy Flight does.
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I have to agree with Dominion.
Ignore the recommended starting deck of cards. The lack of interaction makes the game a bit more straightforward, but it is such a simple game anyway that it really didn't need that suggested deck.
The game is completely brilliant though. I just got done with my game nights we had a really good time. Dominion, Pandemic and Ticket to Ride were the biggest hits. I had 9 people come over so we got two games going at a time. I left one table on Dominion all night simply because the rules were simple enough that no one ever needed to stop the game to ask me questions.
The other table mostly played ticket to ride, but got in some Pandemic and Settlers of Catan.
I got everyone excited for the next batch of games I have coming in on Tuesday, so I may have another game night soonish. Plus, I'm going to make my Lost watch party play something with me after the show since they all come in the same day
Ignore the recommended starting deck of cards. The lack of interaction makes the game a bit more straightforward, but it is such a simple game anyway that it really didn't need that suggested deck.
The game is completely brilliant though. I just got done with my game nights we had a really good time. Dominion, Pandemic and Ticket to Ride were the biggest hits. I had 9 people come over so we got two games going at a time. I left one table on Dominion all night simply because the rules were simple enough that no one ever needed to stop the game to ask me questions.
The other table mostly played ticket to ride, but got in some Pandemic and Settlers of Catan.
I got everyone excited for the next batch of games I have coming in on Tuesday, so I may have another game night soonish. Plus, I'm going to make my Lost watch party play something with me after the show since they all come in the same day
Neverfade said:
I have either played or tried to play 4 of their games. I think obtuse, 40 page long rule books are their M.O.
I actually watched a video for Game of Thrones on the interwebs and it isn't even all that hard of a game, but their rulebook makes it look that way.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
FFG's older rulebooks all tend to suffer from this. Luckily, there's plenty of player aids on BGG that help makes things straightforward.Neverfade said:
Neverfade said:The only two rulebooks from FFG that have ever given me probs are this and War of the Ring. I'd be glad to answer any questions for anything else!
And yeah, Game of Thrones is probably one of their simplest 'big' games.
Well, I tried to play the World of Warcraft boardgame. It wasn't so much that it was confusing as there was just too much shit going on. Made it nearly impossible to keep track of what the hell was going on. I did a decent job with my character, but the other players basically through their hands up 30 minutes into the game.
Probably doesn't help that the game has 20-30 minutes of downtime between turns. I liked the idea of the team gameplay.. it was just much more game than my friends were prepared for. It was a very poor choice of game to try early on and its taken a solid 6 months of lighter fare to get my friends back on board. At least 3 are never coming back again I'm pretty sure though :lol
StoOgE said:
Yeah, as much WOW as I've played in my life, that's one of their titles I've never had interest in.
XiaNaphryz said:
Universal Head has one that's PERFECT, with the exception of one huge glaring flaw: it doesn't have any of the Brood Wars rules on it. It would end up confusing other players moreso than helping.
Neverfade said:
You basically grind for 2.5 hours and then go after one of the overlords. Really, it's pretty much turned the crux of wow into a board game :lol
The only problems is you have to have a group that thinks together and will work together.. most of my friends just wanted to go off and do their own thing and kept dying. You only have so many turns before the game forces end game, so you really can't afford to die.
The real problem is the game has you rolling upwards of 12 die at the end of the game with special abilities allowing you to cash in mana points to move certain die to different numbers. I don't think it is all that complicated, but there is a lot of downtime, a lot of die being used, a ton of math to keep up with and a shitload of chits on the board.
I could see it being fun with the right group.. but it is really overwhelming.
BattleMonkey
Member
FFG games are not complicated, it's simply it's hard to remember so many pages of rules. We will play a game, and a few months later if we try to play it again, most everyone completely forgot the rules and someone needs to read the book and explain again. Happens with alot of FFG's games.
Question about Carcassonne farm scoring:
I'm aware that the rules for scoring farms has changed, over the years. And for a while the English Rio Grande Games version was printing different farm rules than the "official" German version.
When I picked up the game my playing partner and I just played by the rules in our English rulebook, to keep things simple.
But here is where things get hairy -
we bought Traders and Builders, and the farm scoring rules in the rulebook contradict the farm scoring rules in the base game
Keep in mind this is the same manufacturer... same company, etc.
The ruleset for the base game, and the rules we've been playing under, state that every completed city a farm touches earns 3 points, at the end of the game. Traders and Builders states that if you have your Pig meeple on a farm, completed cities earn "5 points, instead of 4." The T&B ruleset also goes out of its way to state that 2-tile cities are scored the same as bigger cities - no penalty for it being small.
It's basically just the "instead of 4" throwing me for a loop. Because based on the official rules that have come in our sets, it was NEVER 4. Maybe it's a typo and they mean "5 points instead of 3" ?
Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Using Google for help was a mistake. It led to all kinds of shit about the 3+ ways farm scoring has been changed in the US and germany over the years :lol
I'm aware that the rules for scoring farms has changed, over the years. And for a while the English Rio Grande Games version was printing different farm rules than the "official" German version.
When I picked up the game my playing partner and I just played by the rules in our English rulebook, to keep things simple.
But here is where things get hairy -
we bought Traders and Builders, and the farm scoring rules in the rulebook contradict the farm scoring rules in the base game
Keep in mind this is the same manufacturer... same company, etc.The ruleset for the base game, and the rules we've been playing under, state that every completed city a farm touches earns 3 points, at the end of the game. Traders and Builders states that if you have your Pig meeple on a farm, completed cities earn "5 points, instead of 4." The T&B ruleset also goes out of its way to state that 2-tile cities are scored the same as bigger cities - no penalty for it being small.
It's basically just the "instead of 4" throwing me for a loop. Because based on the official rules that have come in our sets, it was NEVER 4. Maybe it's a typo and they mean "5 points instead of 3" ?
Anyway, any advice is appreciated. Using Google for help was a mistake. It led to all kinds of shit about the 3+ ways farm scoring has been changed in the US and germany over the years :lol
I found the PDF online, and here are the contradtictory statements:
BASE GAME:
For each city a farm supplies, the player who deployed the most farmer(s) in the farm earns 3 points, regardless of the size of the city. If players tie with the most farmers, each scores 3 points.
TRADERS & BUILDERS:
The pig remains where placed until the end of the game. When scoring the farmers at the end of the game, the player earns 5 instead of 4 points for each city he scores that has a pig in the field with his farmer(s).
BASE GAME:
For each city a farm supplies, the player who deployed the most farmer(s) in the farm earns 3 points, regardless of the size of the city. If players tie with the most farmers, each scores 3 points.
TRADERS & BUILDERS:
The pig remains where placed until the end of the game. When scoring the farmers at the end of the game, the player earns 5 instead of 4 points for each city he scores that has a pig in the field with his farmer(s).
GDJustin said:
It was 4 points originally with Rio Grande's printing of the game.
Then they switched it to 3 points which had been the German rules for a while.
My guess is your expansion was printed prior to the rule change to 3 points.
3 points - no piggies
4 points - scoring players pig, no pig herd or pig herd, no scoring player pig
5 points - scoring players pig, pig herd
I'm not sure I understand your examples. Based on the rulebook, it sounds like placing a pig just makes the supplied cities worth +1 what they would be worth without the pig? What do you mean by "pig herd" ?? I'm looking at the PDFs online at RGG's website, and these rule contradictions are present there, too...
Edit: A later expansion, Abbey and Mayor, says this, insides the section describing barn scoring. This directly contradicts what T&B itself says:
Edit: A later expansion, Abbey and Mayor, says this, insides the section describing barn scoring. This directly contradicts what T&B itself says:
The River II expansion adds a piece called the pig herd that is worth +1 as well. They are actually on one of the tiles.
If you are just playing with pigs, they are worth +1 (4 points)
The only way to get the bordering cities to be worth 5 is to be playing with both expansions.
If you are just playing with pigs, they are worth +1 (4 points)
The only way to get the bordering cities to be worth 5 is to be playing with both expansions.
OK, I understand. FYI, here are the contradicting PDFs:
Base game:
http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_48_gameRules.pdf
Traders & Builders:
http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_59_gameRules.pdf
Maybe they just don't update their PDFs often, but the contradiction is right there, in both docs.
I was wrong about Abbey and Mayor, though. It does not contradict. What I thought was a further error was the rules giving an example of Barn scoring (which is different).
Base game:
http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_48_gameRules.pdf
Traders & Builders:
http://www.riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_59_gameRules.pdf
Maybe they just don't update their PDFs often, but the contradiction is right there, in both docs.
I was wrong about Abbey and Mayor, though. It does not contradict. What I thought was a further error was the rules giving an example of Barn scoring (which is different).
Most likely they updated the original games PDF, but didn't update the expansions PDF.
The scoring history of the game is pretty convoluted at this point and there are a shitload of expansions just waiting for contradictions to occur with :lol. Just treat the piggies as +1 and you'll be good.
Also, buy the River II expansion, it's like 4 dollars. Assuming your version of Carcassonne came with the River I, you can combine them into a giant river with a fork that I've found really makes the start more interesting.
The scoring history of the game is pretty convoluted at this point and there are a shitload of expansions just waiting for contradictions to occur with :lol. Just treat the piggies as +1 and you'll be good.
Also, buy the River II expansion, it's like 4 dollars. Assuming your version of Carcassonne came with the River I, you can combine them into a giant river with a fork that I've found really makes the start more interesting.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Played Last Night on Earth, The Adventurers, and Battlestar Galactica last night with my cousins. LNoE was a hit as usual. We played the Defend the Manor scenario and the zombie players were down to one last human and we lost. I'm thinking about picking up the Growing Hnger expansion as well as Survival of the Fittest. Any other essential expansions for the game?
As expected The Adventurers plays a whole lot better with more players. The thing about the game is that it is nothing more than an lavish filler game. It almost feels like there should be more to the game and there isn't. It's really a shame because I absolutely love the production value and the idea of running through an Indiana Jones type game gets me excited.
Finally we played a nice five person game of Battlestar. It's been entirely too long since I played and it was a welcome return. I played with people who have never seen the show before and they enjoyed themselves. In fact my cousin said he was going to rent the DVDs and watch the series. Another convert has been made.
As expected The Adventurers plays a whole lot better with more players. The thing about the game is that it is nothing more than an lavish filler game. It almost feels like there should be more to the game and there isn't. It's really a shame because I absolutely love the production value and the idea of running through an Indiana Jones type game gets me excited.
Finally we played a nice five person game of Battlestar. It's been entirely too long since I played and it was a welcome return. I played with people who have never seen the show before and they enjoyed themselves. In fact my cousin said he was going to rent the DVDs and watch the series. Another convert has been made.
BomberMouse
Member
BomberMouse said:
I'm gonna update on this. After some research, I picked up a copy of Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers I found on a local store. The scoring system is simpler and has lots of animals which my sisters love.
Bought it on friday and played a couple of rounds with my wife and she loved it (her first boardgame). As you might have heard there was a huge earthquake and tsunami on Chile that very same night (thanks god everyone on my family is fine, though my building is really f*up). Electricity went off for the most part of the weekend so when I went to see my family today I played a couple of rounds with my sister and they loved it. They really liked the meeples. It was a great way to pass up time and keep their minds away from everything that was happening.
So two thumbs up for Carcassonne: H&G I might try the vanilla version later due to all the expansions though I don't like the endgame scoring system.
A lot of people play Carcassonne without farmers to keep the scoring easier.
I've played it both ways and think it works better with casual friends. Most of them have a hard enough time figuring out how to score on the things that take very little planning.. the fields seem to be too much so they never even play farmers which leaves me racking up crazy points at game end because I get all the farms.
I've played it both ways and think it works better with casual friends. Most of them have a hard enough time figuring out how to score on the things that take very little planning.. the fields seem to be too much so they never even play farmers which leaves me racking up crazy points at game end because I get all the farms.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
My big shipment of games came in last friday. Unfortunately everyone had already gone home/was about to go home for spring break so I didn't get to play anything except Dominion, I do really like Dominion though.
Gonna have to wait till the weekend to play Brass or Chaos in the Old World (<--- which I am really really excited to play).
Gonna have to wait till the weekend to play Brass or Chaos in the Old World (<--- which I am really really excited to play).
Let me know what you think about Brass.
I was looking into it for my next order which is still a few weeks out at the earliest.
I own too many resource management games, but it does look like fun.
Most of my next order looks to be expansions at this point, but I hate to not get a new game with the next batch.
I was looking into it for my next order which is still a few weeks out at the earliest.
I own too many resource management games, but it does look like fun.
Most of my next order looks to be expansions at this point, but I hate to not get a new game with the next batch.
Got my games in today from Cool Stuff Inc. Took less than a week to get them with free shipping.. pretty happy!
Memoir 44 looks great. I've played it once before and I love the packaging and bits. Everything is really top notch there. Probably break this out after Lost tonight with a friend.
Twilight Struggle has some of the ugliest packaging I've ever seen, but the actual innards are really good. This will probably be the last of these games that I play because I want to do a dry run first.
RoboRally - this is going to be the star of my next game night.. and it looks like fun via some youtube vids and comments here, but JESUS these parts are crap. The little robots are good, but everything else just screams cheap cheap cheap cheap. The chits were impossible to get out without ripping and they have dimples on the sides, the player boards nearly ripped when taking them off of the backing they came in. The little plastic flags are kind of cool neon in a very 1992 sort of way, but making them transparent makes the 3 look like an 8 since it's on both sides of the flag.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to playing, but I'm really glad I only payed 35 bucks for this game. Had I dropped the 55 my local game story is asking I would have been pissed. I think this might be my first Avalon Hill game, pretty disappointed with it.
Ticket to Ride 1910 expansion - cards! Full size this time so I can shuffle them! Looking forward to playing with the better deck which y'all recommended. The internet tells me this will cause longer routes and less people getting lucky and getting a bunch of overlapping routes. Should make for a more balanced game even if none of my friends notice :lol
The Mystery Train cards were a nice free addition, but after looking at them and reading the rules they seem like throwaway cards more likely to break the game than anything else. According to BGG they were a free set of cards in a magazine a few years ago, so I guess that explains that. The 1910 cities and "Big Cities" versions are the ones I'm most likely to play. The "Big Game" version where you throw the entire deck at the players just seems like overkill that brings back all of the balance issues people brought up with the original game.
Days of Wonder seems to have the highest quality components from what I've seen (cheap little cards in the standard Ticket to Ride withstanding).
Memoir 44 looks great. I've played it once before and I love the packaging and bits. Everything is really top notch there. Probably break this out after Lost tonight with a friend.
Twilight Struggle has some of the ugliest packaging I've ever seen, but the actual innards are really good. This will probably be the last of these games that I play because I want to do a dry run first.
RoboRally - this is going to be the star of my next game night.. and it looks like fun via some youtube vids and comments here, but JESUS these parts are crap. The little robots are good, but everything else just screams cheap cheap cheap cheap. The chits were impossible to get out without ripping and they have dimples on the sides, the player boards nearly ripped when taking them off of the backing they came in. The little plastic flags are kind of cool neon in a very 1992 sort of way, but making them transparent makes the 3 look like an 8 since it's on both sides of the flag.
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to playing, but I'm really glad I only payed 35 bucks for this game. Had I dropped the 55 my local game story is asking I would have been pissed. I think this might be my first Avalon Hill game, pretty disappointed with it.
Ticket to Ride 1910 expansion - cards! Full size this time so I can shuffle them! Looking forward to playing with the better deck which y'all recommended. The internet tells me this will cause longer routes and less people getting lucky and getting a bunch of overlapping routes. Should make for a more balanced game even if none of my friends notice :lol
The Mystery Train cards were a nice free addition, but after looking at them and reading the rules they seem like throwaway cards more likely to break the game than anything else. According to BGG they were a free set of cards in a magazine a few years ago, so I guess that explains that. The 1910 cities and "Big Cities" versions are the ones I'm most likely to play. The "Big Game" version where you throw the entire deck at the players just seems like overkill that brings back all of the balance issues people brought up with the original game.
Days of Wonder seems to have the highest quality components from what I've seen (cheap little cards in the standard Ticket to Ride withstanding).
Hmmm I always play with the Mystery Train cards and have never had any problem with them. Just some additional routes is all.
You think the parts in RR is crap, be careful not to stack anything on the box. It's my most thrashed box of all. Why I mostly use the original printing now, which has better parts in all respects save for the flags.
That's the thing about games though, it's easy to appreciate great components but in the end they don't mean too much. IMO Making of the President has waaaaay better aesthetics than TS, but I play TS much more. I wouldn't say there are too many games where the quality of the aesthetics improves the Fun Factor Score by much outside of the initial wow factor. Stone Age is really the one that springs to mind for that.
You think the parts in RR is crap, be careful not to stack anything on the box. It's my most thrashed box of all. Why I mostly use the original printing now, which has better parts in all respects save for the flags.
That's the thing about games though, it's easy to appreciate great components but in the end they don't mean too much. IMO Making of the President has waaaaay better aesthetics than TS, but I play TS much more. I wouldn't say there are too many games where the quality of the aesthetics improves the Fun Factor Score by much outside of the initial wow factor. Stone Age is really the one that springs to mind for that.
AstroLad said:
Yeah, the box seems a bit flimsy, but it's also one of my larger boxes so it's on the bottom of the stack.
I do agree that at the end of the day components don't really matter very much compared to the fun of the game, but I think a nicer looking board does make the game a bit more fun to play.. and makes the game look more inviting to newer players. But yeah, how fun something is obviously is the most critical factor.. unless the components are so cheap that the thing falls apart.
That said I think games with lots of miniatures look silly in addition to costing more. I was originally turned off of Memoir 44 because it looks like you are playing an organized game of army men. However the game is fun and easier to pick up than C&C:Ancients so I went with Memoir 44. The components are nice, I just think it looks a bit silly.
RE: TTR Mystery Train, some of the routes are SUPER short. Like connecting two cities for 3-4 points. Seems more likely to gum up the workings of other players more than it is going to help the person by scoring the points. I think 1 or 2 of the cards were part of the "Big Cities" game mode as well, so I suppose I'll play with some of those.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I tend to agree with him. FFG comes close.Neverfade said:I will Internet fight you.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Days of Wonder also knows how to make a useful insert. Boom roasted.Neverfade said:I will Internet fight you.
I the FF's components are badass too.
Playing Diplomacy with my brother right now, using the suggested two player rules. SO MUCH FUN and the best part is I love being a pain in the ass and telling him his order failed for some super obvious reason (wrote army instead of fleet, ect :lol ) Pisses him off to no end, but it is also making him better. Its like a huge ass game of cat and mouse and even though we normally only get in 4 turns or so a night, it is going along pretty damn well.
platypotamus
Member
joeyjoejoeshabadoo said:
You're definitely not getting my Twilight Struggle, but man, I should do some trading. I'd give up my Bootleggers too haha.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Heh, yeah like I said a shot in the dark. I was planning on ordering Twilight Struggle tomorrow and thought I'd give it a shot. I'm actually surprised somebody wanted bootleggers. It's really not that great of a game.platypotamus said:
AstroLad said:
Blocking off routes that they might need. Obviously having to work around what other players are doing is part of the game, but it's one thing if two players are working on a cross country route. It's another if someone clogs up a critical route to complete a one or two city connection.
I also have no problem with a player intentionally cockblocking another player if they think they have figured out the route they are trying to complete.... but gumping into blocking it by completing a really short route that is worth jack shit bothers me.
I tend to not like the short piddly routes within the game.
Anyway, talked my friend into playing Memoir 44 with me.
She didn't really like the theme, but seemed to enjoy the game. She did comment that you have less options in this game since you are forced to play the cards you are dealt. I tend to agree that the game does rely a bit more on luck than some of my other games.. but as a quick 2 on 2 game I really like it, and it is very different than the other games I own.
I showed her the gameboard and gave her a brief overview of twilight struggle and she seemed really into that once I figure it out. So maybe after Lost next week.
She didn't really like the theme, but seemed to enjoy the game. She did comment that you have less options in this game since you are forced to play the cards you are dealt. I tend to agree that the game does rely a bit more on luck than some of my other games.. but as a quick 2 on 2 game I really like it, and it is very different than the other games I own.
I showed her the gameboard and gave her a brief overview of twilight struggle and she seemed really into that once I figure it out. So maybe after Lost next week.
I guess that presumes that people will make small little connections all over the map and bounce around fucking things up. Maybe it's because we started with Longest Route and played that way for a long time, but I've never seen that be an effective strategy, and rarely seen it even tried, even with Globetrotter in play. That said, it ain't TTR if you don't get fucked over with a big detour at least twice in a 3p game.
I really don't think they are gamebreakers in any way, and they jibe well with the Globetrotter card. Is that something people on BGG have suggested? If so, I defer to them, as I'm sure they've run the statistical analyses on the 10,000 games they've played online, but I haven't noticed it.
I really don't think they are gamebreakers in any way, and they jibe well with the Globetrotter card. Is that something people on BGG have suggested? If so, I defer to them, as I'm sure they've run the statistical analyses on the 10,000 games they've played online, but I haven't noticed it.
BattleMonkey
Member
Got my Incursion box in today. Productions wise seems nice though the board they use is delicate if you fold it wrong and can easily tear. Have to be very gentle with it. Also annoying is that it comes with tons of cardboard tokens and standees, but they are all hard to punch out and will generally have the paper sides rip when punching out. Gonna have to take a razor blade to all the counters to get them out neatly
Memoir, Battle lore, etc who use the same system are pretty luck based. It's a fast and easy game system though if your wanting anymore more than quick fun 2 player game, then it's not the game for you. It's an enjoyable fun little game and can be expanded on with some of the expansion sets.
If you like Memoir but want something less random and more tactical, then Tide of Iron is a good investment. More expensive game of course, but more meaty and feels more realistic in game play terms, while having the same modularity as Memoir.
StoOgE said:
Memoir, Battle lore, etc who use the same system are pretty luck based. It's a fast and easy game system though if your wanting anymore more than quick fun 2 player game, then it's not the game for you. It's an enjoyable fun little game and can be expanded on with some of the expansion sets.
If you like Memoir but want something less random and more tactical, then Tide of Iron is a good investment. More expensive game of course, but more meaty and feels more realistic in game play terms, while having the same modularity as Memoir.
It's luck based, but your strategy can help mitigate a lot of that luck. It is like Catan in a way where luck is involved but you can take that into account when making moves. i.e. my tank gives me the best chance of taking out that group of infantry. You could ultimately get fucked and not hit on anything, but for the most part if you play the odds you will come out ahead. Not unlike building on 6's and 8's in Catan. You could still get screwed by those not coming up that often, but if you play the sound strategy you will win 9 times out of 10.
It isn't like Uno where you are effectively guessing/hoping things work out for you in the end.
I think we both sort of realized the games that remove luck completely from the formula (or give you complete control over it like Dominion) are the most rewarding because it is all up to your gameplan.. but at long as you can try and compensate or factor in luck I have no issue with it cropping up.
It isn't like Uno where you are effectively guessing/hoping things work out for you in the end.
I think we both sort of realized the games that remove luck completely from the formula (or give you complete control over it like Dominion) are the most rewarding because it is all up to your gameplan.. but at long as you can try and compensate or factor in luck I have no issue with it cropping up.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
To hell with it, I just placed an order for Twilight Struggle. I just couldn't wait to see if somebody would trade me for it on BGG.
platypotamus
Member
If it makes you feel any better, it's totally worth it.
Now come clean about what you added to the order to get to free shipping.
Now come clean about what you added to the order to get to free shipping.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Actually I was good and that's all I ordered. Im not going to lie but I came really close to ordering something else. Really, really close.platypotamus said:
platypotamus
Member
That's impressive will power. I don't care if the game I'm ordering is only 15 bucks, if I'm ordering from CSI, I will throw stuff on until I get to the $100 free shipping.
I'd have bought that other stuff eventually anyway.
I'd have bought that other stuff eventually anyway.
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